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Armed And Dangerous

(Editor's Note: After our broadcast of "Armed and Dangerous," we heard from David L. Shern, whose organization Mental Health America was included in our story. In our reporting before the broadcast, Dr. Shern told us our interview with former President Michael Faenza accurately reflected Mental Health America's current position and Dr. Shern's current views on the legislation before Congress on mental illness and gun control.

However, after the broadcast Dr. Shern had more to say. Mental Health America is opposed to the current legislation and contends that it will further marginalize the mentally ill, while will not decreasing the rate of gun homicides, as this violence is mainly not perpetrated by the mentally ill.

The following is an excerpt from the letter we received from Dr. Shern: "The stigma of mental illnesses and barriers to treatment can lead to tragic results for individuals and families. In fact, there are 30,000 suicides each year in the U.S. (nearly twice the number as homicides), with most related to untreated mental illnesses. ... Finally, the current legislative proposal is obscenely expensive - $375 million. Imagine spending almost as much for a database as the $430 million the Federal Government currently spends on state grants to fund community mental health services!")

As the smoke clears from the massacre at Virginia Tech, a couple of things have become apparent. First, the gunman, who had a history of mental illness, should have been prohibited under federal law from buying the guns he used in the attack, and second, as horrific as the tragedy was, it is not that uncommon.

It is estimated that every year in the U.S., 1,000 homicides are committed by people with mental illness. It's not supposed to be that way.

As correspondent Steve Kroft reports, the first federal gun control law ever passed in the U.S., way back in 1968, banned the sale of firearms to people with a history of severe mental illness, but the law has never been properly enforced. Seung-Hui Cho is but the latest deranged gunman to shoot up a school or a church or an office for no logical reason.



"Every person who came in contact with him thought he was insane or dangerous," says Jim Kessler, a co-founder of Americans for Gun Safety.

Kessler says the erratic behavior of Virginia Tech killer Seung-Hui Cho was so pronounced, a judge ordered him to a psychiatric facility for evaluation.

"I have a copy of a temporary detention order for Mr. Cho," Kroft remarks. "It was written in 2005. Signed by a judge. And it says that Mr. Cho represents an imminent danger to himself as a result of mentally illness. Should that have been in the computer?"

"That absolutely should have been in the computer," Kessler argues. "I believe what we're seeing is the modern version of a suicide bomber in America, which is, you know, in the past you had someone who was depressed and maybe took their own life. But, now, you're seeing that they're taking lives with them. Now that it's becoming a copycat crime."

There's no shortage of examples. 60 Minutes first reported on this problem five years ago, not long after Michael McDermott showed up for work at Edgewater Technology in Wakefield, Mass., with a bag full of guns. He then went on a murder rampage. One of the first officers inside the building was Stephen Doherty, who was Wakefield's chief of police. He found seven victims, all dead, and McDermott sitting quietly in an office chair.

"And he had at his feet a 12-gauge shotgun. And cradled very similar near his legs, or knees, was an assault rifle," Doherty remembers.

What was his state of mind?

"He only made one statement: 'I don't speak German,'" Chief Doherty remembers. "That was his only statement."

McDermott had been saying and doing irrational things for 15 years, and had twice been hospitalized in psychiatric wards. Chief Doherty says that should have disqualified him from getting a firearms permit, but he got one anyway from his local police department in Rockland, Mass., 30 miles from Wakefield, where the shootings occurred.

"If someone came in with a mental health history like Michael McDermott's, someone who was repeatedly hospitalized for mental illness, would you have issued him a firearms permit?" Kroft asks Doherty.

"Under the present state of the law, I wouldn't know that because that information is private. I'm not allowed to know that," the police chief replies. "I can't get it."

Massachusetts is one of 28 states that doesn't supply any information on people with severe mental illness to the FBI database. That was supposed to change after President Reagan and his press secretary, James Brady, were shot and nearly killed by John Hinckley, a man with a history of mental illness.

Congress passed the Brady Bill, which created a system of instant background checks to screen all gun buyers and prevent sales to anyone barred by federal law from owning a firearm. The system relies on an FBI database that is supposed to have the names of fugitives, felons, and people that have been involuntarily committed to a mental hospital.

But Jim Kessler says the system doesn't work when it comes to the mentally ill. "This isn't something that shows up every couple years at Virginia Tech," he says. "I mean, this happens."

Asked if this is a recurring problem, Kessler tells Kroft, "Look, we could be back here two years from now having this exact same conversation."

Kessler says even though it's against the law for people with severe mental illness to buy a handgun, it's extremely difficult to stop them. "If a mentally ill person, if a person who's been sent to a mental institution by a court goes to buy a gun, we have about a one in ten chance of stopping that person from getting a gun," he explains.

Why such a small chance?

"Those records just simply aren't in the system. Oftentimes, it's about a privacy concern for the mental health community," he says.

"We're not talking here about a system that doesn't work perfectly. We're talking about a system that barely works at all," Kroft remarks.

"The system barely works at all particularly when it has to do with mental illness," Kessler says.

According to one government estimate, there are at least 2.7 million people in the United States who should be banned from owning firearms for mental health reasons. But there are only 235,000 names in the FBI's computer.

Russell Weston wasn't in there, even though he had been involuntarily committed in Montana for delusional behavior. But the Illinois State Police had no way of knowing that when they issued him a gun permit a year later. Weston went on to murder two policemen inside the U.S. Capitol, the same building were the Brady Bill was passed.

It happened, in part, because Congress left a huge loophole in the Brady Bill. It didn't provide money for the states to collect or maintain records on people with severe mental illness, and it didn't require the states to supply that information to the federal database.

"So the federal law says people who are mentally defective can't buy firearms. But the law doesn't say the states have to compile these record?" Kroft asks.

"Right," Kessler says.

"So there nothing that requires the states to keep the records?" Kroft asks.

"There is nothing that requires them, particularly the mental health records," Kessler explains.

Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) first tried to change that five years ago, after a former mental patient named Peter Troy went to a gun store in her Long Island district. He bought a semi-automatic rifle, and murdered a priest and a parishioner inside "Our Lady of Peace" Roman Catholic Church.

"And, in the case of Peter Troy, besides being adjudicated mentally ill, there was a restraining order out against him?" Kroft asks.

"There was, from his mother," Rep. McCarthy replies.

"His mother was terrified of him?" Kroft asks.

"Absolutely. And he should have never, never been able to buy a gun," the congresswoman replies.

McCarthy says his doctors had urged Troy be closely monitored but none of that information was in the federal computers.

The congresswoman has a personal connection to this issue: in 1993, a deranged gunman named Colin Ferguson went berserk on the Long Island Rail Road. "He ended up killing six people. My husband one of them, injuring 21 people and my son was injured extremely, almost fatally. He was shot in the head," she explains.

Four times, McCarthy has introduced legislation that would provide funds for states to collect and maintain records on the mentally ill and punish them if failed to make the information available to the FBI database. But the bill has never passed.

"This is a bill that possibly could have prevented the tragedy of Virginia Tech. It has nothing to do with guns," she explains.

"This is not, per se a gun control law, this is just…?" Kroft asks.

"Absolutely, no," McCarthy says. "I'm enforcing the laws on the books."

You might think that there would be little opposition to such a move, but you'd be wrong. The most vocal is Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, which has 375,000 members and sees nothing wrong with the mentally ill buying guns.

"We think this is simply another way of eliminating another large group of people from gun ownership in this country," Pratt argues.

"That large group, two million-plus...are people who have been involuntarily committed," Kroft remarks.

"We think those are two million people who you can't say that, you know anything about what their future behavior is going to be," Pratt says.

But even the National Rifle Association, one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington, says it's behind efforts to enforce existing gun laws.

While Wayne LaPierre, the NRA's chief executive, stopped short of endorsing the McCarthy bill this week, he said he favors the idea behind it. "There is simply no reason that someone adjudicated by a court of law to be mentally defective, suicidal, danger to himself, danger to others, his record is not in the federal instant check system," he tells Kroft.

Asked if his members are alright with this, LaPierre says, "We are completely alright with that. I mean, we're law abiding people. The last thing we want is some mentally defective person to get a firearm."

Although the National Mental Health Association has a completely different agenda than the Gun Owners of America, its former president, Michael Faenza, used some of same arguments when 60 Minutes interviewed him several years ago.

"We feel that people with mental illness should not have special restrictions regarding firearms," Faenza told Kroft.

"Even someone who's been involuntarily committed?" Kroft asked.

"That's correct," he replied.

A number of states have laws protecting the privacy of the mentally ill and prohibit sharing records with law enforcement. Mental health advocates say the information is subject to misuse, violates doctor-patient confidentiality, and discourages people from seeking treatment.

"If we want to be serious about handguns, targeting people with mental illness is not the place to start," Faenza said.

"It seems like the perfect place to start if you know that somebody is psychotic and delusional and may not know the difference between right and wrong," Kroft remarks.

"But when we're talking about intruding on the medical privacy of a class of people in this country that are already discriminated against, that is really a step in the wrong direction," Faenza replied.

"As a matter of common sense, it seems like a good idea to try and keep firearms out of the hands of people who don't know the difference between right and wrong. Call me crazy, call me irresponsible," Kroft said.

"But when you're talking about national policy, you need more than face value or what seems like common sense," Faenza said. "You need to look at the science."

Although the organization has changed its name to Mental Health America, it hasn't changed its position and believes that a past history of serious mental illness is not a predictor of future violence, and that other groups of people are potentially much more dangerous.



(Editor's Note: After our broadcast of "Armed and Dangerous," we heard from David L. Shern, whose organization Mental Health America was included in our story. In our reporting before the broadcast, Dr. Shern told us our interview with former President Michael Faenza accurately reflected Mental Health America's current position and Dr. Shern's current views on the legislation before Congress on mental illness and gun control.

However, after the broadcast Dr. Shern had more to say. Mental Health America is opposed to the current legislation and contends that it will further marginalize the mentally ill, while will not decreasing the rate of gun homicides, as this violence is mainly not perpetrated by the mentally ill.

The following is an excerpt from the letter we received from Dr. Shern: "The stigma of mental illnesses and barriers to treatment can lead to tragic results for individuals and families. In fact, there are 30,000 suicides each year in the U.S. (nearly twice the number as homicides), with most related to untreated mental illnesses. ... Finally, the current legislative proposal is obscenely expensive - $375 million. Imagine spending almost as much for a database as the $430 million the Federal Government currently spends on state grants to fund community mental health services!")



"I mean, advocates for the mentally ill say that the system stigmatizes people with mentally illness," Kroft tells Jim Kessler. "Sets them apart."

"Right, I would say that Mr. Cho's actions stigmatizes the mentally ill far more than anything that the federal government would do to deny a mentally ill person a gun," Kessler argues.

Once again, tragedy has focused attention on a national problem that has refused to go away. Congresswoman McCarthy hopes that something positive will come out of it. And that Congress will close a loophole she says has already claimed too many innocent lives.

"The pain that I feel when these shootings come, brings me back to the day of December 7th, when my husband was killed. Many victims go back to those days. This is not an easy subject, but it's something that I feel I have a moral obligation to do the best I can. And that's why I'm here," she says.

"Do you think the momentum exists to pass this bill in both the House and the Senate?" Kroft asks.

"I would say that I have a lot of momentum," McCarthy says.

"If you can't pass it now, when could you ever pass it?" Kroft asks.

Says McCarthy, "If I can't pass this bill now, I don't know what I'm doing here, then."
Produced By Trevor Nelson, Dana Miller Ervin, Andy Court and Ira Rosen

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