"Face the Nation" transcript: October 2, 2011
Below is a rush transcript of "Face the Nation" on October 2, 2011, hosted by CBS News chief Washington correspondent Bob Schieffer. The guests are Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., Governor Haley Barbour, R-Tenn., and Governor Martin O'Malley, D-Md.
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BOB SCHIEFFER: Today on FACE THE NATION, is he or isn't he, will he or won't he? We're talking about Chris Christie. And it's a question they're asking everywhere. Is he going to run for President?
MITT ROMNEY (Former Massachusetts Governor, Republican Presidential candidate): It would be fun if he got in.
HERMAN CAIN: Come on down as they say.
BOB SCHIEFFER: He's in the headlines of all the papers and news magazines. The New Jersey governor even made David Letterman's top ten.
DAVID LETTERMAN: Presidential retreat moved from Camp David to Hershey Park. Number four, taxpayers would have to pay for the President's second seat on Air Force One.
BOB SCHIEFFER: But who is he and where does he stand on the issues? We'll ask Republican Governor Haley Barbour of Mississippi and Maryland Democratic Governor Martin O'Malley. But we'll start with Republican Senator John McCain.
All that and some final thoughts on a 60 MINUTES legend, all ahead on FACE THE NATION.
ANNOUNCER: From CBS News in Washington, FACE THE NATION with Bob Schieffer.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And good morning again. We welcome to the broadcast this morning Senator John McCain who is just back from Libya. We'll get to questions about that and Republican politics in a minute. Senator, welcome to the broadcast.
SEANTOR JOHN MCCAIN (R-Arizona): Thank you.
BOB SCHIEFFER: The first thing I want to ask you about this morning, at the recent Republican debate, the audience booed when a gay soldier asked a question and the candidates on stage said nothing. Last night, President jumped all over that at a gay rights dinner. I know you opposed ending "don't ask don't tell," but I want to play a bit of what the President said and get your reaction here.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: We don't believe in that. We don't believe in standing silent when that happens. We don't believe in them being silent since. You want to be Commander-in-Chief, you can start by standing up for the men and women who wear the uniform of the United States, even when it's not politically convenient.
BOB SCHIEFFER: So, what about that Senator McCain? Did the President have a point?
SEANTOR JOHN MCCAIN: I think he has a point but the fact is the overwhelming majority of Americans support the men and women who serve in the military no matter what their sexual orientation is. I opposed the repeal without the assessment of effect on enlistment morale, battle effectiveness, et cetera. But the fact is that we should honor every man and woman who is serving in the military and should in no way treat them with anything but the highest regard. Different from the war that you and I had some--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Yeah.
SEANTOR JOHN MCCAIN: --involvement in.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, do you think that the Republican candidates should have spoken up at that debate about that?
SEANTOR JOHN MCCAIN: Yeah. I do. But a lot of times, you know, when you're in a debate you're thinking about what you're going to say and what the question is going to be. It's hard to react sometimes. So-- but I'm sure that I would bet that every Republican on that stage did not agree with that kind of behavior.
BOB SCHIEFFER: You're just back from Libya where you traveled this week. Yesterday, Army General Carter Ham who heads the U.S. forces in Africa told the A.P. that he thought the military mission in Libya is done. What do you think? Should the NATO mission be declared over even with Qaddafi still at large?
SEANTOR JOHN MCCAIN: I think that it's certainly winding down. I think there's no doubt that the-- the victory has been won, but there's enormous challenges for the Libyans. There's still signific-- areas where they haven't gained control. They have no national army, Bob. And these militias are very-- it's very unclear where they will go and where they lie. They need a national army. They've got thousands and thousands of wounded. They say that they've lost twenty-five thousand people killed, three thousand that have been maimed, sixty thousand injured. That's their government figures. We should be helping them. We should be giving-- they don't have the medical expertise and talent to take care of these people. Senator Rubio and Senator Kirk and Senator Graham and I went to a hospital in Tripoli. There are amputees there. We should be-- a-- sending-- either helping them by sending some of them to Landstuhl, our hospital in Germany, maybe even thinking about sending a hospital ship to Tripoli. If that's too dangerous, maybe to Malta. But we can help them. They don't have the medical ca-- capability to care for all of these wounded. More are still coming in. I think that would be very important in our relations with the Libyan government and people. Don't get me wrong. They have challenges but they are like America. They are proud of-- of what we've done to help them. And I think we could do enormous things by helping them with the casualties that they've experienced which have been horrendous.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let's talk a little politics this morning.
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Okay.
BOB SCHIEFFER: What's the deal here? New Jer-- Jersey Governor Chris Christie said he would commit suicide before running for President. Now everybody tells me he is seriously reconsidering whether to get into the race. Do you think he's going to run? Do you think he ought to?
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: I don't know. I think it's a tough decision that only he and his family can make. I do remember in past years we've had people whose names popped up and they've been kind of the flavor of the month. I'm a great admirer of Governor Christie. I think he's done a great job as governor. I think he'd be a very viable candidate. But remember he's starting from way behind in fund-raising and organization and other areas. But, look, I-- could I just mention; we have the deepest bench in the Republican Party now that I have ever seen in my lifetime. We've got governors like Governor Christie and governor-- Governor McDonald. We've got young Senators like Rubio and Graham and Kirk and Kelly Ayotte in New Hampshire. We've got members of the House like Eric Cantor and Paul Ryan. We've got the deepest bench that I have ever seen. So I'm very excited about the future of the party. If Governor Christie decides to run, I wish him luck. I think that there is a-- a bit of a caution. And always, the-- the swimming pool looks a lot better until you jump right in. The water may not be quite as warm as you think.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, you-- you cite this deep Republican bench and yet, the polls suggest and the anecdotal evidence I mean when I talk to Republicans, they don't seem very happy with the Republican field that's running. Why do you think that is?
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: I think it's-- it happens almost every time that people are not happy with-- with the perfect candidate. I do note that Governor Romney and Perry and others are very competitive now. Others in the-- in the polls with the President and I-- I think that we have a-- a good crop of candidates. I think the party will rally around the nominee. And I think we're going to win this next election.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me just quote what Rush Limbaugh said about Chris Christie the other day. He said the Republican establishment does not want a conservative to get the nomination, if they can co-opt the conservative they will do it. And he said in that speech that Governor Christie made out at the Ronald Reagan Library last week. He said he heard a lot of John McCain in that.
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Oh, no.
BOB SCHIEFFER: What do you think he meant by that?
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: I don't know what Rush meant he represents a voice of a stro-- significant part of our-- our party. I think that Governor Christie would probably run on his record as governor. And I think that that's a pretty solid base that conservatives could rally around. But like, as you know, I'm-- I'm not-- and-- could I also say that I think it's time for the President of the United States to emulate what-- what Bill Clinton did after the ninety-two, four elections, sit down with Republicans and let's try and work something out. People are sick and tired of what's going on here in Washington, both as far as Congress and the President is concerned. He's not going to pass his jobs bill. Dick Durbin, the number two guy in the Senate just said, we're not going to pass the jobs bill through the Senate in its present form. Instead of saying pass the bill now, why didn't the President say let's sit down now. Everybody I talk to in Arizona streets say, why don't you all sit down and-- and reach some agreements. This economy is in the tank. And it's getting worse and the housing crisis which triggered all this is not coming back. And we need to address the housing crisis in this country while Wall Street is doing fine. Main Street is still hurting very badly. Have the President say-- take the Bill Clinton approach in my view.
BOB SCHIEFFER: But wouldn't the White House say to you, keep asking them to sit down. And all they do is say no.
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: I just-- I just know for a fact that our Republican leaders now, they-- they read the polls. They-- they see how low opinion the American people have of us. But more importantly than that, the economy continues to stagger along. Remember last summer I believe it was going to be the summer of recovery. So it's time we tried something different. And it works. The approval rating of both will go up if we will sit down and, look, there are some areas that we would agree on, the payroll tax, a flat tax. Is there-- have you met any American that doesn't agree that we should reform the tax code? And I don't think we can put all our eggs in the basket of the super committee as much as I admire and respect it.
BOB SCHIEFFER: John McCain. Always a pleasure to have--
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Thanks for having me.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --you, Senator. All right. When we did-- come back, we're going to talk some more about Chris Christie with a Republican Governor Haley Barbour and a Democratic Governor Martin O'Malley in a minute.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: So we're talking politics this morning and we're going to keep up the conversation with the Maryland Governor Democrat Martin O'Malley. Governor, thank you for being here. And down in Mississippi, Republican Governor Haley Barbour, he is in Jackson this morning. Well, Governor Barbour, let me just start with you. Is Chris Christie going to run and do you think he ought to?
GOVERNOR HALEY BARBOUR (R-Mississippi): Well, I don't know what he's going to do, Bob. If he runs, he'll have a big following. He'll be a very strong candidate out of the chute. I don't think it is too late for a candidate with his stature to decide to run. But I don't know what he's going to do. And that's going to be up to him and his family.
BOB SCHIEFFER: But, you know, he's getting this-- all this encouragement from-- from a lot of people in the establishment, a lot of pundits are talking about it. But there are a couple of things about him that may not sit well with some people to the right of your party. I mean, he opposed the ban on assault weapons. He's fairly liberal on gun control like a lot of people north eastern mayors and-- and governors might be. He says that climate change is connected in some way to what humans are doing here on earth. How is that going to play with say some of your Tea Party friends?
GOVERNOR HALEY BARBOUR: Well, Barack Obama is the greatest uniter of Republicans and conservatives in increasingly large numbers of independents that they won't have any trouble supporting Chris Christie if he's our nominee. Now, I have no idea whether he'll run. But I also believe those same people will support Rick Perry or Mitt Romney or just go down the list because if this election is a referendum on President Obama's record, on his policies and the results of those policies, then that will unite Republicans and independents behind our candidate.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me ask you this, governor. You know, like a lot of us over the years, Governor Christie has had a little problem with his weight. You've had that problem. I've had that problem at one point in my life. Michael Kinsley, the columnist wrote the other day that Chris Christie cannot be President because-- and I'll just quote what he said--because, "He's too fat." Do you think that's a fair thing to say?
GOVERNOR HALEY BARBOUR: Obviously you're addressing that question to me not Governor O'Malley who's never--who's never had a double chin.
BOB SCHIEFFER: (laughing).
GOVERNOR HALEY BARBOUR: You know, when-- when somebody becomes very well known, those sort of superficial things become non-issues. But at first blush, you know, what do they say? You only-- you only get one chance to make a first impression. And clearly, when you see somebody or me-- somebody like me on television in comparison to somebody like Martin, you know, he probably gets the first-- the first swing out of the box.
BOB Schieffer: All right. Well, let's go-- let's go to the slim, trim governor from Maryland.
GOVERNOR MARTIN O'MALLEY (D-Maryland): I've never quite had an introduction like that.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Governor, is that a fair criticism to make in American politics?
GOVERNOR MARTIN O'MALLEY: Well, I think at the end of the day what this race is going to come down to, is effectiveness. And I think that whatever entertainment value Governor Christie might bring to the race and certainly there will be tremendous entertainment value especially if you like Don Rickles. But when he-- when it comes to being effective at creating jobs, improving schools, and expanding opportunity, his record in New Jersey has not been a record of governing for effectiveness. His bond rating has been downgraded by two of the bond rating agencies. His unemployment in New Jersey is one of the higher unemployment rates in the country at 9.4 percent. Last year, New Jersey created no net new jobs. And his schools, because of the choices he's made to cut education funding, have actually been declining in their national ranking. So that's not a-- a record of leadership and governance and effectiveness. So, whatever the entertainment value is, it's not effective governing.
BOB SCHIEFFER: While you're also slim and trim. I also say you slightly evaded that question there.
GOVERNOR MARTIN O'MALLEY: It was not an evasion. It was a-- a redirection.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Governor Barbour, let me ask you this. Why do you think Republicans seem so, for want of a better word, dissatisfied with the people who are running? I mean I think that does have something to do with the fact that a lot of people are-- are pumping Governor Christie's case. I mean the polls suggest that less than half Republicans polled like-- they like them but they-- they would like to see somebody else in the race. I hear that from a lot of Republicans. Why is that?
GOVERNOR HALEY BARBOUR: You know, it's interesting that Governor O'Malley's answer if nothing else demonstrates how afraid the demo-- the Democrats are of Governor Christie with that long prepared redirection of the question. But, you know, I-- I don't think the-- the-- the reason you see so much interest in looking at other people is for the reason you think. I feel it's like-- like Democrats fields are sometime big fields. Some of them that are not very well known, some of them are just being introduced. But the reason people are so concerned about our nominee is Republicans and independents want a new President. And they want the Republicans to nominate somebody who is going to win and in the policies of the Obama administration. And, so I think that's why people are looking at this so hard and want to make sure we have the-- the very, very best candidate. But I think like Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton, Democratic nominees and Democratic Presidents who the summer before the election year, nobody thought was a very good candidate. I-- I think our candidate will be very similar to that.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Governor?
GOVERNOR MARTIN O'MALLEY: I think there's a reason why Haley Barbour hasn't endorsed any of those that are running for President in his party yet. And that's because, Bob, they're not really-- you've seen the spectacle. You talked about it yourself. The crowds booing. The-- the servicemen that spoke, the crowds applauding at the notion of letting someone die in a hospital. These candidates aren't running for the nomination of the Republican Party. They're running for the nomination of the Tea Party. They're not putting forward new ideas to create jobs that would qualify them to be President. They are pandering that the Tea Party to be the mad hatter. This is not the sort of field of candidates that should inspire confidence in a stronger economy with expanding opportunity. If you look at the mess that the President was left because of the wreck that George Bush made of the economy, you now look at some signs of our economy stabilizing. Is it improving as quickly of-- as any of us would like? No, it's not. But ten out of the last eleven months, we created more jobs than we lost as a nation. Foreclosures are at their lowest level in forty-four months. We see a banking industry that has been stabilized. We see an auto industry that's turned around and is actually hiring again. When President Obama runs against a backdrop of the big problem and mess he was left, he will not be running against the almighty, he will be running against the alternative. And right now while their bench might be deep with personalities in the Republican Party, their pool is shallow in terms of new economic ideas or any sort of effective governance that's been proven in the field.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, Governor Barbour, I guess you would like to respond to that.
GOVERNOR HALEY BARBOUR: Well, I-- I hope that the Democrats run on President Obama's record. I mean, the idea that they're going to blame what's happening in the last three years on George Bush, you know, next there will talk about Herbert Hoover. I mean, the fact of the matter is that Obama's policies--
GOVERNOR MARTIN O'MALLEY: (INDISTINCT)
GOVERNOR HALEY BARBOUR: --and the policies of the Reid-Pelosi Congress have made this economy worse, not better. And his idea of the jobs bill was more of the same. Well, will only do half as much of the same, but will do more of the same. That's what his jobs bill is. Uh, so I hope that the fact is that President Obama does run on his record. However, I doubt that he will. I think what he'll do is he'll try to make whoever we nominate, somebody unacceptable and will attack, attack, attack because the election is a referendum on Obama's policies. We're going to have a Republican President.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Uh-Huh, Governor O'Malley just when you mentioned Hoover said, uh, great analogy.
GOVERNOR HALEY BARBOUR: Hey, I'm not surprised. The Democrats ran against Hoover for seventy years. They got to run against somebody because they sure can't run on Obamacare or his proposals to increase taxes on employers when the-- when the deal we're trying to do is have more employees. So, yeah, he'll-- they'll talk about Hoover. George Bush, Richard Nixon. Haley Barbour is too fat.
GOVERNOR MARTIN O'MALLEY: Yeah, I think what's going to happen and what's happening right now in our nation right now, Bob, is that-- look, there are going to be two economic plans that the people of our country will choose from. One that was the failed plan proven to have failed under George W. Bush with-- which brought us not only record deficits, but worst record job losses in our country. And then, you will have the plan that has been advanced by the President, once again renewed with his drive for the American Jobs Act that will create jobs in our-- in our country. And the opposition from the do-nothing Tea Party Congress makes it very clear that they do not have an alternative except to prevent the President's plan from fully working. Uh, we'd all like it to be creating jobs more quickly. I'm sure the President would like it to be creating jobs more quickly. And if the members of the do-nothing Republican Congress would actually put a couple of oars in the water and help us do these things like Governor Barbour mentioned that make so much sense. Uh-huh, the-- and allowing working people to be able to take home a little more pay, so they can spend in the economy. The things that have been done to train workers in Georgia, the Republican ideas and Democratic consensus that existed on investing in infrastructure, our roads, our bridges, our tunnels. Look, people are going to choose between the failed economic plan of George Bush and the economic plan of President Obama which has stabilized our economy. And with some help, we could actually move it forward.
BOB SCHIEFFER: I'll give you quick response (INDISTINCT) Governor Barbour.
GOVERNOR HALEY BARBOUR: You know-- you know, Bob-- Bob-- Bob, Martin's amnesia about the fact that Obama had the biggest Democratic majorities in Congress since Lyndon Johnson. They passed everything he wanted including ramming health care, Obamacare down the country's throat and now they complain, well, jeez, we didn't get everything we wanted, those mean Republicans. Bill Clinton never did that. Ronald Reagan never did that. When they had Congress's and other party, they led. And this President, he is going to learn how to lead or he's going to go back to Chicago.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. We're going to have to end it right there, the clock ran out. Thanks to both of you.
GOVERNOR MARTIN O'MALLEY: Thank you, Bob.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Very enlightening.
GOVERNOR MARTIN O'MALLEY: Thank you, governor.
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