ANNOUNCER:
00:00:40
The story will continue in a moment. I get accused on the right all the time of I just want people to have a kumbaya moment. I want people to hold hands and just hug it out. And we're done with that. We're done holding hands and hugging it out. I'm not asking anybody to hold hands and hug it out. I'm not asking for that. I'm trying to get people to stop shooting each other. That's it. And I think what I'm doing and what I'm saying is the best way to do that. Some people will disagree with that, and that's OK. We should have these debates as a society. I'm not always right. I've made mistakes. Other politicians, I think, are making mistakes right now in trying to elevate the temperature. But I'm going to just keep having these conversations. In this moment, what's at stake? Scott, I don't think it's hyperbole to say that the future of our country is at stake, this grand experiment that we embarked on 250 years ago. Can we hold together? And what if our politics cannot find the path to the brighter light? That's the question I always ask when I hear people say that we're at war, I say, OK, and what does that mean? What is next? Who am I supposed to shoot now? [GUNSHOT] What was that? He just got shot!
SCOTT PELLEY:
00:02:08
The shot September 10 was the kind of attack now happening every couple of months or so. In April, the Democratic governor of Pennsylvania and his family escaped after their home was firebombed. In June, in their homes, two Minnesota Democratic lawmakers and their spouses were gunned down. A year earlier on the campaign, it was Donald Trump himself. When told this time it was Utah, Cox didn't believe it, but there it was, on his phone. The video was already out. There was no fog of war. There was no doubt what had happened. That terrible, awful video that I wish I had not seen-- I hate, again, social media, that almost every person in this country, including our young people, have seen that video on a loop over and over and over again. And I can't unsee it. I can't stop seeing it. Every time I close my eyes, that's what I see.
SCOTT PELLEY:
00:03:07
The governor sent an aide to the hospital, who reported that Kirk was dead. Cox dialed a number. As you're calling the White House, what is in your heart? Just sickness, nauseous, disbelief, anger. At this point, I'm very angry. To whoever did this, we will find you. We will try you. And we will hold you accountable to the furthest extent of the law.
SCOTT PELLEY:
00:03:41
His anger was showing. I just want to remind people that we still have the death penalty here in the state of Utah.
SCOTT PELLEY:
00:03:47
But when he searched for meaning, he recalled the suffering of both parties. Our nation is broken. We've had political assassinations recently in Minnesota. We had an attempted assassination on the governor of Pennsylvania. And we had an attempted assassination on a presidential candidate and former president of the United States and now current president of the United States. Nothing I say can unite us as a country. Nothing I can say right now can fix what is broken. We just need every single person in this country to think about where we are and where we want to be. I've been following, I've been studying political violence. And so I'm keenly aware when these things happen. And I'm seeing people get murdered, get attacked who are Democrats and Republicans. And that's where it came from in that moment. In the days after the murder, as you're trying to bring the country together, Steve Bannon, the philosopher of the MAGA right, called you a national embarrassment. Yeah. I love free speech. I would give my life defending his right to say that about me. That's OK. We can have that debate. There are some people that think I am a national embarrassment, and that's OK too. Who do you blame for the division? I do believe that social media is a cancer, and it is taking all of our worst impulses and putting them on steroids. It is driving us to division. It is driving us to hate. These algorithms that have captured our very souls, they've captured our free agency, these dopamine hits that get our young people and our old people addicted to outrage and hate, that serve us up on a regular basis, are absolutely leading us down a very dark path.
SCOTT PELLEY:
00:06:08
A path through platforms that look like civil war, powered by algorithms, programs written to amplify posts of rage. The algorithms are absolutely destroying us. Once they know what your political leanings are, then it's like a pack of wolves that just attack. We have this collective problem that we can't solve because we're all sucked in, and we don't know how to get out.
SCOTT PELLEY:
00:06:38
We met Spencer Cox in the Capitol at the foot of the Wasatch Range in Salt Lake City. He was raised one of eight on a farm of modest means. He's a lawyer, devoutly Mormon, with three years left on his second term. His conservative record includes tax cuts, expansion of gun rights, and restrictions on abortion. You are a Republican but not a Trump Republican. Well, that depends. I did vote for him this last time. But not in '16 or 2020. That is also correct. And he gives me a very hard time about that every time we're together. The tent is broad on the right. And I'm trying to show one way to do politics.
SCOTT PELLEY:
00:07:25
His way to do politics surprised many in 2020. Campaigning for governor, he refused to run negative ads. I think you should vote for me. Yeah, but really, you should vote for me.
SCOTT PELLEY:
00:07:38
Instead, he asked his Democratic opponent to join him on the air. We can disagree without hating each other. And win or lose, in Utah, we work together. So let's show the country that there's a better way. My name is Chris Peterson. And I'm Spencer Cox. And we approve this message.
SCOTT PELLEY:
00:07:55
Cox took the message beyond Utah when, in 2023, he became chair of the Bipartisan National Governors Association. There, he launched a campaign called Disagree Better and went back on the air. I'm Spencer Cox, Republican Governor of Utah. And I'm Jarred Polis, Democratic Governor of Colorado.
SCOTT PELLEY:
00:08:18
23 governors from both parties joined Disagree Better. Healthy disagreement means not assuming that the other side is deluded, misinformed, or actively trying to overthrow America.
SCOTT PELLEY:
00:08:32
This month, Cox took the message to the University of Notre Dame. He's done more than 20 of these events nationwide, often with Democratic governors, including Michelle Lujan Grisham of New Mexico. Does Disagree Better mean that we should drop our differences and everybody meets in the middle? Absolutely not. In fact, it's the exact opposite of that. Abortion is an issue on which we disagree passionately. And yet, even though we have these very strong, it looks like a chasm between us, I think we would both agree that we should be doing more to take care of single moms. I think those are the types of things that we can agree on while still being pretty passionate about whether we think abortion should be legal or not. And when you do that, and we listen and we find that there is some common ground, it reduces, it lowers the temperature, it provides opportunity, not just for discourse, but doing something. Do governors understand something that Washington does not? Yes. Yes, we're completely about results, not about rhetoric. We like to say that potholes aren't partisan, and governors do have to deliver actual results. I think there's a-- sadly, in DC, we've seen this performative politics and much less substance. There are some people watching this interview who are disgusted that you two are sitting together. Well, we need courage over comfort. I don't work for a partisan party. I work for every single New Mexican. Yeah, I see her as an American before I see her as a Democrat or anything else. I think we need more of these conversations. I think we need them in our own homes, in our own neighborhoods, in our school boards, in our city councils, all across the country.
SCOTT PELLEY:
00:10:28
The day Charlie Kirk was murdered, one of the first calls Spencer Cox received was from Democrat Michelle Lujan Grisham. We should be condemning at every chance we get political violence. Our democracy falters when we don't. This is an American. This is a person. This is a person who lost his life in free speech. And there's real grieving for that family. And it doesn't end tomorrow. It will last a lifetime. Says the Democrat. Says the Democrat, because it's true. It's true. Please include that. It was late that afternoon--
SCOTT PELLEY:
00:11:12
We returned with Spencer Cox to Utah Valley University. That flag, that doesn't represent any single group. It doesn't represent one part of our country and not another part of our country.
SCOTT PELLEY:
00:11:26
Students gathered where Charlie Kirk was killed. Cox told the crowd they can't count on politicians. Change, he said, must come from all of you. Thank you. Thanks for leading us out.
PERSON:
00:11:41
Good job, governor! I'm desperately looking for more architects and fewer arsonists. Again, it's so easy to burn down and tear down. And we've got too much of that today. I'm hoping that a positive vision for our country, a positive vision for our party, treating everyone with dignity and respect, that's how we get our country back. Some people watching this interview might be thinking, he should run for president, but the fact is you would never survive Republican primaries. Well, the thought of running for president makes me nauseous. I have no interest in that. I'm glad that there are good people who are willing to do that. But that is not something I've ever been interested in. And you're also correct. The way we select our candidates makes it almost impossible for someone like me to have an opportunity. Is it possible that your message is naive, that the violence will just continue? That's very possible. That's very possible. I think the founders were naive to believe that they could start a new country based on very different principles in virtually any country in the history of the world. I think that it was naive that we could rebuild after a civil war had fractured us and we had killed 600,000 of our fellow Americans. So I believe that naivete with some passion can change the world. It's probably the only thing that ever has.
ANNOUNCER:
00:13:18
Eyewitnesses to murder-- Yours was the last question Charlie Kirk ever heard. Yeah, I don't really know how to grapple with that.
ANNOUNCER:
00:13:26
--at 60minutesovertime.com.
