Text Of Clinton Testimony (12)

This is part 12 of President Clinton's grand jury testimony:

PRESIDENT CLINTON: That's --

MR. KENDALL: I'm going to caution the witness that this question should not invade the sphere of the attorney/client privilege, and any conversations with counsel are privileged.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Let me say, and maybe, Mr. Kendall, we need a break here. I'm not trying -- I'm trying to avoid invading the lawyer/client privilege.

I can just tell you that I did, I did the best I could to comply with this. And eventually we did make, of course, all of this public. And it was damaging to Ms. Willey and her credibility. It was terribly damaging to her. And the first time she came out with this story, I didn't do it. I only did it when they went back on 60 Minutes and they made this big deal of it.

It turned out she had tried to sell this story and make all this money. And, I must say, when I saw how many letters and phone calls and messages there were that totally undercut her account, I, myself, was surprised.

OIC ATTORNEY: But you knew there were letters?

PRESIDENT CLINTON: I did, sir.

OIC ATTORNEY: And the White House --

PRESIDENT CLINTON: I knew that --

OIC ATTORNEY: -- is under your control, isn't it, Mr. President?

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, Mr. Bennett, again, I'm not trying to be -- some days I think it's under my control and some days I'm not so sure.

But, if you're asking me, as a matter of law, I don't want to discuss that because that's -- I mean, I'll be glad to discuss it, but I'm not the person who should make that decision. That decision should be made by someone who can give me appropriate advice, and I don't want to violate the lawyer/client privilege here.

OIC ATTORNEY: Well, Mr. President, how are the letters from Kathleen Willey that surfaced after the 60 Minutes episode aired any different from the correspondence and other matters, tangible items, tangible things, of Monica Lewinsky?

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, the items you asked for from Monica Lewinsky that I produced to you, you now that there was a tie, a coffee cup, a number of other things I had. Then I told you there were some things that had been in my possession that I no longer had, I believe. I don't remember if I did that. There was one book, I remember, that I left on vacation last summer.

OIC ATTORNEY: The same documents that the Jones litigants had asked you for?

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Yes. But, at any rate, they were different. They were in my -- the gifts were in my personal possession, clearly.

OIC ATTORNEY: In your office at the Oval?

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, in the books, now, the Presidential books were with my other books that belong to me personally. They were in the Oval.

OIC ATTORNEY: Where do you draw the line, sir, between personal and White House. Now, you are talking about soe documents that are in the Oval Office and we don't see where you are drawing the line.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, Mr. Bennett, I don't think these -- I think the Lewinsky gifts were all non-documents. And you can --

MR. KENDALL: Is that the time?

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Just a moment.

MR. KENDALL: Excuse me, Mr. Bennett.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, I'd like to --

MR. KENDALL: You've got thirty more seconds.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: -- finish answering the question, please, because this is a legitimate question, I think.

There is somebody in the White House, Mr. Bennett, who can answer your question, and you could call them up and they could answer it, under oath, for you. There is some way of desegregating what papers are personal to the president and what papers are part of the White House official archives papers. And I don't know how the distinction is made. I just don't know.

BY MR. BENNETT:

OIC ATTORNEY: Did you direct personnel, Nancy Hernreich or anyone else, to make a search for correspondence from Kathleen Willey and Monica Lewinsky when those documents were called for in the Jones litigation, sir? Did you direct that somebody on the White House staff look for those documents?

PRESIDENT CLINTON: I don't believe that I was in charge of doing that, the document search, sir. So, the strict answer to that question is that I didn't.

OIC ATTORNEY: So, you sat back and relied on this legalistic distinction between your personal, which you are in control of, and the White House which, by the way, you are also in control of; is that not correct?

MR. KENDALL: I won't object to the argumentative form of the question. We'll allow the witness to answer it. We're now over time, even the 30 seconds. So, this will be it.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Mr. Bennett, I haven't said this all day long, but I would like to say it now.

Most of my time and energy in the last five and a half years have been devoted to my job. Now, during that five and a half years, I have also had to contend with things no previous president has ever had to contend with: a lawsuit that was dismissed for lack of legal merit, but that cost me a fortune and was designed to embarrass me; this independent counsel inquiry, which has gone on a very long time and cost a great deal of money, and about which serious questions have been raised; and a number of other things.

And, during this whole time, I have tried as best I could to keep my mind on the job the American people gave me. I did not make the legal judgment about how the documents were decided upon that should be given to the Jones lawyers, and ones that shouldn't.

And, I might add that Ms. Willey would have been very happy that these papers were not turned over, because they damaged her credibility so much, had they not ultimately been turned over after she made, I think, he grievous error of going on 60 Minutes and saying all those things that were not true.

But I did not make the decision. It was not my job. This thing is being managed by other people. I was trying to do my job.

OIC ATTORNEY: Mr. President, the grand jury, I am notified, still has unanswered questions of you, and we appeal to you again to make yourself available to answer those questions.

MR. KENDALL: Mr. Bennett, our agreement was for four hours and we have not counted the break time against that, and I think that will be --

PRESIDENT CLINTON: You know, Mr. Bennett, I wish I could do it. I wish the grand jurors had been allowed to come here today as we invited them to do. I wanted them down here. I wanted them to be able to see me directly. I wanted them to be able to ask these questions directly. But, we made an agreement that was different, and I think I will go ahead and stick with the terms of it.

BY MR. BENNETT:

OIC ATTORNEY: The invitation was made after there was political fallout over the deposition circumstances with the satellite transmission and the taping. Isn't that so?

PRESIDENT CLINTON: I don't know about the taping, Mr. Bennett. I understood that the prospect of the grand jurors coming down here was raised fairly early. I don't know.

OIC ATTORNEY: Just for the record --

PRESIDENT CLINTON: But, anyway, I wish they could have. I respect the grand jury. I respect the --

MR. WISENBERG: Just for the record, the invitation to the grand jury was contingent upon us not videotaping, and we had to videotape because we have an absent grand juror.

MR. KENDALL: Is that the only reason, Mr. Wisenberg, you have to videotape?

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, yes. Do you want to answer that?

MR. BITTMAN: Thank you, Mr. President.

END OF TESTIMONY