MAJOR GARRETT:
00:01:35
And what about buy now, pay later loans? That sounds like a dire behavioral adaptation. Yeah, when that program was introduced, buy now, pay later, the idea was that you would buy maybe a dress or something or a couch. You had the money coming, and it was you want to break the payments up. But when you use that for groceries and it's an ongoing thing-- because then you take out one loan, and then you take out another, and it's compounded. That's when it really becomes a problem. And, listen, quite a few people, more than 5%, are using payday loans to buy their groceries. So this says what the Urban Institute is concerned about and what we all should be concerned about is that there is a great deal of Americans who are struggling so much that they have to buy their groceries on credit. And we understand paying for your car repair on credit, but grocery, consumable goods like that, it just is a recipe for disaster for the future because if your money is obligated to these credit payments, that means you can't save. That means if you lose your job, now you don't have any income, and you have this debt. That is why it's a problem when you look down the road because it prevents them from doing things. And we know that in order for this economy to continue to grow, we need people to be free of debt and the ability to buy things and pay them off and save to send their kids to college or save for retirement. But if we've got a great number of Americans who can't even buy food without putting it on debt, that should concern us all. So there are a lot of debates last year, Michelle-- I know you remember them-- about the so-called big, beautiful bill. One of them was about Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, SNAP, what we used to think of as food-stamp benefits. Republicans said they were tightening up regulations to attack waste, fraud, and abuse. Critics said no, no, that's going to have real-world ramifications. More people are going to lose benefits, and that's going to show up statistically later. Has it? It definitely has. We see millions of people. And so they said, OK, all we're going to ask them is to make sure you put in this paperwork, but anybody who's worked with real people know the more onus you put on them with all this paperwork, they're going to fall off, and that is exactly what happened. People are losing their benefits. Millions of children are losing the program, and they're being kicked off through their parents, of course. And so it is having a real-world impact on the ability of families to feed themselves. And it was designed that way. They wanted to get people off of those rolls. But the thing about it is it was there to help people when they're having a tough time. And many people aren't on there for years and years and years. They had a job loss, or they got sick, and they need some help. I've worked with people who, particularly during the Great Recession, lost their job and had to get SNAP benefits. And as soon as they were able, they came off of that. Why put in rules that make it more difficult for people to feed themselves? I mean, nobody wants to be on these benefits if they don't have to. So if they are applying, that means that they need the money. And when we do these kinds of things in a vacuum, they're not really thinking about the end user, the parents and the children in particular. We should not have children in America going hungry, and that is one of the fallouts of that big-- I would say big, awful bill that was passed last summer. And what advice, quickly, Michelle, would you give to those who are thinking about whether they should or shouldn't use some of these things, either buy now, pay later programs or credit cards? That's such a tough question. And I serve in my community. I run a program at my church. And so I always have a hard time answering that question because people do what they have to do. But if you can, please don't put that on credit. Use food banks. Hopefully, you're part of a community where you can find resources. Like my church has a food bank where they give out groceries to people. Look around for programs in which you can utilize. And I'm going to say this to other people who are listening. If you know people in your sphere, your influence or your church or your community, and you know they're struggling, help them with some groceries. Just buy a grocery card and give it to them. I think to whom much is given, much is required. So rather than putting the onus on people who are struggling to say, hey, don't use that credit card. Bad you. I want to appeal to people who are listening to reach out. Give more to the food banks. Give more to nonprofits that are helping feed people who need the money to buy groceries for themselves. I think that's the advice I would give. Give more if you are in the position to do it, if you can afford it. I know my husband and I do that, and I would encourage other people to do that so that families don't have to put their groceries on their credit card.
