Text Of The Third Bush-Gore Debate

Following is the text of Tuesday's presidential debate between Republican George W. Bush and Democrat Al Gore at Washington University in St. Louis, as transcribed by MediaMillWorks Inc. The debate was moderated by PBS anchor Jim Lehrer.

(APPLAUSE)

Before proceeding tonight, we would like to observe a moment of silence in memory of Governor Mel Carnahan of Missouri, who, along with his son and his former chief of staff, died in a private plane crash last night near St. Louis.

(MOMENT OF SILENCE)

LEHRER: A reminder, as we continue now, that these debates are sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. The formats and the rules were worked out by the commission and the two campaigns.

Tonight's questions will be asked by St. Louis area voters who were identified as being uncommitted by the Gallup Organization.

Earlier today, each of them wrote a question on a small card like this. Those cards were collected and then given to me this afternoon. My job under the rules of the evening was to decide the order the questions will be asked and to call on the questioners accordingly. I also have the option of asking follow-ups, which in order to get to more of the panel's questions, for the record, I plan to do sparingly and mostly for clarifications.

The audience participants are bound by the following rule: They shall not ask follow-up questions or otherwise participate in the extended discussion. And the questioner's microphone will be turned off after he or she completes asking the question. Those are the rules.

As in Winston-Salem last week, no single answer or response from a candidate can exceed two minutes.

There is an audience here in the hall, and they have promised to remain absolutely quiet as did their predecessors this year in Boston, Danville (Ky.) and Winston-Salem (N.C.).

Before we begin, a correction from last week's debate. I was wrong when I said Vice President Gore's campaign commercial had called Governor Bush a “bumbler.” That specific charge was made in a press statement by Gore campaign spokesman Mark Fabiani not in a TV guide in a TV ad.

BUSH: I'm glad you clarified that.

LEHRER: Now let's go to the first question. Of over the 130 questions we received from this panel, we will begin with one of the 19 on health issues.

And it goes to you, Mr. Vice President, and it will be asked by James Hankins.

Mr. Hankins?

QUESTION: How do you feel about HMOs and insurance companies making the critical decisions that affect people's lives instead othe medical professionals? And why are the HMOs and insurance companies not held accountable for their decisions?

GORE: Mr. Hankins, I don't feel good about it, and I think we ought to have a Patients' Bill of Rights to take the medical decisions away from the HMOs and give them back to the doctors and the nurses. I want to come back and tell you why.

But if you will forgive me, I would like to say something right now at the beginning of this debate, following on the moment of silence for Mel Carnahan and Randy Carnahan and Chris Sifford.

Tipper and I were good friends with Mel and Randy. And I know that all of us here want to extend our sympathy and condolences to Jean and the family and to the Sifford family. And I'd just like to say that this debate in a way is a living tribute to Mel Carnahan because he loved the vigorous discussion of ideas in our democracy. He was a fantastic governor of Missouri. This state became one of the top five in the nation for health care coverage for children under his leadership, one of the best in advancing all kinds of benefits for children to grow up healthy and strong.

And, of course, this debate also takes place at a time when the tragedy of the USS Cole is on our minds and hearts.

GORE: And insofar as the memorial service is tomorrow, I would like to also extend sympathy to the families of those who have died and those who are still missing and the injured.

Now, Mr. Hankins, I think that the situation that you described has gotten completely out of hand. Doctors are giving prescriptions, they're recommending treatments and then their recommendations are being overruled by HMOs and insurance companies. That is unacceptable.

I support a strong national patients' bill of rights. It is actually a disagreement between us. A national law that is pending on this, the Dingell-Norwood bill, a bipartisan bill, is one that I support...

LEHRER: Times up.

GORE: ... and that the governor does not.

LEHRER: Two minutes' response, Governor Bush.

BUSH: I, too, want to extend my prayers to the, and blessings, God's blessings on the families whose lives were overturned last night. It was a tragic moment.

Actually, Mr. Vice President, it's not true. I do support a national patients' bill of rights. As a matter of fact, I brought Republicans and Democrats together to do just that in the state of Texas, to get a patients' bill of rights through.

It requires a different kind of leadership style to do it though. You see, in order to get something done on behalf of the people, you have to put partisanship aside. And that's what we did in my state. We've got one of the most advanced patients' bill of rights.

It says, for example, that a woman can doesn't have to go through a gatekeeper to go to her gynecologist.

BUSH: It says that you can't gag a doctor. A doctor can advise you. The HMO, insurance company, can't gag that doctor rom giving you full advice. In this particular bill, it allows patients to chose a doctor, their own doctor if they want to.

But we did something else that was interesting. We're one of the first states that said you can sue an HMO for denying you proper coverage. Now, there's what's called an Independent Review Organization that you have to go through first. It says, if you've got a complaint with your insurance company, you can take your complaint to an objective body. If the objective body rules on your behalf, the insurance company must follow those rules. However, if the insurance company doesn't follow the findings of the IRO, then that becomes a cause of action in a court of law.

It's time for our nation to come together and do what's right for the people. And I think this is right for the people.

You know, I support a national patients' bill of rights, Mr. Vice President. And I want all people covered. I don't want the law to supersede good law like we've got in Texas. I think...

LEHRER: Governor, time is up, sir.

GORE: Jim?

LEHRER: Yes, sir.

GORE: We have a direct disagreement on this.

LEHRER: Just a minute, Mr. Vice President. I wanted to, you know, the way the rules go here, now, two minutes, two minutes, and then I'll decide whether we go on.

GORE: Right.

LEHRER: So what I want to make sure is we understand here is, before we go on to another question in the health area, would you agree that you two agree on a national patients' bill of rights?

GORE: Absolutely, absolutely not. I referred to the Dingell-Norwood bill. It is the bipartisan bill that is now pending in the Congress. The HMOs and the insurance companies support the other bill that's pending, the one that Republican majority has put forward.

They like it because it doesn't accomplish what I think really needs to be accomplished, to give the decisions back to the doctors and nurses and to give a right of appeal to somebody other than the HMO or insurance company, let you go the nearest emergency room without having to call an HMO before you call 911, to let you see a specialist if you need to. And it has strong bipartisan support. It is being blocked by the Republican leadership in the Congress.

And I specifically would like to know whether Governor Bush will support the Dingell-Norwood bill, which is the main one pending.

LEHRER: Governor Bush, you may answer that if you'd like. But also, I'd like to know how you see the differences between the two of you, and we need to move on.

BUSH: Well, the difference is that I can get it done.

(LAUGHTER)

That I can get something positive done on behalf of the people. That's what the question in this campaign is about. It's not only what your philosophy and what your position on issues, but can you get things done.

(LAUGHTER)

And I believe I can.

LEHRER: All right...

GORE: What about the Digell-Norwood bill?

LEHRER: All right, we're going to go now to another...

BUSH: I'm not quite through. Let me finish the...

LEHRER: All right.

BUSH: I talked about the principles and the issues that I think are important in a patients' bill of rights. Now, there's this kind of Washington, D.C., focus, well, it's in this committee or it's got this sponsor. If I'm the president, we're going to have emergency room care, we're going to have to gag orders. Women will have direct access to ob-gyn.

People will be able to take their HMO insurance company to court. That's what I've done in Texas. And that's the kind of leadership style I'll bring to Washington.

LEHRER: All right another, the next question, also on a health issue, is from it will be asked by Marie Payne Clappey, and it goes to Governor Bush.

QUESTION: Are either of you concerned with...

BUSH: There you go. I've got...

(LAUGHTER)

QUESTION: OK. Are either of you concerned with finding some feasible way to lower the price of pharmaceutical drugs, such as education on minimizing intake, a revamp of the FDA process or streamline the drug companies' procedures instead of just finding more money to pay for them.

BUSH: Well, that's a great question. I think one of the problems we have, particularly for seniors, is there's no prescription drug coverage in Medicare. And, therefore, when they have to try to purchase drugs, they do so on their own. There's no kind of collective bargaining; there's no power of purchasing amongst seniors.

So I think step one to make sure prescription drugs is more affordable for seniors and those are the folks who really rely upon prescription drugs a lot these days is to reform the Medicare system, is to have prescription drugs as an integral part of Medicare once and for all.

The problem we have today is that like the Patients' Bill of Rights, particularly with health care, there's a lot of bickering in Washington, D.C. It's kind of like a political issue as opposed to a people issue.

So what I want to do is I want to call upon Republicans and Democrats to forget all the arguing and finger-pointing and come together and take care of our senior prescription drug program that says we'll pay for the poor seniors, we'll help all seniors with prescription drugs.

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