<i>FTN</i> Transcript - Jan. 7

Bob Schieffer, CBS
News Chief Washington Correspondent: Today on Face The Nation, the Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle on the Bush Cabinet.

Well, the Cabinet picks have been made. Now confirmation hearings loom, and how tough will the Democrats be on John Ashcroft, Gale Norton, and Linda Chavez, Bush's nominees for attorney general, Interior and Labor? We'll ask Tom Daschle, the Democratic leader in the Senate.

What are the prospects for campaign finance reform? We'll ask the Republican senator who has joined Senator McCain in his quest: Thad Cochran of Mississippi.

Gloria Borger will be here and Mike Duffy of Time magazine will join us to talk about the confirmation hearings.

I'll have a final word on Les Brown.

But first, Senator Tom Daschle on Face The Nation.

Schieffer: And we begin in Rapid City, South Dakota, where the Senate Majority Leader, Tom Daschle, joins us.

Mr. Majority Leader, welcome. I know you like to hear the sound of that, because Democrats will be in control of the Senate now until Vice President Cheney is sworn in to replace Vice President Gore, who is now the presiding officer. Is this taking a little getting used to?

Sen. Tom Daschle (D-S.D.): Thank you, Bob. If you could weave that into the interview as many times as possible, I would appreciate that.

Schieffer: Let's get down to business. George Bush has picked his Cabinet. You have begun in the Senate confirmation hearings for Don Evans to be the Secretary of Commerce. Certainly no problems expected there.

Are you planning to open hearings with the other nominees, including the three most controversial, of course: Gale Norton for Interior, John Ashcroft for attorney general, and Linda Chavez for Secretary of Labor. Will do you that before January 20?

Daschle: Bob, the answer is yes. I met with our chairman last week and we all agreed that it was important to move this process along. In some cases, it's going to take a number of hearings. In some cases, we are going to be ready to move ahead, and perhaps even move to a vote for confirmation as early as the 20th or 21st. But we don't think we should wait. We're going to get started and we're going to do it this week.

Schieffer: If you had to handicap it, which of the nominees would you say is in the most danger right now?

Daschle: Obviously, I think we've got to look at some of the more controversial ones: the Ashcroft nomination, the Norton nomination, maybe the Chavez nomination. Those are the ones that seem to be generating the most concern, and obviously for which we're going to have the greatest number of questions.

Schieffer: Gloria?

Gloria Borger, U.S. News & World Report: Let's talk about Chavez for a moment. Do you agree with the AFL-CIO head John Sweeney who said that the nomination is "insulting to working people"?

Dachle: Well, I think that a number of the positions taken by Ms. Chavez raises very serious questions about her willingness to support working people, about her willingness to defend the law, about her willingness to ensure that we have equal justice under the law. Whether she can defend those positions and still enforce the law is a big question.

Borger: Well, the word is that labor might ask Democrats to actually filibuster this nomination, which is highly unusual. Is that something that you would support or even lead?

Daschle: Gloria, I think its too early to make any decisions about what strategy we might employ. I'll be meeting with a number of our labor leaders this week. I'll be meeting with our members of the Education and Labor Committee. I think it's important for us to take this one step at a time. Let's start by asking as many good questions about her background and about her positions, and then we'll take from it there.

Borger: But you wouldn't rule out a filibuster?

Daschle: No, obviously we've got to look at all the options, but it's way too early to make that decision.

Schieffer: We should point out, Senator Daschle, am I not correct, there has never been a filibuster of a Cabinet nominee. Is that not correct?

Daschle: I would have to look back through history, Bob. I think it's very rare, if it ever has been done before. But obviously these are issues that we are going to have to face. We go into this with one very important assumption, and that is that a president deserves the right to have a Cabinet of his or her choice. Now obviously we also have a responsibility through advice and consent under the Constitution to make these decisions along with the president. But certainly our initial interest is to be as cooperative as possible. That may not be possible in all cases, but that's our desire.

Schieffer: Let me ask you about something that has just come up this morning. ABC News - and this is their story - reports that Linda Chavez at one point had an illegal alien living in her home, that she paid this person for what her spokesman tells ABC is for "odd jobs," that she suspected she was an illegal alien, but did not really ask her, because in her view she was not an employee. Now, would a situation like that be something of a problem for Secretary of Labor?

Daschle: Well, of course, we'd want to ensure that those facts are accurate, but if that were to be the case, I think it would present very serious problems. This is the labor secretary. The labor secretary ought to set the example, ought to be able to enforce all of the laws. If she hasn't been able to do that in the past, one would have serious questions about whether she'd be able to do it in her capacity as Secretary of Labor.

Schieffer: Let me ask you also about John Ashcroft, because this is surely going to be another heaing where there will be many, many questions asked.

This morning, Joe Biden, one of the ranking Democrats, said he may vote against Ashcroft. He didn't say that he would, but he said that he may. Do you see that as a harbinger, or are other Democrats considering that? Where do you think this Ashcroft nomination is right now?

Daschle: Well, Bob, I think that's really position of just about every single Democrat. I don't know of a Democrat who isn't prepared to vote against Senator Ashcroft if the facts bear out, some of the concerns that some of those have already raised.

I think it's too early to tell. What I think most of us are saying is, we're going to look at the facts. We're going to ask the tough questions. We're going to ensure that Senator Ashcroft is able, as the new attorney general, to enforce the law even in those areas where he has opposition to the very policies incorporated within that law.

And those questions will ultimately determine the degree to which we, as Democrats, and perhaps even some Republicans, can support this nominee.

Schieffer: Well, I want to go back just for a second here, because the conventional wisdom around Washington has been yes, Senator Ashcroft is going to get kicked around a little; yes, he's going to get dusted up; but in the end, because he is a former member of the Senate, he's going to be confirmed. If I hear what you're saying today though, you're saying this is not a done deal.

Daschle: Oh, by no means. I think it's important for us to make sure that we provide all of the opportunities for those questions to be vetted, and it's only after those questions are vetted will we make the decision. And I'm told there are even some Republicans who are going to be raising some of these questions.

Borger: Who?

Daschle: So, it's not just a Democratic issue.

Borger: Which Republicans, Senator?

Daschle: Well, I don't think it's fair to them to - and I don't have it verified that they're going to be asking questions and are somewhat in doubt. But I do think today, it's an open question about whether some of these nominees will be confirmed.

Borger: Senator, some Democrats want Ronnie White to testify before the Judiciary Committee. He is, of course, a black judge whose nomination for federal judgeship was blocked by John Ashcroft. Do you think Ronnie White should testify?

Daschle: Well, I'll leave that, of course, to the chair and the ranking member, and I think it's important for them to make that decision. I would certainly have no objection. I think we have to get as broad an array of views and positions before the committee as possible.

This is a very critical question how that nomination was handled - that is, the Ronnie White nomination was handled - is one of the factors that many people raise with regard to the eligibility now of John Ashcroft, and so I think it's appropriat that Ronnie White be a witness, but I'll leave that to the members of the Judiciary Committee.

Borger: Well, some Republicans are saying the Democrats are now trying to undermine the Bush presidency at the very outset by playing the race card with the Ashcroft nomination. How do you respond to that?

Daschle: Absolutely not. In fact, if anything, we want to go the extra mile to ensure that every single one of these nominees has a fair hearing. But a fair hearing doesn't mean you just roll over and say we'll take whomever you send down. We've got to do what our Republican colleagues have done with nominations in the past.

I think it's important that we - we owe it to the American people, we owe it to the Constitution, to ensure that a fair hearing means a fair and a balanced hearing. We ask the tough questions, but we don't play politics. We don't play race cards. We don't do the kinds of things that have undermined nominees in the past unfairly.

Schieffer: Let's talk about something that I'm sure a lot of people out there watching this broadcast are wondering about, and that is, are there going to be tax cuts? George Bush seems to be pushing for that big tax cut he talked about during the campaign, but he also seems to indicate, if you look at the words carefully, he might be willing to take it a step at a time. What do you think the chances are for tax cuts, and what kind of tax cuts do you think could pass early in this Congress?

Daschle: I think there's a good chance that we will see a tax cut passed in the 107th Congress, perhaps even in the first session. Whether it passes depends on two things, Bob, first and foremost, how much we can afford.

Democrats have already said, Dick Gephardt and I have said just in the last week, we're willing to go beyond where we've gone in the past. We're willing to come to the middle. I hope the administration will do the same.

We also believe that it ought to be targeted to those who need it the most, to those who want to send their kids to college, to those who have nursing home parents and those who might have child care needs, those who have marriage penalties to deal with, and estate tax. Those are the kinds of things that I think we could deal with and we could find some compromise on.

Borger: Senator, very quickly, but last week the Federal Reserve cut interest rates by a half a point. Does that trump the need for a huge tax cut?

Daschle: Well, I think that it does what - what most economists say, Gloria, is what we ought to do, and that is use monetary policy to ignite and energize the economy more than tax cuts. These tax cuts will have a long time before they take the effect that we hope they will. But clearly, monetary policy is a far better approach and I'm glad they did it.

Schieffer: Let me ask you, Senator Thad Cochran, conservative Republican of Mississippi, will be coming along to talk o us in just a minute. Last week, he signed on with John McCain and said he'll work to pass campaign finance reform. Do you think that means there are now enough votes to pass campaign finance reform and get it to the floor and vote on it in the Senate, Senator?

Daschle: Well, Bob, that's a big deal. Senator Cochran is one of the most respected members of the United States Senate, so he brings clout and he brings credibility to the campaign effort. He also brings another vote. I think we're very, very close, and I'm hoping that we can schedule a vote, schedule a debate sometime in the early part of the new session. That would be the best way to deal with this issue.

Schieffer: So, you're going to go with them? Some people are saying that, you know, this is kind of throwing down the gauntlet to George Bush to put this issue out there first. But you think that you want to do that?

Daschle: Well, I want to work with Senator Lott, obviously, in finding a way to schedule this at an appropriate time. I'd much rather have it scheduled than have the confrontation that will come if we aren't able to schedule it.

What Senator McCain will do is use his rights as a senator to offer it as an amendment to something else. We can take that approach. That's far more cumbersome, far more confrontational. It would seem to me that our best option would be to find a way to schedule it early.

Schieffer: All right. Senator Tom Daschle, thanks so much. We'll be seeing you along the way.

Daschle: My pleasure. Thank you, Bob.

Schieffer: And in the studio now, Senator Thad Cochran. We were just talking about you, Senator Cochran, as you heard. How is this going to work? Are you going to go with McCain and try to just get this out there first and do it immediately?

Sen. Thad Cochran (R-Miss.): I think the scheduling of the legislation is up to the leaders. Senator Lott and Senator Daschle are going to have to plan the schedule of the Senate. I'm co-sponsoring the legislation, because I think the time is now when we need to reform campaign financing laws and other laws relating to federal election campaign processes.

Schieffer: How did you happen to decide to do this? Had you been thinking about it for a long time? Is this something that came to you lately? What was the turning point for you?

Cochran: I think the recent election experience that we all shared, and observing the expenditures of huge sums of money by corporations, by labor unions, issue advocacy ads, so-called which attacked candidates and support other candidates, overwhelmed the process from the candidates' point of view.

I've never seen such a one-sided thing. The candidates have become defenseless in the face of these huge sums of money. So I think it's time that we addressed it. We need to take action to equalize the opportunity for getting a message out. It shouldnt be just in the hands of people with money.

Schieffer: Well, you know, your President-elect Bush, your incoming Republican president, seems to think that if you pass McCain-Feingold, it's going to put Republicans at a disadvantage. He seems to feel that it will give labor unions a chance to put money in and that will put Republicans at a disadvantage, give money to Democrats.

Cochran: Well, I think John McCain and Russ Feingold treat unions and corporations the same. They ban the use of money to expend in federal election campaigns by those entities for the purpose of influencing the outcome of the campaign. I think we need to consider also the organizations and other groups that have become involved and are overwhelming the process with their advertising.

Borger: Some people who work for President-elect Bush are complaining that you've signed on to this, and that in fact you and John McCain are trying to shove this down President-elect Bush's throat by bringing this up so early in the session. How do you answer their complaints?

Cochran: I think this is the - I think this is the most logical vehicle for the debate. It is the best-known campaign reform bill, although there are others that are good. Chuck Hagel...

Borger: What about doing it so early?

Cochran: I'm not deciding when it do it; I'm deciding that it needs to be done and it ought to be a high priority for this session of the Senate. That's my statement, and that's what I will support.

Borger: Do you think that in the end you are going to end up with a ban on soft money, these unregulated large contributions, or that you would end up with some sort of cap on the amount of soft money that can be donated to campaigns?

Cochran: I think we need a process that permits all senators to offer their suggestions. Chuck Hagel, for example, has a bill that would limit, not ban, the use of this unregulated money. I think we need to discuss it, let other senators have a chance to offer their amendments.

I know Chairman Thompson of the Governmental Affairs Committee has some suggestions for changing the criminal law sanctions in the legislation. We ought to consider all of that. Olympia Snowe and Jim Jeffords have a strong disclosure component, which should be included in the legislation in my view.

So I'm not going to say today that we ought to just limit our consideration to one suggested reform. There are many that can be made to improve the system, to give Americans pride in their election process.

Schieffer: Let's talk about some of these Cabinet nominees. Do you think John Ashcroft is going to be confirmed?

Cochran: I really do, not just because he is a senator, but because he is a highly respected senator, due to his intelligence and his integrity. He has proven to be someone who takes the job very seriously. He has done an excellent job as a United Staes Senator and as a state attorney general. I don't see why anyone would vote against him.

Schieffer: How serious is this problem, this new story that has now cropped up about Linda Chavez? How seriously will that affect that?

Cochran: I just heard about it today, as you probably did, too. I don't know what her side of the story is or if there is a real story. And I would reserve judgment on that until we've had our hearing. We can ask questions, the members of the committee with jurisdiction, and get the full facts before the committee.

Schieffer: Thad Cochran, thank you for coming by. Hope to see you again through the year. We'll be back with a little roundtable in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Schieffer: And joining us now to sort of kick around the events of the week, Michael Duffy of Time magazine. And, Mike, it was kind of an unusual week, was it not? We saw a lot of things unfold here.

Michael Duffy, Time: You can see the whole blueprint for the first year of the Bush administration. He finished his Cabinet. It's conservative - competent, but very conservative. He got his White House organized in a very idiosyncratic way, and Alan Greenspan said, you know, you were right what you said about the economy, you know, we need to have an interest rate decrease. That's bad news, too, because now we know George W. Bush is going to be wrestling with the economy for the good part of six months.

Schieffer: But what about this whole business of John McCain sort of laying down the challenge, saying we're going to deal with campaign finance. I promised people that we would deal with that, and I'm going to try to force you to deal with it first, bringing Thad Cochran on board, it seems to me. I agree with Tom Daschle. I think that's a big deal, and I think they are now very close to passing campaign finance reform. But this whole business of timing and scheduling it first, is that a challenge to George Bush?

Duffy: You bet, and, you know, that's the other part of the blueprint we saw. John McCain is going to sit outside of George W. Bush's window and howl all night long...

(LAUGHTER)

Schieffer: ...until he gets campaign finance reform. And even, I think, Cochran wasn't quite sure when the right time was, and he doesn't know how many people will follow him.

Borger: I think they're going to have about nine or ten Republicans, if they really work at it, and then they can get a filibuster-proof majority. And I gather that the Bush folks are already going in to see Trent Lott, saying how can we work this out without having a huge fight right off the bat? They do not want a big fight with Republicans in their own party. They're going to have to find a way. Maybe they'll cap soft money instead of eliminating it all together, but that depends on John McCain.

Duffy: And you have to mrvel at Tom Daschle, what we saw there. Beneath that sort of, you know, understated, low-key, Upper Midwestern style is the heart and soul of a samurai.

(LAUGHTER)

Duffy: He looks gentle, but he is a killer. And even before he got this remarkable power-sharing deal this week, he's already arranged quietly for Democratic senators to run the committees for the next two weeks. And so, in the week that those Republicans are going to come to town and have, you know, inaugural balls and festivities, Pat Leahy and Ted Kennedy will be having much less festive hearings about Linda Chavez and John Ashcroft.

Borger: Maybe having Ronnie White testify.

Schieffer: ...both of you a little bit about this Linda Chavez nomination. It now appears to me that there may be more trouble for Linda Chavez than any of the other nominees.

Borger: Well, it's very clear that labor has said to Democrats, we really are going to fight this nomination. Democrats owe labor an awful lot from this last election, and I think what they're saying to Democrats is we might give you a bye on John Ashcroft if you oppose Linda Chavez. And this notion that they might possibly ask Democrats to filibuster a nomination, which Daschle did not rule out, is quite extraordinary.

Duffy: And they probably can't knock Ashcroft off. The Senate confirms its own, and he is a former senator. And, regardless of his positions, he has a fair amount of good relationships with a number of senators up there.

And, meanwhile, Chavez looks like she has no great support, no base. Her positions are just as extreme, in some cases, as Ashcroft's. And, unlike some of the other groups who oppose Ashcroft, labor unions are powerful on Capitol Hill. They matter a lot. And so I think that's going to be where they begin to focus.

Schieffer: Yes, I would tend to agree with that. Let's talk about this whole business of inviting Ronnie White, the black judge who was blocked by John Ashcroft, to come now and testify at his hearing. If nothing else, it will be some theater there, won't it?

Duffy: That's right. Now, this was in a nomination from the Missouri supreme court to a federal judge. Don't forget, this was a nomination that lost on a party line vote, I think it was 54 to 45, which means every other Republican in the Senate has also voted against Ronnie White. So there will be fireworks if he comes, and they're not...

Borger: Well, they may not want him to testify. The Republicans in the committee could vote against it, and the question is whether they can block it.

Schieffer: But don't, also, the Democrats have to be very careful here, because already you're seeing the Republicans laying the groundwork for a defense, saying, wait, all these special interest groups are just trying to use this as a fund-raising vehicle? Don't Democrats have to be careful that they don't come off as loking like we're just out to block anything because it's a Republican nominee?

Borger: Well, and you heard Tom Daschle. He was very careful to say that a president is entitled to his Cabinet choices - we just have to make sure that these Cabinet nominees will enforce the laws. And with the case of John Ashcroft, he, in the Senate, voted against a lot of laws that are on the books now, and they feel that it's legitimate to ask that question.

Duffy: And I think the Democrats aren't really sure what's going to become of Ashcroft down the road. Maybe George W. Bush nominates him to the Supreme Court. If that's the case in two years, they want to make sure they have a good sort of record on the table just in - because they want to be able to oppose that if that's where they end up.

Borger: But this is all about base politics on both sides. You know, you have the Christian Right supporting John Ashcroft tremendously. On the Democratic side, you have civil rights organizations, women, opposing him. And so, it's just base politics.

Schieffer: I think we're going to have a lot of business and a lot of stuff to report on in this next year. It is really going to be something with that Senate split 50-50. I'll be back with a final word in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Schieffer: Finally today, my kids always laughed when I told them that in the days before television people used to watch the radio, but that what is we did.

I remembered that yesterday when I read that Les Brown died. He was the band leader on Bob Hope's Radio Show, which was one of our favorites. When the announcer said, "starring Bob Hope with Les Brown and his Band of Renown," that was our signal to finish the homework or dishes or whatever we were doing and get in front of the radio.

In those days, the radios were usually in the living room. They were large pieces of furniture, the size of a small chest of drawers. My mother often set a bowl of fruit or flowers on ours, on a doily of course.

But we didn't just listen. We stared at the radio. We didn't need pictures because the scenes we conjured up in our imaginations were far better than anything we would ever see on television, which leaves so little to the imagination it sometimes dulls it.

Looking back, the best trips our family ever took were on those nights when they let me go along to the imaginary places we found ourselves as we sat around and looked at the radio. We imagined things together, and I later came to understand that it was in those times that I began to see all the possibilities before me.

Les Brown's biggest hit was Sentimental Journey. He took me on another one this week.

That's it for us here at Face The Nation. We'll see you next week right here.

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