On this "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan: 

• Secretary of State Marco Rubio
• Sen. Tom Cotton, Republican of Arkansas 
• Rep. Jim Himes, Democrat of Connecticut 
• Sen. Chris Van Hollen, Democrat of Maryland 

Click here to browse full transcripts from 2026 of "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan."   

MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington.

And this week on Face the Nation: The Trump administration stages a dramatic top-secret mission in Venezuela and captures its leader, dictator Nicolas Maduro. But what's the U.S. role going forward?

We will talk to Secretary of State Marco Rubio.

Nicolas Maduro is now in a Brooklyn jail, facing drug trafficking charges, after being captured by the Army's elite U.S. Delta Force as part of a massive U.S. military operation early Saturday that reportedly killed at least 40 Venezuelans.

(Begin VT)

DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): And it was an assault like people have not seen since World War II. No nation in the world could achieve what America achieved yesterday or, frankly, in just a short period of time.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: The mission was months in the planning, but executed in just under three hours. What's next will take much longer, as questions about the legality and justification of the strikes continue, as well as how and who will rule Venezuela going forward.

(Begin VT)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We're going to run the country until such time as we can do a safe, proper and judicious transition.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: In addition to Secretary of State Rubio, we will also hear from Senate Intelligence Committee Chair Tom Cotton and the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Congressman Jim Himes.

Plus, Maryland Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen will also be here.

It's all just ahead on Face the Nation.

Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.

Americans woke up yesterday to the shocking news that the U.S. had staged a massive air attack on the capital of Venezuela and captured Nicolas Maduro. Today, we will explore questions about what it means for the U.S. and why it's such a seismic development.

We begin today with Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who joins us this morning from Miami.

Good morning to you, Mr. Secretary.

MARCO RUBIO (U.S. Secretary of State): Good morning. Good morning.

MARGARET BRENNAN: President Trump said that the United States will run the country and that Venezuela will be largely run by, he pointed to you and some of the other Cabinet members when he spoke to the public yesterday. He said, the U.S. retains all military options, including boots on the ground, until U.S. demands have been fully met.

How do you plan to run the country?

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: Well, first of all, I think the important thing to point out is that the key to what that regime relies on and – is their economy fueled by oil.

And, right now, it is an oil industry that is backwards and really needs a lot of help and work in terms of – not only that, but it doesn't help the people. None of the money from the oil gets to the people. It's all stolen by the people that are on the top there.

And so that's why we have a quarantine. There's a quarantine right now in which sanctioned oil shipments – if there's a boat, and that boat is under US sanctions, we go get a court order. We will seize it. That remains in place, and that's a tremendous amount of leverage that will continue to be in place until we see changes that not just further the national interest of the United States, which is number one, but also that lead to a better future for the people of Venezuela.

And so that's the sort of control the president is pointing to when he says that. We continue with that quarantine, and we expect to see that there will be changes, not just in the way the oil industry is run for the benefit of the people, but also so that they stop the drug trafficking, so that we no longer have these gang problems, so that they kick the FARC and the ELN out, and that they no longer cozy up to Hezbollah and Iran in our own hemisphere.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But what you are talking about is more of a sanctions pressure, not boots on the ground. So just, to be clear, there is no plan for U.S. occupation of this country of nearly 30 million people?

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: Well, I think, first of all, the president always retains optionality on anything and on all these matters. He certainly has the ability and the right under the Constitution of the United States to act against imminent and urgent threats against the country.

That said, and all of that said, as of right now, I think what you see as a force posture. It's one of the largest naval deployments in modern history…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … certainly in the Western Hemisphere, and it is capable of stopping not just drug boats, but stopping any of these sanctioned boats that come in and out, and really paralyzing that portion of how the regime, you know, generates revenue. So that will continue to be in place.

What the president has said, obviously, is, you know, and I think what he's pointing to is that this obsession people have about boots and this or that, he – he does not feel like he is going to publicly, you know, rule out options that are available for the United States, even though that's not what you're seeing right now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well…

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: What you're seeing right now is an oil quarantine that allows us to exert tremendous leverage over what happens next.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, he also said the U.S. is ready to stage a second and much larger attack if we need to do so.

But I'm curious, because you just described the regime as still in place, essentially. I mean, I'm curious why the Trump administration decided to leave it intact and only arrest Nicolas Maduro and his wife. the person who controls the police, the chief thug, Diosdado Cabello, he's the interior minister. He's been indicted by the United States. He was in that indictment the administration released.

He's a narco-terrorist. There's a $25 million price on his head. He's still in place. The defense minister, who has deep ties to Russia, $15 million price on his head, he is still in place. I'm confused. Are they still wanted by the United States? Why didn't you arrest them if you are taking out the narco-terrorist regime?

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: You're confused? I don't know why that's confusing to you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: They're still in power.

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: I mean, it's very simple. You're not going to go in and wrap up – you're going to – you're – but, yes, but you can't go in - - you're going to in and suck up five people? They're already complaining about this one operation.

Imagine the howls we would have from everybody else if we actually had to go and stay there four days to capture four other people. We got the top priority. The number one person on the list was the guy who claimed to be the president of the country that he was not, and he was arrested, along with his wife, who is also indicted. And that was a pretty sophisticated and, frankly, complicated operation.

MARGARET BRENNAN: It was.

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: It is not easy to land helicopters in the middle of the largest military base in the country. The guy lived on a military base. Land within three minutes, kick down his door, grab him, put him in handcuffs, read him his rights, put him in a helicopter and leave the country without losing any American or any American assets.

That's not an easy mission. And you're asking me, why didn't we do that in five other places at the same time? I mean, that's absurd. I – I do think this is one of the most, you know, daring, you know, complicated, sophisticated missions this country has carried out in a very long time.

Tremendous credit to the U.S. military personnel who did it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: It was unbelievable, and a tremendous success.

And, today, an indicted drug trafficker who was not the legitimate president of Venezuela…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … who we don't recognize, the Biden administration didn't recognize, 60-something countries don't recognize, the European Union doesn't recognize, and many countries in Latin America don't recognize – he was a convicted – he was a indicted drug trafficker.

He was arrested. His wife was arrested, also indicted.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. But the others who are also indicted are still…

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: And they are now facing justice in the American system of courts.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The others who are also indicted are still in place. So that's the point of my questioning there.

But you talked about not being the legitimate president.

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: So you wanted us to land in five other military bases?

(CROSSTALK)

MARGARET BRENNAN: No, I'm asking why you chose that this was the limit of the military operation.

But to your point that you just made that Maduro was not the legitimate president…

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: Well, because he was the – he was the guy was claiming to be the president.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. Well, the opposition…

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: He was the top target.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

The opposition leader, Maria Corina Machado, and Edmundo Gonzalez won that 2024 election, by your own account. They were some of the first people you called when you were secretary of State. You said Edmundo Gonzalez is the rightful president of Venezuela. Is that still the U.S. policy? And if so, are you working on a transition to have those elected leaders run the country?

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: Well, I think a couple things.

I have tremendous admiration Maria Corina Machado. I have admiration for Edmundo. We have all those views about what – the election that happened the last time, and not only us, but many other countries around the world. There's that.

And there's – and then – but there's the mission we are on right now. We have been very clear from the beginning, because I still think that a lot of people analyze everything that happens in foreign policy through the lens of what happened from 2001 through 2015 or '16. The whole, you know, foreign policy apparatus thinks everything is Libya, everything is Iraq, everything is Afghanistan.

This is not the Middle East. And our mission here is very different. This is the Western Hemisphere. Within the Western Hemisphere, we have a country, potentially a very rich country, that has cozied itself up – under the control of this regime, has cozied up to Iran, has cozied up to Hezbollah has cozied – has allowed…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … narco-trafficking gangs to operate with impunity from their own territory, allows boats with drugs to traffic from their territory. And we are addressing that.

And, by the way, eight, nine million people in the largest mass migration event in modern history have left that country since 2014…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. Right, but that regime is still in place.

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … also having an impact on us. That is what we are addressing now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Did – when you spoke yesterday, when…

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: Well, again, that – but we're not just addressing the regime. We are addressing the factors that are a threat to the national interest of the United States.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood.

You spoke with Delcy Rodriguez, who is now, according to President Trump, sworn in as the president, as the leader of Venezuela. Did she promise you that she is expelling all those American adversaries from Venezuelan territory? What exactly did she agree to do when she spoke to you?

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: We – we are going to – our objectives when it comes to how Venezuela impacts the national interest of the United States have not changed, and we want those addressed.

We want drug trafficking to stop. We want no more gang members to come our way. We don't want to see the Iranian and, by the way, Cuban presence in the past. We want the oil industry in that country not to go to the benefit of pirates and adversaries of the United States, but for the benefit of the people.

We want to see all of that happen. We insist on seeing that happen.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Did she promise that?

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: And we are going to work to continue to see that happen.

Well, right now, the United – we are going to see what happens moving forward. Let me just say that. I'm not obviously going to have these conversations in the media. These are delicate and complicated things that require mature statesmanship, and that's what we intend to do.

But our goals remain the same. The difference is that the person who was in charge, even though not legitimately, in the past was someone you could not work with. We just could not work with him. He is not a person that had ever kept any of the deals he made, broke every deal he ever made…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … made a fool out of the Biden administration on the deal they made with him.

And we offered him on multiple occasions an opportunity to remove himself…

MARGARET BRENNAN: But…

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … from the scene in a positive way. He chose not to do so. And now he's in New York, a resident of the Southern District.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But his number two is now running the country. His number two is someone you can work with? And you – is that what you're implying here? And did she tell you that she will transition to democracy and the woman who won the election, along with her partner there, Maria Corina Machado?

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: We are going to make – we are going to make our assessments of people. You're asking me to make an assessment. We're going to make an assessment on the basis of what they do, not what they say publicly in the interim, not what, you know, some – what they've done in the past in many cases, but what they do moving forward.

So we're going to find out. You're asking me how do – do I know what decisions people are going to make? I don't. I do know this, that if they don't make the right decisions, that the United States will retain multiple levers of leverage…

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … to ensure that our interests are protected.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: And that includes the oil quarantine that's in place, among other things.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you…

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: And so we – but we are going to judge – moving forward, we're going to judge everything by what they do, and we're going to see what they do.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, because, yesterday, President Trump said Maria Corina Machado doesn't have the support or respect within the country. And, by your own admission, she walloped Nicolas Maduro in the last election. So it does sound like a decision was made, but today it…

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: She wasn't on the ballot in the last election.

MARGARET BRENNAN: No, but her – her party was.

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: Edmundo was, correct, yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. So, is there an agreement to…

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: It was an illegitimate election, and that's why he's not a legitimate president.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. But is there an agreement to transition to democracy? It sounds like there's not.

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: I think what the president pointed out is the obvious.

Well, I think what the point – but there has to be a little realism here, OK?A transition to democracy – they've had this regime, they've had this system of Chavismo in place for 15 or 16 years, and everyone's asking why 24 hours after Nicolas Maduro was arrested there isn't an election scheduled for tomorrow? That's absurd.

MARGARET BRENNAN: No, no, I'm asking what you talked about with her.

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: These things take time. There's a process.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. And you are…

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: Well, I'm not going to have – I'm not going to publicly get into details about any of those things, other than to tell you that our expectations remain the same, and we are going to judge whoever we're interacting with moving forward by whether or not those conditions are met.

We want – of course we want to see Venezuela transition to be a place completely different than what it looks like today. But, obviously, we don't have the expectation that's going to happen in the next 15 hours. What we do have an expectation is that – that it move in that direction.

We think it's in our national interest, and frankly, in the interest of people of Venezuela.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The president used the word oil 20 times in his press conference. You talked about these tremendous oil assets that Venezuela have – has.

But the president's last envoy to Venezuela, Elliott Abrams, is publicly arguing that you know better than the policy you're backing. He said – quote – "Venezuelan plutocrats or U.S. oil executives seem to be coming to Mar-a-Lago and whispering about how easy life would be if we just made a deal with the regime once Maduro was gone."

Is that what happened here?

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: No, that's not what happened here.

What happened here is that we arrested a narcotrafficker who's now going to stand trial in the United States for the crimes he's committed against our people for 15 years. And the person who helped him, of course, his wife, who was colocated with him, so she was arrested as well. That's what happened here.

As far as oil, look, oil is critical, not just to fueling economies all over the world. It's critical to Venezuela's future. Their oil industry is completely destroyed. It's destroyed.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: All those oil fields that used to produce a lot and wealth for their country and their people, those things are decrepit. They're bankrupt. They need to be reinvested in. It's obvious.

You – they do not have the capability to bring up that industry again. They need investment from private companies, who are only going to invest under certain guarantees and conditions. That has to go to the benefit of the Venezuelan people. Right now, all of that wealth is stolen.

It's stolen, and it goes into the hands of oligarchs around the world and the oligarchs inside of Venezuela. A handful of people benefit from it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: The people don't benefit from it.

On top of that, it's very simple, OK? In the 21st Century, under the Trump administration…

(CROSSTALK)

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … we are not going to have a country like Venezuela in our own hemisphere in the sphere of control and the crossroads…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SECRETARY MARCO RUBIO: … for Hezbollah, for Iran and for every other malign influence in the country – in the world. That's just not going to exist.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Marco Rubio, Secretary of State, we would love to keep talking to you, but I'm told you are out of time. I have to leave it there.

MARCO RUBIO: Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Late yesterday, CBS Evening News anchor Tony Dokoupil exclusively with Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth and asked what the president's comments about the U.S. running Venezuela meant and asked if the secretary was prepared to have troops on the ground there.

(Begin VT)

PETE HEGSETH (U.S. Defense Secretary): Well, it means we set the terms. President Trump sets the terms. And, ultimately, he will decide what the iterations are of that.

But it means the drugs stop flowing. It means the oil that was taken from us is returned ultimately and that criminals are not sent to the United States. It means that foreign countries don't have a lodgement inside our hemisphere.

So, ultimately, we're going to control what happens next because of this brave decision. President Trump has shown American leadership and he will be able to dictate where we go next.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Face the Nation will be back in one minute. Stay with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We're joined now by the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Arkansas Republican Tom Cotton.

Good to have you here. Senator.

SENATOR TOM COTTON (R-Arkansas): Thanks, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You have oversight of the intelligence community, which was deeply involved in this operation to go into Venezuela militarily and extract Nicolas Maduro and his wife.

Does the U.S. still assess that the regime in Venezuela is made up of narco-terrorists with ties to Iran, Russia, China and Cuba?

SENATOR TOM COTTON: Well, first off, let me commend not only our military. As President Trump said, this was an excellent operation. Only the United States military could have pulled it off, but they couldn't have pulled it off with the support – without the support of the professionals in the intelligence community, especially at the Central Intelligence Agency.

And I'm glad that we have a director, John Ratcliffe, that has restored confidence in the CIA. And the president – the president has – I think the president respects the CIA as much as he ever has. It's a great day, not just for our military, for our CIA.

There's no question that the people in Venezuela who are still in charge of the apparatus of the government are sanctioned and indicted officials, and they've been in league with Nicolas Maduro until just yesterday.

I think President Trump wants to give them a chance to turn a new page. Now, that's happened in the past. If you look at what's happened in Syria, as you know, Ahmed al-Sharaa used to be an Islamic terrorist. He's now effectively a pro-American leader of Syria.

Moammar Gadhafi, the same way, had much blood on his hands. After the Iraq War, he turned over a new page and came out of the cold. Now, the difference in those two cases is,they made concrete concessions to the United States and our policy goals and interests or they had a longer history of turning the corner, like Ahmed al-Sharaa has.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Or it's an entirely new government.

SENATOR TOM COTTON: We've – we've – we've got – we've got to make sure that the people who are now in charge of the apparatus of the Venezuelan government are not going to continue Nicolas Maduro's ways, and I think that's what the president made clear yesterday.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But it sounds like you think that's actually possible for these individuals to cut all ties to the cartels?

(CROSSTALK)

SENATOR TOM COTTON: The president – the president wants to give them a chance to turn the page in Venezuela and to help America achieve our policy goals there.

MARGARET BRENNAN: How much time would you allow for that?

SENATOR TOM COTTON: I wouldn't allow much, personally, but I know those conversations are ongoing. As Secretary Rubio said earlier on the show in your interview, we want them to stop the drug and the weapons trafficking. We want them to take the refugees back. We want them to kick out the Iranians, the Cubans, the Islamic radicals like Hezbollah, and just return to being a normal nation that will help build stability, order and prosperity, not just in Venezuela, but in our backyard.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Should a free and democratic Venezuela still be a goal of the United States of America? And, if so, do you hear from the administration a plan to transition to that?

SENATOR TOM COTTON: I think it should…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Because Secretary Rubio wasn't clear.

SENATOR TOM COTTON: I think it should be a goal. The opposition leaders, Ms. Machado, Mr. Gonzalez, have said they think there need to be new elections.

I hope the government that's right now in place in Venezuela will allow them to return, along with many other exiles who have left, political exiles who have left Venezuela, and that, in some period of time – probably is not going to be days or weeks, maybe a number of months – that you can have new elections in Venezuela that are free and fair.

The Venezuelan people have made clear now under Nicolas Maduro that they do not want a Chavista regime governing them. They want a say in their own future. Venezuela has a long history of stable, orderly government that was friendly to the United States. We are their number one customer for oil, and we have worked together to help build prosper – prosperity and stability in our own backyard.

I hope that we can do that again with the future government of Venezuela.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The CIA – or CBS is reporting that the CIA source inside the Venezuelan government helped the U.S. track Maduro's location leading up to this capture by the Army's Delta Force.

The president said yesterday the U.S. should not pay out that $50 million bounty that was on the head of Maduro. Does that mean that the CIA asset inside still works for us?

SENATOR TOM COTTON: Well, I have no comment on CIA sources or methods in Venezuela or elsewhere.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But they won't be receiving the $50 million reward?

SEN. TOM COTTON: I will simply say that the CIA's amazing work here that has instilled such confidence in the president is a reminder not just to Nicolas Maduro's cronies in Venezuela, but other bad guys all around the world, that we have very good insights into what they're doing and what they're up to.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, when the president says we will run Venezuela, you are confident that there are actual American assets helping to do that? Is that how I should interpret that?

SENATOR TOM COTTON: I'm confident that we have very good insight into Venezuela and other adversaries, foreign nations, and terrorist groups around the world. That's why the president…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Why was China there?

SENATOR TOM COTTON: That's why the president has such confidence in John Ratcliffe and the CIA.

Well, China was trying to provide support to Venezuela during a U.S. pressure campaign. But where were they when Delta Force went in and got Nicolas Maduro? They were nowhere to be found. And, frankly, that's the same thing you saw in June with China and Russia in Iran. We struck Iran. China and Russia did nothing. They stood idly by.

That's a reminder that the United States is still the world's dominant superpower. Our friends are very happy today. Our enemies are very worried.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But the person running the country, Delcy Rodriguez, spoke yesterday with Russia's top diplomat. They are in contact with Russia. The defense minister has deep, deep ties to Russia.

Is there a U.S.-Russia agreement here? Because there has been speculation, based on testimony to Congress back in 2019 by one of Trump's top Russia advisers, Fiona Hill, that Russia has been floating a Venezuela-for-Ukraine deal here.

SENATOR TOM COTTON: No, this was – no, this was…

MARGARET BRENNAN: … for some time. Is there any such deal?

SENATOR TOM COTTON: No, this was a U.S. operation that was designed to remove Nicolas Maduro because he was a U.S.-indicted drug trafficker.

And you don't get immunity from American justice when you're indicted by our courts just because you're the illegitimate communist dictator of another country. And…

MARGARET BRENNAN: But, to be clear, that's not what I'm saying here.

Is there an implication that, if Russia doesn't meddle in America's backyard, South America, the United States will do something less in Ukraine…

SENATOR TOM COTTON: No, there's…

MARGARET BRENNAN: … which Russia calls its backyard?

SENATOR TOM COTTON: No, there's no such implication. And, obviously, Russia doesn't need any kind of pretext to do so. It's invaded Ukraine twice over the last 11 years.

There's no such implication here at all. And this was an operation the United States conducted on our own, without any coordination or cooperation from other countries, to advance our national interest, which is to stop the drug trafficking and stop Venezuela from cooperating with countries like Russia and China and Cuba and Iran.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. I want to ask you about authorities here on the other side of the commercial break that we are going to take. So, let me do that and come back.

SENATOR TOM COTTON: Sure.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, stay with us, Senator Tom Cotton.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back with more from Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Tom Cotton, plus the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Jim Himes, and Maryland Senator Chris Van Hollen.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We return now to our conversation with Senate Intelligence Chairman Tom Cotton.

Senator Cotton, the president said Saturday that a second wave military attack had been planned, wasn't necessary, but it could still be carried out. What would necessitate it? And what would you support?

SENATOR TOM COTTON (D-AR, Senate Intelligence Chairman): Well, what I took the president to mean that what we just did with Nicolas Maduro could be done again to other Venezuelan leaders. Several of them are indicted in U.S. courts, they're sanctioned by the United States and Canada and European Union and other nations. And if they continue down the path that Maduro took the nation of Venezuela, then we could conduct the same kind of operation as him. I took that as the president urging them to change their ways or face the same consequences.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And would you support a stabilization force with U.S. boots on the ground, as the president said he wouldn't rule out?

SENATOR TOM COTTON: We already had boots on the ground, as Nicolas Maduro learned the hard way. It's always the president's option to use the American military protect American citizens and interests. And, obviously, we have many American citizens inside of Venezuela and we have many interests in (ph) property as well. I don't think the president –

MARGARET BRENNAN: But you know combat and stabilization forces are there.

SENATOR TOM COTTON: But I don't think he – I don't think he plans to do that. And I think we've seen, too, the president – the president's way of war over the last – or over five years in office. If you look at four major operations, the killing of the ISIS leader in Syria, the drone strike against the Iranian terrorist mastermind in Iraq, the strike against Iran's nuclear facilities, and now this capture of Nicolas Maduro. When our vital national interests are implicated, the president takes bold, audacious, direct action. He accomplishes the mission, and then the mission is over.

In some ways, this is the greatest mission of them all. I mean as impressive as our military was in Iran in June or in his first term in Iraq and Syria against those terrorist masterminds, it's probably harder to capture someone and get out with no American loss of life than it is to kill a target or to blow up nuclear facilities.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you are drawing a distinct there in terms of authorities and use of the military. The War Powers Act requires the president to notify Congress of the reason for committing troops within 48 hours of their deployment and requires they be removed within 60 to 90 days unless Congress authorizes it. You OK with this open-ended commitment to keep forces as they are?

SENATOR TOM COTTON: Well, I think he has removed troops. They were only there for a couple of hours to nab Nicholas Maduro.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You're talking about the Delta Force operators who are on the ground.

SENATOR TOM COTTON: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But there is a significant military buildup all around South America right now.

SENATOR TOM COTTON: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You're comfortable with that? Does Congress need any authority?

SENATOR TOM COTTON: I strongly – no, I strongly support it. I mean part of – part of that deployment was to collect intelligence, to conduct this operation, to quarantine the oil trade that Venezuela was sending to Cuba or sending to our adversaries around the world.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But it's not mission accomplished.

SENATOR TOM COTTON: I won't – we won't have accomplished our mission until Venezuela starts acting like a normal nation. It stops the drug trafficking and human trafficking and kicks out Islamic radicals and Iranians and Cubans and helps the United States build a more stable, prosperous western hemisphere. That's the ultimate goal, and that's what President Trump laid out yesterday.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, last month the chief of staff to the president, Susie Wiles, told "Vanity Fair" that attacking targets on Venezuela's mainland, sovereign territory, would force Trump to get congressional approval. Quote, "if he were to authorize some activity on land, then it's war, then we'd need Congress."

You are a co-equal branch of government. Why doesn't the president need you or your authority or your consultation?

SENATOR TOM COTTON: Well, I consult routinely with the president and his senior advisers. And, in fact –

MARGARET BRENNAN: You, personally, sure.

SENATOR TOM COTTON: Yes, like – well, as the chairman of the Intelligence

MARGARET BRENNAN: But Congress.

SENATOR TOM COTTON: As the chairman of the Intelligence Committee, they keep me apprised of what their plans are and what's going on.

I mean I spoke, in the last 24 hours, not just with the president, but with his senior team. Every man that was on that stage with him yesterday, Marco Rubio, John Ratcliffe, Pete Hegseth, Dan Caine, Stephen Miller, the core architects of the president's policy here, I've spoken with every single one of them in the last 24 hours.

Congress has acted to provide the president with resources and authority that he needs to protect the vital interests of the United States. Whether it's taking out this drug trafficker, Nicolas Maduro, who had contributed to the death of hundreds of Arkansans and hundreds of thousands of Americans, or striking Iran's nuclear facilities, he has the inherent authority, under our Constitution, to protect these American national interests. And as the chief law enforcement officer, to make sure that indicted drug traffickers face justice, whether they're indicted in Venezuela or indicted in the United States.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But by his own admission, the DEA administrator said that cocaine prices have gone up nearly 45 percent, drug traffickers have only changed routes. Venezuela is not a fentanyl producer, not a cocaine producer. Do you really think that this has ended the drug problem?

SENATOR TOM COTTON: Venezuela is unique in Latin America, though, because the Maduro regime is itself in league with the drug trafficking cartels. It doesn't just tolerate them or it doesn't just fail to control its territory. It is in league and profits from drug-trafficking cartels. That's the distinction between Venezuela and other nations.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Cotton, thank you for your time today.

SENATOR TOM COTTON: Thank you, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to Connecticut Congressman Jim Himes. He is the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, and he joins us this morning from Greenwich.

Congressman Himes, you are a part of that Gang of Eight, which means that information about these secret operations is statutorily intended to be shared with you as part of this very small group. Given that and what you should know, can you clearly explain what the United States is doing?

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES (D-CT, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE): Yes. By the way, I was delighted to hear that Tom Cotton, chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, has been in regular contact with the administration. I've had zero outreach. And no Democrat that I'm aware of has had any outreach whatsoever. So, apparently we're now in a world where the legal obligation to keep the Congress informed only applies to your party, which is really something.

But, yes, no, look, I know exactly where we are, Margaret. We're in the euphoria period of acknowledging across the board that Maduro was a bad guy and that our military is absolutely incredible. This is exactly the euphoria we felt in 2002 when our military took down the Taliban in Afghanistan, in 2003 when our military took out Saddam Hussein, and in 2011 when we helped removed Muammar Gaddafi from power in Libya. These were very, very bad people. By the way, much, much worse than Maduro in Venezuela, which was never a significant (AUDIO GAP) national security threat to the United States.

But we're in that euphoria phase. And what we learned the day after the euphoria phase, that it's an awful lot easier to break a country than it is to actually do what the president promised to do, which is to run it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: And so, again, let's let – let's let my Republican colleagues enjoy their day of euphoria. But they're going to wake up tomorrow morning knowing, my God, there is no plan here, any more than there was in Afghanistan, Iraq, or in Libya.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you heard the secretary of state say, well, this is not the Middle East. There are conflicting statements from cabinet members. Hegseth told CBS, you know, the president of the United States will absolutely be in charge here and leaned into the idea of military options. President Trump said there will be an option of boots on the ground. Secretary Rubio, though, really just leaned into an oil quarantine here.

What exactly is the point of leverage here? When do you expect to get answers? Do your Republican colleagues promise you that they will get some of the answers to the questions you have?

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Of course not, Margaret. I mean, look, you're seeing it on television today, right? Two-thirds of my Republican (AUDIO GAP) wake up every single morning and the only question they have is, what can I do to prove my loyalty to the president today?

And we see this because the president has completely shifted who he was. I mean as I watched that news conference yesterday I thought, oh my God, this is Dick Cheney and the neocons. Not only are they taking out a – they're doing a regime change in a country – by the way, not a tier one threat to the United States but that they just don't like. They're warning the other dictators, this is Dick Cheney in 2002 saying, we're taking down Saddam Hussein. And by the way, Syria and Iran better watch out.

And the fascinating thing about that and why it's really hard to answer the question of where the hell they're going to go from here is that the president won by promising MAGA and his own people that this kind of stuff was done, that the neocons were over. And here we are, that was Dick Cheney in the conference yesterday, you know, deciding that the United States was going to, you know, militarily change regimes and threaten other ones just because we don't like them.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, but then the secretary of state was talking about working with the regime and working with Maduro's number two, who's now running the place, and other indicted criminals according to the Southern District of New York, who are continuing to run Venezuela. So, can you really say that's regime change if they're working with the regime?

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: As you pointed out, it's not (AUDIO GAP) right? And you (AUDIO GAP) to explain any consistency here. I mean as you pointed out (AUDIO GAP) was a very bad guy and indicted (AUDIO GAP) trafficker (AUDIO GAP). Couple of weeks ago the (AUDIO GAP) pardoned that (AUDIO GAP) indicted drug trafficker (AUDIO GAP) these guys get a pardon (AUDIO GAP) get the full (AUDIO GAP). I (AUDIO GAP) that. There is no (AUDIO GAP) – maybe (AUDIO GAP) believes that (AUDIO GAP) work with the – but, I mean, look, again, go back to (AUDIO GAP) and it is liberated –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman Himes, I'm sorry to cut you off here. I'm having a terrible time audio-wise. I'm going to take a break because hopefully our technicians can fix it in those two minutes. So, please stay with us.

We'll be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to "FACE THE NATION."

I just want to apologize to our viewers there. Congressman Himes did not have a bad case of the hiccups. We have technical problems. That's why he was getting interrupted there. It's called Live View. That's the technology being used. And it wasn't working. So, apologies for cutting that short.

You're back with me now in studio. And we're going to talk to Maryland Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen, who is here in person.

SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Good to be with you, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And will not have those problems, we hope.

But let's pick up on that very same point that we were discussing with Congressman Himes there. He says that no information was being shared with the top people who have oversight, like himself. What leverage do Democrats have to force the administration to treat Congress as a coequal branch of government?

SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Well, Margaret, it's hard when the Republicans in Congress are totally awol, right? When they want to give Donald Trump essentially a blank check because they continue to have majorities, of course, in the House and the Senate. Obviously in 2026, if Democrats regain control of either house, we will have the gavel. But in the meantime, we need to go directly to the American people and just make it very clear that in this case, it's my view that the Trump administration's been lying to the American people. This has never been about stopping drugs from coming to the United States. We all support stopping drugs. This from the beginning has been about getting rid of Maduro, grabbing Venezuela's oil for American oil companies and Trump's billionaire buddies. That's what this is about. That's why Donald Trump spent so much time yesterday talking about oil.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Twenty times the word "oil" was used in those remarks. The defense secretary spoke to my colleague, Tony Dokoupil, and used the word "oil" about six times. There is a lot of focus on those natural resources.

But, arguably, isn't that what China, Russia, Iran, and others are also trying to do, which is to extract their own benefit from this country? You know, what is the counter to that point that the administration would argue?

SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Well, the counter is, you don't invade a country to grab their natural resources, right?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you – do you consider this an invasion even though – although it's unclear because Senator Cotton both said there were boots on the ground and that there aren't.

SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Well, let's put it this way – well, they took – they had boots on the ground, right? They took – they took out the leader. And now they're demanding access to Venezuela's oil. That's what this has been about. I mean Donald Trump, you know, claimed that he'd been against the war in Iraq from the beginning. That wasn't true. But what we do know is he said, well, having gone into Iraq, we should have gotten their oil.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: This is what drives Donald Trump. And our service men and women performed magnificently. But I think it's outrageous that the president of the United States puts American lives at risk so big American oil companies and his billionaire buddies can profit.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But, arguably, there are also critical minerals there. There are all sorts of natural resources in Venezuela that the drug cartels even were getting in the business of, that the Chinese were there trying to get. How do you do both things, both corner the market on the things that are of vital national security interest, those kind of minerals, and still actually maintain the principles that you're arguing should be upheld?

SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Well, the United States is working, and under the previous administration also worked to secure, you know, critical mineral supply chains. Unfortunately, in many of these areas, the Trump administration actually has surrendered to China. I mean if you look at, for example, clean energy and all those issues, and batteries, we have essentially surrendered that market to China.

What you don't do, Margaret, is you don't put American lives at risk to go in and grab oil resources to benefit the billionaires that support Donald Trump.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Chevron, an American oil company, has been operating in Venezuela throughout. And they told CBS yesterday that they continue to work there. My understanding is there are hundreds of Americans working and living in Venezuela still. Reportedly there are at least four who had been detained by the regime. The regime that remains in power here.

SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You are on Senate Foreign Relations. What do you know about the detained Americans? What can you find out about how they're doing?

SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: I've not gotten an update from the administration on those detained Americans. Months ago I did work to secure the release of an American, a Marylander who we now have back in Baltimore, Maryland.

I think the administration is looking at those detentions that are currently ongoing in Venezuela and determining how many of them are wrongful detentions, how many that they don't think are wrongful detentions. But certainly my view is, we should work to bring back every American who is wrongfully detained overseas. I think this is going to complicate that effort, what the Trump administration just did.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Because they could designate Venezuela as a state sponsor of hostage taking? Is that where you're going with that?

SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: No. My view is that the administration should designate as wrongfully detained any Americans that the –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: You know Venezuelan government has seized wrongfully. And then there are ways to continue to put pressure on. Now, normally that pressure would be through sanctions. Here the administration obviously has, you know, taken military action. As you've been pointing out, we're still left with the regime.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: I mean the vice president's part of the regime. Donald Trump says he's running Venezuela. This is not going to end well. Iraq did not end well.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Other efforts to try to get rid of bad people, and we're glad to get rid of Maduro. I'd like to get rid of leaders in other countries, but you don't do it through force. That just doesn't work out well in our experience.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. And even on that point though, Secretary of State Rubio challenged me in saying, oh, we couldn't grab all those people at once, but the attorney general – former Attorney General Bill Barr was on Fox News this morning, the man who put together that first indictment of Maduro, and he said, "the intention was to clean the place out of this criminal organization so there's going to have to be follow-up operations."

To be clear, do you oppose all snatch and grab operations of indicted people?

SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Well, I don't think we should be putting American men and women at risk in a situation like this. I mean, I'd have to look at every situation. But again, the motivation here is about grabbing Venezuela's oil for American oil companies. You already see folks on Wall Street lining up. So, let's just be real as to what is really behind this operation. I mean Donald Trump said he was going to focus on the United States. We have people's health care costs going through the roof because they refuse to extend the Affordable Care tax credits. Meanwhile, he bails out Argentina and wants to run Venezuela for the benefit of American oil companies.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We're going to have to talk about all the things you just raised as we – in a future episode of "FACE THE NATION." But clearly on the question of war powers, does the president have the legal authority to do what he's doing?

SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: No, he does not. I mean this is –

MARGARET BRENNAN: You're on the Appropriations Committee. You've got power. What can you do about it?

SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Well, I – I worked with Senator Merkley already to offer a resolution in the United States Senate to cut off any U.S. taxpayer dollars to fund an attack against Venezuela. Republicans blocked us from doing it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: So, yes, we will continue to push. In fact, I'm sure we're going to have a vote on a war powers resolution probably as early as this week, if not next. Last time we offered those, Margaret, Republicans voted no. All but one or two. Senator Paul voted with us. Maybe one other. But for the most part, Republicans are happy to give Donald Trump a blank check and surrender their constitutional responsibilities to Donald Trump.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Van Hollen, a lot more to talk to you about. Thank you very much for joining us here today.

SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We have to leave it there.

We turn now back to our conversation with Connecticut Democratic Congressman Jim Himes, who I think can be heard now.

Congressman, I'm glad we got the link back up.

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: OK.

MARGARET BRENNAN: For those viewers who lost you there, can you explain to us – the administration is arguing that what they did is legal and that the snatch and grab operation of taking an indicted criminal, Nicolas Maduro, to the United States, through military force, has precedent, and they point back to what happened in the late '80s with Noriega in Panama. What's your challenge to that?

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Yes. Well, first it's clearly illegal under international law, right? No – full stop. U.N. charter. No question there.

Now, you may not care about international law. But if you don't care about international law, remember you're going to be making an appeal to international law to try to get restitution for the seizure of Chevron's oil stuff. So, maybe you want to rethink how much disdain you show for international law.

Clearly not legal under the Constitution because though presidents of both parties have argued against this, the Constitution is really pretty clear that the representatives of the people get to be consulted and ultimately approve military activity. That has not happened here at all. And so, again, there's nothing legal about this.

And more to the point, again, under the international law point, think of what Russia and China just learned. Russia and China just learned that all you need to do if you want to go into Estonia is to say that the leader of Estonia is a bad person. You don't even need to make a particularly good case.

Look, there is no national security expert saying that Venezuela was a mortal threat to the United States three weeks ago. So, what China and Russia just learned is that the beacon of liberty and rule of law in the world has now green-lighted snatch and grab operations in Estonia, in Taiwan, wherever Xi and Putin decide they want to go next.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, I take your point on the precedent there. Do you think that China or Russia would have the ability to carry out that kind of lightning operation the United States did?

REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Well, no. But that doesn't mean – well, China, yes. China, yes. China very soon. And, you know, their leader has said, we will develop this capability. We know that their intent is to do precisely this in Taiwan. Russia's a more complicated case. It's – you know, Russia loses 10,000 people to get, you know, three acres of land in eastern Ukraine. But that may not be true five years from now.

And, by the way, back to the Noriega case, because you do ask a good question there. Panama is a terrible precedent. Why do I say that? Because when we went to Panama, the Panamanian Congress had declared war on the United States of America, right? They had killed a United States Marine and wounded two others, and the Congress had been consulted. The Congress, in the Noriega mission, had authorized regime change. So, it's a terrible precedent that the administration is using to say that this is legal.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, as we understand it, because we looked this up, Noriega claimed head of state immunity, and the court said that that immunity was meant to protect official state functions and private profiting off the drug trade. Basically the courts ruled on his actions as a leader and not on the legality of the snatch and grab operation itself.

So, we're going to continue to track all of this. Thank you, Congressman Himes. Thank you, Senator Van Hollen.

We will be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: That's it for us today. And there has been a lot of breaking news. Thank you for watching. Be sure to tune in Monday night and every weekday night for the "CBS EVENING NEWS" as Tony Dokoupil begins a new generation here at CBS News.

Until next week. For "FACE THE NATION," I'm Margaret Brennan.

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