<i>FTN</I> Transcript - Sept. 10
Bob Schieffer, CBS
News Chief Washington Correspondent: Today on Face The Nation, trouble in the Bush campaign gives Republican bigwigs the jitters. Is it all self-inflicted and can new course directions get the campaign back on track?
It was, by any measure, a bad couple of weeks for George Bush. His message about cutting taxes and trying to link Al Gore to Bill Clinton was lost in a weird argument over whether to hold debates. Will there even be debates? We'll ask the executive director of the debate commission, Janet Brown.
Congress is back, but can anything get done in this contentious atmosphere? We'll ask the Democratic leader of the Senate, Tom Daschle. Finally, we'll talk about what the new polls on the presidential race show and whether or not the Bush campaign can right with Republican strategist Linda DiVall, pollster John Zogby and Paul Gigot. Gloria Borger will be here and I'll have a final word on the woes of Dick Cheney. But first debating the debates on Face The Nation.
We start this morning with Janet Brown, who is the executive director of the Commission on Presidential Debates. Ms. Brown, thank you very much for coming. Let me get right to it. Do you have any news for us? Do you think there are going to be debates after all?
Janet Brown, Commission on Presidential Debates: Indeed, I do, Bob. We heard from the Bush campaign late Friday that they would like to sit down and meet with representatives of the Gore campaign and the Commission in Washington next week. It looks like Thursday will be the date for that meeting. We're working on putting it together. I look very much forward to sitting down with both campaigns and talking about the plan.
Schieffer: Well, do you have any idea what they have in mind? Do you think they will want a shorter debate? Do you think that they'll want to have it in different sites than you all have organized? Where do you think awe are in this?
Brown: I don't know what their particular interests are other than talking about the whole plan. As you know, our proposal was put out in January of this year. It involves three presidential, one vice presidential debates on dates that were very difficult to pick because of the Olympics being so late this year. The sites were selected after 18 months of work. And they are well under way with preparations. So I hope that can be the starting point for these talks.
Schieffer: Well now, the Gore people, just to make sure I'm certain of this, the Gore people have said they will engage in the three debates that you have ... As you have set them out. Is there anything here now that's not negotiable? For example, would you be willing to move the debate to a different site if the Bush people wanted that, some of them?
Brown: The sites and dates are - an awful lot of work has gone into both. Would I hope very much they could stay as is. The formais something we are very open to talking about. We've put a number of different options on the table. These have evolved over the years, as you've seen, to get away from the press panel toward single moderator. We've recommended that one of these be held with the candidates seated at a table with the moderator. I think there are a lot of different options that will provide good information to the viewers and listeners.
Schieffer: But the news here this morning seems to be that the Bush people now are ready to talk about participating in these debates. As late as last week they said no, they are not in it. What about time? Would you be willing to have ... One of the concerns they had was maybe the debate was too long. Would you be willing to sidewalk about say maybe an hour, instead of an hour and a half?
Brown: All debates since 1976 have been 90 minutes. The debates in 1960 were 60 minutes, but there were four of those. It's really less the question of the time of one individual debate than the time in the aggregate that you're giving to the discussion of the important issues but I think we can work it out there. There are a lot of format options that can be discussed.
Schieffer: What would you say is the main argument for having these debates under the presidential commission and as you have outlined them?
Brown: The main argument is that the largest number of Americans should be able to watch and lynch to these discussions. If you have a neutral, independent sponsor like the Commission sponsor them, they're open for coverage by all television networks, broadcast and cable and over the air. I think that's clearly in the best interest of the public. That's the way you're going to get the kind of audience that we've reached, which is up to 97 million people for one debate.
Schieffer: Janet Brown, thank you very much. Good luck in your negotiations.
Brown: Thank you.
Schieffer: Well, let's turn now to Democratic Senate leader Tom Daschle who is with us here in the studio. You heard that, Senator Daschle. Do you think that the debates will make a difference?
Sen. Tom Daschle (D-S.D.): I do think in this case think will make a difference. This election is very close, Bob. I think people are going to be looking to the debates just to make their final determination. A number of people are yet to be persuaded one way or the other. I think it's crucial we have these debates. As Janet said, expose those debates to the broadest audience possible.
One of the things that is going to be a factor in this debate is the closing weeks, these closing weeks of the congressional session. Tom DeLay, the Republican number three man in the House, said this morning that he thought there would be a minimum wage passed some way or the other. I was surprised to hear Senator Dodd, a Democrat, saying he was not sure that it was going to be possible to get a miimum wage passed. What is your prediction?
Daschle: Well, the Republicans have put a huge price tag on passing the minimum wage, something like $76 billion in tax cuts that they want to marry to the minimum wage proposal. And that's really what has a lot of people concerned. Last time, we passed a minimum wage, it was a $20 billion tax cut. Now we've got four times that amount. So I think we've got an opportunity here, but I think Republicans have to be reasonable about the tax cut requests that they're making here. I don't think we ought to leave the White House Tuesday until we reach an agreement on that particular issue. There's no reason why we can't pass a good minimum wage this year, Bob. It would be $10 an hour, the minimum wage if we would take what we had as a minimum wage in 1980. So clearly this is something we should do. We can't leave until we've done it.
Schieffer: You're talking about leaders from both parties are going to the White House next week.
Daschle: Exactly.
Schieffer: So what kind of a number would you put on it? On a tax cut that would be acceptable to you Â…
Daschle: Well, you know, as I said, four years ago it was $20 billion. If we were in the 20 to 30 billion dollar range, I think we could probably accept that. But keep in mind, there are all these tax cut proposals out there. If we pass them all, we would be well over half a trillion dollars. I'm not sure our budget can afford that right now. We've got to be prudent with regard to these decisions and this is just one of those slices that we have to take a close look at.
Gloria Borger, U.S. News & World Report: Senator Daschle, the Republican congressional leadership is saying that you just want to keep the Congress in here to the last possible moment because you want to keep having fights that are good for you and your candidates on issues like the minimum wage, on health care, prescription drug benefits, and that that is in fact your strategy, and that you might even like to have them ... to have a government shutdown. How do you respond to that?
Daschle: That's preposterous. The Republicans have been the ones who have delayed. We have 13 appropriations bills. Only two have been signed into law. 11 have not been signed into law. Some have not left the subcommittee. The Republicans are, themselves, their own worst enemy in terms of schedule. This schedule has been grossly mismanaged from the very beginning. We have not done a number of things we should have done a long time ago. Here we are debating about PNTR, what could have been done ...
Borger: That's the trade bill.
Daschle: Ultimately we will pass it, but we have had to pay a high price in terms of time and schedule delaying it in long.
Borger: They are saying on the spending bills you have to do, l1 out of 13, that you are going on a spending spree and that you're going to ust every budget limit that's been set in place, because you have the surplus and it will be good for the candidates. How do you respond to that?
Daschle: The president has proposed an appropriations level that is consistent with what he has done all along. We enjoy a $250 billion surplus in large measure because the president has continued to propose very balanced budgets, very balanced approaches to spending. All we want to do is maintain the president's budget here. I think we can do that.
Schieffer: Let me ask you about a tricky little situation that's developed up in Connecticut in regards to Senator Lieberman. Senator Lieberman, while he is on the ticket running for vice president, he is also running for Senator up in Connecticut. Now some people are saying that if Senator Lieberman resigned that seat before they have the primary up there, that Democrats could nominate a candidate and they think they could nominate someone who could hold that seat in November for the Democrats. On the other hand, if Senator Lieberman decides to stay on both tickets and is elected vice president, then the Republican governor up there next year would be able to appoint a Republican and would be almost certain to do so. And he could serve for two years until they had a special election. What would you advise Senator Lieberman to do here?
Daschle: Well, Bob, I've advised him to stay with what he has already said. He has made a commitment of 12 years to the Senate and public life and has been an extraordinary senator. You know, to give up the prospect of retaining your seat in the Senate just for the possibility of serving as vice president, I don't think is a very good trade. I think he is going to win. And when he does, that seat is going to be very competitive. But I can't ask Joe Lieberman to give up a seat that I think he rightly deserves. He has been an extraordinary senator, a good leader, and I think he's doing the right thing.
Schieffer: But you know, you say that in the face of the fact that some people are saying that you may pick up enough seats that you might actually have a 50-50 tie in the Senate. What would you do then if the Republican governor comes along and appoints a Republican to replace him, and it causes the Republicans to hold a majority?
Daschle: Well, it's not a foregone conclusion, of course, that we would win that seat even if we had another candidate. I think all I have to do is to look at the array of states where we have real competitive opportunities. There are ten states in play now involving Republican senators. That is incredible. That may be unprecedented. We're in a very, very strong position. We'll take back the Senate with or without Connecticut.
Schieffer: You think so?
Daschle: I believe we will.
Schieffer: Can I ask you specifically about some issues that are coming up? Because there is some question about juswhat you will be able to accomplish or what you want to be able to accomplish in this congressional session. What about a prescription drug benefit? The president has offered a deal if you will, $250 billion for prescription drugs. Maybe he would give the Republicans their cut in taxes for married couples. Have you talked about that with Republican leaders at all?
Daschle: We have talked about ways with which we might be able to close the gap. There is a huge gap between the Republican and the Democratic proposals. I'm not as optimistic as I'd like to be, Gloria, about the possibility of passing a good prescription drug benefit this year. But we ought to try. We ought to make every effort. That meeting on Tuesday ought to be devoted in part to prescription drugs, because that's what the American people care about.
Schieffer: Aren't there some Democrats in your own caucus who would just as soon have the issue to take to the voters rather than get a bill?
Daschle: Obviously the issue is so potent and clearly that is a very important one for us. But given the opportunity for a real accomplishment versus the issue, I can't think of anyone who wouldn't want the accomplishment. We've demonstrated you can have the accomplishment and the issue. On this particular issue, that's truly the case.
Schieffer: Let me go back to what you just said. You said you're going to take the Senate with or without Joe Lieberman. What sort of odds would you give on that?
Daschle: A few months ago, Bob, I wouldn't have given you very good odds. I must tell you today that there are so many races out there that have closed very tightly. I would say today there is about a 53 or 54% chance we could take back the Senate. It's looking that much better today than a couple of months ago.
Schieffer: Senator Tom Daschle, the leader of the Democrats in the Senate. When we come back, we'll talk about the Bush campaign and what's going on there, in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL)
Schieffer: Well, joining us now with some perspective on the week's campaign news, Republican consultant Linda DiVall. Paul Gigot, the conservative columnist of the Wall Street Journal and from Syracuse, New York, pollster John Zogby. Let me start with you, because I thought this poll you came out with earlier this week was quite interesting. You had Gore slightly ahead now of George Bush, but to me, the interesting part was this gender gap that you developed. Have you ever seen a gender gap as large as the one that your poll reflects?
John Zogby, pollster: Absolutely not. Not only in the course of the history of my polling but anything that I've ever seen. Basically I think what accounts for it is the fact that Gore did a very good job consolidating Democratic constituent groups after the Democratic convention, including Democratic women. He brought them home, which gave him a double-digit ead among women. But now in the two weeks subsequent to that, he did a very good job by staying on issues like education and health care and so on - picking up independent women. He now leads among independents and that's because of the lead that he holds among independent women.
Schieffer: You think it was the kiss that did it?
Zogby: Well, it could very well have been. You know, he was able to neutralize the morality issue, both with the choice of Lieberman and with the kiss. I guess could you say better to be kissing his wife than kissing an intern.
Schieffer: Linda DiVall, you poll for the Republicans. What is your response to it?
Linda DiVall, GOP consultant: Our polling shows it differently. We have the race dead even 41-41 in a four-way race. We see two interesting things. Both candidates have consolidated their base and it's coming down to ticket splitters where Bush has lost the most ground. He has lost in the Midwest and with ticket splitters. What is interesting most everybody would agree the Bush campaign has not had a stellar last two weeks. The fact of the matter is that the rates is dead even. If they make up the ground with ticket splitters and the Midwest and seniors is important. The gender gap is not as important. The Bush campaign has lost significant support with men more than women and that's putting them at this dead even position. Seniors are already suspect about Gore's prescription drug plan. The Bush campaign would turn away from character, because we're 0-and-3 in character and turn to running on issues and competing plans against Al Gore this race can easily be won Â…
Paul Gigot, Wall Street Journal: Not at all. Linda is right. There is still a big part of the electorate that wants a change. And with the economy being as good as it is, you think Al Gore would be even further ahead right now, but it's an even race and I think that Bush can still win this thing there. No question about it. I agree with Linda on the question of issues. Gore took the Bush people off their game by cutting into the character argument. Bush thought he would win ... could win this by making the case based on leadership. Bush has to come back and say prescription drugs - I have a better plan, his is bad. Taxes? He wants to keep the money in Washington, I want to return it to you. Education? He has issues out there. He has to use them.
Schieffer: Gloria, you have been in contact with the Gore campaign thiweek. How are they feeling over there? Are they pretty ...
Borger: Cautiously optimistic, as we say. I think they're happier than they were certainly before the Democratic convention. But I think they're saying, look 60-percent of the public believes we're on the right track, but we're only up a couple of points in the polls which means we've got a lot of work to do. And I think they're hoping that the Bush campaign is going to stick with its original strategy which was to make this all about character, because it's not working. It worked pre-convention. But at the convention, Al Gore did a very good job of distancing himself from the president, and so now they've got to go to a Plan B and they have to figure out a way to run against a plausible Al Gore, which the Democrats believe they haven't done yet. They also feel good, Bob, because the issue set - health care, education - and suddenly the polls show that the voters favor the Democrats as best able to deal with those issues rather than Republicans of the and so they believe that that's good for Al Gore.
Schieffer: John Zogby, do you think some of this might be self-inflicted? For example, George Bush, getting himself tangled up in the debate issue. To me, that would not have helped things.
Zogby: I think there was overconfidence there to be sure and they were knocked off their game. A testimonial to being off on the issues, is the fact that he got mired in this whole debate over debates which number one, people don't care about, and two, in the whole history of men and games, winners and losers, who is more likely to complain about the process? The guy who senses that he's winning or the guy who senses he is losing? I think that opens up a sense that the bush people no longer felt confident.
Schieffer: What about the remark that George Bush was overheard making on the open mike where he referred to Adam Clymer of the New York Times in less than charitable tones. Paul, do those things really make a difference?
Gigot: I don't think they do in the end. I think people understand that people do give asides like that. The only thing it might have hurt is it's sad on his message for a couple of days. It was off-point. I think that's a short-term diversion that's not going to matter.
Schieffer: What does George Bush have to do to turn it around, Linda?
DiVall: Very easily. This race is going to come down to six key states in the Midwest, plus Florida. He needs to understand that we're not going to win this election on character and solely restoring honesty and integrity in the White House. That works well in nailing down the base and they're there. Swing voters want to hear about Bush's vision for the future. Gloria alluded to it earlier. The key differences, there are competing differences on the two on prescription drugs. Al Gore wants to take money and put it in a rainy day surplus fundI don't want my money over there and I don't think Americans do, either. They need to talk to the American people and define these.
Borger: I was down south last week, and I discovered that the Bush campaign is running television commercials on the Florida stations about every 30 seconds. Do they think this is in play? I would have given Florida to George Bush a couple of months ago?
Gigot: And would you have been right to do a couple of months ago, but now it's a dead heat. The Bush campaign understands that a lot of states that they were winning and a lot of the battleground states are now up for grabs. Joe Lieberman helps an awful lot in Florida. And the Democrats believe their Medicare plan is going to help them a lot in Florida. I also want to say one thing about the Bush campaign. They boxed their candidate in. He is the candidate of civility, the guy who says I want to change the tone of this debate, but he is running negative ads. And how can they sort of work their way around that as we head into the last stretch of the campaign? You all know you have to go negative at a certain point. And it seems to me that in a way they've set their candidate up to look like a hypocrite.
Schieffer: John, what is your take on that?
Zogby: You know, I think that basically what I'm looking at here are two key swing groups. I'm looking at parents and I'm looking at people in the $25 to $50,000 income group. Nobody has won the presidency going back to 1972 without winning those two groups and right now it's a dead heat among those two groups. I think, I agree with Linda that Bush, if he can get back on message, can bring over some of those swing groups over to his side.
Schieffer: Okay. Well, thanks everybody. I think we added a little something here to the debate. Thanks to all of you. I'll be back with a final word in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL)
Schieffer: Finally today, when George W. Bush chose his Dallas neighbor Dick Cheney to be his running mate, it was called a good choice by any many of people, including me.
But after what Cheney has been through, you have to wonder if he still thinks it was a good idea.
Look at what happened to him in one day last week. His hometown newspaper, The Dallas Morning News, reported he hadn't voted in 14 of the last 16 elections there.
He scheduled a campaign stop in Shellton, Connecticut at the urging of GOP candidate Mark Nielson the only to discover on arrival that Nielson was running TV ads citing Joe Lieberman, yes, that Joe Lieberman, as the kind of public official Washington needs.
Then to top it off, the Associated Press revealed that Cheney's old company, Halliburton, maintains segregated bathrooms at its overseas operations. Some for westerners only, others for the locals. That got a lot of attention even though a Halliburton spokesman pointed out and we are quoting here - "Cheney wouldn' have known about the company's overseas commode policies."
Â… Clearly he is not the guy to ask these days, "Are we having fun yet?" You get the feeling that Dan Quayle would find more enjoyment at a spelling bee than Dick Cheney is offing on the campaign trail. Well, that's our broadcast.
END