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Full transcript of "Face the Nation" on March 15, 2020

3/15: Face the Nation
3/15: Anthony Fauci, Scott Gottlieb, Larry Kudlow, Brian Moynihan 47:20

On this "Face the Nation" broadcast moderated by Margaret Brennan:

  • Larry Kudlow, Director, National Economic Council, @larry_kudlow
  • Bank of America CEO Brian Moynihan
  • Dr. Anthony Fauci, Director, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases
  • Former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb, @ScottGottliebMD

Click here to browse full transcripts of "Face the Nation."

MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington. And this week on FACE THE NATION, as the President declares a national emergency over the coronavirus, we'll take a special look at the two areas Americans are most concerned about. The health and economic risks posed by the disease. As the COVID-19 pandemic takes hold across the country, the nation's top expert on virus, Doctor Anthony Fauci of the National Institutes of Health will be here. Former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb will also join us. And then we'll turn to the impact on our now uncertain economy as Americans struggle to adjust to the new reality. Is a recession ahead? Will the stock market recover? How will the hard hit airline industry cope with new travel restrictions and more Americans staying home? We'll talk with White House economic advisor, Larry Kudlow, and also the head of Bank of America, Brian Moynihan.

First, an update on the virus and its toll. In the U.S., forty-nine states and the District of Columbia have reported over three thousand cases of coronavirus. The death toll stands at least at sixty. Globally, at least one hundred and forty-two countries have reported over a hundred and fifty-six thousand cases with the international death toll now at over five thousand eight hundred. And there are now travel restrictions on non-Americans coming into the U.S. from twenty-eight European countries, including new restrictions on incoming travel from the U.K. and Ireland that will go into effect Monday night.

We begin with three reports from around the world. First up, White House correspondent Paula Reid. Paula.

PAULA REID (CBS News White House Correspondent/@PaulaReidCBS): Good morning, Margaret. This is a critical moment for the Trump administration but one that has been marred by mixed messages and missed opportunities to prepare and make tests widely available. After days of saying he didn't need one, President Trump revealed that he has been tested for coronavirus.

(Begin VT)

PAULA REID: The White House revealed yesterday that the President has tested negative for coronavirus after coming in close contact with at least two foreign officials who have tested positive.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I decided I should, based on the press conference yesterday, people were asking, "Did I take the test?"

PAULA REID: But Friday night when the President says he was tested, the White House released a memo from his physician insisting "…testing for COVID-19 is not currently indicated." It's the latest in a series of mixed messages from the administration as it continues to defy its own guidance on shaking hands.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Because it almost becomes a habit.

PAULA REID: And social distancing. But on Saturday, members of the press had their temperatures checked before attending a presidential briefing. Over the weekend, the House passed legislation that includes free testing, paid sick leave, food assistance, and expanded unemployment benefits. But no cost estimate has been provided for the bill which now heads to the Senate. The President has also declared a national emergency, freeing up to fifty billion dollars to combat the outbreak. That announcement made alongside top business executives in the Rose Garden helped stocks rebound Friday after their worst day in thirty years.

(End VT)

PAULA REID: In addition to those new restrictions on travel from the United Kingdom and Ireland, the President said he may also consider restricting travel here in the U.S. He encouraged Americans not to travel even domestically if they don't have to. Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Paula, thank you.

We go now to the heavily impacted community of New Rochelle, New York, and CBS News correspondent Meg Oliver. Meg.

MEG OLIVER (CBS News Correspondent/@megoliver): Margaret, this drive-through testing site is open twelve hours a day and has been testing hundreds of patients. It's the state's effort to keep people who could be sick out of health care facilities where they could potentially infect more people.

(Begin VT)

MAN #1: Are you here to be tested?

MEG OLIVER: A steady stream of residents drove up and lined up for coronavirus testing just north of New York City. Seventy-year-old Michael Myers (ph) told us he got tested as a precaution.

How are you feeling?

MICHAEL MYERS: We feel fine.

MEG OLIVER: He takes care of his forty-one-year-old son who has a spinal cord injury.

How are you coping with all of this?

MICHAEL MYERS: Day by day it's, you know, everyday things change.

MEG OLIVER: In Kirkland, Washington's Life Care Center, the emergency has only grown. The number of positive cases jumped to forty-seven more employees at the center Friday night. Hospitals are racing to respond, setting up triage and evaluating how many patients they could handle if there's an onslaught of new cases.

MAN #2: We would get them right into the (INDISTINCT), be treated right away without-- without a second thought.

MEG OLIVER: Coast to coast, drugstores and grocery stores are no match for consumers who rushed to store shelves for supplies. Apple and Nike both announced drastic action closing most of their stores around the globe until March 27th. Back in the containment zone in New Rochelle, Jerry-Day Jesus (ph) is struggling to keep his restaurant open. He's lost twenty-five percent of his customers.

JERRY-DAY JESUS: People in this area wants to just be get back to normality. Right now there's panic in the air.

(End VT)

MEG OLIVER: For now, this is the new normal. The governor's office tells me they plan to open a new mobile testing site in Long Island in a few days. Their goal is to test six thousand people a day by next week. Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Meg, thank you.

We turn now to London and CBS News senior foreign correspondent Elizabeth Palmer for an update on what's going on in Europe.

ELIZABETH PALMER (CBS News Senior Foreign Correspondent/@elizaplamer): Good morning. Italy still has by far the highest number of positive coronavirus cases in the world. But just last week the WHO named Spain as the new epicenter of the pandemic because the number of cases there suddenly rocketed up tenfold.

(Begin VT)

ELIZABETH PALMER: Normally, crowded Spanish streets are empty. The government has ordered people to stay home unless absolutely necessary. And Spain's prime minister confirmed on television that his own wife has tested positive. All across Europe, cities are eerily quiet. In France, Italy, and Belgium as well as parts of Germany, cafes, bars, and restaurants are closed as officials scramble to slow the spread of the virus. Schools are closed, too, and even the great landmarks like Rome's Trevi Fountain and the Eiffel Tower. Though Paris being Paris, the tough new rules didn't slow down left-wing protesters yesterday, facing off of a police. It's Iran that has the second highest number of cases on Earth. And it's now struggling to treat victims in ill-equipped hospitals. But, notably, nowhere is there panic. Instead, displays of solidarity--

(Crowd singing)

ELIZABETH PALMER: --like locked-down Italians singing from their windows. And in Spain, a mass ovation for health care workers manning the hospital frontlines.


(End VT)

ELIZABETH PALMER: Here in the U.K., we've still got far fewer positive cases than in most of Europe so the government hasn't, yet, closed the pubs and the restaurants and the schools. But it is clearly hedging its bets. For example, it's announced that it's planning to buy as many ventilators as it can get its hands on. Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Liz, thank you.

And we've just learned that the U.K. is now advising against non-essential travel to the U.S. We turn now to Doctor Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at NIH. Doctor Fauci, thank you for making time. I know you're quite busy. You said this week we are not at the peak.

ANTHONY FAUCI, MD (Director, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases): Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And this is going to get worse. How much worse?


MARGARET BRENNAN: What are the numbers?

ANTHONY FAUCI: Well, I can't give you numbers because it's really going to depend on the effectiveness of our response, and our response-- I mean, if you just leave the virus to its own devices, it will go way up like we've seen in Italy. That's not going to happen if we do what we're attempting to do and are doing. And that's--

MARGARET BRENNAN: How do we get ahead of it?

ANTHONY FAUCI: Well, the-- the way you get ahead of it is that as I-- as I try to explain to people, that I want people to assume that I'm over-- or that we are overreacting, because if it looks like you're overreacting, you're probably doing the right thing, because we know from China, from South Korea, from Italy, that what the virus does, it goes-- percolates along and then it takes off. So what we've got to do is a couple of things, and we're doing it. One is preventing new infections from coming in, hence the travel restriction. And the other is doing containment and mitigation within the country. And it is correct that the infections are going to go up. Our job is to make sure it doesn't do the maximum peak and actually blunts. Within that blunt, there will be many new infections. We want to make sure we don't get to that really bad peak.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And Americans' lives have changed dramatically--


MARGARET BRENNAN: --in the week we just went through and they are going to continue to change. People aren't supposed to be visiting nursing homes.


MARGARET BRENNAN: People are being told to work from home. Schools are shutting down.


MARGARET BRENNAN: Give us the reality check, though. What is the mortality rate and what is the recovery rate?

ANTHONY FAUCI: Right. Well, the issue is, if you look, historically, right now in the United States, we're collecting data, looks similar to what we've seen in some other places. If you look at the totality, China dominated that previously, the mortality was about three percent. Okay? That's quite high for any kind of respiratory disease. If you look at the other countries, it's somewhat less. If you count all the people who are getting infected and are not being counted because they're not coming to the attention of a health care provider, then mortality will likely come down to somewhere around one percent or less. But even that is serious. And that's why we've got to take this seriously, because if you look at the typical seasonal flu, it's 0.1 percent. So this is a virus that transmits readily. It's a virus that has a high degree of morbidity and mortality. And that's the reason we've got to do all of our forces. Now, if you look at the recovery rate, the recovery rate is minus what the mortality is. So if-- if the mortality is one percent it's ninety-nine percent recovery rate. If the mortality is even less, overwhelmingly, more people recover from this than get into serious trouble. There's no doubt about that. But we want to make sure that we not only decrease the rate of infection we protect the vulnerable people who are within that percentage that have a much higher degree of morbidity and mortality.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The President indicated that he is looking at travel restrictions, including--

ANTHONY FAUCI: Right. Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: --within the country. Should Americans get on a plane right now?

ANTHONY FAUCI: Well, it depends on what the reason for getting on the plane. Anything that's to my mind, particularly if you are a person who's elderly or who falls within the category of underlying conditions, you should really think twice before putting yourself in a situation where you're in a crowded place for an extended period of time.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You wouldn't get on a plane?

ANTHONY FAUCI: Right now. Me? For-- there are a number of reasons why I wouldn't get on a plane, but if I were not doing the job that I'm doing because of my age, I would very seriously think about not doing any travel like that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Should Americans get up and go to the office tomorrow?

ANTHONY FAUCI: Well, you know, it depends on the situation that you're in. To the extent possible, teleworking should be done to the extent that you could do it. I mean there are some jobs you can't telework. Let's be real. But if you can, you should. You should avoid crowded places. And then that's the things that we've been talking about all along right now. The CDC has a nice website. You go in, you talk about the different kinds of mitigations at different levels of involvement.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Don't go to crowded places. France is trying to close down restaurants--


MARGARET BRENNAN: --and cafes, and bars.

ANTHONY FAUCI: Exactly. Yeah.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Should that happen here in the United States?

ANTHONY FAUCI: You know every single day we meet with the task force, and we take a look at what's going on. And you don't want to make a pronouncement that no one should ever go into a restaurant. I mean I think that might be overkill right now, but everything is on the table. It may come to the situation where we strongly recommend. Right now, myself personally, I wouldn't go to a restaurant. I just wouldn't because I don't want to be in a crowded place. I have an important job to do. I don't want to be in a situation where I'm going to be all of a sudden self-isolating for fourteen days.

MARGARET BRENNAN: For those Americans who are now returning from Europe, how do we make sure that that doesn't allow for further spread?


MARGARET BRENNAN: How do you screen them?

ANTHONY FAUCI: You know I think the issue is if you look at what's happening now for people who are coming back from-- like the European countries, when they get back in here, they're having en- enhanced screening when they come back.

MARGARET BRENNAN: What does that mean? Taking their temperature?

ANTHONY FAUCI: Well, no, actually, just looking at them, seeing if they're sick, giving them a piece of paper. Here's a telephone number. Here's what you need to watch out for. Watch out for these symptoms. And, importantly, fourteen days of self-isolation if you come from one of those countries that are on that list.


ANTHONY FAUCI: Period. You come back, fourteen days of voluntary self-isolation.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Now, the federal government could invoke authorities to do things like quarantine--


MARGARET BRENNAN: --for places that are hotspots like New Rochelle--


MARGARET BRENNAN:--like Seattle.


MARGARET BRENNAN: Would you like to see that?

ANTHONY FAUCI: Well, it depends on the individual circumstance. The problem, Margaret, with my making a pronouncement what should be done you've got to look at what the situation is at the local level. I mean, for example, in New York City, in-- in New Rochelle, it's a very difficult situation up there. So Governor Cuomo made some important decisions, which in my mind, looking at what he did, were the right decision.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The American College of Surgeons has told hospitals that they need to prepare to cancel particularly elective surgeries.

ANTHONY FAUCI: Right, right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That implies that hospitals are about to get overwhelmed.


MARGARET BRENNAN: Do we have the hospital capacity to deal with what is coming?


MARGARET BRENNAN: And if we don't, what is the plan?


MARGARET BRENNAN: Is it to use military hospitals?

ANTHONY FAUCI: Well-- well, first of all, again, you've got to look at what the-- the bracket is of the possibility. If in a worst-case scenario, and I don't want to scare people, that you always got to consider. There's a worst-case scenario. There's a best-case scenario and there's something in the middle. We're doing everything we can to not allow that worst-case scenario to happen. If it happens, which I don't think it will, because I-- I can see the effort that we're putting in--

MARGARET BRENNAN: You don't think hospitals will be overwhelmed?

ANTHONY FAUCI: No-- no, I don't say that. I say it's possible that they could be. But when you say that people get frightened, but concentrate on what you can do to not make that happen. But if, in fact, there's a scenario that's very severe, it is conceivable that will happen. And that's the reason why you have things like strategic national stockpile for-- for ventilators and things like that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: There's concern about shortages of key supplies like that, ventilators--


MARGARET BRENNAN: --cotton swabs.

ANTHONY FAUCI: Margaret, we would be unrealistic if we were not concerned that that possibility exists. What we need to do is to--

MARGARET BRENNAN: But can you reassure the public that there is planning for those eventualities--

ANTHONY FAUCI: There is absolutely--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --I know you're saying it's the worst case.

ANTHONY FAUCI: --planning. There's absolute, hundred percent take that to the bank. There's planning to address that, but we would be unrealistic to not pay attention to the possibility that it could happen.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So millions of children across this country are looking at the possibility of not being able to go to school for at least a few weeks--


MARGARET BRENNAN: --possibly longer.


MARGARET BRENNAN: Their parents are going to try to figure out what to do with them.

ANTHONY FAUCI: Right, right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Can they take them to playgrounds? Is that safe?

ANTHONY FAUCI: Well, you know, it depends. If you have a bunch of kids in the playground, I don't think it's a good idea to congregate anybody anywhere to the extent that you--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Of any age, period?

ANTHONY FAUCI: Yes, of course. Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Because there is that perception that if you're younger--


MARGARET BRENNAN: --you're not as--



ANTHONY FAUCI: Yes, indeed, but if a-- if a young individual, a child, gets infected, they may do perfectly well from a physical standpoint, but they may bring it home to a person who is susceptible. So we can't discount the-- the issue of children need also to follow certain of these rules.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So if I were standing next to someone who was later diagnosed with the coronavirus--


MARGARET BRENNAN: --what do I do? Do I have to wait until I'm exhibiting symptoms, actually ill--


MARGARET BRENNAN: --before I can get a test?

ANTHONY FAUCI: No. Right now, if you feel-- if you are in a high-risk situation, and remember just being in the room, you know, six feet apart or whatever from someone--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Sitting having dinner?


MARGARET BRENNAN: Shaking hands?

ANTHONY FAUCI: Well, see, dinner is different. It depends. If you're having dinner for multiple hours with someone who has symptoms and finds out that that person is sick, that puts you in a higher risk. That's something that you really need to, essentially, hunker down, get a physician, call them up, get instructions of what to do. If you walk into a room and you find out three days later that somebody in that room was infected and was asymptomatic when they were infected. Your risk is very low, very low.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And in the circumstance, I need that test--


MARGARET BRENNAN: When will it be available? I know you've made the point. It's not just shipping them out it's getting them operational.


MARGARET BRENNAN: How long before that happens?

ANTHONY FAUCI: You know, I would hope, based on what we've heard from the CEOs of the companies that are now getting involved, that they're going to be getting those tests out there in an easy way, not only to be out there, but to actually get them quite soon. They're talking within a several days to a week to start to see it rev up.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So that means testing within several days or a week?

ANTHONY FAUCI: Right. But that doesn't mean you're going to be maximum because nothing goes from zero to maximum. So if the companies are going to get involved, the laboratory groups that do this for a living, when they get involved, it's going to go like this so that you're going to start seeing tests more and more available until pretty soon they're going to be quite available. But in the next day or so, you're going to find people are going to say, you know, I wanted to get a test--


ANTHONY FAUCI: --and I couldn't get it. That's going to happen. But the future, as opposed to looking back the future is going to be like this as opposed to the inhibitions we've seen before.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Several days or a week?

ANTHONY FAUCI: You know, again--

MARGARET BRENNAN: That's your timeframe?

ANTHONY FAUCI: --the problem with the pinning down to days--


ANTHONY FAUCI: -- it's going to be gotcha if you don't have it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, no we-- we-- we hear from a lot of viewers on Twitter and elsewhere saying they are concerned about being able to get this.

ANTHONY FAUCI: And-- and they should be concerned. But what we can say that now that we have the private sector involved, we're going to see an entirely different scene than we've seen the weeks previously, for sure.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Doctor Fauci, thank you for your time.

ANTHONY FAUCI: Good to be with you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we will be back in a moment with Doctor Scott Gottlieb. Stay with us.


MARGARET BRENNAN: And we're back now with former FDA commissioner Doctor Scott Gottlieb. Good to see you here. Back for another week.

SCOTT GOTTLIEB, MD (Former FDA Commissioner/@ScottGottliebMD): Thanks.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And you've been telling us sort of what to prepare for next. And I want to dive into some of that with you. You heard Doctor Fauci say they're coming, but they're not really here, yet, in terms of kits and availability to actually go and have it processed if you need a test. What's the timeline?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Well, I think we're going to see a dramatic increase in diagnostic capability this week. So I think by the end of the week tests are going to be readily available. They were- they approved tests on what we call high throughput systems, meaning systems that can run, literally, tens of thousands of tests a day inside academic labs or the large clinical labs like LabCorp and Quest. Once those facilities have those systems online, they're going to be able to process an awful lot of tests, and they'll have them online at some point this week. So by Friday, I think tests-- testing is going to be pretty ubiquitous.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Now hospitals are trying to plan for the future here. How are they positioned? Are there enough medical supplies?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Not if we have a Wuhan-style outbreak in a major city or multiple cities, which is my concern, that we can have outbreaks of that proportion in multiple U.S. cities. If you look at Wuhan at the peak--



MARGARET BRENNAN: So you're saying the numbers that we are seeing and have seen in China?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Right. In-- in a major U.S. city. Remember, Wuhan was the size of New York City. At the peak of that epidemic, they hospitalized about twenty thousand people. Ten thousand were in serious or critical condition and two thousand were intubated. To give you a basis of comparison, New York State, the entire state, has fifty thousand hospital beds and about three thousand critical care beds and about twenty thousand of those beds are in New York City. So if we have a Wuhan-style outbreak in New York City, that's going to overwhelm the system. So they need to be building surge capacity right now in anticipation of that possibility. Now, there's ways to avert it, but that's the risk that we face right now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Tens of thousands?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: We'll certain-- we'll hit-- we'll certainly hit tens of thousands of cases in the U.S. Hopefully, we won't hit hundreds of thousands of cases. But right now, if you look at some of the good research out of the Hutch by Trevor Bedford and others, they're-- they're saying that there's probably ten to forty thousand cases right now distributed across the U.S. I think the risk that we have in the U.S. is we're a much more mobile population. China was able to confine their out-- their epidemic largely to Wuhan. The risk here is that we have multiple cities that are seeded right now. And so we'll have multiple Wuhans. That's the bad-case scenario.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Multiple Wuhans is an incredible thing to say. The Pentagon came out and put travel restrictions on U.S. troops traveling domestically. They can do something like that.


MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you expect to see other government agencies and should Americans be expected to, essentially, be on lockdown?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Look, there-- there's no question that the steps we're taking right now or is changing the course of this epidemic. We're already impacting this. But I think we need to do much more. And so think steps like banning government employees from nonessential travel or state employees that will have an additional impact. We need to be doing all of these things leaning very hard into this. The best-case scenario is we look back a month from now and we say to ourselves, well, we overreacted. You want to be in a position and Doctor Fauci made this point as well. You want to be in a position to say we-- we-- we overreacted. It wasn't as bad as we thought it was going to be. But this is a once-in-a-generation pathogen. We have never seen anything like this before in modern times. This is going to-- this is going to be historic right now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So should cities like Seattle and New Rochelle that are hot spots be on lockdown?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: I don't think we can quarantine a U.S. city and lock it down and deny people their liberty in this country. I think what we can do is slow economic activity to a point where people have no place to go. If you close the theaters and you close the restaurants, you close large gatherings, you tell people not to have dinner parties, you tell businesses to have nonessential workers telework, people stay home. There's no place to go. I think that's the solution in the United States not to-- not to put a city on lockdown. I don't think we're going to get there. We might. I hope not.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Is a-- is what New York state doing a model for the rest of the country?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: I think Andrew Cuomo has been leading very far ahead. I think he's been very aggressive in doing a good job. I'm concerned that the city hasn't closed public schools. Private schools are closed. Public schools are not.


SCOTT GOTTLIEB: And you do start to worry that people's ability to protect themselves is going to break along socioeconomic lines where lower income Americans will not have the same opportunities that middle-wage and higher-wage earners will because they can telework, they send their kids to private school, they're in suburban districts that closed.


SCOTT GOTTLIEB: That's got to be a concern.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we will talk about that ahead with-- with Larry Kudlow and others. But I want to take a quick break and come back. On the health risks, more conversation with Doctor Scott Gottlieb. And some of your questions answered ahead. Stay with us.


MARGARET BRENNAN: For more information on what you can do to stay safe during the coronavirus crisis please go to our website, or check with the CDC.


MARGARET BRENNAN: Coming up, more on the health risks of coronavirus, plus, a look at its impact on the economy. Stay with us.


MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION. We are back now with more from the former head of the FDA Doctor Scott Gottlieb. And then we will take a look at the economic impact of the coronavirus crisis as lives across this country have changed in the course of this week.

Doctor, we were talking about hospitals being, basically, able to help people if they get the virus or anything else. Are they going to be overwhelmed? We are starting to see things like pictures of tents set up outside of hospitals. Is that something other hospitals should be doing, either isolating or changing triage, or is this about simply not having enough beds?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Well, hospitals have emergency protocols, and they're implementing those right now. And that's very prudent, trying to build facilities to offload some of their capacity from the hospital on to other sites so that ERs don't get overrun. We have about a million hospital beds in this country, about a hundred thousand are critical care beds, fifty thousand of those are medical intensive care unit beds. At any one time, most of those ICU beds are filled. And hospitals are about seventy-eight--- seventy percent occupied. So we don't have a lot of excess capacity. We also don't have a lot of capacity with excess respirators. There is about sixty thousand full-featured respirators in the country, about eighty-nine hundred in stockpile. So if we do have multiple epidemics in multiple large U.S. cities, the system will become overwhelmed. I think we can handle a-- a Wuhan in one major U.S. city and pulse resources into that. What I worry about, again, is multiple cities having that kind of an outbreak.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Because if you don't have enough ventilators or other equipment, doctors have to start making choices about who gets what.

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Unfortunately, there's about--

MARGARET BRENNAN: How do you do that?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: --there's about a hundred thousand other ventilators that aren't full-featured ventilators, but could be used in a pinch. And so what we need to do is try to free up capacity right now. And that's what you see hospitals doing. And that's what they're doing with these tents and these surge facilities. They need to start discharging patients where they can, not doing elective procedures so they're not bringing in patients. These are hard economic decisions for the hospitals, but this is absolutely what they have to be doing. And we have time to do it. We-- we do have three or four weeks if we're going to be on that trajectory that China was on to build that surge capacity right now. China did just about everything wrong leading into their lockdown and they still were able to get control of their-- their epidemic there. We do have an opportunity now, but every day counts. Every day matters.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Is the White House listening to you? The President mentioned you by name this week.

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Look, I've had-- I've been fortunate to have the opportunity to talk to officials in the White House all through this. Some-- some of the calls that I was making to and the conversations I was having go back to January. They've been on top of this. I mean they have been concerned about this. I've been talking to White House staff--


SCOTT GOTTLIEB: --and the staff has been concerned about this and so I'm going to continue to try to provide whatever help I can.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right. Doctor Gottlieb, thank you.

SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Thanks a lot.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Good to have you with us once again.

And we're going to turn now to the director of the White House National Economic Council, Larry Kudlow. Good to have you here.

LARRY KUDLOW (National Economic Council Director/@larry_kudlow): Thank you, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: American lives changed dramatically. There is an economic impact to all of this. People are worried about paychecks and the like.


MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you, specifically, about the bill that the House has passed that would provide paid leave and other assurances. When do you expect the Senate to vote and for the President to actually sign it into law?

LARRY KUDLOW: Well, it would be a big help. It may not be a perfect bill, but it gets done. Essentially, what we wanted to get done, take care of individuals, people on hourly wages, families, kids home. If your spouse is home. A lot of people may have to stay home in the weeks ahead. We want them to get paid. And--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Is the Senate already scheduling a vote? And will it be on the President's desk within days?

LARRY KUDLOW: This-- this-- well, I think the Senate is going to work on it tomorrow. I-- I hate to predict that legislative calendar, but I think there is an urgency to this, something we've pushed from the very beginning. You know, again, it's about-- it's about helping families and middle-income- and blue-collar-type folks. They should not be penalized financially. And we don't want to force them to go outdoors when they should be indoors. So I-- I think this would be a big plus. And, yes, I think the Senate will get it done pretty rapidly.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. Some big corporations already have paid leave policies.


MARGARET BRENNAN: But this bill doesn't apply to--

LARRY KUDLOW: Small, medium businesses.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Small, medium--

LARRY KUDLOW: This is really impacting--

MARGARET BRENNAN: If you have five hundred employees and above, you're not impacted by this bill. Why? How do you guarantee that the people who fall into these categories will still be able to take leave, go home, and put food on their table--


MARGARET BRENNAN: --and afford to do what the government is telling them to do?

LARRY KUDLOW: Fall into which categories, Margaret, the lower category?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you have-- if you're fifty employees or less, you can have a hardship exemption--

LARRY KUDLOW: That's correct.

MARGARET BRENNAN: --if you're five hundred or more employees, this doesn't--

LARRY KUDLOW: You qualify for-- if you're five hundred or less--

MARGARET BRENNAN: If you're in that middle range, you're impacted--

LARRY KUDLOW: --you qualify.

MARGARET BRENNAN: If you're above that, you're not required--

LARRY KUDLOW: And that includes self-- that includes self-employed people also. It's very important. Well, look, the last word on that, we don't know, yet. I mean if larger companies get into trouble, we will be looking at the possibilities using the full powers of the federal government, which are quite substantial during an emergency declaration like this. We will be look to helping any individuals who might get left behind or might have a danger of getting left behind. You know, in this bill, free testing, I think is a very big thing. And I also think the food stamp additions, particularly, if kids have to come home because the schools are closed down. So we will-- we have lots of ways and means to make sure nobody falls through the cracks here.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The President speaking to grocers today I saw on the schedule. If you go into a lot of grocery stores, there are empty shelves right now. What is the supply line like? Can you guarantee people that they will be able to stay home and feed themselves?

LARRY KUDLOW: Well, I'm going to say yes. Knowing there may be some exceptions to this. I've now-- I've read about some situations where this is a difficulty, but most of our supply lines are working pretty well in the domestic United States. If I may make a point. I mean, there's a huge economic challenge here. Do not get me wrong, a huge economic challenge. On the other hand, most of America is still working. There was a good story in the journal yesterday about this. Factories are not shutting down across the country, at least not yet.


LARRY KUDLOW: The employment story, which may become more tenuous in the weeks ahead. I understand that. Nonetheless, a lot of CEOs I talked to, they are doing everything they can. I-- I've just talked to somebody, a CEO of a big car company not to lay off anybody. So, I--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you have projections on possible layoffs? What is the White House preparing for?

LARRY KUDLOW: I'm not going to put numbers out this morning. I would just say--


LARRY KUDLOW: We're-- we're looking at everything right now--


LARRY KUDLOW: --as best we can. You know, so much of this-- because of the unusual nature of this virus, so much of this is new. It's very hard to model stuff--


LARRY KUDLOW: --you don't have much experience with. We're going to-- my view, we go day by day, fact by fact, report by report, phone call by phone call. But I do want to make this point: across the board in order to assist, I call it fiscal assistance, in order to assist individuals and families and small business, we've put on the board four hundred billion dollars already.


LARRY KUDLOW: And that includes the paid family leave that you're talking about before.


LARRY KUDLOW: It also includes small business assistance.


LARRY KUDLOW: Very large significant sum. It also includes deferred tax payments with no interest penalties.

MARGARET BRENNAN: What about the travel-related industries?

LARRY KUDLOW: Well, it all--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you looking at a bailout--

LARRY KUDLOW: But let me also-- but let--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --for airlines? Like loan guarantees?

LARRY KUDLOW: Before I get to the bailout, I also want to mention some other important areas here. President is going to-- by executive order I reckon, we will defer the interest on student loans--


LARRY KUDLOW: --for the rest of the year. Also because of the mishmash between Saudi Arabia and Russia, we want to put our energy people out of business. They never will. We are purchasing--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Purchasing for the--

LARRY KUDLOW: --seventy-five million barrels from the Strategic--


LARRY KUDLOW: --Petroleum Reserve.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But you said-- I just want to clarify, you did use the word bailout.

LARRY KUDLOW: No, I did not.

MARGARET BRENNAN: What is-- well, what is it that you were preparing to do for the travel-related industries? Is it loan guarantees? Can airlines plan on that?

LARRY KUDLOW: It could be. Look, we're talking to the airlines. Treasury Secretary Mnuchin is deeply involved. We talk every day.


LARRY KUDLOW: We're going to go up to the Hill this week. We will have a number of new proposals with respect to the airlines.


LARRY KUDLOW: We've got issues on cruise ships. We've got issues on the whole leisure story. But I-- I just feel, look, this is a story that will be very challenging in the short run.


LARRY KUDLOW: But, Margaret, this is not a story of years. This is a story of weeks and months.


LARRY KUDLOW: We come in-- strong economies by all accounts.


LARRY KUDLOW: And I think by the end of this year we will be back to a strong economy. But we're taking these fiscal assistance measures just to make sure. And please--


LARRY KUDLOW: --I don't want to leave out, the President strongly supports the payroll tax holiday.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah, which is not his bill.

LARRY KUDLOW: Which would be enormous benefit--

MARGARET BRENNAN: But we'll talk. Okay.

LARRY KUDLOW: --to the middle-class and blue-collar workers.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we'll have to see.

LARRY KUDLOW: It would be an enormous benefit.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we'll look for you to put that to Congress. It's not in the current bill. We have to leave it there.

LARRY KUDLOW: Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: When we come back, the CEO of Bank of America, Brian Moynihan, will join us.


MARGARET BRENNAN: And we're back with the head of America's second largest bank, Bank of America's CEO Brian Moynihan. Good to have you here.

BRIAN MOYNIHAN (Bank of America CEO): Great to be here, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You run one of the biggest banks in the country. You met with the President this week. This has been a swift change in Americans' lives. Are we on the brink of a financial crisis?

BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Well, I think let's step back and think about what we have here. Number one, this is a health care crisis and a humanitarian crisis. And we can't forget that we have to take care of people and handle that first. And, by the way, that's the answer to the large-- larger question. And I think I'd think about three things. This is a war. We're in a war to contain this virus. The interesting thing is everybody has the same common enemy across the whole world. So the question of how we do that as employers, as private sector, public sector, everybody is key. And so we have to drive that. The second thing going to your question of banking industry is big bank industry comes in with capital liquidity that is so different than the last crisis. The question is we have to use it wisely. And we have to manage the companies well in times of stress. And this is a quick change from what was going on as a solidly growing economy. And the third thing is as a company, we have to take care of our own. So our teammates and our customers and clients, we have to continue to provide the services we do. We have forty-three hundred branches open every day.


BRIAN MOYNIHAN: The markets are trading every day. The wires have trillions of dollars moving through the system every day, are going on. But at the same time, as employer, we have to take precautions to meet our part of the war, which is to get our teammates socially distanced, to go back to central operations to make sure we work. So it's those three key points. And you can't forget that this is a health care crisis, and we care that, the economic issues will go away quickly.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. And-- and it's that uncertainty of not knowing when and where that is-- is weighing on everyone so much. You said your bank is going to treat this like a natural disaster--


MARGARET BRENNAN: --and help consumers. What, specifically, does that mean? If someone can't make their mortgage payment or pay their credit card, what are you doing for them?

BRIAN MOYNIHAN: They call the number on the card and they say, I am affected by the disease, and I can't make my payment. We defer the payment. We've done it. We did it for the employee-- government employees that were shut down. We've done it for every natural disaster. But we're not alone as a company. The whole industry does this. This is what we do. And then with small businesses and others, when they have, you know, issues in terms of cash flow, they come to us and we help work through it. So the idea is you don't want people to be penalized, much like the bill in Congress is trying to take care-- if you think about you're in a war and you have to deal with the people who are going to fall out of that, and-- and the question is the people in Congress, as Larry was just talking about, they are trying to deal with that more systematically--health care or health leave benefits, unemployment benefits. We're trying to deal with the other side which is I can't make my payment. Call us, and we'll make it right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And then the consumers are the engine of this economy.


MARGARET BRENNAN: People are scared.


MARGARET BRENNAN: Not just looking at the market. When they're told to go home--


MARGARET BRENNAN: --when they can't get food at the grocery store, when they don't know when their next paycheck is coming, how is it that you can be confident the economy is going to come back when we don't know when this is going to end? We don't know how many jobs are going to be lost.

BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Well, there's-- there's some interesting things to think about. One is what's really going on as of today. So we see the data of consumer spending and-- on things and goods and services and we watch it every day. And the aggregate number year over year is still up ten percent plus--



MARGARET BRENNAN: But people are just now--


MARGARET BRENNAN: --social distancing.

BRIAN MOYNIHAN: And so-- so what you're going to say is what happens next?


BRIAN MOYNIHAN: And, obviously, travel, the cruise industry, movies, things like that are-- are, you know, changing dramatically. Restaurants, you're hearing the reports of that. So that-- so that's all in front of us. But right now, it hasn't had the impact people think. And so that's the question. But if you asked yourself, what are we trying to do? You heard Doctor Fauci talk about sort of flattening the curve.


BRIAN MOYNIHAN: It's the inverse of that for us as bank-- the banking system we're trying to make sure the trough stays as high as it can. That it doesn't go down as much that--

MARGARET BRENNAN: But other banks are-- are predicting a recession. That's two quarters--


MARGARET BRENNAN: --of decline.

BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Right. And I think, you know, our-- our experts who are the leading research firm in the world. You know, it's, basically, a 1.2 for the U.S. Now, that will be a tale of four-quarters that are different--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Economic growth.

BRIAN MOYNIHAN: You'll have growth in the first quarter then it'll go down, you know, maybe flat. But although they've gone from 1.7 percent to 1.2 percent, so they've come down. But they're saying it recovers given the health care crisis being solved. But one-- and one of the things you're going to look at is what's happening in China. We talk to our clients in China, and we had teammates in China, in Hong Kong and places like that. This was an issue in January of social distancing and separation. Eighty percent of employees are back to work at our--

MARGARET BRENNAN: The factories are-- are-- we see propaganda photos. You're saying it's real? China is going back to work?

BRIAN MOYNIHAN: I'm-- I'm talking about clients of ours who employ, have factories in China are back sixty, seventy, eighty percent, which is good news because the supply chain of goods is there. The question then, is will the demand--


BRIAN MOYNIHAN: --in the United States and Europe be there? And that's coming down to solving the health care crisis.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And-- and that all matters because that's the second largest economy in the world. It is huge to how our-- our global economy functions. The Federal Reserve, the-- the President said yesterday he wants more action to be taken.


MARGARET BRENNAN: What do you expect to happen? What needs to happen to stabilize the markets because they are--


MARGARET BRENNAN: --under such pressure?

BRIAN MOYNIHAN: --they need to provide-- provide liquidity and-- and continuous liquidity. And so, in these situations, that's what dries up. People back up and-- and-- and the liquidity dries up. So, the Treasury markets, again, they've started-- they've done major things there. Other government guarantee markets, the money funds, potentially, commercial paper. There's a lot of things that are on the table. The central banks around the world have to both provide monetary help, accommodation help, rates, they drop rates fifty basis points. The package of things to do are all known. The question is doing it at the appropriate time, and-- and, more importantly, all the central banks around the world are to have the same impact. Meanwhile, we got to solve the healthcare crisis.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Very, very quickly, what Larry Kudlow was talking about was providing help potentially to the airlines. Does that need to happen? Does there need to be some version of a bailout?

BRIAN MOYNIHAN: I-- I think in a time of, you know, a time of war against this virus, if industries are affected in a way that are strategic industries, we ought to help them.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. Thank you very much.


MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll be right back with a look at how the coronavirus is impacting the travel industry.


MARGARET BRENNAN: One of many industries taking a hit from the coronavirus crisis is the travel industry. So there is no better reporter to turn to than our own Kris Van Cleave. He is CBS News' transportation correspondent. Good morning to you, Kris.

KRIS VAN CLEAVE (CBS News Transportation Correspondent/@krisvancleave): Good morning.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Overnight we saw these incredible photos of lines, people packed into airports in Chicago, there were some in Texas. These are the kind of crowds we're supposed to be avoiding. What-- what is behind this? Why is this happening?

KRIS VAN CLEAVE: This was at the-- the customs area at at least two airports, Chicago and Dallas. And this I think came from the-- the rush of people coming back from Europe, you know, the-- the new travel restrictions have gone into effect there. The U.K. restrictions are going to go into effect Monday night. And some of this had to do, we're hearing, with a new form that-- a new health form that people have to fill out, that was rushed into use and didn't necessarily get on the airplanes, that you normally would fill out the form as you're--


KRIS VAN CLEAVE: --inbound. That didn't happen. Plus, you have the health screening, which is basically a temperature check. But that adds about a minute a person. So between the form that no one knew about that they got handed at some point and this temperature check it caused substantial backups. It raises questions about the staffing and what was Customs and Border Protection prepared for the number of people that are going to be impacted when you put in a travel restriction to most of Europe.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And when it comes to those travel restrictions, the President from the podium at the White House yesterday said they were looking at domestic travel restrictions. What are they looking at?

KRIS VAN CLEAVE: I think right now it's probably a case-by-case situation. This has escalated very quickly. On Thursday the President was asked about domestic travel restrictions. And he said hasn't been something we talked about but wouldn't rule it out, sort of referencing hot spots like New Rochelle and Seattle. By, you know, Friday, the-- the treasury secretary said he'd fly to Los Angeles if he could, and that it's safe to travel domestically. Saturday, the President said he wouldn't travel domestically if he didn't have to. And now they're talking about travel restrictions. So would-- would it be something that probably gets phased in?


KRIS VAN CLEAVE: Yes. Is it possible as this goes on and there are-- there are more outbreaks if that happens, that you could see sort of a lockdown? I think it's possible. I don't think we're there yet. I think they're still trying to figure out what is an appropriate response.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And this matters for the financial health of the travel industry, which has a trickledown effect on whether people even keep their jobs. I mean you-- your reporting this week had such incredible statements from the CEOs of some of these firms. British Airways CEO said this is a crisis of global proportions like no one we have known. This is after going through 9/11.

KRIS VAN CLEAVE: Every single airline executive I have talked to has said this appears to be worse than the impact that 9/11 had on their business. You're seeing airlines with more cancellations than bookings for the next several weeks. That's money going out the door and not coming in. It's just not a sustainable be business model. You've-- Delta talking about parking forty percent-- cutting forty percent of their capacity, parking three hundred planes. Americans cut seventy-five percent of its international flying. They announced that overnight. Parking all of their wide body airplanes, nearly all of them. This is an unprecedented challenge for the airline industry. And it-- it makes the business model likely unsustainable.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And you had Bank of America's CEO said if they need help, give it to them. Larry Kudlow said they're talking about it. What is it that the airlines are asking for? Is this like a bailout like we saw the auto industry or is this something different?

KRIS VAN CLEAVE: You know, it has a lot of the same feel as we saw with the auto industry in 2008, where things just keep getting worse. And I think what the conversation was on Monday of last week, and what it was by Friday, is evolving. And-- and if domestic flight restrictions go into place, that conversation is going to continue to change. It's hard to see that there's not going to be some kind of a bailout if you want to see the number of airlines we have today in a year.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And that's just a difference of whether the government takes an ownership stake and then those companies repay it--


MARGARET BRENNAN: --or whether that's a loan guarantee or some kind of help with--



KRIS VAN CLEAVE: And I think at this point that conversation is evolving and continuing to go on. But the airlines are going to need help.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Why are subways still open?

KRIS VAN CLEAVE: So cities view mass transit as critical, as an essential service, because it links people to jobs and services. And if you were to cut it off, you also tend to impact certain segments of your population, lower-income folks, working-class people who maybe don't have other options to get around. So the belief is that that's important to keep that running. We've seen ridership numbers come down.


KRIS VAN CLEAVE: So in some ways fewer people riding makes it easier to spread out, but they don't want to shut it down if they don't have to.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Kris Van Cleave, you will be busy, as will all of us. Thank you very much for your time.

We'll be right back.


MARGARET BRENNAN: The events in the last week have tested and touched every American, and we have no idea when things will return to normal or even what that new normal will look like. But as we found out here at CBS News, challenging times do often bring us together.

(Begin VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Life dramatically changed this week.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I don't want people dying. That's what I'm all about.

REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI: Forget any physical contact greetings. Bow in an Eastern-- Eastern style.

MARGARET BRENNAN: As the rest of America began to learn what social distancing really means. At least fifty-seven thousand schools are closed affecting at least twenty-five million students, leaving working parents wondering how they'll manage it all and others asking if that daily commute is just too risky. Basketball, soccer, and hockey seasons were suspended. Tournaments, marathons, and baseball's opening day were also postponed or cancelled outright as crowds became something new to fear.

MAN: It's kind of a weird circumstances right now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Disneyland and Disney World shut down. The lights went out on Broadway and at Carnegie Hall. The President has called for a National Day of Prayer, but many churches are closed. And Wall Street's unprecedented eleven-year bull market run officially ended last week. Military exercises were also scaled back and protective measures taken to help those serving overseas. Those on the front lines at home, the doctors, nurses, and first responders continued to show up and serve. As did the journalists who need to keep the public informed. That hit home for all of us at CBS this week. Our New York headquarters shut down after four of our colleagues tested positive for the virus, leaving us all scrambling to get the news on by remote. That meant it was all hands on deck in our network bureaus and at our stations around the country, but especially here in our Washington bureau which always punches above its weight, but last week had to produce all CBS News broadcasts. That happened with the strong assist of the scrappy FACE THE NATION team which has covered this mysterious virus for months. Journalists never should become the story but like many Americans, we're all finding ourselves in some extraordinary moments. And those promise to continue.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: And I'd like to say thank you to everyone at CBS for their work navigating the news during these tumultuous times. We also wish our colleagues in New York a swift recovery. For FACE THE NATION, I'm Margaret Brennan.

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