Face the Nation Transcripts September 21: Power, Rogers, Feinstein

(CBS News) -- Below is a transcript of the September 21 edition of Face the Nation. Guests included: James Brown, Samantha Power, Mike Rogers, Dianne Feinstein, Jane Harman, Joe Liberman, Mike Morell, Robert Kagan, Dr. Bill Shaffner, Dr. Jon LaPook.

BOB SCHIEFFER: I'm Bob Schieffer and today on Face the Nation, the President tries to muster a coalition to fight ISIS and the NFL Commissioner says he's sorry...again SOT GOODELL: I GOT IT WRONG IN THE HANDLING OF THE RAY RICE MATTER. AND I'M SORRY FOR THAT. BOB SCHIEFFER: We'll talk about the domestic violence crisis in the NFL then we'll examine the President's plan for war on ISIS and the divide between the military and the President on the need for ground troops. Plus in another embarrassment for the Secret Service: a man jumps the fence and actually gets in to the White House--through the front door. We'll talk to Intelligence Committee Chairs Senator Dianne Feinstein and Congressman Mike Rogers, then turn to an all-star panel of experts for analysis. And on the eve of the annual United Nations meeting in New York, we'll check in with UN Ambassador Samantha Power and get an update on the efforts to fight the Ebola epidemic. 60 years of news because this is Face the Nation. And good morning again, we're gonna start with the story that just will not go away - the crisis in the NFL. Roger Goodell promises reforms in the league on domestic violence so far he's short on specifics. The Baltimore Ravens say they'll hold a news conference Monday to formerly respond to an ESPN report that they knew the details of what Ray Rice did but successfully lobbied the NFL for leniency. And a shocking report that has gone all but unnoticed: the league says that nearly one in three NFL players will develop debilitating brain conditions. The anchor of the NFL Today and CBS News Special Correspondent James Brown has been on this story all week. And JB, we start, as I understand it, with the Baltimore Ravens now saying that this report on ESPN contains numerous errors in accuracies, false assumptions, and perhaps misunderstanding. I know you have been talking to people in the Ravens organization. You've been talking to them all week. What can you tell us about this? JAMES BROWN: And Bob, including the owner, Steve Bisciotti, with whom I talked two Thursdays ago before our Thursday night broadcast, that which has been reported on in the Outside the Lines report by ESPN is nothing different than what I covered in my conversations, a wide-ranging one, with Steve Bisciotti.

And with respect to the text messages specifically that the report talked about, I asked Steve Bisciotti about that. He acknowledged and was very forthright that he had sent two text messages to Ray and shared the contents of.

In terms of whether people wanna see that as him trying to buy Ray Rice's silence, I don't necessarily see it that way. I thought that Mr. Bisciotti was very forthcoming in what he had been offering onto Ray in terms of support of the organization and potentially a job afterwards which is not different than what he's done with the previous player, Dante Stallworth was an ex-NFL player who unfortunately was inebriated and involved in a car accident that killed an innocent person as well.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, are we gonna get anything more specific? I mean, you know, Ray McDonald, of the 49ers charged with felony assault on his pregnant wife, he's gonna be in the starting lineup today.

JAMES BROWN: Which is exactly why I guess a policy needs to come from the top down and not leave the individual 32 teams with determining what that should be. Bob, I think there is consensus that if a player is accused of domestic violence then until the facts are in that player ought to be sat down with pay.

If in fact the player is convicted of the charge then they ought to face some type of stiff penalty, whatever that is, six games, a year, without pay. It's as simple as that. But those are things that we'll be collectively bargaining. I know a lot of people wanted to see and hear a lot more specifics from the commissioner. But again, there's an investigation as you well know that's gonna be conducted by Bob Miller, the former F.B.I. director. And the commissioner has said, "Everything is on the table in terms of what will be done once all the facts are in." And quite frankly, a number of players want to see that the commissioner be subjected to some type of fine and/or suspension because that's exactly the kind of standard that he's held the players to.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right, well, Jamie, keep us posted. We'll let you get onto your business with the NFL today. And we'll see you later during the broadcast day. Thanks a lot.

JAMES BROWN: Good talking to you, Bob.

BOB SCHIEFFER: World leaders are gathering in New York this week for the annual United Nations conference, and U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power joins us from New York. Ambassador, welcome. Let me just start right in here. U.S. officials, according to the Wall Street Journal, say it is important for other nations to join the United States in launching air strikes into Syria. So I guess my question is: do you have any indication yet that other nations will be willing to do that?

SAMANTHA POWER: We do, Bob. But we're going to leave it to other nations to announce for themselves what their specific commitments to the coalition are going to be. Secretary Kerry chaired a meeting of the Security Council here on Friday in New York, and more than 40 countries spoke in support of our efforts, including France, which announced that it had just conducted air strikes in Iraq against ISIL for the first time; Saudi Arabia, which described the training facility that its providing for Syria's moderate opposition; And a whole host of other commitments, including Germany, which has broken with tradition in order to provide weapons and military equipment to the Iraqis and the Kurds. So it's a multifaceted approach, as you know, with a whole host of aspects to it. But the combat role is very important, of course.

BOB SCHIEFFER: I just want to make sure I heard you right; because I think you made a little news here. You do have word that other nations are going to join us on conducting air strikes into Syria...

SAMANTHA POWER: Well as you know Bob, the President has said we're not going to allow ISIL to have a safe haven in Syria, but no decisions have been made in terms of how we're going to proceed in that. In terms of the broader anti-ISIL coalition, we do indeed have the support along the lines that I described. BOB SCHIEFFER: And ground troops -- what commitments are there for ground troops to join in this?

SAMANTHA POWER: I think the most important commitments are the commitments of the Iraqis, the Kurds, and the Syrian Moderate Opposition, which has been fighting ISIL for nearly a year, and has been appealing for outside help. And now that Congress has approved overwhelmingly and in a very bipartisan way the Train and Equip package, that help is on the way for the Moderate Opposition. So local forces are always going to be your best bet fighting ISIL in a country that of course belongs to the Iraqis, the Kurds, and in the case of Syria, the Syrians.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Secretary Kerry said last week in New York that every country has a part in this, including Iran. What exactly is Iran's part?

SAMANTHA POWER: Well let me stress that we are not coordinating military operations or sharing intelligence with Iran. I think what the Secretary meant was that Iran has made clear that it too views ISIL as an enemy and as a threat. And so in that respect, all of our operations are oriented around the objective of degrading and destroying ISIL, and we're waiting to hear whether Iran thinks it has a constructive role to play. But I would note that Iran's behavior and its actions in Syria have been very destructive from our perspective, supporting Hezbollah, supporting the Assad regime, which itself has both been complicit with ISIL, not exhibiting any energy or intensity in going after ISIL, spending much more time going after civilian neighborhoods and the moderate opposition than going after such a profound, monstrous terrorist threat. And that they have received the full support of Iran, as you know, throughout this conflict. So that -- those actions would have to change, really, if we're going to deal with ISIL in a comprehensive way. Assad is not somebody who can be relied upon in a -- as a partner in the effort against ISIL.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Ambassador, let me ask you this question, because a lot of people in Washington -- it's bothering them. Why does the President continue to stress what we're not going to do? No ground troops, no shock and awe -- instead of stressing what we are going to do? Is that -- is he boxing himself in here, in an effort to assure people we're not going to launch another war like we've already had in Iraq?

SAMANTHA POWER: Well, I think what's he doing is describing the contours of the campaign that he has worked out with his Cabinet and most important with Chairman Dempsey, Secretary Hagel, and his military advisers. So I guess I disagree with the premise -- I think he's been very clear that we're going to use our unique capabilities with -- through air operations to support the ground operations by the Iraqis and the Kurds. We are going to mobilize counter-financing, we are going to promote countering violent extremism programs in communities, working with countries all around the world. You know, there are a lot of different aspects to this strategy that he spoken to, and when he comes to New York on Wednesday, he'll be convening a Head of State Summit with the Security Council -- a very rare thing in the history of the UN Security Council -- where new obligations are created on states to stop the stem of foreign terrorist fighters to conflict areas like that in Iraq and Syria.

BOB SCHIEFFER: But I guess the question that a lot of the critics have is: isn't he kind of watering down his message to the terrorists when he says we're not going to do this, and we're not going to do that...do you think that causes them not to take seriously what the United States is planning to do here?

SAMANTHA POWER: Well, given the string of military defeats that ISIL has suffered since the United States got involved in Iraq, I would assume that ISIL is taking the United States very, very seriously as they are now on their heels in a way that they were not before the U.S. got involved. But the other thing I would say, Bob, is that the strategy that the President has laid out has the overwhelming support of the American people, even after ten years of war. So I think we are presenting the strategy in a manner that the American people understand is in our interests. They understand the national security imperative of taking on ISIL. They understand that other countries have to be a part of that and we have to build a coalition. So I think the message is coming across loud and clear.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Madame Secretary -- or Madame Ambassador, I should say, we thank you so much for being with us this morning. Hope you'll come back.

SAMANTHA POWER: I really appreciate you having me, thank you. Absolutely. BOB SCHIEFFER: And to talk about all of that the two chairs of the intelligence committees are here with us this morning. It's rare for a Republican and a Democrat to appear together anymore in Washington which is just another sign of the partisan divide that two are willing to do that. California Senator Dianne Feinstein, she's in San Francisco, Michigan Congressman Mike Rogers, here in the studio. They chair the two intelligence committees.

And Senator Feinstein, I want to ask you about what Samantha Powers just been talking about. But first I have to ask you about this situation we have now, this thing that's blown up in the NFL. One of the players for the 49ers, your hometown team, Ray McDonald, charged with felony assault on his wife. Yet, he will be in the starting lineup out there today. How do you feel about all this and what's happening in the NFL?

DIANNE FEINSTEIN: Well, I think I can speak for all the women in the Senate by saying we're surprised, amazed, and very resolute to do something about it. Having said that, I'm an old 49ers fan. I remember the glory days of the '9ers when I was there at five Super Bowls. Terrific team. What's happened, excuse me, is a dramatic growth in violence. And I think if you combine violence with alcohol and a social setting you get a very unpredictable result. I think there is no place for this, period. I believe very strongly that if a player was arrested they should be suspended.

And if they are convicted that ends, I know they're contracts. But this has gone on too long. It is getting too bad. And these teams have to set an example for the rest of society. Football is a major sport. The NFL is a great league. I've known Pete Rozelle, I know Roger Goodell a little bit. But there has to be a strength in the league. And they have to project the values of what's right and what's wrong. And to let players continue to play after they've been convicted of what would be a felony I think is a huge mistake.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, Mike Rogers, I want to ask you about something that happened here in Washington last night. We keep talking about national security. A guy jumps the White House gate and actually gets into the White House before he's arrested. The president and the family were not there and all of that. But what needs to be done here?

MIKE ROGERS: Well, again, one of the biggest problems in a static security force is atrophy of concern. And I think what you have seen is that they're not doing their audits, their checks, test runs to make sure that people are up to the right standard.

We see this a lot. It happens frequently in other places where there are static security forces. And it's just a matter of the Secret Service upping their game to make sure that they can maintain that every detail matters. A door locked, a quick reaction when somebody hits the fence and over the gate. I think they're going to have reinstate some of these ongoing checks about what activities they participate in. And I'm talking about their self-audits on their security.

BOB SCHIEFFER: The New York Times reports today that a Syrian terror group called Khorasan is more of a direct threat to United States and Europe than ISIS. You have talked about this Congressman Rogers. But it's not gotten much attention I must say. I'd like to ask both of you all of a sudden now, you know, ISIS and all of a sudden we're hearing there's something worse down the line. MIKE ROGERS: Yeah. Well, first of all, Al Qaeda always has been on down an immediate path of conducting western attacks. We shouldn't forget it. What happened with ISIS, and I disagree with the assumption that it's less. It's different. That's more immediate this group that you Khorasan group. We described it as a deployed Al Qaeda operatives who were engaging with Al Qaeda and the Arabian Peninsula to develop a terror plot to bring down airplanes. They haven't lost that interest in doing it.

That means it's serious. They have both capability, financing, and people. All of that's dangerous. But if you step back so does ISIS, except they had something different. They have access to people with western passports. Well, al-Nusra, this group of Al Qaeda individuals, and al-Nusra's an Al Qaeda group in Syria, we believe has access to some of those same individuals. That's why we're so concerned about the possibility of them pulling off a successful attack and why we've re-tripled our efforts, if you will.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Senator Feinstein, do you share Chairman Rogers' concern about this group?

DIANNE FEINSTEIN: I do. I do. And I think there're essentially three major groups that would affect our national security, affect our homeland. Of course one of them is ISIS, another is AQAP coming out of Yemen that has a bomb that goes through magnetometers, has tried to get four of those on different occasions into our country. And there is ISIL.

Each one of these is capable one day, some sooner than later, of a strike against our country. So this is not a good situation. With ISIL, in my view at least, it's a little more complicated. This aims to be a country, a calisaya (PH). It has a third of Syria already, it's occupied some 14, 15 cities in Iraq. It beheads children. I have a picture of what I estimate to be a six-year-old girl in a gingham party dress, white tights, a little red band around her wrist, Mary Janes. And she's lying on the ground and her head is gone. This could be an American child; it could be a European child. It could be a child anywhere. And this is the mentality of the group that we are so concerned with. They have killed thousands. They are marching on. They have an army. They're well-organized. Many of us believe they're aimed at Baghdad, perhaps our embassy there. And who knows what else?

(OVERTALK)

DIANNE FEINSTEIN: So the question I think comes what kind of authorization of use of force we give the president? And when we go back after the election that has to be a major point of debate.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, let me ask you this then the president keeps stressing there'll be no ground troops involved in this. You heard me talking to Samantha Power about this very thing. Is the president boxing himself in here by stressing what we're not going to do? Should he be talking more about what we may have to do and that we have to do what's necessary here?

DIANNE FEINSTEIN: Well, the president, excuse me, has a strategy. That strategy I think had something was very special, that is a majority of Republicans and a majority of the Senate supporting him. And that's the first time I think this has happened in a long time. So it is something very special.

I think it states a strategy. Now strategies develop. I understand what General Mattis and General Dempsey has said. But I think we need to deal with use of force in the general nature and an amendment perhaps to the authorization to use military force, perhaps in something separate, that deals with non-state actors who are real threats to our country and who are creating massive violence throughout the world. ISIS is a problem because it has access to Europe. So many fighters for Europe and visa-waiver countries where they can go back and be waived into our country. That's part of the concern about ISIS.

(OVERTALK)

DIANNE FEINSTEIN: But I think we need to deal with this on a more comprehensive basis.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, Congressman Rogers, does that mean that Congress should tell the president, "Look, if you need to use ground troops we're ready to back you on that. We need to do whatever needs to be done here."

MIKE ROGERS: Well, we need to be start talking about a plan to defeat ISIS. We probably shouldn't lay out our battle plans. But we shouldn't take anything off of our battle plans. And what you're seeing now I think is a frustration. Frustration on a military perspective saying, "Please don't limit us on what we need to do to defeat this terrorist group."

Think about where we are. Egypt Sisi just said that he would be interesting in helping on ISIS. This is huge. This is an important development. But a few years ago he said, "Give me the equipment, Mr. President so that I can push back on terrorist in the Sinai." He said no, the terrorists said yes. He's got a fight on his hand.

The Arab League Partners came to us a couple years ago and said, "Mr. President, we need some help on fighting extremists in Eastern Syria." The president said no. The terrorists said yes. Now they hold land about the size of Indiana in Eastern Syria, in Iraq.

Poroshenko came to the United States of America, gave a inspirational speech about standing up for liberty. Used our revolutionary motto, "Live free or die." The president said no, the Russians said yes. And so we've got to change this. We've got to get everybody at the table to agree with Dianne Feinstein. We need to deal with this comprehensive. Stop saying no, start saying yes, let's get this taken care of.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Mike Rogers, Dianne Feinstein, thank you both very much. And we'll be back.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK] BOB SCHIEFFER: As I watched the documentary on PBS this week about Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt and their cousin Teddy, I couldn't help but think about what set them apart from today's politicians. Yes, they were very smart but there are still a lot of smart people in Washington. Yes, they saw wrongs that needed to be corrected. But we still have those with good hearts, and yes they were good politicians but we still have a few good politicians around here. What set them apart to my mind was their courage. When they saw wrong, they not only tried to make it right, but they did so with no guarantee of success. What a glaring contrast to the Washington of today which spends most of its time doing nothing and the rest of its time devising schemes to avoid responsibility for anything. The latest example: when congress approved arming the Syrian rebels, they stuck the legislation in a bill that also provided money to keep the government from shutting down. That way, if arming the rebels turns out to be a debacle, members can say, "I was never for arming the rebels, I just voted to prevent a government shutdown." The Roosevelt documentary was 14 hours long spread over seven nights. A story about the courage of today's Washington would take about 30 minutes-at most.

Back in a minute. [Commercial Break]

BOB SCHIEFFER: We got a lot more coming up on Face the Nation including our panel with former Congresswoman Jane Harlan, former Senator Joe Lieberman, CBS Senior Security Contributor Mike Morell, and Brookings' Robert Kagan.

[Commercial Break]

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, some of our stations are leading us now. But for most of you we'll be right back with a lot more Face the Nation including our panel and the latest on efforts to fight the Ebola epidemic so don't go away.

[Commercial Break]

BOB SCHIEFFER: And welcome back now to Face the Nation. We are joined by our panel, former Congresswoman Jane Harman, she is now at the Woodrow Wilson Center, former Senator Joe Lieberman, who is heading up a new anti-terrorism group called the Counter-Extremism Project, CBS Contributor Mike Morell, formerly number two at the C.I.A., along with Robert Kagan of the Brookings Institution. Welcome to you all. Well, Samantha Powers says that other nations have agreed to participate in airstrikes into Syria. Any guesses as to who that would be? And I would take that as good news in a week when there hasn't been much, Jane.

JANE HARMAN: Well, France is one. The UAE I think is two. And I think some other groups in the neighborhood would be very welcome there. But the challenge is who would be on the ground? That's the murky piece of this. As you covered in the last segment with Dianne Feinstein and Mike Rogers there are several groups on the ground that could harm us.

And if the al-Nusra group now called or now part of a Khorasan group affiliated with the Taliban, affiliates with the bomb makers in Yemen and then gets some foreign fighters, I know this is really complicated, that group could harm the U.S. even sooner than ISIL. So we have to be very careful on the ground. And we need Muslim boots on the ground. And I haven't seen anybody sign up yet.

BOB SCHIEFFER: I think the French said they would go only into Iraq with an air strike.

JOE LIEBERMAN: I think that's true.

BOB SCHIEFFER: But otherwise that--

(OVERTALK)

JANE HARMAN: Well, Syria is the harder problem. And if we're going to push back ISIL by air somebody has to hold the ground. And we're training up some moderate Syrians. But that's a long, slow process.

BOB SCHIEFFER: You're absolutely right. Who are going to be the troops that go in on the ground?

JOE LIEBERMAN: Yeah, let me just get back to the air for a minute because you know it's about 11 days since the president went before the nation essentially declared war against ISIS. I thought it was an excellent speech. Said he would go into Syria to follow them to their havens.

I think it's very important that we strike ISIS from the air in Syria quickly because in the midst of all the conversation about will there be ground troops or not I think people in the region and maybe elsewhere are beginning to question whether there'll be American follow through on the speech that the president made. So it would be great to have allies with us when we strike the terrorists in Syria. But it's not worth waiting much longer. I hope those air strikes come against ISIS in Syria very soon.

MIKE MORELL: And, Bob, it's very important that the countries who join us, that some of those be Arab countries. And I think Jane is right. We're going to see that. And the reason it's important is so that we don't play to the ISIS and al-Nusra narrative that it's Christians killing Muslims. It's very important to have those Arab countries with us.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Bob, the president keeps talking about the things and, I mean, I'm quoting his critics here now, the things we're not going to do. And you heard me ask Samantha Power about that. What concerns me and I think what concerns some critics is that he's deluding his message when he says what we're not going to do.

ROBERT KAGAN: Part of the problem is he's deluding the message. But I think the bigger problem is is that they're building their strategy backwards from what they don't want to do. If we've decided that ISIS or these other groups are vital threats to the United States you don't usually deal with vital threats to the United States by first listing all the things you're not going to do to go after them.

We've had senior military advisors, generals, chosen by President Obama, who've said; who've made it clear they believe there has to be some U.S. military presence on the ground to make these operations work. But we see a president who's saying, "That's not going to happen." And I think that, you know, the biggest problem is a strategy that can actually have some success of working.

JANE HARMAN: But the strategy needs a soft power piece. And that's what Joe is about to do, launch on Monday, is so critical. Our counter-narrative, not just ours, but the 40 nations in this coalition, against ISIL is what's going to win the day.

The pragmatic Sunnis who, for the moment, are supporting ISIL are doing that because there is no real alternative. Maybe the new government in Iraq will be that alternative; maybe something in Syria will be that alternative. But we've got to woo those folks back. If we don't win the argument we're never, we, the coalition of 40, are never going to prevail--

(OVERTALK)

BOB SCHIEFFER: What exactly are you going to do?

JOE LIEBERMAN: Thanks, Bob. The Counter-Extremism Project will be a private, non-profit international action and policy group which essentially is saying the greatest threat to our security, world security today comes from extremism. And most of it today is from Islamic extremism, terrorism, violence.

Governments obviously have to lead. But we think there's a role for people in private life. And we're going to do three things mainly, 1) create a database of these terrorist groups and who's supporting them, their financial support. Secondly, we're going to work to break that financial support. For instance, if you're a company illegally buying oil from ISIL or ISIS we're going to call you out and put pressure on you to stop.

And the third really important, and we're building support from leaders in the Muslim world for this, there needs to be a well financed counter narrative to the extremist ideology that is growing more and more young, disaffected Muslims into this on a terrible, violent lifestyle.

It's very clear everywhere the extremists go including ISIS, the people, the Muslims on the ground, are terrified. And a lot of them are leaving. They don't want this. This is unpopular. But if the rest of the world sits back and doesn't provide a counter narrative to this violence, they'll leave. And the extremists with all their brutality will dominate more and more of the world. We can't let that happen.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Bob, you were just about to say--

ROBERT KAGAN: Just that's critically important. And I'm really glad Senator Lieberman's taking the task on. It's important. And of course soft power is important. But we are kidding ourselves if we don't understand at the end of the day the people we're fighting about don't care about soft power, they don't care about an international economy.

They are using force to accomplish an objective. I think in America these days we have somehow told ourselves that there are a lot of ways of dealing with these problems other than hard power. Vladimir Putin cares about hard power, ISIS cares about hard power. And in order even to accomplish these soft-power objectives you have to prove that you are also willing to fight them on the ground and defeat them. That's how you will get allies.

MIKE MORELL: So two more things on the hard power side. One is I agree 100% with Jane that we have to find a way to get troops on the ground guiding and assisting the moderate opposite in Syria. That is the only way they're going to be effective. Either it has to be the U.S. or it has to be other countries, hopefully Arab countries. But somebody's got to do that.

And over the longer term there has to be a capacity building program in all of these countries that face Islamic extremists. And that capacity building program has to focus on intelligence, it has to focus on law enforcement, it has to focus on military, and it has to focus on the rule of law.

(OVERTALK)

BOB SCHIEFFER: What can we do about Assad?

JOE LIEBERMAN: You know, the president said, and he's right, he's our enemy. He's the reason that Syria's in the terrible shape it's in. Syria is in large areas ungoverned today which is why a group like Khorasan which is mostly Al Qaeda forward deployment, has gone there. We can both fight ISIS and fight Assad at the same time.

(OVERTALK)

JOE LIEBERMAN: I mean, that's what I think.

BOB SCHIEFFER: And that's what we so do?

JOE LIEBERMAN: I think that's exactly what we should do.

(OVERTALK)

BOB SCHIEFFER: We should attack Assad?

JOE LIEBERMAN: Yeah, we should attack Assad and we should attack ISIS--

(OVERTALK)

JOE LIEBERMAN: --and we should support--

(OVERTALK)

ROBERT KAGAN: --do in Syria which was as we take strikes against ISIS in Syria we can also do what we should have been doing over the past few years which is taking down Assad's air force which he's using to commit--

(OVERTALK)

ROBERT KAGAN: --terrible humanitarian disasters. We can crater his runways, we can keep his air from flying. And that's something that's--

(OVERTALK)

JANE HARMAN: Well, let's understand that he already with his air force is attacking the non-ISIL groups on the ground. I mean, ISIL is helping him for the moment. We have to be careful as we get into Syria that we're not empowering the wrong groups and end up empowering him.

Let's understand he used chemical weapons on his own people, something unprecedented since the early '80s when Iraq did this on Iran. And Iran hasn't forgotten that. And I think we should continue to view him as a moral outlaw and in these ungoverned parts of Syria we do have a challenge because there is no effective governments on the ground. It's an ungoverned territory.

Just one more point on soft power though. Let's understand these messages that ISIL is putting out which unfortunately are enhanced by running them on media. I wish the western media would not amplify them. But at any rate, they're putting effective soft-power messages and recruiting all these psychopaths to their cause. That's who the foreign fighters are. There are some true believers maybe inside. And then there are these Sunni pragmatists. But the bottom line is the soft power that ISIL uses is how ISIL is growing its ranks.

MIKE MORELL: Senator Lieberman is absolutely right. Assad is the key problem here supported by Iran and supported by Russia. I would fully support going after him and his leadership team aggressively. But I don't want to do it in a way that degrades the Syrian military, the Syrian security service, and the Syrian intelligence service because they need to be able to bring stability to that country when Assad does go. So we need to get rid of Assad. But we need to do it in a way that keeps the ability to hold that country together in place so we don't end up with a Iraq or we don't end up with a Libya.

ROBERT KAGAN: I don't think the pilots were dropping battle bombs on civilian buildings are going to be the ones to pull a Syria together after Assad leaves.

BOB SCHIEFFER: How do you do that though, Mike?

(OVERTALK)

BOB SCHIEFFER: You're saying get Assad but leave his army in place?

MIKE MORELL: I think we have to come to the conclusion that I think the senator's come to and I think everybody at this table agrees that he is the primary problem. So let's figure out a way of removing him from the battle field.

JOE LIEBERMAN: Yeah, he will try to act as if he's our ally now because we have the same enemy in ISIS. But as others have said, sometimes the enemy of your enemy is still your enemy. And Assad is the enemy here. Remember last year after the bread (?) line and the chemical weapons, president was going to strike Assad's military structures from the air, pulled back on it as we know. We're going to go into Syria now with air power against ISIS. There's no reason why we can't selectively use that air power against Assad. And that will empower--

(OVERTALK)

JOE LIEBERMAN: The people of Syria, particularly the moderate opposite that we're now going to give our armed--

(OVERTALK)

BOB SCHIEFFER: Jane doesn't seem quite as--

JANE HARMAN: I'm not as robustly certain that we have this mission in focus. I don't think Obama's strategy yet includes going after Assad. It certainly includes not working with him. I think these terror groups, again, it's complicated. It's not just ISIL. It's al-Nusra, it's Khorasan, it's these other opportunistic groups which you say connect to Yemen and the bomb maker could hurt us faster using foreign fighters and clean passports than ISIL might.

But we have to keep our eye on that. And let's remember the rest of the world, Iran, the deadline for the agreement is coming up. It's a very serious issue in the Middle East which deserves massive focus, Russia and Ukraine. These are countries where nuclear capability or nuclear weapons and an arm's race in the Middle East right now in the middle of all this would be catastrophic.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, what would Russia do if we just declared war on Assad and went after him? After all, the Syrians, they're (UNINTEL) fate, I mean.

MIKE MORELL: I think we need to have a conversation with the Russians that probably will not go anywhere. But we need to have the conversation that says, "These Islamic extremists in Iraq and Syria are as great a threat to you, Vladimir Putin, as they are to us. Because they're going to go up into the caucuses and they're going to create extremism there." They are a potential nightmare for Russia.

JOE LIEBERMAN: I agree with Mike on that. But Russia obviously does not see Assad as an enemy as we do. He's their client. He's their agent. And I don't think you're going to be able to convince them to--

(OVERTALK)

JOE LIEBERMAN: --and here's the problem. When Putin went into and took Premier I don't think he asked, "What are the Americans going to do in response?" I'm afraid he may have decided they're not going to do anything, the Europeans are not going to do anything. I think this is a case where America has to show with our allies, particularly in the Arab world, we're ready to act. And that action will create a reality that will not only bring others to our side but will make it harder for Russia to respond. What--

(OVERTALK)

BOB SCHIEFFER: What do you think that the American people are so disenchanted right now with the president's handling of all of this? The latest poll I saw showed 37% approve of the president's handling of foreign policy. Why is that that way? And can the president turn that around?

JANE HARMAN: Well, he just got a bipartisan majority in each half of Congress for-- the request to-- arm and train the moderate Syrians in Saudi Arabia. And he's just built a 40-nation coalition to support him. He's going to be at the UN this week. I think a new poll is needed.

But I'd make one last point. Congress. The New Yorker says the policy at the moment is don't ask, just tell. Congress is ducking this whole thing. And I think that's totally irresponsible. The American people's voice is Congress. There needs to be a special session before or after the election and a debate and review of what our comprehensive strategy is.

JOE LIEBERMAN: Bob, your question--

(OVERTALK)

JOE LIEBERMAN: --I'm sorry. Your question is a really good one because, look, I think the public began to lose confidence in the president on foreign policy because they didn't feel he was leading. And for a while they were happy with that. They wanted to stay out of problems.

But then Russia, ISIS, Iraq, the whole combination has scared people now. I thought that the president's speech to the nation about a week and a half ago was going to turn that around. And I'm afraid it didn't because there were too many of what you talked about before. And not just what we're going to do to protect you, Mr. and Mrs. America. But here's what we're not going to do.

And I don't think that was particularly reassuring to the American people. And it was reassuring to our enemies over there. So that's why I say, Mr. President, order the U.S. air force to begin striking ISIS at least in Syria right now. And stop saying what we're not going to do. Let the enemy worry about that.

ROBERT KAGAN: Henry Stinson, had a great line and said, "A president can't ask the American people to tell him in advance if they would follow him if he decided to lead."

BOB SCHIEFFER: I think we're going to let it stop right there. We'll be right back. Thank all of you very much. We'll be right back with an update on the Ebola epidemic in just a minute.

[Commercial Break]

BOB SCHIEFFER: We want to talk some now about this crisis over Ebola. And joining us from Nashville, the head of the Vanderbilt University Department of Preventative Medicine, Dr. William Shaffner, and our own CBS News Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Jon LaPook. He is in New York, of course.

Dr. LaPook, let me start with you. We got reports this week that the CDC is estimating the number of cases of Ebola by the end of the January as possibly infecting as many as a half million people. Now this research has not been made public yet. But can you tell us, do you know anything about this? Does this sound right to you?

DR. JON LAPOOK: Well, I did reach out to the CDC this morning. And they're backing away from that exact number. But they are going to come out in the future with some estimates. But I think there's no doubt this is a huge problem. It's daunting. But there are some encouraging signs because obviously this is the biggest international effort that we've ever seen for an outbreak.

And in addition to understanding we have to supply people with hospitals, with training, with personnel, there's also the realization that you need to build trust. And that's been one of the big problems here because people have been running away from health care. So, for example, I spoke last night to Dr. Paul Farmer who's the head of Partners in Health, and to Raj Panjabi, with Last Mile Health.

They met with President Sirleaf of Liberia last week. And with the idea for the very first time in Liberia and in Western Africa making modern medicine available so that people actually run towards health care rather than running away from it. And Paul said to me, "When in history has Ebola ever collided with modern medicine? Never."

BOB SCHIEFFER: Dr. Shaffner, the president, as we all know, assigned 3,000 U.S. military personnel to deploy to Africa in this fight. How much impact do you think this is going to have? Obviously it's going to help some. But how far do you think this will go? Will we need to do more?

DR. BILL SHAFFNER: Well, this is a big problem. And perhaps we'll need to do more. But this is an important beginning. The military is going to go in there and put in field hospitals, mash units if you will, and do an awful lot of training of locals.

Don't give a man a fish, teach them to fish. And we have to leave that infrastructure in place. We're going to have to organize medical care just as Jon has said. It's very important for two reasons, not just the humanitarian reason. We want to take care of these very sick people. But also we need to get those sick people out of homes. That's the public health reason because when they're cared for by people at home, their family members, that's where transmission occurs, and the next cases occur.

BOB SCHIEFFER: What do you think, Dr. LaPook? I mean, obviously this would not be the assignment that I think most people in our military had been hoping to get. This is a very dangerous assignment. What do you see as the challenges for these people that are going to be going there?

DR. JON LAPOOK: Well, I think it must be daunting to think about going over there. They're not going to be having direct contact with patients and I think that's very important because there's been a lot of misinformation around here. It's not airborne. You don't get it like you get the flu. You have to have direct contact with fluids.

But I think it's such an important thing because it's not only affecting the people directly who have Ebola. But as Dan Kelly, who's a doctor who I spoke to, who was in Sierra Leone said to me, "Ebola kills health care systems." So think about it, all the people who are staying at home with fever, with gastroenteritis who end up having malaria, they're afraid to go to the hospital. So they end up dying at home. So this is such a huge problem. And I think the world is understandably and correctly reacting to it in a massive way.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Dr. Shaffner, we've been talking about how trust is such an important part of this. I noted that yesterday some health workers were attacked while trying to bury Ebola victims. We're starting from ground zero on this. How do we do that to convince people that our people are going to be there to help?

DR. BILL SHAFFNER: We're going to have to just keep on doing the right things. And we need to communicate more effectively with the public. Without the public's trust and cooperation the epidemic will continue no matter how much medical care we provide. So we need to communicate clearly and compassionately with folks in ways that they understand.

(OVERTALK)

DR. JON LAPOOK: I saw a remarkable video that Dan Kelly showed me from Sierra Leone. And in it there was a woman carrying a baby. And he asked her, "Do you think, are you afraid that if you go to the hospital they will inject you with Ebola to give it to you?" And she said, "Well, we hear a lot of things. I don't know what to think." Imagine that there actually was a possibility in her mind that doctors were giving the people Ebola. So that's what we're up against.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Dr. Shaffner, any final word?

DR. BILL SHAFFNER: This is a big start, it's an international effort, it's terribly important, it's impacting the economies of these countries. This is something we need to do. And I think we ought to be proud that we're sending a group of military experts there to help out.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, I want to thank you both for being with us and we'll be right back.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

BOB SCHIEFFER: Finally, today, if this week showed us anything it was that when one thing goes wrong, everything seems to go wrong. So to top off a week when things got more tangled up than ever, that guy jumped the White House fence, ran across the lawn, opened the front door and actually got into the White House. There's a big investigation underway to correct the problem and I'm always reluctant to offer advice. But at our house, the last thing we do before we turn out the lights is lock the door. Just a tip, but it's worked for us. We'll see you next week on Face the Nation.

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