TONY DOKOUPIL:
00:10:07
All right, Jessica, thank you very much. Let's go back to Jericka Duncan outside the courthouse. She's been following this from the very beginning, and she's with Elaine Quijano, who we're going to talk to in a moment. But, Jericka, what are you hearing outside the courthouse? It's been kind of a circus out there. People have a lot of opinions. What's the scene like now? Right now, people are yelling. There are quite a few Combs supporters that have been outside, a lot of content creators. But I'm hearing from Alice Gainer inside the courtroom that Combs "pumped his fist at one point and he put his head up to the sky with prayer hands". So that is his reaction moments after hearing that mixed verdict. Also something to note, the Southern District of New York has a, I believe, 99% conviction rate. So for this to happen, a big win really for Combs in terms of the best possible outcome. But now we find out if the federal courts will continue prosecuting him on those charges, those counts that he was found not guilty for. But Elaine Quijano, you were in the overflow room where you can see the reaction from family. I know it was very tense in there. Describe what was going on? So just to give our viewers a sense, basically where we were was a couple of floors down from the actual courtroom itself, as you know. And what you see there are windows into that courtroom. So you have a camera that is not quite a head on, but it does give you the perspective of what it looks like from the front of the room. Right. So you could see him. When I was in the courtroom, you see the profile and you're in the back. That's right. But you're seeing Combs, you're seeing the attorneys. That's right. You're seeing-- you can't see the jurors, of course. Right. But you can see the family, who are usually in the second row? That's right. So what we saw, it was interesting. I'll just set the scene as the jurors were coming in. It was interesting to watch. Sean Combs, before the jurors were brought in, was seated at the defense table, as you said, a couple of rows up from where his family was. But he appeared to be looking through a notebook. He had reading glasses on, I noticed, and he was intently staring at either a book or a notebook, flipping through it in his lap. Then when the jurors were brought into the room, he immediately turned and looked at them. And when the verdict came, that very first count of not guilty, he put his hand to his head, his right hand just like this, and clearly seemed to be relieved. At that point, we also watched as the other counts were read. And at one point, we could see him squeezing the hands of his defense attorneys. The defense attorneys had their arms around each other, sort of side hugging each other. And then we watched as Sean Combs turned towards that row where his family was sitting and did a prayer hand gesture, like this, and turned back towards the front of the room. And Elaine, that is something that I saw throughout this trial. He would always look at his family, touch his chest, pray, prayer hands, smile. He was very engaged throughout this trial. There were moments where he would be writing notes to his attorneys when there were certain witnesses on the stand, maybe perhaps to help his defense, if you will. But he's been engaged. He's been very expressive. In fact, he got in trouble at one point because the judge felt like he was being a little too expressive and didn't want that to be something that the jurors were considering, as opposed to the facts. Yes, one more thing I just wanted to note. At the same time this was taking place, I was also watching where two rows up from where Sean Combs was sitting, as you know, is the prosecutor's table. And there, the row of prosecutors, had a much different posture. They had, for the most part, hands on the table, shoulders a bit slumped. I noticed that many of them, their gaze seemed to be focused down towards the table as the verdict was being read. So it was interesting to see that contrast. I mean, we were talking about thousands of pages of emails, of text messages, 34 witnesses that were called, eight weeks. As the judge said at the beginning, this trial will last somewhere between six to eight weeks. There was even a possibility of it going into next week if they could not reach a verdict today or perhaps tomorrow. But this has been a trying time, I think, for both sides. And what has also been interesting, Elaine, is to watch how friendly the defense and the prosecutors have been when they're not arguing, when they're not debating on behalf of their client, on behalf of the government. Yeah, one last thing I'll note as well. Just from my short time ago, being in that room, observing the scene there, I'm told that this was perhaps the most full that that overflow room has been. There were a number of members of not just the media, but just the general public who decided to come and take a look at what was happening. So they had to be audibly shushed by the court official who was in the overflow room because they were so vocal and there was so much emotion just in the overflow room. I want to read a note that just came in from Alice Gainer. Again, she's in the court room. She's able to use her phone. She said-- not in the courtroom where this is taking place, but in another courtroom where she can also see what's going on. But the defense is arguing he wants him released and able to return to his Miami home on Star Island. His plane has been chartered. It is in Miami. He does not have access to his plane. This is his first conviction, they said. He should be released. His entire family is here. Again, this is coming from the defense. Any of them can sign on to a bond. The judge said your proposal, we leave this courtroom and we walk outside. Defense says this is Mark Agnifilo's proposal. Yes, I know there are things marshals have to do to be permitted to walk out, but they're proposing for him to leave now. Judge says application is for $1 million bond, secured by three people. Defense says that's correct. Judge says he has relinquished his passport, asking the question? Defense says, we'll give him pretrial services. We want him to be able to go to Florida, Los Angeles, and New York. The government, to be expected, opposes this application. Remember, Sean Combs was arrested back in September of 2024 and has been behind bars ever since because he was denied bail a couple of times when trying to be with his family, when trying to wait until the trial as to whether or not he would be behind bars. A question that I'm unclear of, and maybe Caroline Polisi could answer this, because he does have the conviction on the Mann Act for both Cassie-- excuse me, I just want to make sure I get that right-- for Cassie Ventura, how does that work, because he was found guilty? And will he really be able to leave, as the defense is suggesting he should be able to? Jericka, I'll pick that up right there and bring it to Caroline. As Jericka pointed out, Caroline, Mr. Combs has been in custody since 2024. I see a bank of microphones being set up, cameras being set up. Someone is going to address the public here. Are we living in a world where Sean Combs himself could quickly walk through those doors, or is this application for his release going to take a while? It will take a while if he is released. So, as Jericka noted, he's been incarcerated pending the outcome of this trial. And any time he spent behind bars would count towards any potential sentencing. If he had been charged merely with those two Mann Act violations, he would have been out on bond pending this trial. So I think that there is a good argument to be made, that perhaps he should, as they noted, go to pretrial services, work out an issue, work out conditions on how he can travel and/or where he can be. It's not a crazy application. But yeah, he would have to go through-- the question by the judge, you're asking me for him to walk out here now, was, I think, a bit sarcastic because there does have to be some procedures involved. But I don't know if the judge will grant bail. I think that would be a good indicator on how you might see the sentencing go. This sentencing is really up in the air. He has no prior offenses, which puts him in the lowest category for calculating those guidelines. What you'll see is each side proposing a sentence based on those guidelines. Pretrial services will do an interview. They will assess mitigating and aggravating factors. I'm sure the defense will argue a lot of mitigating factors, including that he may have been addicted to drugs at the time, which should be a mitigating factor, that this is not necessarily again, in the heartland of a Mann Act violation. The jury has adjudicated him not guilty of force, fraud, or coercion. So they can argue that there wasn't force, fraud, or coercion involved in the transportation to engage in prostitution. So I do think we will get some jail time here, but that does not necessarily mean that he should remain in jail pending sentencing. Caroline, the money and power, the reality of money and power has hung around this case. And there's reference in this argument from Mr. Combs lawyers about his plane being chartered and ready to go in Miami. They seem pretty optimistic that if he doesn't get out today, as you say, because there's a process, it's going to be happening soon. Do you think their optimism is well-founded? I think it's founded. As I said before, this is a huge win for the defense. There is an argument to be made. Look, he's been acquitted of the most serious charges, one of which included witness tampering. And that was a big-- remember, for the bond hearing, a big argument that the government made to keep him behind bars was this potential for witness tampering. We don't have that anymore. There's been an adjudication on this case. He's not going to tamper with any witnesses. I think the defense does have a strong argument to let him out pending the sentencing. And sentencing, they'll set a date for sentencing. It's going to be a big deal in terms of what the government is asking for. But I think the government has to have their tail between their legs. This is just a huge loss for them. They went out on a limb and the jury saw it the way the defense saw it, which is that this is a domestic violence case. These are isolated incidents of a personal nature. It's personal drug use. It's not a racketeering conspiracy. So I think we'll likely see him get out. Pretty soon. Caroline, thank you very much. I want to go back to Jericka. Jericka, I understand you have more color from inside the courtroom, from Alice. In reference to that exact question that I had, the government is saying that Combs committed a litany of crimes, even when he was in incarceration, that he should not be freed until sentencing. They said the convictions here and standard suggests, your honor, should be detaining him until sentencing. But the judge then says, well, we're not going to resolve in this second, but we will resolve it while we're here. He said, we need to look at the statutes. The government, do you have an example where there's been a pretrial detention based solely on the Mann Act violation? So that is an indication that there is some discourse happening about whether or not Combs, just from a standpoint, legally, should be released. And we have another note. Thank you so much, Elaine, because all of this is happening right now. It says, government is saying it's going to be seeking lengthy prison sentence. Judge asked both sides how long they can put together a letter on this issue? Government asked for a few hours. The judge says, I think that makes sense. Mr. Agnifilo, I know Mr. Combs does not want to go back to the MDC, the detention center where he's been held since September. Combs shakes his head no and raises his prayer hands. Judge says, we'll convene in the afternoon. We are adjourned. Until then, I will notify parties. So essentially, the government is saying, give us time to put together our proposal, and then we can make a decision about whether or not he should be free. So will Sean Combs walk out of the federal courthouse today, that is the question. And of course, we'll continue to follow it to see what happens. But that sounds like it's a possibility. Wow. Every hour that he remains in custody must be agonizing for him. Jericka, thank you very much. I want to go to Jessica Levinson, constitutional law scholar, professor at Loyola Marymount. Jessica, the split decision is fascinating to me here-- guilty on some counts, not guilty on others. It feels like it speaks to the care the jury may have taken in going through these charges and weighing the evidence. How rare is this sort of split? And what does it tell you? Not. And it tells me that jurors do exactly what you just said. I'm going to pick up on that word, they use care. When they go back into that box or into that room, and they start deliberating, that they take their jobs very seriously. Tony, you and I always have conversations on big, high profile cases. How can you get a fair jury in this case? How can you get a fair trial? And the answer is that once you go through the process of selecting those jurors, once they sit through the trial, they've heard all the arguments and all of the evidence and all the testimony, that they do tend to do exactly this. They go count by count. They look separately at each piece of evidence, and they don't just make this kind of gestalt, well, we think he's a bad guy, so guilty on everything. So I think that we should have faith in the jury system, that this is often what happens. We often see guilty on some, not guilty on others, or they can't reach a verdict on other counts because again, jurors do take their jobs very seriously, particularly in a criminal case that's of this magnitude, where they know that potentially somebody could be in prison for the rest of his life. Jessica, human nature being what it is, if you put yourself in the shoes of Mr. Combs all of these months incarcerated, all these months in custody, waiting for a result, now he has it. These final hours must be so hard to process. Oh, absolutely. And, I mean, we have so much reporting from big, high profile criminal cases and the types that, frankly, we don't talk about, the types that don't make the news, where it's just agony at the end when the jury is deliberating, when your fate and truly the question of whether or not you will ever see the light of day is in the hands of those 12 jurors. And we had a little sense of what was going on yesterday, where they were able to reach a verdict on some of the counts. We knew that there was robust discussion. We knew that there was the possibility again, of what we've been talking about, the split verdict, and we knew they were going count by count. But yes, for him, it had to feel like time had just slowed down for these last few hours. Yeah, Caroline Polisi, we still have you here. Jericka had touched on how diverse this jury was. What does that tell you about the result and any other color from inside those deliberations? Yeah look, I personally am going to be fascinated if any news outlets can get any of those jurors to give interviews. I think likely we will get that. And then jury deliberations are secret for a reason and they're sacrosanct. We want them to be able to engage in robust discussions. But we got a little bit of color based on some of those notes. Remember that first day there was a note saying that there was one juror who could not follow the judge's instructions. Somehow, they got over that. We never know how. I would like to understand how they got over that. Additionally, at the end of the day yesterday, they said there were some jurors with "unpersuadable views on this case". Now, what happened in the essentially hour that they took to deliberate this morning to persuade those jurors? So I think those are the types of things that certainly in all the cases I try, whether win or lose, you want to contact that jury. You want to see what resonated with them. You want to see how they evaluated the credibility of those witnesses and see just what may have been weighing for their decision. Caroline, I think we're definitely trying to get one of those interviews with a jury member. So we will keep you posted. Meanwhile, CBSNewslegal reporter Katrina Kaufman was inside the courthouse as the verdict was read. And she joins us now. Katrina, thank you very much. Any more color you can give us? And also, we've been putting ourselves in the shoes of Sean Combs. But there's also the potential victims here. Are we getting any reaction from that side of the equation? Well, I just stepped out of the courtroom, but I can tell you that Sean Combs was elated by this verdict, even though he was found guilty on two counts. These are the lesser of the charges. They both carry a maximum of 10 years in prison. And as soon as this was read out, he began smiling. I saw him shaking his fist triumphantly under the table. He was putting his head in his hands and he was making prayer hands over to the jury and thanking them over and over again. He was so relieved by this outcome. He turned around to his family and told him that he loved them. And at the end of all this, they're still debating what he wants is to be released now. He's been in this detention center, and his lawyer is making a plea. He says now that he's not up against this RICO charge, this sex trafficking charges, which were the weightier of these charges, that he should be allowed to go home with some restrictions, with a bond. They're proposing $1 million, backed by a few members of his family, and with restrictions that he be able to go to Florida, New York, and LA. But both sides are putting together proposals for that. So we're not done with this day. Those are going to be turned in at 1:00 PM. But when Sean Combs left that courtroom, he turned around to his family and there was cheering. There was clapping. He was hugging all of his attorneys. He was telling everyone he loved them. He had led them in a prayer this morning, actually, where he blessed the hearts of the jurors and where he prayed for this not guilty verdict. And he was absolutely triumphant when he left that courtroom today. Katrina Kaufman, for us, with the perspective inside the courtroom. Let's go back to Jericka Duncan, who's been our correspondent on this from the very beginning of the trial. And Jericka, I understand you have a little bit more from what happened inside the courtroom in regards to potential prison sentence? As far as the sentence is concerned, again, we're going to hear more at 1:00. But Katrina Kaufman did a great job because she's also been inside that courtroom just about every single day. Actually, she has been inside the courtroom every single day. Someone, Alice Gainer, actually sent out a note saying that Combs turned around, kneeled down on the ground, and put his hands on his chair and prayed. As Katrina mentioned, just the fact that the courtroom erupted with cheering and applause and whistling. We know that, I believe, six of his seven children are in that courtroom right now. We've been told that there will likely be a comment. But to your point, Tony, there are a number of people who have been part of this process who do not feel vindicated at this hour, who do feel like the justice system let them down. So it will be interesting to hear what Doug Wigdor, perhaps, has to say about the reaction from Cassie Ventura, because he did speak after she spent four days on that witness stand and talked about why it was important for her to get her truth out. But again, we'll wait to see what happens. But we are expecting the family could come out here at any moment. And of course, we'll bring that to. As you noted, there's podiums set up. So whether that is from the government's position or the defense, we expect to hear from some people later today. But Jericka, regarding the sentencing, this has still got to be a high stakes and tense moment for Mr. Combs and all his family as well. We have this note here from Alice, I believe, inside the courtroom. The government still intends to seek what they call a lengthy prison sentence. Do I have that right? Yes, that's correct. I mean, they've been fighting this case. I mean, Maurene Comey was very clear about the law, about challenges throughout this trial, and I think that they see this as their best effort to see to it that he does serve the most maximum time allowed, which I believe is 10 years under the Mann Act. And whether that would be served concurrently or consecutively, I'm not clear on that. But they're going to fight to try to make sure that he does not walk out of this courthouse, that he is not a free man. And that's really what it comes down to from the government's position. Jericka, thank you very much. Jessica, I want to go back to you on this question of the judge's discretion here. The defense said in these final moments inside the courtroom that Mr. Combs has been given his life back by this jury. But that may not be completely true, because this judge will hear arguments and be in a position to put a sentence down-- that is, if the government gets its way-- quite lengthy. Well, that's right. And we don't know exactly what quite lengthy means. Of course, we have up to 10 years here. And I suspect that the prosecution is going to ask for something above the midline, above five years. Obviously, the defense will be saying no time, that he's had pretrial detention for years now. That this is more than enough, he's more than served his time. And so what typically will happen is there's a little bit more time between the verdict and the sentencing. Of course, now we have a split decision. We have a conviction on the less serious charges, where again, to remind everybody, it is possible, it is within the judge's discretion to say no prison time whatsoever. So what's the judge going to consider? Very briefly, as Caroline said, aggravating and mitigating factors. Is this a first time offense? Yes. And the judge will essentially decide what is in the interest of justice. Is it possible that we have an interview from Sean Combs sitting on a beach somewhere in one to two days? I think that is possible. Is it also possible that he is sentenced to at least a number of months in prison? Absolutely. And let's remember, even though today is a significant win for the defense, there are still two convictions on two federal crimes. This is not a full vindication of Sean Combs, and nobody wants to be on the receiving end of a jury, unanimously concluding, again, that he did commit these two federal crimes. Jessica, thank you. Let's go back to Katrina Kaufman, who is outside the courthouse. And, Katrina, I understand you've had some contact with Mr. Combs' defense team. What did you learn? So I left the courtroom with Marc Agnifilo. He is the lead attorney for Sean Combs, the one who gave that closing argument for the defense. As we walked out of the courtroom, he cried out really loudly, holy, an expletive I can't say on television. We then rode the elevator together and he told me, in 35 years, I've never felt like I feel right now. I'm relieved that I'm not miserable, he said. I think they were bracing themselves, especially after yesterday, where the jury had made a decision on four of these counts, but not RICO. I think they were very concerned. Also, just to add a little bit on your conversation you were having, the prosecution said in court they are seeking a maximum of 20 years because there's a 10-year max per each of those transportation for prostitution charges. They also raised the fact that the sex and the drugs, all of these acts that we heard about, the violence, they say that conduct, even though he ultimately wasn't committed for it, is related to these transportation charges, to those convictions. They also pointed out that while he was under investigation and knew he was under investigation, he was continuing to commit crimes. And this is something that the defense has not argued against. They admitted to certain acts of violence, to certain conduct. So the prosecution is absolutely gunning for the max here. But Sean Combs also, when that verdict came in, he turned around to his family and he mouthed to them, I'm coming home. So he is very hopeful that he's getting out of that detention center soon. Katrina, really interesting stuff. Thank you very much. Once again, as we await potential remarks there, we will summarize the breaking news we came on the air with. Sean "Diddy" Combs found guilty on two of five federal charges in his sex trafficking trial. The rapper was found guilty of transportation to engage in prostitution, but he was acquitted on the more serious charges of racketeering, conspiracy, and sex trafficking. With this verdict, Combs could still face prison time. Our coverage will continue on CBS News24/7,your local news, and of course, tonight, on the CBS EveningNews. Then at 9:00 Eastern on CBS News24/7, there will be a 1-hour special, Sean "Diddy" Combs, The Verdict. This has been a CBS News Special Report. I'm Tony Dokoupil, in New York City.
