ICE chief, immigration officials defend mass deportation campaign at House hearing

Rep. Al Green, a Texas Democrat, pointed out that Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem said shortly after Pretti's death that he was brandishing a firearm, a claim that was shown to be incorrect as more video of the shooting emerged. Green said that Noem was "violating this very basic principle" that officials should refrain from commenting until all the facts are known.

"The secretary, without an investigation, made these comments," Green said. "I'll tell you why — the secretary was in a rush to cover up. To ensure that she was protecting the officers, without regard for the life that was lost. And in doing this, she was violating not only this basic moral concept, she was breaking the law. The secretary should be investigated, right along with those officers who are out there engaged in this ungodly conduct."

"They should all be prosecuted," Green said. "I say, lock her up."

Rep. James Walkinshaw, a Democrat from Virginia, read portions of letters from children who are being held at an immigration detention center in Dilley, Texas. ProPublica obtained and published the letters on Monday.

"No child … should be used as pawns in Stephen Miller's sick and twisted great replacement agenda," he said.

Walkinshaw cited a legal agreement known as the Flores settlement agreement that limits the amount of time children can be held in detention to 20 days and pressed Lyons on how long he would hold minors.

"We wouldn't like to hold any children," Lyons said. "We would like to remove that family unit together safely and humanely, as quickly as possible."

Rep. Nellie Pou, a New Jersey Democrat whose district is hosting some World Cup matches, asked Lyons whether ICE will commit to pausing operations at the tournament this summer.

Lyons said ICE, and specifically Homeland Security Investigations, is a "key part of the overall security apparatus for the World Cup."

"We're dedicated to securing that operation and we're dedicated to the security of all the participants as well as visitors," Lyons said. 

"You realize that if they feel that they're going to be wrongfully incarcerated or wrongfully pulled out, that's going to hurt this entire process?" Pou said. "I hope you realize that."

Lyons replied, "Yes, ma'am, and ICE is dedicated to ensuring that everyone that visits the facilities will have a safe and secure event."

"Without these assurances, our local communities and national reputations will indeed be [harmed]," Pou said.

Democratic Rep. LaMonica McIver of New Jersey posed a series of questions to Lyons that appeared designed to probe how ICE's actions would align with his religious beliefs.

"Do you consider yourself a religious man?" she asked.

Lyons answered, "yes."

"How do you think Judgment Day will work for you with so much blood on your hands?" she then asked Lyons.

The ICE chief said he was "not going to entertain that question."

"Do you think you're going to hell?" McIver asked next.

Garbarino, the chairman, then interrupted and reminded members that they "must adhere to established standards of decorum and debate."

"While oversight is important, aggressively attacking those witnesses personally is inappropriate and not in keeping with the traditions of our committee," he said.

In response, McIver told Republicans that they're "always talking about religion here and the Bible. It's OK for me to ask a question, right?"

"How many government agencies are you aware of that routinely kill American citizens and still get funding?" she continued before calling for ICE to be abolished.

McIver was indicted last June on federal charges stemming from a clash with federal law enforcement officers outside an ICE detention facility in Newark. She has pleaded not guilty. McIver's lawyer said she and two other lawmakers were at the facility to inspect its conditions and accused the Justice Department of attempting to punish her for doing her job.

Kennedy asked Lyons a slew of questions, including whether Noem should resign. 

"The American people are angry, and they're demanding accountability and justice from those giving the orders," he said. "Mr. Lyons, do you believe, yes or no, that Secretary Noem should resign?"

Lyons responded, "I'm not going to comment on that, sir."

Kennedy said: "You're going to look the families of Renee Nicole Good and Alex Pretti in the eye and tell them Secretary Noem should keep her job, after their loved ones were killed?"

"Sir, the loss of any life is unacceptable," Lyons replied. "My heart, prayers and thoughts go out to anyone who's tragically losing his life. Especially a child, since I've suffered personal loss in my life. But I'm not going to comment on an ongoing investigation."

New York Democratic Rep. Timothy Kennedy echoed Goldman's criticisms of ICE for wearing masks during immigration raids.

"In America, we shouldn't have secret police. We shouldn't have masked government agents executing citizens in the streets," he said. "The Constitution does not give your agency the right to hide their faces while they kill Americans."

Kennedy asked Lyons if he would commit to "immediately unmasking every agent" who conducts enforcement operations and require them to wear standard uniforms with identifiable badges.

"No," Lyons said in response.

"That's a sad response. Your answer is completely unacceptable," Kennedy said. "People who are proud of what they do aren't hiding their identity."

Goldman next took aim at ICE's defense on the use of masks by its immigration officers during enforcement operations. The Department of Homeland Security has said ICE agents need to wear masks to protect themselves from threats, harassment and assaults.

But the New York Democrat called that justification "outright bogus," and said the use of masks helps agents escape accountability.

"You and your untrained, unqualified, unvetted, unidentified agents are intentionally terrorizing our cities and communities all over this country to avoid accountability for their excessive force and their lawless actions," he said. "That is why you're wearing masks, so no one can hold you accountable."

Goldman said Lyons needs to "rein in your out-of-control agency" and follow the law and the Constitution.

Rep. Dan Goldman, a New York Democrat, asked Lyons about guidance ICE agents receive regarding asking people to show proof of citizenship. The line of questioning prompted the most contentious exchange of the hearing so far.

Lyons said ICE conducts "targeted intelligence-driven operations, we don't walk around the streets asking people about their American citizenship." He said if ICE is conducting an investigation, they'll ask someone their nationality.

Goldman then questioned Lyons about regimes in the 20th century that have required proof of citizenship, and the two began speaking over each other over the implication of Goldman's question.

"To say that the men and women of ICE are gestapos is wrong," Lyons said. 

Goldman cited Lyons' opening statement, in which he said that references to ICE as the gestapo or secret police encourage threats against agents. Goldman added, "the problem is, you have it backwards, sir."

"People are simply making valid observations about your tactics, which are un-American and outright fascist," Goldman said. "So I have a simple suggestion: If you don't want to be called a fascist regime or secret police, then stop acting like one."

Rep. Seth Magaziner, a Democrat from Rhode Island, questioned Lyons about whether ICE has hired anyone who was charged with crimes stemming from the Jan. 6, 2021, assault on the U.S. Capitol.

"I don't have that information but I would say no," Lyons said, adding he would look into it.

Asked whether ICE would hire someone who attacked police on Jan. 6, even though they were pardoned by Mr. Trump, Lyons said, "we take assault on law enforcement very seriously."

Magaziner then showed videos of immigration agents deploying pepper spray and asked whether it was proper procedure to spray the substance into the window of a moving car.

"We try to avoid that," Scott said. 

He said agents may use the irritants as a deescalation tactic.

Gonzales advocated for the use of body cameras by federal immigration authorities, saying "transparency helps regain public trust."

Asked whether there were plans to release footage from body cameras worn by immigration agents in Minnesota, Lyons said it will be released.

"That's one thing that I'm committed to, is full transparency, and I fully welcome body cameras," he said.

Scott, meanwhile, urged Congress to ensure CBP has the resources it needs to support its body-worn camera program.

"Fund the entire program so that we can be transparent and we can make sure America knows what we're doing because that trust is critically important," he said.

Asked by Rep. Tony Gonzales of Texas about protections for immigration enforcement agents, CBP's Scott said the issue of threats against officers is widespread and needs to be addressed. 

"We have coordinated, well-funded, and I think insurgencies or terrorist organizations, however you want to call it, literally trying to prevent legal laws from being enforced in the United States," Scott said. "So we've got to figure out how to protect our officers and agents more holistically."

Scott referred to Lyons, saying "they follow his kid home and then have protests in his front yard and then put it out live on video — that needs to be a crime."

"I don't want to violate anybody's right to free speech, but going into your front yard and harassing your family just because you're a law enforcement officer, that should not be a protected action," he said.

Rep. August Pfluger, a Texas Republican, put the blame on Democrat-led sanctuary cities that don't assist with federal immigration enforcement. He said "that's why we're here today."

"I can't imagine being a DHS officer, an ICE officer, and being threatened with violence, having death threats, being doxxed, having your family identified, putting that on the internet and violently telling you that they are going to kill you because you are enforcing the laws that are on this books that were passed by both sides of the aisle in this body," Pflugar said. 

Lyons said ICE has seen an increase in death threats of more than 8,000%.

Pfluger asked Lyons how it made him feel when Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey used an expletive to demand ICE leave the city. 

"From a morale standpoint, it hurts us," Lyons said. "For decades, and I've worked since President Bush, ICE has always been in Minneapolis. We've always been in every major city and state. So it wasn't like it's a brand new thing, we've always been doing immigration enforcement. So that's demoralizing."

Rep. Shri Thanedar, a Democrat from Michigan, asked the panel of immigration officials whether they expect to receive a pardon from Mr. Trump before he leaves office at the end of his second term.

"I signed up for this job to protect America, and I'm very proud of the service that I provide," Scott said. "I don't need a pardon from anybody."

During an exchange with Democratic Rep. Lou Correa of California, Lyons repeatedly said that American citizens should not feel the need to carry a passport in the event they are approached by federal immigration authorities. 

"No American citizen will be arrested for being an American citizen," he said.

A December report from Democrats on a Senate subcommittee found instances of nearly two dozen American citizens who were detained by federal immigration agents between last June and November. An October report from the investigative news outlet ProPublica identified 170 cases where U.S. citizens were detained at raids and protests last year.

"What do we do for those people in that situation?" Correa said. "What do we tell them?"

Lyons said he did not know of any case of an American citizen being detained. He also rejected the claim that the government has a database for protesters.

"I can assure you there is no database that is tracking United States citizens," he said.

Swalwell pressed Lyons over whether he would stay on the job amid scrutiny of the agency he leads.

"Mr. Lyons, your staying on to lead ICE is a decision," Swalwell said.

"Since you've been on this job, women have been dragged by their hair through our streets. A 6-year-old child battling stage-four cancer has been deported … People who've gone to the streets as allies have been shot and publicly executed," Swalwell said. "It's a decision to stay on at this point."

Swalwell said: "Considering your honorable service in the past, and the dishonorable acts that those who have worked for you have conducted, and the disgraceful statements that the leadership above you have said — you now have a decision."

"Will you stand with the kids who you're supposed to protect, or will you side with the killers bringing terror to our streets?" Swalwell said. "Mr. Lyons, will you resign from ICE?"

Lyons replied, "No, sir, I won't."

"Why not?" Swalwell asked. 

"Becuase, sir, that child that you're showing right there, the men and women of ICE took care of him when his father abandoned him and ran from law enforcement," Lyons said, referring to a photo of Liam Ramos behind Swalwell. 

Rep. Eric Swalwell, a Democrat from California, pressed Lyons about statements from Mr. Trump and Noem claiming Pretti and Good were engaged in acts of domestic terrorism when they were shot and killed by immigration officers.

Lyons declined to apologize to the families during the public hearing but said he welcomed the opportunity to speak with Good's family in private.

"The president and Secretary Noem are elected officials," he said. "That's their right to their comments."

But Lyons said as career law enforcement, he cannot comment on an active investigation. 

Rep. Michael McCaul, a Texas Republican, questioned Lyons about the situation in Minneapolis. McCaul lauded the work of White House border czar Tom Homan in coordinating with local and state officials, emphasizing "targeted law enforcement operations" and a return "to the original mission of ICE."

McCaul asked Lyons about the impact on the operation in Minneapolis and whether Homan's actions are "bringing the situation under control."

Lyons said "we've seen a deescalation in the fact that the protests — while they still go on — have subsided, and ICE has been allowed to do their targeted, intelligence-driven enforcement operation."

"Just the other night, local authorities arrested 54 protesters at the local level where ICE officers did not have to be engaged in that," Lyons added. 

Thompson raised President Trump's comments about the midterm elections and the need for Republicans to federalize elections. The Mississippi Democrat asked Scott and Lyons whether they have been involved in any planning regarding the use of immigration authorities to guard voting precincts in November.

Both said they have not been involved in any planning of that sort.

Asked by Thompson about body cameras, Lyons said more than 3,000 ICE officers who are active in the field have cameras, out of approximately 13,000. He said another 6,000 are being deployed.

Scott said he didn't have the precise figure, but estimated that about 10,000 Border Patrol agents, out of about 20,000, also have body cameras and added "we're building that program out while we speak."

Asked by Garbarino about the training for new immigration officers since the hiring surge, Lyons said the "meat of the training" remains the same, but the timeline has been condensed.

For new ICE officers, Lyons said their training used to be five days per week, eight hours each day. Today, it is six days each week for 12 hours each day, he said.

Scott said there has been no change in training at Customs and Border Protection. Border Patrol agents attend a 117-day academy, while other CPB officers must undergo a 103-day training, he said.

Scott added that quarterly training now includes scenarios for what agents will encounter in the field.

Garbarino asked for a commitment from the ICE and CBP leaders to give the committee the full investigation reports and findings of the probes into Good and Pretti's shootings once they're concluded. Lyons and Scott agreed. 

The committee chairman also asked about each agency's standard operating procedures for investigations when deadly force is used. The ICE and CBP leaders said the procedures are being followed. 

Todd Lyons, who leads Immigration and Customs Enforcement, told lawmakers in his opening remarks that in the last year, his agency conducted more than 475,000 removals. He said in a written statement that because of funding provided by Congress, the agency is boosting detention capacity and removal flights daily.

"The president tasked us with mass deportations, and we are fulfilling that mandate," he said in opening testimony.

Lyons said that in the first year of the second Trump administration, ICE conducted nearly 379,000 arrests. Among those were more than 7,000 suspected gang members and 1,400 known or suspected terrorists, he said. CBS News reported on Monday that less than 14% of those arrested by ICE in the past year had charges or convictions for violent criminal offenses, according to an internal DHS document.

Lyons also condemned rhetoric from public officials against ICE, saying it has "fomented violence against dedicated American patriots defending our homeland, and this must stop."

"We are facing the deadliest operating environment in our agency's history," he told lawmakers. 

Lyons also highlighted ICE's increased manpower, telling lawmakers that the agency has hired more than 12,000 officers and agents in less than a year. More than 220,000 people applied to work at ICE, he said.

Rodney Scott, the CBP commissioner, said in his testimony that officers are "increasingly" facing situations where "agitators" interfere with law enforcement action. CBP oversees Border Patrol, which has been involved in some of the most high-profile immigration operations.

"These situations are unprecedented in scale and intensity," he said in his testimony. "The current operational environment puts our officers, agents, and even their families, at tremendous personal risk of violence."

Scott told lawmakers during brief opening remarks that the attacks are "coordinated and well-funded."

"This is not peaceful protest," he said.

In his written statement, Scott also highlighted the surge in hiring that the agency has experienced in the past year: monthly averages show an 84% increase in new Border Patrol hires compared to the prior year, according to his opening statement.

Scott said the One Big Beautiful Bill Act funds 5,000 more CBP officers, 3,000 Border Patrol agents and 200 air and marine agents, but also includes money for recruitment and retention.

Rep. Bennie Thompson, the top Democrat on the committee, lambasted the second Trump administration, saying it's "out of control" and has been "running roughshod over Americans' rights, killing U.S. citizens and threatening our very democracy."

"The disease rotting the Trump administration from the inside out started at the top and has infected every part of the executive branch," he said. "Nowhere is that more evident than at the Department of Homeland Security."

Thompson, of Mississippi, accused the Trump administration of deliberately thwarting an investigation into the killing of Renee Good in Minnesota last month. He said the blocking of a probe into the government's use of force against an American citizen is a sign of a dictatorship, not a democracy.

"Every American should be outraged," he said.

Thompson also criticized DHS — and Lyons, specifically — for rebuffing invitations to testify before lawmakers. That changed, however, after the shooting death of Alex Pretti last month. 

"This is part of a pattern of the Trump administration's refusal to comply with regular congressional oversight," he said.

Thompson denounced Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem and accused her of gaslighting the public by making up a "demonstrably false story" about Pretti. He said she has "enriched herself, abused the power of her office, obstructed congressional oversight and violated her oath to the Constitution."

"Secretary Noem's Department of Homeland Security has the blood of American citizens on its hands, but she takes no responsibility for anything," Thompson said. 

He said Noem is a "liar" who should no longer hold her role.

The committee's chairman, Andrew Garbarino, gaveled in the hearing shortly after 10 a.m., reminding members and the public about proper decorum as the testimony gets underway.

"Today's hearing provides the American people the ability to hear directly from the leaders that enforce our nation's immigration laws," Garbarino said. "Informing Congress and the public is not casting accusations, nor is it a punishment. Congress has a duty to hear directly from the executive branch, a duty I take seriously."

Garbarino said "while this hearing was long planned, we sit here today at an inflection point — an opportunity to assess and reinforce the integrity of immigration enforcement and to strengthen public trust."

"An opportunity to emphasize and underscore the Department of Homeland Security's no-fail mission as a whole," he added.

The New York Republican cited the DHS funding fight, stressing that "shutting down DHS makes America less safe."

"The Department of Homeland Security is the nation's largest federal law enforcement agency. It is this committee's duty, regardless of administration, to conduct oversight," he said. "We need to examine how DHS components are enforcing the law and ensure they have the resources in place to do work safely, effectively and properly."

Garbarino praised the Trump administration's efforts to combat illegal immigration, but he said "the credibility of these successes is on the line."

"We must take the temperature down and look at the record of enforcement actions through rational eyes," he said.

The committee initially sought testimony from the leaders of ICE, CBP and USCIS on Jan. 15. But after Pretti's killing on Jan. 24, the committee chairman, Rep. Andrew Garbarino of New York, wrote to the leaders "formally memorializing this previous invitation."

Garbarino said in a statement at the time that his "top priority remains keeping Americans safe and ensuring the Department of Homeland Security can accomplish its core mission."

"I take my oversight duties for the department seriously, and Congress has an important responsibility to ensure the safety of law enforcement and the people they serve and protect," he said. "I am committed to ensuring ICE, CBP, and USCIS are effectively using the historic resources provided through reconciliation to strengthen public safety, and I look forward to each of these agencies testifying before the Committee."

Three days later, Garbarino announced that the three leaders had agreed to testify.

"Transparency and communication are needed to turn the temperature down," Garbarino said. "Thank you to Secretary Noem and the Department of Homeland Security for making these witnesses available, and I look forward to receiving their testimony."

Lyons, Scott and Edlow are also set to testify before the Senate Homeland Security Committee on Thursday. Noem herself is expected to testify before Congress in March. 

GOP Rep. Tony Gonzales of Texas, who sits on the committee, told "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" on Sunday that he wants to hear from the leaders of the immigration enforcement agencies about their efforts to work with local and state officials. 

"What happened in Minneapolis, nobody in this country should want," Gonzales said. "We should all strive not to be Minneapolis. We don't want to see local communities not work with federal government."

Gonzales said he wants to know what the leaders are doing to "work with others within the community" so it's not "ICE going it alone."

"It shouldn't be that way," Gonzales said.

The Texas Republican said the administration has been trying to facilitate cooperation, but he pointed the blame at local government officials. 

"The problem is, you've got so many local municipalities that don't want to work together, and when that happens, your city burns," he said. "We don't want Los Angeles, we shouldn't want Minneapolis. People can protest. People can be able to say, 'Hey, we won't agree with certain policy,' but there needs to be more collaboration at the local, state and federal level."

Tuesday's hearing comes as Congress has been grappling with how to fund DHS, given intense opposition from Democrats following the events in Minneapolis.

Congress has until Saturday to fund DHS. Lawmakers approved a stopgap measure to keep the department funded for two weeks while funding the rest of the government through September. The funding patch was designed to give lawmakers more time to negotiate on immigration enforcement reforms. But despite some common ground between Democrats and Republicans on issues like mandating body cameras be worn and bringing an end to roving patrols, an agreement has remained elusive. 

Senate Democrats have submitted draft legislation of a DHS funding measure to Republicans, which reflects a proposal they outlined last week. On Monday, Democratic leaders called a counterproposal from the White House "incomplete and insufficient."