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WAR, SABATOGE AND FEAR IN THE CYBER AGE ." ABOUT CYBER WARFARE SHAPING A NEW AGE OF GLOBAL POLITICS. DAVID, SO GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE. THIS HAS BEEN AN UNUSUAL ROUND OF DIPLOMACY TO USE THE TERM. EVEN THIS LATEST WRINKLE REVIEWING JARED KUSHNER HAD INITIAL CONTACT WITH SOMEONE IN BUSINESS WHO HELPS MAKE A CONNECTION WITH THE NORTH KOREANS, BUT YOU YOURSELF WERE ON THE GROUND IN SINGAPORE, YOU ASKED THE PRESIDENT FOR SOME DETAILS ON WHAT HE AGREED TO. WERE YOU SATISFIED WITH THE ANSWER? >> WE DIDN'T GET MANY ANSWERS. MARGARET, I COMMEND THE WHOLE MOVE BY THE PRESIDENT TO GO HAVE A DIRECT TALK WITH KIM JONG- UN. WE'VE BEEN TRYING ONE METHOD FOR 35 YEARS NOW TO TRY TO WORK FROM THE BOTTOM UP AND GOT NO WHERE. EVEN AGREEMENTS FAR MORE SPECIFIC THAN WHAT THE PRESIDENT REACHED IN SINGAPORE HAS BEEN VIOLATED. BUT WHAT I HAVE BEEN CONCERNED ABOUT AS I'VE WATCHED THIS UNFOLD IS THAT THE PRESIDENT GOT FROM KIM JONG- UN, COMPLETE DENUCLEARIZE, THAT IS MORE THAN HIS FATHER AND GRANDFATHER VERY SPECIFIC AGREEMENTS IN THE PAST. THE AT'S-- PRESIDENT A'S ATTITUDE, WE'RE NO LONGER UNDER NUCLEAR THREAT FROM NORTH KOREA. YOU'LL KNOW YOU'RE UNDER NO NUCLEAR THREAT WHEN YOU CAN CHECK OFF A LIST OF THE THINGS THAT THEY HAVE GIVEN UP, EVERYBODY FROM WEAPONS TO PRODUCTION FACILITIES, TO MISSILES, TO THE CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL AND EVEN THE CYBER WEAPONS. RIGHT NOW WE'RE NO PLACE CLOSE TO THAT. WE'RE EXACTLY WHERE WE WERE WITH A MUCH IMPROVED TONE. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THAT WILL LAST. >> BRENNAN: WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NEXT STEP IS. THE SECRETARY OF STATE WOULD HAVE UPCOMING MEETING, HE SAID HE MIGHT HAVE CALLED THE NORTH KOREANS TODAY. WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? >> WELL, PRESUMABLY WHAT HAPPENS NEXT IS SOMETHING A LOT LIKE THAT YOU AND I COVERED IN THE DAYS OF THE IRAN NEGOTIATION. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A VERY DETAILED SERIES OF MEETINGS THAT WILL PROBABLY EXTEND OVER SEVERAL YEARS IN WHICH THE NORTH KOREANS WILL HAVE TO UNWIND IT. IN THE INTERIM, NORTH KOREA HAS 20- 60 NUCLEAR WEAPONS. THEIR GAIN HERE TO BE RECOGNIZED WITH THE DE FACTO NUCLEAR STATE HOPING THAT THEY'RE NOT GIVING UP EVERYTHING, THIS IS AN ARMS CONTROL TALK IN WHICH THEY JUST GIVE UP A LITTLE BIT. >> BRENNAN: IT'S INTERESTING YOU SAY THAT. DE FACTO NUCLEAR STATE. YOU WRITE IN THIS NEW BOOK ABOUT ESSENTIALLY THE U. S. UNDERESTIMATING NORTH KOREA ON LOT OF FRONTS INCLUDING IN TERMS OF THEIR CYBER CAPABILITY. THAT'S NOT SOMETHING WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AS PART OF THIS AGREEMENT NECESSARILY. BUT HOW MUCH OF A THREAT ARE THEY? >> WHAT'S INTERESTING IS, THAT THE ONLY WAY NORTH KOREA HAS ACTUALLY ATTACKED THE UNITED STATES IN THE PAST FEW YEARS, HAS BEEN WITH CYBER. WE WERE RIGHT TO FOCUS ON NUCLEAR WEAPONS. THEIR EFFECTS. CYBER IS THE OPPOSITE OF A NUCLEAR WEAPON. IT IS TARGETED. IT'S STEEL THEE AND VERY HARD TO DETER. SO WAS NORTH KOREANS WHO CAME IN TOOK OUT 70 % OF THE COMPUTING POWER OF SONY PICTURES. NOR KOREANS WHO CLEANED OUT A GOOD DEAL OF THE BANGLADESHI BANK OF $ 81 MILLION GOING THROUGH NEW YORK FED AS MOVED UP OTHER ATTACKS IN THE U. S. ALONG WITH THE CHINESE. WHAT'S HAPPENED OVER TIME IS THE COUNTRIES HAVE BEGUN TO RECOGNIZE THAT CYBER IS THE MAIN WAY THAT THEY CAN UNDERCUT EACH OTHER, THEY CAN TAKE ACTION WITHOUT GETTING MILITARY RESPONSE. OUR PROBLEM HAS BEEN, WE HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT HOW TO DETER IT. >> BRENNAN: YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT AS WELL THE LACK OF U. S. RESPONSE WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT RUSSIA CARRIED OUT ON THIS COUNTRY WITH CYBER HACKING DURING THE OBAMA YEARS. >> THAT'S RIGHT. I WAS THINKING OF YOU WERE TALKING WITH RUDY GUILIANI AND OTHERS, WE FORGET THAT THE ORIGINS OF ALL OF THIS WAS THE RUSSIA HACK OF THE DNC. BEFORE THAT HAPPENED, THE RUSSIANS WERE IN TO THE WHITE HOUSE, THE STATE DEPARTMENT, THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF AND EACH OF THOSE CASES THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, LIKE ADMINISTRATIONS BEFORE THEM DIDN'T NAME THE RUSSIANS PUBLICLY. DIDN'T PUNISH THE RUSSIANS FOR THIS, THEY FOUGHT THEM TO TRY TO GET THEM OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE COMPUTER SYSTEMS AND NEVER SAID ANYTHING PUBLICLY. >> BRENNAN: I REMEMBER THAT. >> IT WAS ALL GOING ON, THE STATE DEPARTMENT COMMUNICATIONS WERE DOWN WHEN WE WERE IN VIENNA AT VARIOUS MOTIONS. BECAUSE THEY WERE TRYING TO CLEAR THE RUSSIANS OUT OF THEIR SYSTEM. THEY MADE NO EFFORT TO PUNISH THE RUSSIANS VIEWING IT AS SORT OF OLD TIME ESPIONAGE. IF YOU'RE VLADIMIR PUTIN YOU THINK TO YOURSELF, IF THEY WOULDN'T FIGHT ME BACK ABOUT THE WHITE HOUSE, WHY ARE THEY GOING TO WORRY ABOUT DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE. >> BRENNAN: THAT IS AN EXTRAORDINARY CHALLENGE FOR THE NEW HEADS. DAVID, THIS IS A GREAT READ. THANK YOU FOR COMING ON. >> THANK YOU, MARGARET. >> BRENNAN: WE'LL BE BACK WITH MORE " FACE THE NATION" IN A MOMENT. >> BRENNAN: THEY HAVE BEEN CALLED THE BAYOU BROTHERS, DEMOCRAT CEDRIC RICHMOND AND REPUBLICAN STEVE SCALISE HAVE BEEN FRIENDS SINCE THE STATE HOUSE. NOW THEY'RE BOTH EYEING HIGHER LEADERSHIP ROLES IN THE U. S. CONGRESS. A YEAR AGO SCALISE WAS CRITICALLY WOUNDED IN AN ATTACK ON REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF CONGRESS PRACTICING FOR CHARITY BASEBALL GAME. RICHMOND WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO GET TO SCALISE'S SIDE AFTER HE ARRIVED AT THE HOSPITAL. THEIR FRIENDSHIP PROVING EVEN THOSE DIVIDED IN POLITICS WILL STILL BE GOOD FRIENDS. WE SPOKE WITH THEM EARLIER. >> SO MANY PEOPLE LOOK AT THAT SHOOTING, THE POLITICAL MOTIVATION BEHIND IT AS REFLECTIVE OF THE DIVISIONS IN THIS COUNTRY. BUT YOU'RE SITTING HERE TALKING ABOUT BEING CLOSE FRIENDS DESPITE THIS DIVIDE K. IS MORE REFLECTIVE OF WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW. >> WE'RE A DIVIDED NATION RIGHT NOW. BUT IF YOU LOOK BACK AT THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY, OUR FOUNDERS SET UP A SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT WHERE WITH THE RIGHTS OF FREE SPEECH, THE ABILITY, YOU GO GO OUT DISAGREE WITH PEOPLE CAN YOU CAN ACTUALLY EXPRESS THOSE DISAGREEMENTS, IN MANY COUNTRIES YOU CAN'T. THE DIFFERENCE IS, NUMBER ONE, NEVER MAKE THOSE DISAGREEMENTS PERSONAL BUT THERE'S NO EXCUSE TO COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE TO RESORT TO VIOLENCE TO TRY TO RESOLVE SOME KIND OF DISAGREEMENT WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEBODY. >> LOOK, THE DIVISIONS IN THIS COUNTRY RIGHT NOW I BELIEVE IS AT ONE OF THE HIGHEST PEAKS IN MY GENERATION. HOPEFULLY WE CAN START TO BRIDGE THAT DIVIDE BY LEADING BY EXAMPLE. AND IT WILL HAVE TO COME FROM CONGRESS. THAT'S CLEAR. BUT WE JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE JUDGE PEOPLE BY WHOLE BUNCH OF FACTORS BUT IT SHOULDN'T BE POLITICAL PARTY, SHOULDN'T BE RACE, SHOULDN'T BE GENDER OR SEXUAL ORIENTATION WHETHER THE PERSON IS A NICE PERSON OR NOT. AND TO THE EX DEPARTMENT THAT YOU AGREE THAT THE PERSON IS A NICE PERSON THEN TRY TO FIND COMMON GROUND. STEVE AND I, OUR BATTLES, EVEN PLANE RIDES HOME WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ISSUES IT'S CLEAR WE DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE ON MOST OF THEM HOW TO GET THERE. >> BRENNAN: THAT'S HEALTH CARE, IMMIGRATION, TAX CUTS. >> THE LIST GOES ON. >> BRENNAN: DO YOU ARGUE? >> I GET ALL THE ARGUMENTS HE KEEPS VOTING THE WRONG WAY. >> GOOD NEWS IS WE LOOK AT THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT HOW IT'S IMPROVING LIVES AROUND THE COUNTRY AND I GET TO SAY -- THAT'S ONLY BECAUSE YOU ALL GUTTED THE GOOD THINGS. BUT WE HAVE THIS. WHERE WE TALK ABOUT ISSUES AND WE TEASE EACH OTHER A LOT. WE LIKE TO SAY THAT DEMOCRATS ALTHOUGH JUST SPENT $ 2 TRILLION ON TAX CUT THEY DIDN'T PAY FOR. >> SPENDING MONEY BY GIVING PEOPLE THEIR MONEY BACK, INTERESTING WHEN THEY ONLY CARES ABOUT DEFICIT WHEN IT INVOLVES PEOPLE HAVE THEIR OWN MONEY BACK. >> YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR $ 2 TRILLION THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY. LIKES TO WIN ARGUMENTS. I WIN THE BASEBALL GAMES. >> WE'LL GIVE HIM THE TROPHY FOR SHOWING UP WE'LL HAVE TO CEDRIC. >> FOR NOW. >> NOVEMBER 6 RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER. >> BRENNAN: WHAT IS OVER- UNDER ON THAT? DO YOU PLACE BETS? >> I'LL WIN RE- ELECTION IN MINE. WE'LL HOLD THE HOUSE THOUGH. >> BRENNAN: YOU SAID HE WOULD BE GOOD SPEAKER IF HE-- >> I WANT HIM TO BE THE HEAD REPUBLICAN, I DO. I JUST WANT HIM TO BE IN THE MINORITY. >> MAKE GREAT MINORITY LEADER. >> WHEN WE HOLD THE MAJORITY I LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING CEDRIC WORK WITH US, HE'LL BE MINORITY LEADER MAYBE. WE'LL BE ABLE TO WORK ON A NUMBER OF THINGS. >> BRENNAN: WHAT ABOUT IMMIGRATION? DO YOU HAVE ANY POINTS OF AGREEMENT? >> SHOULDN'T WE SECURE THE BORDER. IN OUR BILL WE'LL BUILD A WALL. WE ALSO SOLVE THE DACA PROBLEM BUT FIXED SOME OF THE PROBLEMS THAT STOP US FROM SECURING THE BORDER. A LOT OF THE INTERNAL SECURITY MEASURES. HOMELAND SECURITY IDENTIFIED SO MANY DIFFERENT LOOPHOLES. MAKE IT HARD TO SECURE AMERICA'S BORDER. >> DO YOU THINK FOR COUNTRY IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE VOTE ON IMMIGRATION AHEAD OF NOVEMBER? FOR BOTH PARTIES? >> I THINK SO. BECAUSE I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW WHERE WE ARE. THE HEAD OF THEIR PARTY OCCUPIES THE WHITE HOUSE IF YOU GIVE ME BORDER SECURITY, IF YOU GIVE ME A WALL I'M WILLING TO CREATE A PATHWAY TO CITIZENSHIP FOR DACA. IF YOU ALL GET IT PASSED I'LL SIGN IT. THEN, THIS IS WHERE IT ALWAYS GET CONTENTIOUS THROWS IN THE DIVERSITY VITAE PROGRAM WHICH IS LARGEST PROGRAM WHICH AFRICAN AMERICANS COME TO THIS COUNTRY, THEY ARE BETTER EDUCATED THAN EVEN AMERICAN CHILDREN WHEN THEY GET HERE SO THOSE ARE THE HARD THINGS. HIS ROLE IN CONGRESS IS COMPLICATED A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE INTRODUCE THE PRESIDENT. IF WE DIDN'T HAVE WHITE HOUSE INVOLVED I THINK THERE ARE A BUNCH OF ISSUES WE CAN COME TOGETHER ON. >> BRENNAN: WE ALSO SPOKE WITH THE TWO ABOUT THEIR DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES ON BOTH TRIM PRESIDENT TRUMP AND RACE IN AMERICA THAT CONVERSATION IS AVAILABLE ON OUR WEBSITE FACETHENATION. COM. >> BRENNAN: THAT'S IT FOR US TODAY. THANK YOU FOR WATCHING. BEFORE WE GO WE'D LIKE TO WISH ALL OF THE FATHERS OUT THERE A VERY HAPPY FATHER'S DAY. INCLUDING MY DAD AND MY FATHER IN LAW, THOSE WHO ARE SOON TO BE FATHERS. UNTIL NEXT WEEK FOR " FACE THE NATION" I'M MARGARET BRENNAN.
