Hill & Rick Go Toe To Toe

The third and final debate Friday between New York Senate candidates Hillary Clinton and Rick Lazio was like Thanksgiving dinner in, we daresay, an Italian household.

Strongly held views. Expressed at high volume. With lots of interrupting.

But amore?

The moderator, veteran New York newsman Gabe Pressman of WNBC-TV, challenged the candidates to "name three things" they like about one another. Clinton called Lazio a hard worker with a "nice family," and an "attractive young man."

Lazio, who'd sat through the valentine with lips pressed together and eyes downcast, shot back, "I think you're a very attractive woman!"

The third encounter was much better TV than their two previous debates.

While there was no moment that could match the suspense of Lazio's in-your-face "soft money" challenge of their first debate, where he crossed the stage and badgered Clinton, viewers got a chance to see the candidates engage one another directly, across a small table, with little interference from referee Pressman, who shut down a few of their volleys with, "Order! Order!"

Lazio and Clinton clashed over teacher testing; vouchers; and who's the better friend of Israel. They traded barbs about who's bankrolling their campaigns and why.

Some of their sharpest shootouts came on subjects they've been flogging on the stump: health care; Clinton's receipt and subsequent return of a $50,000 donation from a Muslim group; and Clinton's role, if any, in a United Nations resolution condemning Israel's role in recent violence.

They spent at least 10 minutes discussing Israel and the Palestinians, and the controversial contribution.

In New York, where 12 percent of voters are Jewish, Middle East politics are always part of the dialogue in a statewide race.

Clinton, who has collected endorsements from several of New York's Jewish newspapers this week, revealed that she had lobbied her husband, President Clinton, on the UN resolution, which was unpopular with New York Jews.

The U.S. could have vetoed the resolution, but abstained from the vote, effectively allowing it to pass. Clinton said she "urged" the President to veto it but, "He made a different decision."

Lazio said the first lady "rolled" the White House with a 1998 statement in favor of a Palestinian state, and suggested Clinton had wavered in her support for Israel. Clinton said any declaration of a Palestinian state in advance of a comprehensive peace agreement is "unacceptable" and would shut off U.S. aid to the Palestinians.

Clinton said she returned a contribution from an American Muslim organization as soon as she found out that members of the group made remarks to the effect that the UN resolution allowed Palestinians to use armed force against Israel.

Referring to an event Clinton attended with the group, where she received a plaque, Lazio said, "When you cavort with terrorists… you give the credibility."

The moderator questioned both candidates about money - Lazio about "heavy contributions" from the housing industry, and Clinton about entertaining contributors in the White House.

Clinton said there was an "appearance" that Lazio paid back a "million dollars from the building industry" by supporting a relaxation of safety standards.

"Absolutely false! Absolutely false!" replied an infuriated Lazio, who defended his "impeccable" reputation and said he'd helped homeless people, people with AIDS and Native Americans get housing.

On the White House sleepovers, Clinton said that most of her 150,000 contributors have never slept over and there's "never been any kind of quid pro quo" for those who have.

In his first question, Pressman asked them for an example of a stand they took simply "because you thought it was right."

Lazio, who's running as a moderate, cited his support for the NAFTA free-trade pact which split the Republican party, and for a federal assault weapons ban, environmental protections and public funding for the arts, issues that are unpopular in his party.

Clinton, who announced her candidacy at a meeting of a teachers' union, said she supports teacher testing, an issue that "causes an uproar."

Lazio, who favors testing all teachers every five years, challenged Clinton on the issue, asking why she supports testing only new teachers fresh out of college but not more experienced teachers to make sure they're "up to date."

They also sparred over health care and a bill which will help poor women get treatment for breast and cervical cancer under Medicaid. President Clinton signed the cancer bill into law in private this week, thus denying Lazio, a co-sponsor of the measure, a great White House photo opportunity.

Clinton, who also supported the bill, played up her involvement and said "the credit really belongs to the breast cancer advocates."

Lazio told Clinton, "I never noticed you were involved with it at all."
Eleven days before the vote, most statewide polls give Clinton a 7-point lead, including the latest, a poll for New York City cable TV station NY1 that has Clinton in the lead by a margin of 50-43 percent. (A Zogby poll, however, found the race to be a dead heat, with Lazio at 43 percent and Clinton at 42 percent).

The debate was taped Friday afternoon and broadcast Friday night on MSNBC and in the greater New York City area on WNBC.