Transcript: Rudy Giuliani on "Face the Nation," September 29, 2019

Giuliani: Pompeo said he was "aware" of Ukraine outreach

The following is a transcript of an interview with Rudy Giuliani that aired Sunday, September 29, 2019, on "Face the Nation."


MARGARET BRENNAN: We're back now with President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani who is called a central figure in the whistleblower complaint. He joins us from New York this morning. Mr. Mayor, thank you for joining us. 

RUDY GIULIANI: Thank you, Margaret. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Why wouldn't the president reach out first to law enforcement, to his own agencies if his concern was truly about corruption? Why bring this up in a phone call with the leader of Ukraine? 

GIULIANI: Well listen- I mean this goes back actually to November of 2018. I- I wasn't asking for this. Someone came to me, a very well-respected investigator, American citizen and told me that in- in- in Ukraine there were a number of allegations of interference in the 2016 election. That appear to be real and truthful unlike the Russian collusion hoax. And that it was really ironic that Hillary Clinton, the Democratic National Committee, our embassy there, was collecting dirt going back to the early part of 2016 on the Trump campaign, on people who operated in the Trump campaign, on the president and that there were witnesses, quite a few of them that would support this. And they've been trying to get it to the FBI for a year to a year and a half and they have been frustrated in- in doing so. So, having gotten that as his defense lawyer, I had to pursue it. They would not--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Sorry Chris Wray-- 

GIULIANI: talk to the FBI because they--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --the FBI director appointed by President Trump, you're saying refused to look at this?

GIULIANI: I didn't say he refused to look at it. I said they were afraid--

MARGARET BRENNAN: You just said the FBI wouldn't look at it.

GIULIANI: I said they were afraid to go to the FBI because they had been turned down so often. And one of the central figures in it is a FBI agent who appears to be involved in the gathering of dirt, work with a particular company owned by George Soros that was collecting this information. That company is one of the companies where Biden's bribery of Poroshenko. He got that case dismissed, people were ignoring that, that Biden played a role in getting these collusion allegations covered up. By having the case against AntAC dismissed. So it was all one piece. The reason I investigated it is-- 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.

GIULIANI: --as his defense lawyer, it's my job to show if there is an alternative explanation that proves him innocent--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well--

GIULIANI: --I got it to the point- let me finish. I got it to the point of affidavits. I put them all online. Here's one of them-- 

MARGARET BRENNAN: A- a- Sorry--

GIULIANI: --that--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --can we finish on- on- the first point--

GIULIANI: Here- here- here- here's one of them--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --you brought up because this is very complicated, Mr. Mayor--

GIULIANI: Well, I know- I know nobody wants to--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --I want- I want to respond to what you just laid out--

GIULIANI: I know- I know no- I know nobody wants to cover-- 

MARGARET BRENNAN:  --No I want to actually- I- I- want to bring up to you- 

No we did--

GIULIANI: --the a--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --actually CBS News and- and our partners BBC in Ukraine went to the prosecutor general to ask him specifically--

GIULIANI: Which one? 

MARGARET BRENNAN: --about--

GIULIANI: Which one? 

MARGARET BRENNAN: --about the Biden questions you're raising- the current one. Let's play the clip please.

(BEGIN CLIP) 

YURIY LUTSENKO: And I told Mr. Giuliani, "okay if you start your investigation in the United States, we can officially help you. According to international law, we will give you legal international assistance."

JONAH FISHER: Have you got any evidence that Joe Biden acted in any way which supported Hunter Biden's company Burisma? 

LUTSENKO: It is not my jurisdiction. 

FISHER: But have you got any? 

LUTSENKO: It is not my jurisdiction. I can't do nothing--

FISHER: But--

LUTSENKO: --which is not connected with Ukrainian law. 

FISHER: So under Ukrainian law you've got nothing? 

LUTSENKO: Nothing.

(END CLIP)

MARGARET BRENNAN: So that was Sergei Lutsenko who is one of the advisers to the current president. We also spoke--

GIULIANI: No- no- no- no- no--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --off camera to the--

GIULIANI: MARGARET, MARGARET--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --prosecutor general. Who says--

GIULIANI: --this is very embarrassing.

MARGARET BRENNAN: --there is no evidence there. 

GIULIANI: Margaret, this is exceedingly embarrassing. Mr. Lutsenko has been fired by the current president. Mr. Lutsenko is exactly the prosecutor that Joe Biden put in in order to tank the case and it is suspected--

MARGARET BRENNAN: You met with him repeatedly--

GIULIANI: --both he and--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --he says about this. 

GIULIANI: Well, he's not the current Prosecutor General --

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. I know I said the prosecutor general--

GIULIANI: -- as you falsely asserted-- 

MARGARET BRENNAN: The Prosecutor General --

GIULIANI: No- no- no--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --we spoke with off camera as well--

GIULIANI: --but you- but you failed--

MARGARET BRENNAN: and he had- to the Washington Post and other organizations said--

GIULIANI: Yeah, I know-- 

MARGARET BRENNAN: --that he didn't have--

GIULIANI: --well may- maybe- maybe--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --evidence of anything. 

GIULIANI: Maybe you all are so blinded because this is a Democrat you're not doing your job properly. The Prosecutor General you should have spoken to is the one who was fired, who has said in this affidavit that he was fired specifically because he was investigating Joe Biden's son. This has been online for six months. And the Washington media just closes their eyes to it. That's the wrong prosecutor general you're talking to.  

MARGARET BRENNAN: The prosecutor general you're referring to--

GIULIANI: Even- even- even a simple--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --is--

GIULIANI: --even- even--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --Viktor Shokin and that is online. You shared that with our team and we did look at it and he was called to be fired--

GIULIANI: Did you also--

MARGARET BRENNAN: -- not just by the United States, but other organizations--

GIULIANI: But- but he- he--

MARGARET BRENNAN: who said he wasn't investigating. In fact, he was fired--

GIULIANI: But he- he-- 

MARGARET BRENNAN: for the thing he- he- you're saying he- he wasn't doing.

GIULIANI: But MARGARET, he says the opposite under oath. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: In an Austrian court-- 

GIULIANI: He says the opposite under oath. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: --you're showing there, yes. 

GIULIANI: Did you also -- 

MARGARET BRENNAN: And that's a court filing--

GIULIANI: Also- also--

Margaret BRENNAN: --on behalf of a--

GIULIANI: I invite--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --another individual whose facing extradition--

GIULIANI: I invite--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --to the United States. 

GIULIANI: I- I invite your reporters, who I'm sure are interested in digging out corruption, to see if this isn't corroborated by three other prosecutors who say the same thing. The one that you interviewed is the one who was corrupted.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mr.--

GIULIANI: And there are a lot-

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mr.- Mr. Mayor-- 

GIULIANI: --of allegations about- 

MARGARET BRENNAN:  I want to ask-- 

GIULIANI: --other areas in which -- 

MARGARET BRENNAN: --you about something that has developed in--

GIULIANI: --he dropped cases

MARGARET BRENNAN: --the last few hours--  

GIULIANI: --including against Soros.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you because you may have direct knowledge here since you have said Kurt Volker, the U.S. envoy to Ukraine, set up those meetings you said for you with Ukraine's leaders. He has resigned. Do you know why?

GIULIANI: I don't know why Kurt resigned. I mean there--

MARGARET BRENNAN: He's being deposed this week. 

GIULIANI: It wasn't shared with me. Kurt- Kurt did his job honorably and decently. I think there are a lot of people in the State Department who maybe have questions about what he did and why he did it. But I should tell you, he wasn't the only one. He was joined by another ambassador who talk- talked to me, debriefed me, gave me information about what to ask Mr.- Mr. Yermak. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Who is that?

GIULIANI: I did not do this on my own. I did it at the request of the State Department and I have all of the text messages to prove it. And I also have a thank you from them from doing a good job, so--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Who? Who sent you that-- 

GIULIANI: I don't know why--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Did- did- did--

GIULIANI: --the State Department is running away from me--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Did Secretary of State Pompeo know you were doing these things? Did he ask you to do these things?

GIULIANI: He did not. Mr.- Mr. Volker did, and then Mr. Sondland did, but when I talked to the secretary last week he said he was aware of it. He told me that he was aware of it. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: So he- you're saying the secretary of state didn't instruct you to set up these meetings, but he knew what you were doing--

GIULIANI: Well, wait- wait- wait--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --when you were meeting with members of the Ukrainian government--

GIULIANI: No, I--

MARGARET BRENNAN:  I'm asking you to clarify that. 

GIULIANI: I'm going to clarify--

MARGARET BRENNAN: What- what exactly did Pompeo know--

GIULIANI: I- I think I clarified it, but I'm happy to say it again. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Please do.

GIULIANI: On Jan- on July 19th, 2019, Kurt Volker called me. Text message to prove it, I put it out last week. Would you please- would you allow me to give your phone number to Mr. Yermak who wants to talk to you to--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

GIULIANI: --to clear up the confusion about your canceled trip to the Ukraine. I said, it's up to you. You think I should do it. He said, "the guy's a straight guy unlike another lawyer--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

GIULIANI: --who- around the president, who's crooked." I said, I'm willing to do it. Let me check the guy out first. I called him back two or three days later. We arranged a meeting.

GIULIANI: He knew about the meeting. At the end of the meeting, I called Mr. Volker and Ambassador Sondland and I debriefed them. I told them--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay.

GIULIANI: --what I had learned and then on August 11, I had a complete debriefing. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Alright.

GIULIANI: At the time, they didn't mention the secretary of state. They don't have to. They're both--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

GIULIANI: --ambassadors and assistant secretaries, I think. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah. We--

GIULIANI: However, when I spoke- when I spoke to--

MARGARET BRENNAN: We have to--

GIULIANI: --the secretary last week--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

GIULIANI: I said, "Are you aware of this?" And he said, "Yes, I know about this."

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay.

GIULIANI: Quote. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you for clarifying that, Mr. Mayor.