60 Minutes Transcript: Donald Trump, the 2026 post-midterm elections interview
This past Tuesday, President Donald Trump's Republican Party suffered an extraordinary midterm repudiation – losing not just the House and Senate, but statewide offices in red states, from Texas to Kansas to South Carolina, that Democrats hadn't won in decades. In the past, this president has met defeat with claims of fraud and the effort to overturn the 2020 election. But when we met with him in the White House on Friday for his first sit-down interview since the midterms, we found him in a surprisingly reflective mood, and seemingly accepting of defeat. Our wide-ranging conversation covered: immigration and corruption, Iran and artificial intelligence, his potential successors and his own mortality. But we began with the election results.
Ross Douthat: Two years ago, you won a big, some might say historic, victory. Just now, the Republican party in the midterms suffered a big, some might say, historic defeat. Give me your political analysis of what just happened.
President Donald Trump: Well, number one, I was not on the ballot. But I campaigned hard for some people. And-- I think if I was on the ballot, it would've been a much different situation because you saw the level of popularity and love. There was love. We had massive rallies. You had to transfer those voters, however, to candidates that they didn't like. But there's something beyond that. They didn't like the war. They didn't like the fact that gasoline went up, 'cause I had it down at a low, and there's-- a great dislike, incredibly, for Israel.
Ross Douthat: Let's go through those then one by one.
President Donald Trump: Go ahead.
Ross Douthat: Start-- start with the candidates, right? You said it was tough to transfer your own appeal to candidates
President Donald Trump: Yeah.
Ross Douthat: But in a lot of cases, you picked the candidates. You endorsed Ken Paxton--
President Donald Trump: Well, I--
Ross Douthat: --in Texas.
President Donald Trump: I--
Ross Douthat: He had a tough time.
President Donald Trump: Sure.
Ross Douthat: You endorsed Darline Graham--
President Donald Trump: But-- but Cornyn--
Ross Douthat: --in South Carolina.
President Donald Trump: --Cornyn would've lost also. Darline, I did that in-- honor of a man named Lindsey, who was a friend of mine. And she fought hard. She fought hard. She really did.
Ross Douthat: She lost a very Republican state.
President Donald Trump: Oh--
Ross Douthat: To a very liberal challenger--
President Donald Trump: I won-- I won South Carolina by the highest vote in history by far. I won Texas by the highest vote in history by far. I won Florida who, by the way, I did endorse. And he's gonna be-- a great governor and a great senator. I endorsed both of them. And, had I not endorsed them, they wouldn't have won.
Ross Douthat: Why can't it transfer? You-- you were out on the trail, and you said--
President Donald Trump: It didn't transfer--
Ross Douthat: You said, "Vote like I'm on the ballot."
President Donald Trump: Yeah. It didn't--
Ross Douthat: And people didn't? Or-- or did they? Did they vote because they were mad at you--
President Donald Trump: No, they--
Ross Douthat: About--
President Donald Trump: I think they didn't vote, really. I think in some cases, they didn't like the candidates. And that's, you know, their prerogative.
Ross Douthat: Couple days ago your vice president, JD Vance, wrote a social media post where he says, "The reason we lost is the war," meaning Iran. And he said things in that post--
President Donald Trump: I don't disagree--
Ross Douthat: About Israel. Yeah. So you agree with his analysis?
President Donald Trump: I don't disagree with it
Ross Douthat: Did you know he was gonna write that post?
President Donald Trump: He asked me what do I think. I said, "You write what you're--" I said--
Ross Douthat: "Write what you--"
President Donald Trump: You write what you want--"
Ross Douthat: "Write what you feel"?
President Donald Trump: By the way, "What are you gonna write? "The only thing I wish he would've said there, if he felt it, and you'd have to ask him about that, but if you had to do it again, would you do it? You know, he's part of a decision-making process. And my answer is an emphatic yes because you can't let Iran have a nuclear weapon. I think, historically, this will be a very good decision. Is it a good decision for today and tomorrow? Maybe not. But you know, I have to go with what's right for our country. If they had a nuclear weapon during my term, I would be excoriated far worse than what's happened. So--
Ross Douthat: All right. Let's-- let's--
President Donald Trump: I've stopped--
Ross Douthat: Come--
President Donald Trump: But Ross, I've stopped them from having a nuclear weapon. That's a big thing.
The president argued that even with the Iran war, the U.S. economy in his second term has been very strong.
Ross Douthat: But in poll after poll, people say they're unhappy with this economy in a way they weren't in the first term. Cost of living, inflation, and so on. Is that all just the Iran war?
President Donald Trump: Well, it's not really the Iran war because the numbers are phenomenal. I think it was bad messaging, maybe by me, but I would talk about it all the time. So I don't know, how much can I talk about it? Look, the press doesn't cover-- positive news for Republicans. They don't cover certainly positive news for me. So I have to do it myself. I have to get it out there. We have historically good numbers. We have the highest stock market in history.
Ross Douthat: But why don't Americans feel it, that--
President Donald Trump: They don't--
Ross Douthat: Why-- why don't they-- 'cause they're--
President Donald Trump: Because I think--
Ross Douthat: Obviously, like, you and the press, you and the media, you and our business have been in tension throughout your career.
President Donald Trump: Correct.
Ross Douthat: But you still won elections, right?
President Donald Trump: Yeah.
Ross Douthat: So why couldn't you win this time--
President Donald Trump: I think it was bad messaging.
Ross Douthat: What was the bad message?
President Donald Trump: We couldn't get the word across.
Whether it was the message or the record, the Republican collapse will give Democrats in Congress new powers over budgets, hearings, and subpoenas.
Ross Douthat: You came out after the midterms. You congratulated the Democrats.
President Donald Trump: Correct.
Ross Douthat: You said that you were open to working with them.
President Donald Trump: True.
Ross Douthat: What is one thing you would like to work with a Democratic majority on--
President Donald Trump: I'd love to do something on immigration.
Ross Douthat: What?
President Donald Trump: Because-- well, so
Ross Douthat: Do you think immigration hurt you in the midterms?
President Donald Trump: I think--
Ross Douthat: Do you think the crackdown hurt you--
President Donald Trump: I think it both helped and hurt. I think I got an A+ for closing up the border. I get very high marks for getting the bad ones out. But I get hurt because we also took people that had good jobs, that-- that created one violation, or breaking of the law, and that was that they came into the country illegally. Now, there is a large part of the country that think that they should be put out. And there's a large part of the country that think that they should be allowed to stay if they're good people working in a landscaping company, or workin' in a hotel, or doing something, right? And in some cases, paying taxes. And there's a large group of people who think that they should be allowed to stay.
Ross Douthat: So you think your deportation policy--
President Donald Trump: I think it was--
Ross Douthat: Went too far--
President Donald Trump: Too tough.
Ross Douthat: It was too tough?
President Donald Trump: I think it might be too tough, yeah.
Ross Douthat: What would--
President Donald Trump: And-- and I think--
Ross Douthat: What does a deal look like
President Donald Trump: I think ultimately--
Ross Douthat: With the Democrats?
President Donald Trump: That hurt me. Well, the deal would be we would work something out. And I think it's something-- I think that's something that's actually doable.
Ross Douthat: Doable to create--
President Donald Trump: When you go into--
Ross Douthat: Some kinda-- some kind of legal status--
President Donald Trump: Yeah, Ross, when you go in--
Ross Douthat: For the landscapers and the--
President Donald Trump: Yeah. When you go into a hotel and you have a woman that's worked there as-- you know, as a maid, as a cleaner, as a this, as a that, as a waitress, a lotta good things, great jobs, and all of a sudden, they're being taken outta the country, it's tough. It's a tough thing. But there's a group of people that I would say on the sort of pretty far right that would like everybody taken out.
Ross Douthat: Do some of them--
President Donald Trump: Then there's a group of people on the--
Ross Douthat: Do-- do any of those people work in your administration? Are they in--
President Donald Trump: Yes.
Ross Douthat: The building with us right now?
President Donald Trump: Yeah, no, no. Well, there're a lotta those people. Then there's also people that are more modified on that. In other words, get the killers out. Get all the-- the rough ones out. Get the drug dealers out. But let the people that are here, and in some cases here for ten and 15 years, work a deal for them.
Ross Douthat: You think the Democratic party right now has people in it who would be interested in this kind of deal?
President Donald Trump: I think so, yeah. People have already called me.
Ross Douthat: So I'll say I saw James Talarico, the new Democratic senator--
President Donald Trump: Said very nice things, yeah--
Ross Douthat: From Texas, I saw him on Fox News. And he said immigration was one of the things he wanted--
President Donald Trump: Others--
Ross Douthat: To work with you on--
President Donald Trump: Others too. South Carolina said. Numerous--
Ross Douthat: You did-- you did--
President Donald Trump: Numerous people that won--
Ross Douthat: In the course--
President Donald Trump: Said that.
Ross Douthat: Of the campaign, you did occasionally call him Talafreako.
President Donald Trump: Yeah, I did.
Ross Douthat: Do you think you could work with the Democrats without insulting them--
President Donald Trump: Yeah, I do--
Ross Douthat: Consistently?
President Donald Trump: I could.
Ross Douthat: You think so--
President Donald Trump: I also call-- I also--
Ross Douthat: But you--
President Donald Trump: Call many of them Dumocrats
Ross Douthat: You did that just--
President Donald Trump: 'Cause —
Ross Douthat: The other day. If-- if it took six months of not insulting the Democrats to get a deal done, do you think you could do it?
President Donald Trump: Very easily.
Ross Douthat: Okay. That'll be interesting–
President Donald Trump: But you have to understand--
Ross Douthat: To watch. Do you think you could--
President Donald Trump: I'm here-- I'm here--
Ross Douthat: Do it if they're--
President Donald Trump: To help the country.
Ross Douthat: Do you think-- think you could do it if they're investigating you? If they're running investigations into your administration, can you work with them?
President Donald Trump: Well, I did it for four years. You know, I-- they-- what they did with me was-- there's never been weaponization. They impeached me twice. And there are those that say that worked out to my advantage. I mean, you know, 'cause
Ross Douthat: Do you think they'll impeach you again?
President Donald Trump: I can't imagine it, you know? They d-- hey, look, what have I done? I've had the best two years in the history of the presidency.
All this winning, according to the president, doesn't preclude some change of White House personnel.
Ross Douthat: In a previous lifetime, you were rather famous for saying, "You're fired" quite often.
President Donald Trump: Yeah
Ross Douthat: After a big midterm defeat like this, do you expect to fire anyone from your team–
President Donald Trump: I do. Yeah.
Ross Douthat: You do?
President Donald Trump: Little bit.
Ross Douthat: Little bit?
President Donald Trump: I love my Cabinet. I think they're good. But I'll do-- be doin' maybe a few changes.
The first change came an hour after our conversation with the president. Susie Wiles, the president's chief of staff, was replaced by Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller, the architect of the president's mass deportation policy. It's a move that seems to conflict with the president's professed desire to work with Democrats on immigration.
We asked the president about another administration official whose job security is the subject of speculation.
Ross Douthat: We saw Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth in the hall. He was meeting with you just before now. His name has come up a few times--
President Donald Trump: It has.
Ross Douthat: As someone people have called for his resignation.
President Donald Trump: They do.
Ross Douthat: Do you have confidence in him?
President Donald Trump: I do. Look, we've won two wars. We've won Venezuela and taken out billions and billions and billions of dollars already. And we will be taking out many billions of dollars and get along very well. And-- you could call it a territory, you could call it whatever you want. We won that war in less than one hour.
Ross Douthat: And you credit Hegseth--
President Donald Trump: And nobody was killed.
Ross Douthat: You credit Pete Hegseth for that--
President Donald Trump: No. But he was a part of it.
This past week, Hegseth released a long video message defending his own tenure and the prosecution of the Iran war – a war the president claims is essentially finished.
Ross Douthat: So you're not gonna escalate the war now that the midterms are over
President Donald Trump: Well, I'm not looking to. I don't think there's any reason to. I don't think there's any reason to. Look--
Ross Douthat: They still have nuclear material--
President Donald Trump: They have--
Ross Douthat: Right?
President Donald Trump: They have nothing. It's buried under thousands of tons of rock.
Ross Douthat: So what's the deal in the end with them--
President Donald Trump: The deal--
Ross Douthat: That gets--
President Donald Trump: The--
Ross Douthat: That gets the Strait open--
President Donald Trump: The deal--
Ross Douthat: 'Cause it's important-- it's important to stress--
President Donald Trump: No, no, the d--
Ross Douthat: 'Cause--
President Donald Trump: The strait is open. We have ships--
Ross Douthat: But--
President Donald Trump: Going--
Ross Douthat: But the ships--
President Donald Trump: Through--
Ross Douthat: That are going through are being babysat by a large U.S. military presence. So how do we make a deal--
President Donald Trump: Not a very--
Ross Douthat: That gets that--
President Donald Trump: Not very expensive--
Ross Douthat: Presence out of there?
President Donald Trump: Not very expensive.
Ross Douthat: We can just leave--
President Donald Trump: And--
Ross Douthat: Them there--
President Donald Trump: At the end of--
Ross Douthat: Indefinitely?
President Donald Trump: This whole thing, those countries that we've protected are going to pay us back any and all costs that we've had for the war 'cause without us, they wouldn't exist. Without us, Israel would not exist. Let me tell you
Ross Douthat: Israel —
President Donald Trump: Israel--
Ross Douthat: Tell me-- tell me about--
President Donald Trump: Israel would not exist except for Donald Trump because we went in with those beautiful B2 Bombers more than a year ago, and we hit the three sites at-- at the time.
Ross Douthat: But on Israel, do you have regrets about the decision to help the Israelis do decapitation strikes on Iran because that changed the Iranian regime, and it seems like it made them escalate. You could've just kept hitting the--
President Donald Trump: Well--
Ross Douthat: The nuclear facilities, right--
President Donald Trump: Yeah, you could've done that, but-- we had people that w-- would have gone further. We decapitated their nuclear arsenal. Look, I deal with these people. I deal with a lotta people, and that's what I've done my whole life. I make deals. And obviously, I make good deals 'cause I beca-- I made a lotta money and I became president. But-- you know, it's-- that's a deal too.
One place where the president's dealmaking has thus far fallen short is the war between Russia and Ukraine. Our interview came just days before Ukrainian, Russian, and American delegations were scheduled to meet in Abu Dhabi for the first time since February.
Ross Douthat: You came into office promising to make peace in Ukraine.
President Donald Trump: Yeah.
Ross Douthat: There is still a war going on. What's the biggest obstacle to peace?
President Donald Trump: It was the hatred between Zelenskyy and Putin. If I had been president that war would've never started. Zero chance. But it did start. So I inherited that war. I believe we're very close to making a deal--
Ross Douthat: Who-- who do you trust more, President Putin or President Zelenskyy--
President Donald Trump: Well, I'd rather not say, but I get along with both. I believe that that war is going to end, and it's gonna end soon. And the only reason it's gonna end is because of me. There is tremendous hatred between President Putin and President Zelenskyy. And-- you know, I--
Ross Douthat: Isn't it more understandable coming from President Zelenskyy, given that his country was actually invaded?
President Donald Trump: Well, it is. But when they had their first meeting there was great disrespect shown to Russia. So I'm not gonna say anything--
Ross Douthat: I mean, but balancing out--
President Donald Trump: Well-- well--
Ross Douthat: Invading, disrespecting--
President Donald Trump: Let's-- let's put it this way: the war never happened during my four years, and it was never going to happen, even though it was the apple of President Putin's eye.
Ross Douthat: Do you think he is stringing you along?
President Donald Trump: Oh, I don't think so.
Ross Douthat: 'Cause you've been saying over and over you're gonna make peace. And it just seems like he's the obstacle in the end--
President Donald Trump: Well, there's been nobody that's been tougher on Russia than me. Look at our trade. Look what I've done to them on trade with the sanctions and everything else.
Ross Douthat: You've gone back and forth. You-- at some points you have done lots of things, big things in support of Ukraine. But just recently you lifted diesel sanctions on Russia. Like, you've done various things to take pressure off Russia--
President Donald Trump: I didn't lift diesel sanctions. I made it possible for Russia to give not us, but to the world-- thousands and thousands of barrels of oil, of diesel, which it needed. Didn't-- do any big favor.
Ross Douthat: But you expect it to all work out with a free and independent Ukraine--
President Donald Trump: I think we're gonna have it done, and I think it's gonna happen and they're gonna end up with a little bit different shape Ukraine.
President Donald Trump has been the dominant figure in American politics for a decade. But now his time is running out. In the next two years, Mr. Trump will need to decide whether to endorse a successor. He'll have to deal with accusations of corruption, a major concern for midterm voters, over wealth he piled up during his time in office. He will make consequential decisions about artificial intelligence, amid fears that AI threatens the future of the human race. And all of this, in the shadow of the 80-year-old president's own mortality.
Ross Douthat: In two years someone else is gonna be the Republican nominee for president.
President Donald Trump: Correct.
Ross Douthat: I assume you're going to endorse someone for that.
President Donald Trump: Probably. Not necessarily--
Ross Douthat: Not necessarily? What would make you--
President Donald Trump: I've got so--
Ross Douthat: What are you thinking about when you decide whether or not to endorse someone--
President Donald Trump: I don't know, we have a tremendous bench. I mean, I have so many people that I have great relationships with. And-- you know, not necessarily--
Ross Douthat: Who do you-- who-- who would be on the list besides the vice president?
President Donald Trump: Well, I think Marco's great. I think--
Ross Douthat: Is he staying, by the way, as Secretary of State--
President Donald Trump: I think so. I mean, he certainly loves it and he's doing great. He's doing a fantastic job. The ones they think about, but there are many others and I'd rather not mention their names. There's some senators that are excellent. I know 'em all, I like 'em a lot. So I may or may not get involved. I don't know. Maybe I'm better off not getting involved.
Ross Douthat: Do you think you can have MAGA without you as the leader?
President Donald Trump: I think so. Because MAGA is basically common sense, you know? MAGA's strong borders, good military. We have created wealth at a level that our country has never seen before--
Ross Douthat: Including for yourself. There's a Forbes story that said that your net worth, maybe it's changed with the stock market recently, but your net worth went up by $3 billion since you--
President Donald Trump: Well, so did everyone--
Ross Douthat: --since you returned to--
President Donald Trump: Okay, you ready? So here's--
Ross Douthat: Everyone's-- my net worth did not go up by $3 billion for--
President Donald Trump: Well, you should've had stock--
Ross Douthat: --for the record. I-- I should've-- I should've--
President Donald Trump: You should've had stock.
Ross Douthat: I should've had stock.
President Donald Trump: Excuse me. So I devote--
Ross Douthat: How did-- how--
President Donald Trump: --I devote--
Ross Douthat: --how did-- how did it go up by $3 billion--
President Donald Trump: Well, let me explain. I devote almost no time to my net worth. I don't care. I make-- I have a lotta money, and far more than I ever thought I'd have. And I guess it's gone up. I don't even know. I have a son who's a very straight, good guy. He watches over money. I don't even talk to him about it. He watches. He gives-- they gave my money, I have a lotta cash, have-- had a lotta cash long before I came in here. I don't take a salary, you know? Do you know I'm the only, supposedly, I don't know if that's right--
Ross Douthat: It's very generous of you to the American taxpayer, but--
President Donald Trump: --I am the only president-- that didn't take-- every other president took their salary. I'm sup--
Ross Douthat: But this is-- all right, here's-- here's what I wanna understand. So your son manages or helps manage a cryptocurrency company called World Liberty Financial. You are--
President Donald Trump: Which-- which son are we talking about? Which--
Ross Douthat: --a co-- you are a co-owner of that company.
President Donald Trump: That's correct, yeah--
Ross Douthat: Right? That's correct, right? This company is also partially owned by investors connected to the government of the United Arab Emirates. I think if I told you that story and it was about the Biden family, if I said Joe Biden is the part owner of a company and it has all of these investments from the Middle East, you would say, "That sounds corrupt," right--
President Donald Trump: Well, he-- he did have a lotta different--
Ross Douthat: Sure, but-- but you--
President Donald Trump: But here's the difference--
Ross Douthat: --but-- but-- but why is it-- why is it different--
President Donald Trump: Here's-- well, here's--
Ross Douthat: --for you?
President Donald Trump: --I'm gonna tell you why. Because I know nothing about it.
Ross Douthat: But why do you--
President Donald Trump: I made a lot of money before--
Ross Douthat: But then why do you need the money? Why not just divest? Walk away--
President Donald Trump: Well, I-- I do. Look, most of--
Ross Douthat: But no, you didn't.
President Donald Trump: --my money-- most of my money is in g-- is given to the biggest firms on Wall Street to invest. and they're index funds. So it came out that I trade-- traded, like, 40,000 stocks. So among the stocks would be, like, they'd have a tiny, little amount. It's billions of dollars--
Ross Douthat: Right, no, I-- I--
President Donald Trump: It's billions, just so you understand--
Ross Douthat: --I under-- I understand that. But companies that are--
President Donald Trump: I have no idea--
Ross Douthat: --invested in by people in foreign countries--
President Donald Trump: I-- I-- I would like to--
Ross Douthat: --it seems like you could just walk away from that and then, you know, and then you would not be accused--
President Donald Trump: Well, I have--
Ross Douthat: --of corruption, right?
President Donald Trump: --I have, but you have sons where they go around and they build buildings. That's what they do. That's what I did long before I became president. I did it better than anybody. I was very good at real estate. I made a lotta money. But- but I have a company. My sons run the company. It's hard to say to them, "Don't do anything anymore for four years because I'm president." It's really--
Ross Douthat: But no, you-- but-- but you could divest from the company yourself and let them do whatever they want. That's all--
President Donald Trump: Well, but w-- how do we-- you di--
Ross Douthat: You're not, like, sitting in the Oval Office thinking--
President Donald Trump: Here's the thing--
Ross Douthat: --"Thank God I have that $50 million in World Liberty Financial"--
President Donald Trump: You're right Ross but how do you divest from cash? So I took a lotta heat because I think they traded, like, 50,000 stocks, because that's what they do. It's all computer generated. I have no idea what the hell they're buying.
Ross Douthat: --do you think the people-- the people who are investing in the company that you co-own with your sons, who are coming from foreign countries who want things from your government, don't you think they think that they are buying influence?
President Donald Trump: I don't know. But that's true-- look, every president has a problem. You have people and they work for you, and guys like you cover them, and you do profiles on them, and they become, like, everybody thinks that Trump loves them and everything else, which in some cases is true and some cases is not. This is true for every president.
Ross Douthat: True.
President Donald Trump: Going back to George Washington.
Ross Douthat: Yes, every president has not owned--
President Donald Trump: Okay, but here's what happened--
Ross Douthat: --a cryptocurrency company. However--
President Donald Trump: Well, but-- but they own something, whatever crypto was at the time, okay? You know, there's crypto and before that there was oil and the-- okay. And every president has had this problem. So you have a guy, a trusted aide, everything's good. And then the trusted aide says, "Sir, I love you so much, and I'll be leaving." I say, "Well, good luck." No matter what they do there's a conflict, because the president is all-encompassing, right? And this is not me. Every president that there's ever been, they have people, many people, I watch it all the time, every time you have a president, their top people, sometimes they stay. I mean, I have some that will stay right till the last second. Other-- but after they leave they go crazy. They go crazy. It's true for every president. Sometimes they'll leave –
Ross Douthat: I feel like there have been more people doing things like that while serving in the administration. But listen, I-- I--
President Donald Trump: Well, I'm a bigger name than other presidents, whether we like it or not.
President Donald Trump: There's another one of George Washington. That's the place of honor.
Mr. Trump has adorned the Oval Office with portraits of those other presidents, aware that the full history of his own unusual presidency has yet to be written.
And when it comes to the AI revolution, with its high stakes for jobs, national security, and human life itself, some of his most significant choices may still lie ahead.
Ross Douthat: I talk to people in Silicon Valley who say that the decisions you make around AI are the most important things that you'll be remembered for. That's what they think.
President Donald Trump: I don't know if that's--
Ross Douthat: And-- and--
President Donald Trump: --true, but th-- they're--
Ross Douthat: --at the same-- but at the same time, there is all of this anxiety and concern. You are an AI bull.
President Donald Trump: I am.
Ross Douthat: What does the average American get out of that technology?
President Donald Trump: Excuse me before I answer that. The reason I'm an AI bull--
Ross Douthat: Yes.
President Donald Trump: --one of the reasons is because President Xi left here two weeks ago. We had a great meeting. He's all in to SI, as I call it,
Ross Douthat: Yep
President Donald Trump: 'cause it really is super intelligence. It's-- it's a much better name I think, 'cause it's not artificial. It's-- it's actually--
Ross Douthat: Well, that at least--
President Donald Trump: --super.
Ross Douthat: --is what-- it's what they think they're racing towards, yes. So China--
President Donald Trump: What (UNINTEL)--
Ross Douthat: So we're in a race with China.
President Donald Trump:And if-- and I've said whoever wins that race wins. The level of power of winning that race is very important.
Ross Douthat: you had all of the AI tycoons in here.
President Donald Trump: Yeah, I did.
Ross Douthat: the people in the su-- AI industry-- I almost said the super intelligence industry--
President Donald Trump: Right.
Ross Douthat: You're working on me--
President Donald Trump: Right
Ross Douthat: --are weird. They're strange. They do things like stand outside their company and say, "Hey, we're creating this amazing company, and there's a 10% chance it kills--"
President Donald Trump: Oh, that's (UNINTEL)--
Ross Douthat: --"humanity." Like you standing outside--
President Donald Trump: That was--
Ross Douthat: --a hotel (LAUGH) and saying, "Here's my new hotel."
President Donald Trump: I know.
Ross Douthat: "And it might collapse."
President Donald Trump: I know. But that's (UNINTEL PHRASE)--
Ross Douthat: But you think that's-- you think that's fake. Why are you not worried--
President Donald Trump: Because--
Ross Douthat: --about the doom fears that the people--
President Donald Trump: Because we--
Ross Douthat: --building it have?
President Donald Trump: Yeah. Because w-- first of all, because China's gonna have it, okay? So if we don't have it, China's gonna have it. That would put us at an unbelievable disadvantage. It's all between us and China. There's nobody else.
Ross Douthat: But so we're racing China, and that makes it worth the risk? Or you just--
President Donald Trump: Well--
Ross Douthat: --think the risk is not real?
President Donald Trump: I think that the risk is not nearly as real as it-- as they talk. And I think the risk can be managed.
Ross Douthat: But would you work with the Democrats?
President Donald Trump: I would absolutely--
President Donald Trump: Yeah. Yeah.
Ross Douthat: On an AI--
President Donald Trump: I don't mind guardrails--
Ross Douthat: --on AI safety?
President Donald Trump: I don't mind guardrails. But I don't wanna put us in a deep second position. We're leading number one. And China has no guardrails, by the way. So if AI's dangerous--
Ross Douthat: Well, they have the guardrails of being a totalitarian state--
President Donald Trump: They have--
Ross Douthat: --right?
President Donald Trump: They have the guardrails that whatever--
Ross Douthat: Where everyone is--
President Donald Trump: --President Xi says goes. With me, it's pretty strong, but it's not quite that strong.
We asked the president about one of his more unusual flexes of presidential power – on a subject that's captured the public imagination.
Ross Douthat: Your administration alone among modern administrations has spent a lot of time releasing footage of UFOs.
President Donald Trump: Yeah.
Ross Douthat: Unidentified flying objects. Is there anything that you have seen or heard about or been told about that would lead you to think that there's something more there than just, "We're having a good time looking at things in the sky"?
President Donald Trump: It's so amazing that you asked this question, because it is one of the questions in private I get asked about. More people ask me about UFOs than-- I mean--
Ross Douthat: I believe it.
President Donald Trump: People-- people that you wouldn't think. People--
Ross Douthat: So what's-- so what's the answer--
President Donald Trump: So here's the story. I'm not too much of a believer, but I sat in the Oval Office, first term and a little bit second term, meeting with Air Force pilots that are really good, solid people. These are not people that you would say are conspiracy theorists. But they're great, great pilots. They're the real deal. And they've told me things that are very strange. They said that-- in-- in certain cases. They said yes, there's something going on out there. Because they're flying an F-22, which is the best there is, the fastest, the best plane that anyone's ever seen. And something goes by them at three times their speed and it's round. It's not aerodynamic, it's round.
Ross Douthat: So that's the mystery. But then along with those pilots there's a set of people who have styled themselves as whistleblowers who have come out and said, "Actually there's also a secret program that even presidents don't know about to study this stuff." Have you seen any evidence that that is the case--
President Donald Trump: No. And I haven't heard that. But if there is I'm gonna find out about it right after this interview.
Our last questions were about an even deeper mystery.
Ross Douthat: Let's talk about death.
President Donald Trump: Okay.
Ross Douthat: You have survived multiple assassination attempts.
President Donald Trump: I have.
Ross Douthat: One came very, very close to you. I imagine that that had some kind of effect on how you think about mortality.
President Donald Trump: Yeah.
Ross Douthat: What do you think happens when you die?
President Donald Trump: Well, I hope I'm missed. (LAUGH) I hope--
Ross Douthat: No, I mean-- I mean to you-- I mean to--
President Donald Trump: No, but I really mean it. I hope I'm missed. I don't know.
Ross Douthat: I-- I-- I-- I understand. I mean to you.
President Donald Trump: I think I've done a good job as-- I-- I--
Ross Douthat: What do you think happens to Donald Trump when you die?
President Donald Trump: Well, again--
Ross Douthat: Not your memory, yourself.
President Donald Trump: Okay. You mean where I go?
Ross Douthat: Exactly.
President Donald Trump: Well, I'm a religious person, so in theory I go to heaven.
Ross Douthat: Do you think you're going to heaven?
President Donald Trump: I hope so. I don't want to go to hell.
Ross Douthat: So I watched you at Charlie Kirk's memorial service--
President Donald Trump: Yes.
Ross Douthat: And Erica Kirk, his widow got up--
President Donald Trump: Right.
Ross Douthat: and gave some very moving remarks about Christian forgiveness, how you have to forgive your enemies and your opponents--
President Donald Trump: That's right.
Ross Douthat: And you followed her, and you said, and I know this was a little bit of a joke but I think facts come through jokes. You said, quote, "I hate my opponents and I don't want the best for them." Let's say you pass away, you're entering the next life, and all you have to do to enter paradise is feel love and forgiveness for James Comey, Nancy Pelosi, anyone who you have expressed hate for over the years. Do you think you can do it?
President Donald Trump: Well, then I wouldn't be real, would I? I mean, if I said to you, sure, the easy answer to that is "Oh, yes, I could forgive."
Ross Douthat: No, I don't think it's an easy question at all.
President Donald Trump: I found them to be extremely dishonest people, very bad people, very bad for our country. I love our country far more than I can love people and people like that.
Ross Douthat: Is the answer no then?
President Donald Trump: The answer is no. I want to be honest, no. I think it would--
Ross Douthat: Before the judgment throne of God?
President Donald Trump: Before the judgment. No, I think they were very bad people and-- I dislike, I can use the word hate, I do hate some of my enemies. I think they're-- they've been terrible. Look what they've put me through, the weaponization. I got indicted--
Ross Douthat: You have fought-- Mr.--
President Donald Trump: --I got impeached--
Ross Douthat: --President-- Mr. President. You have had the most charmed and remarkable life of any American in my entire lifetime, and you are telling me you couldn't find it in your heart to forgive some of your enemies? After all that's been given to you?
President Donald Trump: I mean, it's such an easy answer. All I have to do is say, "Yes, I can."
Ross Douthat: I-- I, again, I don't think it's an easy answer--
President Donald Trump: Honestly, Ross, can I-- can I be honest--
Ross Douthat: --that's why I asked it. Yes.
President Donald Trump: I probably cannot do that, no, because I do hate some of my enemies and I always will.
Produced by Andy Court and Graham Messick. Associate producers, Annabelle Hanflig and Alex Ortiz. Broadcast associates, Paloma Vigil, Novi Zhukovsky and Jessica Schwalb. Edited by Peter M. Berman and Michael Mongulla. Assistant editor, Aisha Crespo.
