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A Conversation with Ed Gillespie

Political Players is a weekly conversation with the leaders, consultants, activists and individuals who are shaping American politics. This week, CBS News' Brian Goldsmith talks with Ed Gillespie, a veteran strategist and current chairman of the Virginia Republican Party.


CBSNews.com: Mr. Gillespie, what's your reaction to the Scooter Libby verdict this week?

Ed Gillespie: I feel awful for Scooter. It's our justice system, and I accept it. But I have a hard time making sense of it, to be honest with you.

CBSNews.com: Turning to presidential politics, something that you're better at making sense of. You helped former Virginia Sen. George Allen in his re-election campaign. Is there anyone in the current field you're learning towards supporting?

Ed Gillespie: I am currently serving as the chairman of the Republican Party of Virginia, partly as a result of my experience in watching Sen. Allen's campaign. And, in that capacity, I am neutral in the presidential primary process.

CBSNews.com: You worked so hard for President Bush in 2000 and 2004. And yet he's now facing questions, not just about his judgment, but also about his competence. Has his performance in office gone as well as you'd hoped when you were working for him in those campaigns?

Ed Gillespie: Obviously, he's had a lot of challenges. I have great faith in the president and great affection for him, and I believe that he is strong for America. But these are challenging times. I wish they weren't so challenging, but they are.

CBSNews.com: Do you think that the Bush presidency has weakened or strengthened the Republican brand?

Ed Gillespie: Well, I think the Iraq War, obviously, was a factor in the elections that probably did not help Republicans. But I think there were other things as well. I mean, our brand was hurt in terms of fiscal responsibility. We have to reclaim that.

I saw one survey that showed in 12 critical swing House districts that more voters thought the Democrat candidate would be more likely to cut taxes for the middle class. More voters thought the Democrat candidate would be more likely to rein in federal spending, and more voters thought Democrat would be more likely to reduce the deficit. That really hurt us with independents. We have to reclaim that part of our brand in terms of fiscal discipline. I think the president, putting forward a budget that balances by 2012, without raising taxes, actually goes a long way in helping us in that regard.

CBSNews.com: But do you think the president, in not vetoing any of those spending bills that really outraged a lot of fiscal conservatives, bears some responsibility for that?

Ed Gillespie: I would have liked to have seen a veto of at least one bill. But I understand the president's point, which is this is a Republican House and a Republican Senate that had sent him the legislation. And so, you know, there's responsibility to go around in that regard.

CBSNews.com: Since 2000, a big part of Republican campaign strategy has obviously been energizing and turning out the party's base. And yet, in 2006, which ushered in Democratic control of Congress, the base turned out but you lost among independent and moderates. What do you think you can do to simultaneously keep the base excited and win back voters in the middle?

Ed Gillespie: Well, the extent to which Republican campaign strategy has relied on base turnout only has been largely exaggerated. I make this point in my book. The fact is, in a country this size, neither party is going to get a majority or win elections nationally by getting only its base.

You have to get your base and a lion's share of the voters in the middle. In the case of the '06 election, the independents broke dramatically against Republicans. And part of that is, I think, if you look through the cross tabs, apart from Iraq, there was frustration over ethics in Congress and the view that we were not doing a good enough job policing our own.

With the independent voters, there was a lot of frustration over fiscal responsibility. In the polling data I cited earlier, independents were a large part of those voters who came to the conclusion in the last election that a Democrat may be more likely to cut taxes for the middle class, or rein in spending, or reduce the deficit. So I think addressing those fiscal issues would be helpful. Doing a better job of policing ourselves when it comes to ethics would be helpful with those independents.

CBSNews.com: Exit polls showed that, in 2006, the Democrats beat the Republicans 69 to 30 among Latinos and 91 to 8 among black voters. What specific steps do you think the party can take — and I know this was a big priority of yours as RNC chairman — to improve these numbers?

Ed Gillespie: We do need to do a better job. Our percentage of the African-American vote has hovered between 8 and 11 percent, which is miserable. I mean it's just pathetic. We have to do better. It's been there for about 20 years. We have to do a better job of making inroads in the African-American community.

We are the party of Lincoln. And Sojourner Truth. Booker T. Washington and Frederick Douglas identified with the Republican Party. And we need to reestablish those historic ties. I think we can do that.

With Hispanic voters, we have gone from 26 percent for Dole in '96 to 35 percent for Bush in 2000 to 44 percent in 2004. And then dropped down again to 29 in 2006. I do think we can be a country that protects its borders but is welcoming of legal immigrants. And I think that a positive approach to immigration reform would help us get our numbers back up with Hispanic voters.

CBSNews.com: Your home-state senator, John Warner, opposed the administration's surge in Iraq. How long can the president sustain the surge politically before more Republicans call on him to end it?

Ed Gillespie: Well, the president is the commander in chief, and Senator Warner is a very well respected member of the Senate. Very popular in Virginia. And I don't know anyone who doesn't believe that, when it comes to the Iraq War, or the surge, or our policy there, that it's not a vote of conscience. And Senator Warner clearly has a view different from the president on this. But, at the end of the day, the president is the commander in chief, and Sen. Warner has been clear that he would never support cutting off funding for the surge, or for the troops. So this is an expression of a point of view that not only is his right but his responsibility as an elected member of a separate but equal branch of the United States government.

CBSNews.com: But if you look at the history of a number of these wars, it's hard to find one in which we won without broad bipartisan support. Do you think it's possible for us to do what it takes in Iraq without unanimity even among Republicans behind the president?

Ed Gillespie: I think that we have to do something to rally bipartisan support at a time when we have brave men and women in harm's way. And it is hard to imagine sustaining a war effort without public support or bipartisan support.

CBSNews.com: Turning more specifically to 2008, why is so much of the Republican base — most of which, of course, opposes abortion rights, opposes restrictions on gun rights, and opposes gay marriage — for Giuliani and against McCain when McCain is the one who actually agrees with them on these issues?

Ed Gillespie: You know, different voters have different issues that are vote-determinative. A voter can be pro-life and opposed to government sanction of gay marriage, but still be supportive of somebody who doesn't agree on those positions because there are other issues that they care about that take priority. I haven't seen the cross tabs. I don't know what the dynamic is. And it's obviously very, very early in the process.

CBSNews.com: But it must be surprising to you that Giuliani's doing so well when it's been since 1976 that Republicans nominated someone who disagreed on these important social questions.

Ed Gillespie: Well, this is the first presidential primary, Republican president primary, since the attacks of September 11. And the proposition that someone who is more moderate on some of these social issues — Giuliani is testing that proposition right now.

CBSNews.com: So what do you make of the Los Angeles Times poll surveying 133 of the 165 RNC members that found Mitt Romney far more popular among party insiders than among the public? And winning the poll, in fact, with 20 percent of their votes.

Ed Gillespie: Well, Gov. Romney is a very appealing candidate. And he's been working hard, working the committee hard. And campaigning hard, and has a positive message, a conservative message — and a track record as an effective governor. It's not surprising to me that activists in the party would be attracted to him. I think activists in the party are attracted to McCain and to Giuliani as well.

I think it's a pretty wide-open contest. And I think (Sen. Sam) Brownback is going to surprise people in Iowa. I know that it's the business of the media, I'm not quarreling with you to speculate. But the truth is, there's not a whole lot of this that's going on in March of 2007 that is going to have that big an impact in January and February of 2008.

CBSNews.com: But a lot of early impressions are set now, obviously. Do you think that the sense that Romney has converted on a number of these issues for convenience, and not out of conviction, is that going to be a big problem for him going forward?

Ed Gillespie: I don't know. We've had candidates in the past who have changed their views on issues. You'd be hard-pressed to find a president who was more pro-life in his policies than former President Bush. And, yet, he ran as a pro-choice candidate [in 1980]. And so, I think voters are going to make their own assessment about that. But there have been many voters, and many candidates, who have changed. Ronald Reagan was a Democrat.

CBSNews.com: Do you personally believe the conversion has nothing to do with presidential politics?

Ed Gillespie: I decided a long time ago to take people at their word.

CBSNews.com: As the new chairman of the Virginia Republican party, you've seen Republicans lose two consecutive gubernatorial elections there, and an incumbent Republican senator, George Allen, lose as well. First of all, why do you think that happened? And, secondly, what are you going to do to rebuild?

Ed Gillespie: Well, in each of the cases, there were unique dynamics in those races, as is always the case in a campaign. But, at the same time, there are some factors that are making it harder for Republicans to get elected statewide in Virginia.

That's not to say it's impossible. In fact, I still think the odds favor the Republican running statewide in Virginia right now. But the dynamics are changing, and we need to act now to make sure that we keep Virginia in the red. That's one of the reasons that I wanted to serve as chairman of the Republican Party in Virginia — because we're at a critical time.

Every year is an election year in Virginia We have the General Assembly, all 140 seats up in this election. The Democrats need to take four Senate seats to gain control of the state senate. Whoever controls the state senate and wins it in this year will have control over redistricting in that chamber. We have a congressional delegation that is 8-to-3 Republican right now. It could easily be redrawn in a way that costs us seats.

We are, I think, at a critical time in terms of the U.S. Senate seat next year, Senator Warner's seat, which is important that we keep in Republican hands. The Democrats are going to come after the electoral college votes, 13 electoral college votes in Virginia. It's no coincidence that Jim Webb gave the State of the Union response this year, and Tim Kaine gave it last year. They are targeting Virginia. And then, in '09, the Democrats will try to keep the governorship for a third straight term.

So these next two years are critical for determining which party will dominate Virginia for a generation. I'm confident it's going to be the Republican Party. But we have to do some things in terms of voter registration, and outreach, and positioning of the party to ensure that. That's the process I'm engaged in now.

CBSNews.com: So what's the change in terms of the positioning of the party?

Ed Gillespie: I think you saw, with the Republicans in the state house and the state senate, moving a bill that meets the needs of voters in congested parts of the Commonwealth by providing funding to relieve traffic congestion without raising taxes. That's a great policy to run on — and a clear contrast with Gov. Kaine's call for a billion dollars more in taxes every year on working Virginians. Having a positive policy agenda I think is incredibly helpful. And having Republicans united, which, for whatever reason, we've had difficultly in the past coming together. We've managed to bridge differences and unite as a party. I think that's helpful to us.

CBSNews.com: OK, last question. I know it's hard to predict, but just sitting where you are now, which of the three leading Democrats do you think is their strongest presidential candidate? Who would be the toughest to beat?

Ed Gillespie: Well, this is going to sound like I'm dodging the question, I'm really not. I respect the process, and I respect the voters, and the fact is whoever emerges from the Democratic primary process with the nomination is going to be very, very formidable going into the general election in 2008. So, because I have faith in the voters, I tend to think that the toughest candidate will be the one that emerges.

By Brian Goldsmith

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