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Full transcript of "Face the Nation" on August 30, 2020

Face The Nation: Cameron, Crump, Gottlieb, Brown
Face The Nation: Cameron, Crump, Gottlieb, Br... 23:11

On this "Face the Nation" broadcast moderated by Margaret Brennan:

  • Chad Wolf, Acting Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security  
  • Rep. Val Demings, D-Florida
  • Daniel Cameron, Attorney General of Kentucky 
  • Ben Crump, Civil Rights Attorney Representing Family of Jacob Blake 
  • Dr. Scott Gottlieb, Former FDA Commissioner
  • James Brown, CBS News Special Correspondent and host of The NFL Today on CBS Sport

Click here to browse full transcripts of "Face the Nation."

MARGARET BRENNAN: I am Margaret Brennan in Washington. And this week on FACE THE NATION, with President Trump painting a bleak portrait of America under a Biden administration, Americans are reeling from more racial injustice protests, devastating natural disasters, and continued spread of COVID-19. With the dark days of August coming to an end, the challenges facing America in the fall are staggering. As the clock ticks down to Election Day, the competition between the candidates is now focused on just how bad things would be under the other guy's leadership.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Today's Democrat Party is filled with hate. Just look at Joe Biden's supporters on the streets, screaming and shouting at bystanders, with unhinged, manic rage.
JOE BIDEN: The problem we have right now is we're in Donald Trump's America.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Kenosha, Wisconsin, where Jacob Blake was paralyzed following a police shooting, saw more unrest this weekend, as did Portland, Oregon, where protests have been held for ninety-one nights.
SENATOR KAMALA HARRIS: The reality is that the life of a black person in America has never been treated as fully human.
MARGARET BRENNAN: For the most part it's been peaceful protestors seeking justice, but the President is calling for law and order.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Your vote will decide whether we protect law-abiding Americans, or whether we give free reign to violent anarchists, agitators, and criminals who threaten our citizens.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll talk with Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf. Plus, we'll here from Florida Congresswoman Val Demings. She's a former police chief and a Biden supporter. Kentucky Attorney General Daniel Cameron supports the President and is overseeing the Breonna Taylor case. We'll also speak to Attorney Benjamin Crump. He's representing the Taylor and Blake families. Former FDA Commission and Doctor Scott Gottlieb will give us an update on COVID-19. Finally, as the sports world fights racism in America with boycotts, an emotional public plea.
DOC RIVERS: It's amazing to me why we keep loving this country, and this country does not love us back.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll talk with CBS News special correspondent and host of The NFL Today, our own James Brown.
It's all just ahead on FACE THE NATION.
Good morning and welcome to FACE THE NATION. It is another grim Sunday morning here in Washington. In the aftermath of protests at Black Lives Matter Plaza just down the street from us here at CBS, as well as in other cities across the country. This as the number of corona cases worldwide passed the twenty-five-million mark. Almost a quarter of those cases are here in the U.S. The death toll is near a hundred and eighty-three thousand. We begin this morning with CBS News national correspondent Mark Strassmann in Atlanta, Georgia.
(Begin VT)
MARK STRASSMANN (CBS News National Correspondent): Chaos overnight in Washington, DC, one block from the White House. Police waving steel batons cleared out a couple hundred Black Lives Matter protesters. They also fired teargas and flashbang grenades to get people moving. The clashes were among the worst seen here in the last couple months.
MAN #1: I think that's not my car.
MARK STRASSMANN: More confrontation across the country in Portland, Oregon. A caravan of Trump supporters drove downtown and scuffled with protesters.
MAN #2: Get back in your car, dude.
MAN #3: Pull the flag up. What are you going to do?
MARK STRASSMANN: Suddenly gunfire. A man lay dead in the street, shot in the chest. Police say the hat he wore represented a far right group. They've battled before with protesters here who have gathered nightly for months.
MAN #4: And thank you for our cops for not doing damn thing.
CROWD (in unison): No justice, no peace.
MARK STRASSMANN: And this is Kenosha, Wisconsin, at the intersection of injustice and outrage. It's not on a GPS, you have to feel it to find it, like these protesters.
MAN #5: Say hi name.
CROWD (in unison): Jacob Blake.
MARK STRASSMANN:  They marched again this weekend because Jacob Blake may never walk again. A week ago his three children screamed as a white police officer shot him seven times in the back.
JACOB BLAKE SR.: What gave them the right to think that my son was an animal?
MARK STRASSMANN: Blake's father addressed protesters.
JACOB BLAKE SR.: I'm tired of this. I'm tired of this. No justice.
CROWD (in unison): No peace.
JACOB BLAKE SR.: No justice.
CROWD (in unison): No peace.
JACOB BLAKE SR.: And we're not going to stop.
MAN #6: (INDISTINCT) takes the three and hits it.
MARK STRASSMANN: Back in action this weekend, NBA playoff games. After the Kenosha shooting, players began boycotting to protest issues of social justice. Work stoppages spread across the WNBA, Major League Soccer and Major League Baseball before games resumed. Dodgers superstar Mookie Betts:
MOOKIE BETTS: Doc said there's a lot going on in the world and change needs to be made.
MARK STRASSMANN: America's other ongoing crisis is COVID, also still in search of needed change. Nationally, new cases and deaths are generally falling. But the new health worry is in Midwest and Upper Plains States, where new cases are rising. And the CDC stumbled again this week. Its revised guidance suggested limited testing to patients who show viral symptoms. Public health experts pounced. Forty percent of people with COVID show no symptoms and can spread the virus. Director Robert Redfield later said anyone exposed to the virus can get tested.
(End VT)
MARK STRASSMANN: And with schools from kindergarten to college reopening across the country, health experts expect another COVID spike. Sometime in the next three weeks, America's official COVID death toll will top two hundred thousand people. Just like those protesters the virus shows no sign of disappearing. Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mark Strassmann in Atlanta. Thank you.
We want to go now to the Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf. He joins us from FEMA headquarters here in Washington. Good morning to you.
CHAD WOLF (Acting Homeland Security Secretary/@DHS_Wolf): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about what is going on in Portland overnight. We saw a man there killed during dueling demonstrations between a pro-Trump caravan and Black Lives Matters activists. Given the situation, which seems very tense, will the Trump administration ask for everyone, including those pro-Trump supporters, to pull back?
CHAD WOLF: Well, we've been asking Portland to do their job really for over three months now. What you see in Portland is an environment--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But I'm asking about the pro-Trump supporters.
CHAD WOLF: --they-- they foster an environment-- they foster an environment of this lawlessness and chaos. We've-- we've been asking the governor and others to send in the National Guard to address the violence so that you don't have dueling demonstrations. You don't have this violence that occurs night after night after night on the streets of Portland. So, we need them to do their job. We need them to step up. And if they can't or they don't have the ability or the resources, ask the federal government. We'll provide those resources, as we've done in Wisconsin and in others, so that we can address any violence, any violence across the spectrum.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But-- I hear what you're saying, but the President has tweeted about Portland twelve times in the past forty-eight hours, including retweeting a video of his supporters, people with Trump flags flying, driving into Portland, and he called them "Great Patriots." Doesn't that heightened tension when you say you're trying to lower it?
CHAD WOLF: Absolutely not. I think what-- again, what we see in Portland and various other cities is-- is--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you endorse this as the President appears to be doing?
CHAD WOLF: --local officials not doing their job and protecting the people of those communities. And what we've seen in Portland is almost three months, three months of allowing individuals to come in night after night and set fire to government buildings with little to no consequences.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, are you saying that the local officials have failed to stop the Trump supporters from driving into Portland?
CHAD WOLF: I-- I've-- they have failed to stop--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because the President seems to be endorsing them doing so.
CHAD WOLF: They have failed to-- to protect their communities, specifically in Portland. And we've seen that. We have over seventy-four-- over ninety arrests, seventy-four different criminal citations that the FBI is pursuing against individuals. We need Portland to step up, bring this violence to a close, and I think you'll see a lot of this go away.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. It sounds then like you're asking Portland officials to crack down on the Trump supporters, too. If that's not what you mean, please clarify. The President said that--
CHAD WOLF: I'm ask--
CHAD WOLF: I'm asking Portland officials, so that's the mayor, that's the governor and that's local law enforcement to do their job to address any violent activity that is occurring in their streets. As soon as they do that-- again, we'll see that, as we've seen in Wisconsin and other places, we'll see the violence go down to almost zero. And this will address the issue that Portland has been dealing with for three months--
CHAD WOLF: --that the citizens of Portland have been dealing with for over three months. It's time to end lawlessness and the chaos that we see in Portland.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The President said Friday at his New Hampshire rally that he's been discussing invoking the Insurrection Act to deal with Wisconsin. He's mentioned things about Portland, as well. You've been in the room when the President has discussed using the Insurrection Act in the past. Do you support its use now to send in active-duty military to American cities?
CHAD WOLF: Again, I'm not going to get in front of the President on any decisions that he may or may not make, but what I can tell you--
MARGARET BRENNAN: I am not asking about the President's decision. I'm asking if you support?
CHAD WOLF: What I can tell you is I have been in-- I have been in a number of decisions, in a number of meetings where we have addressed and talked about the violence that's going on in a number of cities around this country, including Portland, but also Wisconsin, Chicago, Atlanta, and other cities. The President's been very clear. I think he made very-- numerous public statements asking state and local officials to do their job and if they can't, request assistance from the federal government. Department of Justice will send assets. The department will send assets if there's federal facilities or federal law enforcement officers being targeted. And we will help them to provide assets and resources that they don't have.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, that sounds like no since that would be seeking consent of the governor and local officials. It sounds like you're saying, no, you don't support the Insurrection Act. If that's not the case, please, clarify.
CHAD WOLF: Margaret, I-- again, Margaret, what I will tell you is, again, I'm not going to get in front of the President. What I support is making sure that we bring this violence in a number of these cities around the country to an end.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I also want to ask you about what's going on with election security. DHS is the primary federal agency tasked with overseeing election security. Will your agency continue to brief both houses of Congress on election security?
CHAD WOLF: Absolutely. We've--
CHAD WOLF: --done that over twenty-five-- yes, Margaret. Again, if I can answer. Absolutely. We've done that over twenty-five times in the last two months. We have briefings, in-person briefings set up this week for the Senate and the House. And we have another eight or nine scheduled between now and the election. Again, I think what people need to differentiate between what the department does and what the intelligence community does, the department, DHS, through our CISA, Cyber Security and Infrastructure Security Agency, we're focused on cyber threats targeting election infrastructure. And we're going to continue to work with our secretaries of state around the country, but also brief members of Congress. A lot of the information that the department deals with is in an unclassified nature. And so we're happy to continue to share the good work that we're doing to try to secure those systems ahead of the November elections.
MARGARET BRENNAN: As you know, the director of National Intelligence informed Congress that he will not brief in person, at least members of the House, on election security as it relates to foreign interference. Given that you say it is a concern to protect the integrity of elections, why are you limiting information flow to elected lawmakers?
CHAD WOLF: Again, the DNI statement that he put out, again, they deal with classified intelligence.
CHAD WOLF: His concern is the leak-- is the leak of that classified intelligence. They're going to continue to provide Congress all the information they need in a written, finished intelligence product so that Congress can have the information they need to do their oversight responsibilities. So this is not about limiting access. This is about providing the information to Congress. They're going to do that in a different format.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you feel comfortable sharing classified information with members of Congress?
CHAD WOLF: Again, the information that we share with Congress that we brief with Congress is almost exclusively unclassified information. And again, it's about cyber threats to election infrastructure. Different from the foreign interference or disinformation campaigns that the intelligence communities and others are dealing with.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Wolf, thank you very much for joining us today.
CHAD WOLF: Okay, thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to Florida Democratic Congresswoman Val Demings. She joins us this morning from her district in Orlando. Good morning to you.
REPRESENTATIVE VAL DEMINGS (D-Florida/@RepValDemings): Good morning. It's great to be with you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to start on what's happened overnight, given the violence in Portland where Black Lives Matter activists clashed with these pro Trump supporters. What is your-- your message to the activists themselves? It's been more than ninety days of protest. Now you have a fatality. Do things need to de-escalate?
REPRESENTATIVE VAL DEMINGS: Well, let me just say this: After listening to the interview you had with Acting Secretary Wolf, Margaret, this is exactly what happens when Homeland Security, the intelligence community, the military, and others who were charged with protecting our homeland are politicized. And so listening to the secretary just really sends a strong message that the President is not capable of fulfilling his duties, which his primary responsibility is the health, safety and well-being of the American people. Wouldn't it be--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But what about the activists themselves? What is your message to them?
REPRESENTATIVE VAL DEMINGS: Yeah, but wouldn't it be nice for the President of the United States to take to the microphone or the airwaves and send a message for peace and calm, talking to the protesters, talking to the demonstrators, but also talking to those who come in and loot and steal and do harm, those who are on his side--
REPRESENTATIVE VAL DEMINGS: --his supporters who have come in and taken the lives of people trying to send a calming and peaceful message. And this is a time, more now than ever that we need--
REPRESENTATIVE VAL DEMINGS: --to hear from the President of the United States. But the chaos and the disorder and the lawlessness that we are currently seeing, that's Donald Trump's America.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I understand the point you're trying to make here. But when it comes to the activists, and I understand how well-intentioned the protest may be, but there have been a number of incidents, including here in Washington, DC, where the other day your-- your congressional colleague, Senator Rand Paul, was encircled by a mob shouting Breonna Taylor's name. He said he feared for his life. Has some element of these protests gotten out of hand?
REPRESENTATIVE VAL DEMINGS: What I am saying is that in America, we know that demonstrators have the right to demonstrate guaranteed by the First Amendment.
REPRESENTATIVE VAL DEMINGS: However, we are a nation of laws, and anyone on any side in any place who violates the law has to be held accountable. We don't condemn people who are obeying the law because of those who do not obey the law. We can do both--
REPRESENTATIVE VAL DEMINGS: -and we have done both in this America, and that's what we need to do. And, again, we need the President of the United States to show some leadership during this situation. But that may be asking for too much from President Trump.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you-- you know that the President's slogan is law and order. He's been using it repeatedly in recent days. Don't incidents like the one we just saw or what's happening in Portland play into your opponent's argument?
REPRESENTATIVE VAL DEMINGS: Margaret, as you know, I served on the Intelligence Community-- Committee and the Judiciary Committee. I served as an impeachment manager. It is quite interesting to listen to President Donald John Trump talk about being the law and order President when no one has violated the law in 2020 more than he has. We're talking about a President who just had his kickoff for his re-election on the grounds of the White House. And we all know that that was a violation of law. Clearly, again, those who obey the law--
REPRESENTATIVE VAL DEMINGS: --should be able to peacefully demonstrate and-- and exercise their First Amendment right. Those who do not, up to and including the President of the United States, regardless of the circumstances, should be and must be held accountable.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The White House argues they got permission from the Office of Special Counsel for that. But I want to move on to ask you about what's happening in Wisconsin. President Trump says he's going to visit Kenosha, Wisconsin, Tuesday. Is candidate Biden or Senator Kamala Harris, should they go? Do they plan to go to Kenosha as well?
REPRESENTATIVE VAL DEMINGS: Well, I'm not really sure what Vice President Biden's plans are. What I can say is that, you know, there's a lot going on in the grounds in Wisconsin right now. And every time a high-profile visit is-- is made, there are a lot of resources that have to go into that visit. However, as the President of the United States, whether it's a natural disaster or civil unrest, I think should take the time--
REPRESENTATIVE VAL DEMINGS: --and the resources to go and be on the ground and, again, provide that peace and calm. And again, Margaret, as we talk about what is going on, civil unrest that is happening, unfortunately, in our nation, it's something we're certainly familiar with and have been familiar with for decades. But I would say as we try to resolve this situation--
REPRESENTATIVE VAL DEMINGS: --I think as we have these discussions, it's important that we stop talking about the police and start talking to the police--
REPRESENTATIVE VAL DEMINGS: --and start talking with the police.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Quickly, since you were a former police chief, what happened to Jacob Blake shot seven times. The police were responding and knew there was a warrant out for his arrest. Is there in any way any justification for what happened?
REPRESENTATIVE VAL DEMINGS: I think what we have to do is all take a deep breath. If we want justice to be served, we've got to wait until a thorough and complete investigation is done. We do not want to play judge, jury and executioner, whether we're talking about Mister Blake or we're talking about the police officer. We want the facts and we must have all of them if we want to see justice served. And I believe we all do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congresswoman Demings, thank you for joining us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we'll be right back with Kentucky's Attorney General Daniel Cameron. Stay with us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to the Republican attorney general of Kentucky, Daniel Cameron. He joins us this morning from Louisville. Good morning to you.
DANIEL CAMERON (Attorney General of Kentucky/@kyoag): Good morning, Margaret. Thanks for having me on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thanks for joining us. You were at the RNC this week giving a full-throated endorsement of President Trump. I want to ask you about something he did this morning when he liked a tweet from a supporter who wrote, "Kyle Rittenhouse is a good example of why I decided to vote for Trump." That's the seventeen-year-old who shot three people, killing two of them in Kenosha this week when he took the law into his own hands. Is that the kind of law and order for America that the President endorses and you support?
DANIEL CAMERON: Well, let me just say that I condone violence in all of its forms. I want to make that clear from the very beginning. I also want to address, you know, during my speech Tuesday evening, I tried to make it very clear that as Republicans, we recognize those who in earnest want to make sure that there's peace, justice, and equality in this country--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did you mean condemn, Sir?
DANIEL CAMERON: I'm sorry, say that again.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You said condone.
DANIEL CAMERON: Say that again please.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I think perhaps you misspoke when you said you condone violence, you meant you condemn it?
DANIEL CAMERON: No, condemn violence in all forms. Absolutely, yes, Ma'am.
MARGARET BRENNAN: During your speech, when you endorsed President Trump, you spent a lot of time talking about race and in particular comments that Joe Biden has made about black Americans that you found offensive, you said. Did you also find it offensive when President Trump tweeted last month a video of supporters of his yelling white power?
DANIEL CAMERON: Well, look, what I was trying to articulate the other evening is that Joe Biden, the way that he looks at the black vote, he looks at it as a monolithic vote. In my judgment, there is great diversity within the black community. And Joe Biden doesn't seem to get that message nor understand it. And so what I was trying to say the other evening is that Joe Biden has taken for granted African-Americans in this country. And whether you are a black conservative or a black Democrat or moderate--
DANIEL CAMERON: --I think it is wise to look at your options during this campaign and make an individual assessment--
DANIEL CAMERON: --of who will better serve your interests. That was what I was trying to articulate. And I think that President Trump, look, he fights every day for the American worker. I can certainly say that I've known him for--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But on this specific-- sorry. But on that very specific question of something he tweeted that-- that your fellow Republican Senator Tim Scott, on this program rejected and before that has said in his view President Trump does say things that are racially insensitive. To be clear, were you also offended when the President did this?
DANIEL CAMERON: Well, I look again, I condemn any sorts of violence, any sort of racist rhetoric. I certainly recognize that this is a country that is ever growing and evolving. The Republican Party stands with those who welcome peace, justice, and equality. I think just like your viewers, we can certainly tell the difference between those that in earnest want to make sure that there's peace, justice and equality in this country as opposed that are trying to hijack this moment.
DANIEL CAMERON: Again, President Trump can speak for himself and-- and voters get to make an assessment of him--
DANIEL CAMERON: --and President-- Vice President Pence. So, look, I appreciate the way that President Trump has reached out to me, brought me into the fold in terms of conversations about law and order. We cannot have chaos reign in the streets.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I don't think anyone wants chaos reigning in the streets, Sir. But we will have to take a commercial break and continue our conversation with you on the other side of it. So please stay with us. And all of you, please stay with us, because there's much more ahead.
MARGARET BRENNAN: CBS News is launching a new franchise for original reporting on issues that affect traditionally underrepresented communities. It is called CBS Village, and it's debuting with the Power of August, which is a new documentary that explores key moments in civil rights history that happened during the month of August. To watch, go to
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll be right back with more from Kentucky Attorney General Daniel Cameron, and we'll hear from the civil rights attorney, representing the Blake family, Benjamin Crump. Plus, Doctor Scott Gottlieb, and our own James Brown. Stay with us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION. Let's pick up where we left off with Kentucky Attorney General Daniel Cameron.
Glad to have you back with us. I want to begin asking you about where the Republican Party is right now in terms of this particular issue. According to our CBS News Battleground Tracker, eight in ten Republicans think that there has been too much attention recently on the issue of discrimination compared to forty-four percent of voters overall and twelve percent of Democrats. Do you believe that discrimination is talked too much about in our country?
DANIEL CAMERON: Well, look, again, I will point back to the remarks that I made on Tuesday evening where I talked about the Republican Party wanting justice, peace and equality, and we certainly recognize anybody who has an agenda that is consistent with those values. But, again, like your viewers, we can certainly tell the difference between those that want those things in earnest and those who are trying to hijack a moment. So I think that poll probably indicates those within our party who recognize the legitimacy of those who--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I was asking about you if you agree with those Republicans who say it's talked about too much?
DANIEL CAMERON: I think that we need to make sure that we have frank conversations about race and-- and color and discrimination within this country. There's--
DANIEL CAMERON: --again, the Republican Party has been founded on the idea of making sure that those are marginalized and vulnerable in this country have a fair shake.
MARGARET BRENNAN: As attorney general in Kentucky, you will make the decision as to what happens to those police officers involved in the killing of Breonna Taylor. Why has it taken you this long? It's been five months. When will you actually make a decision on whether to sentence them and charge them?
DANIEL CAMERON: Well, at-- at-- in the-- Representative Deming's right before I came on talked about wanting a thorough and fair investigation, and I wholeheartedly agree with that. That's what we have been conducting here in the Commonwealth. As part of my time in Washington, DC. I met with the Department of Justice and FBI. We've got a critical component here as it relates to a ballistics report. There's no video footage of the incident in question and Miss Taylor's passing. And I can announce to you today as part of those efforts early this week, we have received that ballistics report. Now, again, that is a critical piece of this investigation. It's not the end all be all. There are still some witness testimony and interviews that have to be conducted. But we do have that ballistics report. We will be meeting with the FBI at the beginning of this upcoming week to have a painstaking review of that information. And that will help us in the analysis that needs to be undertaken before we can get to final steps. But just again, like Representative Deming said--
DANIEL CAMERON: --we need a thorough and fair investigation, and I wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I'm curious as to what information you need, specifically, that you are hoping to learn from this ballistics. I just want to read from a letter from-- that was written to one of the three officers terminated. It was from the chief of police to that officer. And it is scathing. It says, Brett Hankinson displayed an "…extreme indifference to the value of human life when you wantonly and blindly fired ten rounds into the apartment of Breonna Taylor…" He says the shooter wouldn't have even been able to know who he was firing at. Some of the rounds went into the apartment next door. It sounds like he was just blindly firing here. How is that not clearly a criminal action? What is it that you actually need to hear more than what the police chief has said himself?
DANIEL CAMERON: Well, Margaret, I don't want to get into the specifics. It is an ongoing investigation and I don't want to compromise it in any way, but be confident. And again, your viewers should know that we are looking under every stone, leaving no stone unturned as it relates to this investigation. Again, a thorough and fair investigation is what is deserve-- deserved by all those involved. Look, as the attorney general, initially, this was not our case. We took this case--
DANIEL CAMERON: --because we have the resources internally to conduct a fair and thorough investigation. We've got career prosecutors and investigators with a wealth of knowledge and information that can undertake an independent investigation.
DANIEL CAMERON: And we also have the strength of relationships with the FBI to receive this balli-- ballistics report and information that can be critical to our analysis.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we look forward to hearing an update from you now that you have that information. Thank you very much, Mister Attorney General.
DANIEL CAMERON: Yes, Ma'am. Thank you.
We turn now to Benjamin Crump. He is the attorney representing the family of Jacob Blake. He's also represented the families of Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, and George Floyd, and he joins us from Tallahassee, Florida. Mister Crump, if you could respond to the news that we just heard from Daniel Cameron, the attorney general. He said that they now have the ballistics report from the FBI, which suggests something is happening, forward movement with this case after five months. What are you expecting?
BENJAMIN CRUMP (Civil Rights Attorney Representing Family of Jacob Blake/@AttorneyCrump): Well, Margaret, thank you for having me. And that is welcome news because since Breonna Taylor was executed in the sanctity of her own home by this no-knock warrant that was dangerously executed, we have been trying to get answers, our legal team. And as for her mother, who every day demanded from the police department, why did they execute her daughter in her own apartment? And they've gotten no answers. It's just been delay tactic, delay tactic, delay tactic. We've been told when they get the ballistics report that's what they needed to wrap up this investigation and finally give them answers that they so desperately want and the community so desperately needs to try to heal. So, at this point, we are hoping that this conclusion will be sooner rather than later because justice delayed is justice denied.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you suggesting that the attorney general was deliberately delaying this? Is that what you are suggesting here?
BENJAMIN CRUMP: Well, I know Breonna Taylor's family is distrustful of the entire system. You must remember, Margaret, the police report, this three-page police report erroneously reported that there was no forced entry and that there were no injuries, even though Breonna Taylor's body was mutilated with eight bullets while she was practically naked. And so, this is the conspiracy that the family believe was at the beginning to sweep her death under the rug. So, you have to forgive them from not trust in any law enforcement officials right now and why black people all over America are distrustful--
BENJAMIN CRUMP: --because when it is fitting for them, they released information very quickly. But when it's something that holds the police accountable, it's we got this long, exhaustive investigation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about Jacob Blake, whose-- whose family you are working with. How is he doing? And how are the three children who were in his car when they watched their father being shot?
BENJAMIN CRUMP: Margaret, thank you for asking about Jacob. Obviously, he suffered catastrophic injuries. A bullet pierced his spinal cord, a bullet shattered his vertebrae. A bullet went into his intestines where he lost most of his intestines. A bullet went into his colon where he lost his colon. A bullet went into his kidney. Thank God they were able to save that. He has two holes in the stomach. He has a hole in his arm from a bullet. He's lost control of the bowel movements. He has no functions of his male organs. And for the rest of his life, he's going to be a shell of himself. And his three little boys were in that car, ages eight years old, five years old and three years old. And they witnessed all of this. So, you can only imagine the psychological issues these little babies are going to have.
BENJAMIN CRUMP: And his eight-year-old son was celebrating his birthday. So, imagine what the rest of his birthdays are going to be each year.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ugh. Our-- our thoughts are with his children. I want to ask you, the President has announced he plans to go to Kenosha, Wisconsin, on Tuesday and he will meet with law enforcement. Has the Blake family been contacted? Do they-- are they open to meeting with the President? Have they been asked?
BENJAMIN CRUMP: The Blake family has not been contacted at this time. Blake family is very respectful of all our elected officials. And as his mother says, she prays for all of our elected officials. So we will see from whether the President Trump's administration or Vice President Biden campaign, and him and Kamala Harris, the senator, have already spoken for about an hour--
BENJAMIN CRUMP: --to the Blake family. But they are just focused right now, Margaret, on trying to march for their son because he'd never be able to stand up--
BENJAMIN CRUMP: --for himself unless a miracle happens.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mister Crump, thank you very much for your time today.
We will be--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --right back with Doctor Scott Gottlieb. Stay with us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to former FDA Commissioner Doctor Scott Gottlieb, who joins us from Westport, Connecticut. Good morning to you.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB, MD (Former FDA Commissioner/@ScottGottliebMD): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, we are around forty-one thousand infections a day, nine hundred or so deaths a day. How dangerous is it to be taking this level of virus into the fall with us?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Well, I think it's concerning. August should have been a slow month. We should have seen infection levels come down in July and August. They didn't. We saw an epidemic cross over the Sun Belt and we saw infections actually increase. They're coming down now. So, that's a good sign. Hospitalizations are coming down. And I think that's the most important thing to be looking at because it's the most objective near-term measure on what the state of the epidemic really is. So, hospitalizations are about thirty-six thousand down from their peak. Hopefully, they'll continue to come down. But as we head into September and October, kids return to school. People are starting to return to work. We're likely to see infections start to go back up again. And we know that hospitalizations lag infections and so we could see hospitalizations rise as well. The most concerning trend right now is that as we see the cases fall in the Sun Belt, they're picking up in other parts of the country, particularly across the Midwest and the mid-- West, and particularly in rural parts of the country. And that's a big concern because those parts of the country probably have less health care resources to keep up--
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: --with the epidemic. They don't have the same kinds of hospitals and same kinds of resources to deal with an epidemic like this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about an interview that was just posted in the Financial Times with the FDA-- current FDA commissioner, Doctor Hahn. He said, or he appears to say, that he is open to approving a vaccine before phase three trials are completed. That's the stage at which the most sort of rigorous testing is done. I mean, Russia and China did this and were criticized. Why would the FDA commissioner say that he's considering doing that here in the U.S.?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Well, I saw the article. I don't know what is meant by saying before the phase three trials are completed. These phase three trials are event-based trials, meaning that they're going to start to read out data after a certain amount of events accrue in the clinical trials. And those events are people getting COVID infection. And so as the trials progress, if we start to see lower rates of COVID infection in the active group, the group that receives the vaccine versus the placebo group, the group that hasn't received the vaccine. The trials could read out earlier if the-- if the vaccines are very effective. It's likely that the trials aren't going to read out until October. In order to read out in November-- in-- in November, they won't read out until November. In order to read out in October, the vaccines would have to be very effective. And so I'm not sure what he means by approving it earlier than when the trials are completed. They're going to wait for these trials to read out before they can make a decision around the efficacy of these vaccines. Now, it's likely going to be the case that the first authorization of these vaccines are going to be an emergency use authorization for select populations that are at higher risk of the infection, either because of what they do--
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: --people who work in health care, for example, health care jobs, or because of comorbidities, people who are older, maybe nursing home patients. So we're likely to see a stepwise progression of authorization of this vaccine for certain select populations that are at higher risk of either contracting it or having a bad outcome before we see a full approval for the general population. I think, again, of full approval for the general population, where people can go to CVS and get a shot, that's really a 2021 event, maybe the first quarter of 2021, probably more likely the first half.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But for the FDA commissioner to say something like this, I mean, it's going to be ultimately his job to approve a vaccine for Americans to go get those shots in the arm whenever they are available. For him to say something that suggests bypassing protocols, isn't that very damaging for the public agency that Americans need to trust?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Well, look, I think that the agency should be speaking to the process and the-- the process is rigorous. The process is well established. The agency has put out very clear guidelines of what the approvable-- approvability of these vaccines is, what the metric is that they're going to use as a basis to approve these vaccines. And what they've said is the vaccines need to be fifty percent effective in either reducing the incidence of COVID disease or reducing infection, reducing people actually getting infected. And so it's-- there's very clear objective criteria that's been put out. I think that's what the agency should be speaking to and its leadership should be speaking to, the process, the fact that it's-- it's well articulated. There's clear guidelines put out. It goes through multiple layers of review among professional scientists, career scientists who have been doing this a very long time. And, ultimately, the decisions are made by career leadership of the clinical centers, of the biologic center. I think people can have confidence in that process and that's what they should be pointing to, not speaking about, you know, the circumstances in which decisions might be made earlier or later. I think just focusing on the process and the process itself, if we rely on that--
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: --it has integrity and rigor to it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Just to be very clear. Are you saying that the FDA commissioner couldn't do what he seemed to say he would possibly do in this article?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: I don't think the FDA commissioner could step in--
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: --and obviate a decision--
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: --by the professional staff. And I don't think he can stop these trials early.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Gotcha. I want to ask you about schools. Schools in a number of states have seen some level of outbreak. Is it best practice to shut the school down or to just isolate those kids?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: It depends on the precautions that the school has been taking. If schools are doing a better job of trying to control infection within the school, children are wearing masks, they have children in defined cohorts so that if there is an infection in one class, they know that-- that class hasn't been exposed to other classes. It's just the children in that particular pod. I think they can make a reasonable decision just to maybe have children in one particular class go and get tested, stay home until they clear, until they test negative as opposed to closing down the entire school. And this really speaks to the importance of putting those precautions in place so that they can isolate affect-- infection more effectively. And a lot of schools are doing that. I think that's very prudent.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm. The CDC changed its guidance on testing. Why do you think they did it? Because the American Academy of Pediatrics says they object.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Well, look, I think it's unfortunate because I think that we should be testing asymptomatic people who might be at high risk of contracting the infection and what the new change in the guidance spoke to was the need not to test, purportedly not to test people who might have been exposed to the infection but haven't yet developed symptoms. We should be testing those people to make sure they haven't become infected and aren't asymptomatic carriers because we know that they can spread the infection. They're less likely to spread the infection, but they can still spread the infection. What I'm told by people on the inside is one of the reasons that drove this decision is that businesses were requiring people to test negative for infection before they can return to work. If that's the case and that was a concern, there were more targeted ways to address that and speak to that problem, as opposed to making this very broad, sweeping change in the recommendations, which I think could be misinterpreted by the general public and certainly by public health agencies within states. And so I don't think this-- this changed guidance is likely to be followed by many states. I think it's prudent that we test people who might be at high risk of contracting the infection.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Doctor Gottlieb, always good to talk to you. Thank you.
We'll be back in a moment.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We're all familiar with the public personalities of our sports heroes as we know them on the field, on the court, but the personal feelings of many athletes, black and white, came to light this week in the aftermath of the Jacob Blake shooting. We go now to CBS News special correspondent and host of NFL Today, James Brown. Good morning to you, JB. Great to have you here.
JAMES BROWN (CBS News Special Correspondent/@JBsportscaster/Host of NFL Today): Good morning. Good to be here, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I mean it seemed the entire sports world came to a halt this week, and as The New York Times put it, "No longer was sports offering gentrified protest with league-endorsed slogans on basketball jerseys. Calm collapsed in the face of the inevitably growing power of players to make more than a statement. They took action. It shattered the bubble-- bubble of normalcy." How are these athletes using their megaphones?
JAMES BROWN: Power that they've always had, but have been on the opposite end in terms of people pushing back, specifically owners and the powers that be. Look, I think the best way to do it is to synopsize the result of my conversations this past week with players, league executives and many others. One, the players feel that they're at a crossroads, Margaret, that this is a significant point in history. They don't get the impression that anything significant is being done as they point a finger at leadership in general around the country, that they're not serious about changes. So, therefore, the athletes feel the platform that they have is one that they should handle responsibly. And number two, that they have a moral obligation to represent the marginalized and to advocate strongly for that until they see serious change made. And, to me, very uniquely, it's across the spectrum with all sports, the WNBA, the NBA, the NFL, which has been doing some significant things through the players coalition, through the legislative process, et cetera, and as well as hockey. Talk about a cultural change. About thirty percent of the hockey players are American born, but the rest, they're foreign.
JAMES BROWN: So-- but they're on board showing solidarity.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So is the change that we heard announced from the NBA, this agreement to try to, you know, put up voting booths in-- in stadiums and in arenas, the announcement that they'll have some sort of social justice coalition, is that the kind of change that the players wanted? Or will we see these protests continue?
JAMES BROWN: The-- the former of what you're saying, and you may still see the latter because they want to see significant change. Look, it's often been articulated, work through the system. That's what the athletes are doing. And they're not just advocating things. These players are doing things. When you look at the likes of LeBron James, when you look at the likes of the young players in the NFL, Patrick Mahomes and others, they are putting their resources and their actions where their articulation has been. And that's significant. Look, I remember Michael Thomas in the NFL mentioning to me before that he comes from the Houston district and many of the people there who are suffering saying thank you for being a voice for us because we're not being listened to. You are. And he's been on Capitol Hill for two years now, working as an intern to learn how to work through the system. But he represents a number of athletes who are doing that. Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You know, James, from the players you talked to, do they feel like they're being forced into taking a stand here? Because what you're describing is sort of a passion project among some. But, you know, Charles Barkley this week said it is exhausting being black, especially when you're a celebrity. He said, "I love Tom Brady, but nobody asks him about what's going on in white America." Is this an unfair burden or is this something the players feel is a passion project?
JAMES BROWN: It is reality in terms of what Charles Barkley said. Look, this isn't a black problem only because the only way the path forward and the only solution is for it to be inclusive. There's no way-- look, for four hundred plus years, African-Americans have been trying to articulate, advocate, scream about what the issues are, but have fallen on deaf ears. This is a tectonic shift reminiscent of back during the civil rights movement, when the world saw those black women and girls coming from church in their Sunday's finest being beat over the head with billy clubs, fire hoses on them, dogs being released. You know this is a human problem. So, yes, it is inclusive. And many of these athletes feel the passion because they come from those communities and have been doing the work for years. A number of years ago I worked with the NBA, NFL Players Association, presenting humbly the J.B. Awards, athletes who were working meaningfully to strengthen the fabric of their communities. They've been doing the work, but everybody else needs to get on board now and follow that. And it's for the right reasons. Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: A tectonic shift. Thank you very much, JB.
JAMES BROWN: Yeah. Yes, Ma'am. Mm-Hm. Mm-Hm.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And I-- I want to tell all of our viewers that next Sunday, JB will be hosting a five-hour special about the courage of black athletes in the face of injustice. It's called Portraits in Black. It will be broadcast here on CBS at 1:00 P.M. eastern.
We'll be right back.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That's it for us today. Thank you for watching. And thanks to the entire FACE THE NATION team for all their hard work. For us this week I'm signing off, Margaret Brennan.  

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