Full transcript: Beto O'Rourke on "Face the Nation"

Full interview: Beto O'Rourke on "Face the Nation"
Full interview: Beto O'Rourke on "Face the Na... 31:10

MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you for having us here. Just right behind you, we're looking at Mexico. I mean- and it's kind of amazing, the proximity here in your hometown. And you've made it a point to say you're the only candidate from a border town. So what is the O'Rourke immigration policy?

BETO O'ROURKE: The O'Rourke immigration policy is to live our values. This country that is comprised of immigrants, and asylum seekers, and refugees from the world over should ensure that our laws reflect our values, our traditions and our strengths. This community, El Paso, Texas, is one of the safest cities in the United States of America and it's safe because we not only tolerate and respect our differences, we embrace our differences. A quarter of those with whom we live were born somewhere else- maybe Mexico, maybe Central America, maybe Asia, maybe Africa- but they came to this country to do better for themselves and for their families and also because they were called to do better for us and to contribute to our shared greatness. So, ensuring that we follow our asylum laws, never again separate another family, investigate the deaths of the six children whose lives have been lost as they came to this country seeking salvation and refuge. Freeing dreamers from any fear of deportation by making them U.S. citizens here in this country. Bringing millions more out of the shadows so that they can contribute to their full potential towards our shared success. And then lifting the visa caps so that folks can join their families or work jobs in this country for which we need workers without waiting in a line that is 15 or 20 or 25 years long. And lastly, to guarantee the security of communities like El Paso, or any community in this country, let's invest in our ports of entry- those connections with Mexico where the vast majority of everyone and everything that ever comes in the United States first crosses by staffing up with CBP, investing in infrastructure, and ensuring that we have the technology to know who and what is coming into this country.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So there are about 16,000 migrants in U.S. detention facilities right now. What should happen to them?

BETO O'ROURKE: Most of those asylum seeking migrants pose no threat or danger to the United States. We know from past history that when we connect them with case managers in a community, they have a ninety nine percent chance of meeting their court dates and their appointments with ICE. In other words, we do a better job of helping them to follow our laws when they have case managers in the community. And it costs us a tenth of what we pay to keep them in detention and in custody.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So in other words, catch and release is something you support.

BETO O'ROURKE: No, I wouldn't call it catch and release. I- I'd call it helping those who are seeking asylum in this country to follow our laws, to make sure that they show up to their court dates, their appointments with ICE, follow our legal process, and if at the end of that, they're able to stay in this country, want to make sure that they're successful. If at the end of that process they must return to their country of origin, I want to make sure that they follow our laws and go back to the country from which they- they left in the first place. So- so there's a far more cost effective, far more humane way to do this. I think we've got to ask ourselves, during an administration that has caged children, that has deported their moms back to the very countries from which they've fled, that have continued this separation that is visiting a cruelty and a torture on these families, that has lost the lives of six children within our custody- whether or not we can do better and live our values, and whether or not there will be a reckoning and accountability for this. I want to make sure that we live up to our promise, our potential, aren't- aren't afraid of kids who are seeking asylum and refuge in this country--


BETO O'ROURKE: --and do the right thing while we still have the chance to do the right thing.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But- but just to put a fine point on it- you're talking about 16,000 people in custody right now. Are you saying that migrants who cross, and do so not through port of entry, who are here through illegal means, essentially, that they would not be detained in an O'Rourke administration?

BETO O'ROURKE: Not necessarily in- in every case. But- but I think the vast majority of families and children who are fleeing the deadliest countries on the face of the planet, who are seeking asylum in this country, trying to follow our asylum laws, being prevented in some cases from being able to do that by a president who posts CBP officers at the ports of entry, forcing these families to try to cross in between the ports, where they turn themselves in- they don't try to flee arrest. They don't try to evade detection. Those families pose no threats or risk to this country. This- the wealthiest the most powerful country in the face of the planet should not be locking up kids and families. We- we--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Should they be detained together, those families? Like during the Obama administration- although there is that 20 day limit that now some in Congress are trying to expand. Should they be detained together?

BETO O'ROURKE: Those families, if they pose no threat to this country or the communities in which they are apprehended, should be released with a case manager who ensures that they follow our laws, that they attend their court hearings, that they meet their appointments with an ICE officer. And again, if- if they follow our laws and are able to stay in this country- that they are successful in this country because their success becomes our success. If they are unable to be eligible to stay in this country, that they are deported back to their countries of origin. Those are the laws that we have right now. And we have seen when we use a case management family-based community care system, we pay a fraction of the cost, have much better outcomes, and it demonstrably makes this country safer while ensuring that we live our values right here.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You've talked about trying to dissuade people from leaving their countries of origin- those- those three countries where most of the migrants come from. How do you stop people from trying to flee horrific violence and cross illegally into the U.S.?

BETO O'ROURKE: Walls aren't going to do it. Caging kids, separating those families- that's not the answer. The answer is partnering with people in those communities- in Honduras, in Guatemala, in El Salvador- focusing on reducing violence so that they don't have to make that two thousand mile journey in the first place. We've been able to demonstrate that when we invest that money in a targeted fashion, reduce violence in those home communities, fewer people flee. (00:07:14) Right now we're spending a total--

MARGARET BRENNAN: How does- how does the U.S. stop violence in El Salvador? How do you do that? Is that increased policing? What specifically do you want to spend money on?

BETO O'ROURKE: Yeah. So- so right now we spend about five hundred million dollars in- in those three countries. When we have studied that money that is spent in local communities to reduce violence- investing in civil society, in local policing, in- in the institutions and means to reduce crime in those communities so families are safe enough to raise their kids, to work a job, to ensure the success of their community and their country- they are no longer forced to flee and come to the United States. That's a bargain. And in fact, I would double the amount of money that we're spending there. One billion dollars is still a fraction of the 30 billion dollars that President Trump wants to spend on a two thousand mile, 30-foot high wall that would extend from Brownsville, Texas to San Diego, California. So this is a smart--

MARGARET BRENNAN: But do you think the programs are working? Because there are 100,000- almost- migrants, per month still coming into the U.S.

BETO O'ROURKE: I'll tell you it will exacerbate this situation and the conditions that force families to flee. If we withdraw all of our investment which is what President Trump wants to do I think we make those targeted investments if we work with partners in the region including partners like Mexico to make sure that we address the underlying issues of civil society of rule of law of some of the factors that we contribute to through our consumption of illegal drugs a war on drugs that we have pushed on our partners in the Western Hemisphere that have hollowed out much of the civil society in these countries. We've got some work to do but we also have to have the humility of being able to work with partners in the region as well. That's a much smarter way to meet this challenge than a wall than a cage than sending 50 500 U.S. service members as the president did last year to the U.S. Mexico border. Listen we are a confident bold courageous country. We don't need to be afraid of kids. We need to be there to help them so they don't have to leave in the first place.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But do you accept that there are smugglers using some of these people crossing to cover up these criminal enterprises? I mean aren't you concerned about that? How do you stop that?

BETO O'ROURKE: We've got to remain vigilant against the crossing of illegal drugs, against the smuggling of human beings. Ninety percent plus of everyone or everything that ever comes into this country - including illegal drugs - cross through our ports of entry. So my plan to increase Customs and Border Protection officer staffing, investments in technology to better scan what's coming in, infrastructure so that we have the means to facilitate legitimate trade and travel while keeping our communities and our country safe is the best way to approach this. And if you compliment that with comprehensive immigration reform where people come out of the shadows we know who is in our community, we will demonstrably be far safer than we are today and we won't have to use tactics of fear or anxiety, walls and cages in order to accomplish that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Your fellow Democrat, Julian Castro, who is also running wants to decriminalize illegal border crossing. Is that what you want to do?

BETO O'ROURKE: I think the best step that we can take is to legalize those who are here in this country already contributing to our success. Let's start with those more than one million Dreamers. I think we need to rewrite our immigration laws so that we raise the visa caps so no one's forced to contemplate crossing illegally into this country. No one's waiting in a 20 or 25 year line in order to be able to join their family or to work a job here in the United States. I think if we take those steps we don't have to worry about decriminalizing those who are crossing into this country. We can make sure that there are legal avenues for them to be here and contribute to our shared success.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So it- it shouldn't be prosecuted as a criminal or civil offense?

BETO O'ROURKE: I think we have to take the much larger step of rewriting our- our immigration laws. It's- it's the only way we're going to fundamentally change this dynamic. We've been talking about this for decades. We've been working at the margins for more than 30 years. This challenge requires something far more comprehensive. All Americans coming together to make sure that we live up to our values as a country of immigrants and, so, again begins with how we treat those who are seeking asylum, how we bring those who are in the shadows here today, how we make us citizens of those dreamers who live in a constant fear of deportation back to their country of origin, and how we invest in solutions to problems that force people to flee so that they don't have to make those journeys in- in the first place. I think that's the way that we-  we take on this challenge.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The mayor here in El Paso spoke to us on FACE THE NATION recently and he was just talking about how overwhelmed the shelters are here with people who are being essentially released into the community in a way that's really putting a strain on a city like this. How do you handle that?

BETO O'ROURKE: I'm really proud of this city, the way that we've met this challenge. We may be one of the poorest urban counties in the United States of America, but this community has stepped up to help those asylum seekers at no cost to the federal government. Great Catholic charities like Annunciation House and Ruben Garcia, folks who come out making meals, providing medical care, clothing, connecting those families with relatives deeper into the interior of the United States making sure that they understand our laws so that they honor their court appearances and their appointments with ICE. This community has really stepped up and it's shown that we do not have to be afraid of these asylum seekers or the rest of the world.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But he wasn't saying, "be afraid" but he was saying, "it's a strain on resources." There is crisis in that way for local officials and for federal officials. Do you accept that there is a crisis?

BETO O'ROURKE: I accept that this can be a challenge, but it is a challenge that this community of El Paso is meeting, and it's a challenge that we're meeting in a way that makes me proud and I think shows the best traditions of the United States of America. But again, in order to meet this challenge, we're not going to meet it by increasing our capacity at shelters or building walls or building cages for kids. The- the answer lies in those countries from which these people flee. The Northern Triangle countries are the deadliest countries on the face of the planet today. If we do not address the underlying cause then we will continue to have this year in and- and year out, so it's incumbent on the United States of America to elevate these problems, prioritize the Western Hemisphere, work with partners in the region to resolve them so that we don't continue to have this challenge going forward.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about your campaign. You've crossed the benchmarks, you'll be on that debate stage but lately you've been trailing in the polls there are some headlines I'll read for you: The Washington Post this week cited "brutal new 2020 numbers for Beto O'Rourke," "Beto O'Rourke blew it," "The Beto Balloon Burst." What are you doing wrong? Do you think you're doing something wrong?

BETO O'ROURKE: Look, I feel really good about the way that we're campaigning. I'm going to people where they are in their communities. No me importa, I do not care how red or blue, rural or urban, I'm showing up to listen to them. And what they're telling me is they want this country to come together around our shared challenges. They want people to be able to see a doctor or afford their prescription medications. They want this economy to work for everyone so that folks don't have to work two or three jobs just to get by. They want us to address this ballooning student loan debt crisis. They want to make sure that we confront climate change before it is too late for this and every generation that follows. So, I'm listening to them more than I am to the headline writers and- and what I find is something that makes me incredibly optimistic about the future of this country. We are going to come together. We're gonna bring new people and new energy into our democracy. We're gonna make sure that it works for everyone that every vote is counted and that everyone counts so that this country can fulfill its potential and live up to its promise. So, I feel really good about this campaign and I feel really good about this country at this very divided moment. We need to come together and that's what this campaign is all about.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You have, though, relaunched, acknowledging that things weren't registering for you. You've apologized for the Vanity Fair cover. Can you escape some of those first impressions of you?

BETO O'ROURKE: Listen the- the only way that I'm going to have any chance of being our party's nominee, of defeating Donald Trump in 2020 of bringing this country together in 2021 is to go everywhere, meet with everyone, leave no one behind and take no one for granted. So- so that's what I'm focused on. And you've seen us do that through 16 states in the first eight weeks. You're now seeing me do it more on- on national television to reach those who could not come to our town hall meetings or- or house parties or the events that we have been holding. The message remains the same. We're going to be there for people. We're going to ensure that we bring folks together at a very divided very polarized moment. We're gonna make sure that this democracy works at a time that it is under attack by this president by powers from without this country and by corruption from within this country. So--

MARGARET BRENNAN: Is this saying, though, that maybe with the Vanity Fair cover and- and the big launch that you looked out of step?

BETO O'ROURKE: I don't know about that. Listen. The opportunities that I've had to meet with people - the snarkiness, the cynicism all that is gone. It- it- it's folks wanting to know that we're gonna find a way to ensure that every child can go to school without worried about whether or not they're gonna come home at the end of the day in this epidemic of gun violence. They want a candidate who's going to be for universal background checks, red flag laws, stopping the sale of assault weapons and weapons of war in- into our communities. Having those conversations with children or young leaders on the issues that are most important to them is what drives me. It- it produces this relentless energy that we've got in our campaign to make sure that we connect, draw people in and meet these historic challenges together, so I feel really good about doing this. And listen there are going to be highs and lows in this campaign. There have been in every campaign that I have ever run. But if we stay focused on people the very reason that we're doing this in the first place, bringing them in and allowing them to contribute to the solutions to the challenges that we face,  I don't think there's anything that can stop us.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think the party needs generational change?

BETO O'ROURKE: I'm driven by the people who see the urgency of this moment, who- who understand that we've got ten years left to us to meet this challenge of climate change after which these floods and fires and droughts and disasters will pale in comparison. Those students who are talking to me about gun violence. The folks who demand that we have universal guaranteed high quality care. All I know is that we need to match that with a relentless energy that brings in people who may have been left out before. And what I hope that I've been able to demonstrate in Texas, leading the largest grassroots campaign in our state's history is that we were able to do that. Young voter turnout up 500 percent last year over the previous midterm. We won independents for the first time in decades won more votes than any Democrat has in the history of the state of Texas and a state that had ranked 50th in voter turnout now counts in national elections more than ever has in my adult life.

MARGARET BRENNAN: It sounds like you're saying yes. It sounds like you're saying you need more sort of revolution versus the idea of restoration. You need a young candidate. Is that what you're saying someone like you and not a Joe Biden or Bernie Sanders who are in their 70s?

BETO O'ROURKE: We need to be able to bring in new energy. We need to be able to bring in new voters. We need to make sure that this democracy, so badly damaged, works for everyone. All I'm saying is that the way that I campaign, this- this relentless pursuit of people wherever they are, learning their stories incorporating what's most important to them in their lives into this campaign, and into the service that I want to perform for this country is what we need at this very divided moment. So that's the way that I offer my service going forward.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you support this latest bailout of farmers?

BETO O'ROURKE: From listening to farmers that I've met all over this country and especially in Iowa, they're not looking for bailouts they want to connect with those markets that they have worked a lifetime to establish. Markets that are now closed to them--


BETO O'ROURKE: --because of this trade war, because of these tariffs. Whether it is the- the soybeans that are rotting right now in the fields after they burst the storage bins because of the floods that were produced along the Missouri River. Whether it is the pecan growers in Seminole, Texas, they're no longer able to sell to the rest of the world. They're no longer able to make a profit doing what they do best and they will not be able to pass these farms and ranches on to the next generation. So yes in- in the short term we absolutely have to make sure that they're okay, but we should never have been in this place in the first place. And- and what we see right now is yet another example of President Trump being both the arsonist who created this problem in the first place and the firefighter who wants the credit for addressing it through this bailout. What we need is a leader who reflects and represents the- the promise and the power of this country these markets that we've opened up. The necessity of holding China to account for their trade practices, but not going it alone bringing in our traditional trade partners and allies and friends from the European Union to Canada and Mexico, that's the only way that we're going to be successful. So- so, right now--

MARGARET BRENNAN: So who are those allies? How do you do that? How do you take on- you know, how does the world's first and second largest economies fight this out in an O'Rourke administration?

BETO O'ROURKE: I would do this with allies and partners. When have we ever fought a war as a country without bringing allies along with us.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But the U.S. right now is trying to convince many European countries to get on board with their stance against some of the Chinese technology companies. And they are having a hard time doing that in terms of access to 5G et cetera--

BETO O'ROURKE: It's because--

MARGARET BRENNAN: They're trying and it's- they're not there.

BETO O'ROURKE: It's because this president has turned his back on our allies and our friends. He's with- withdrawn from the agreements that were negotiated in previous administrations. We are the one country who is trying to exempt itself from the Paris climate accords despite our ability of- to negotiate a peaceful resolution to the Iran nuclear situation, we've now withdrawn from that ensuring that allies and partners no longer trust us as we go into other challenging otherwise intractable situations. And so the next president needs to bring close those allies and friends those alliances that were so often forged in sacrifice to make sure that we can meet the next challenges whether it is climate change or nuclear nonproliferation or ensuring that we hold China accountable for what they have done to violate the international rules of trade. But right now we're going it alone. This president's embrace of dictators of authoritarians, his abnegation of our responsibilities and our traditional friendships is deeply hurting this country and our prospects going forward.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So no tariffs for you. You're opposed. Who is America's greatest adversary right now?

BETO O'ROURKE: We face a number of- of adversaries on- on the world stage from ISIS to- to North Korea to Iran. And yet the adversary that has successfully invaded this country through our democracy, Russia, through their leader, Vladimir Putin, is the country and the person who this president holds closest. After the Mueller Report was released, (00:22:58) our president called Vladimir Putin, spent an hour on the phone with him described the resulting report as a hoax giving Putin a green light to further interfere in our democracy. We've been able to make this work one way or another for two hundred and forty three years and counting. There's nothing that guarantees us another two hundred and forty three or even another year or two unless we stand up and fight for it. We've got the most dangerous person who's ever held office in the White House right now. Who's inviting the involvement of our- our greatest adversaries. And we've got to be able to stand up not as Democrats, but as Americans to this challenge. And so I want to make sure that we do that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So what does that mean for you that- that unlike President Obama or President Trump you would not try to reset the relationship with Russia. You just cannot deal with Vladimir Putin?

BETO O'ROURKE: No I- what I'm saying is that there's got to be accountability for what Russia did in the 2016 election. There's got to be accountability for those who facilitated what Russia did. There's got to be accountability for those who attempted to cover up and obstruct the investigation into what Russia did. Because if we do not do those things Russia will continue to try to manipulate, maybe successfully so, our democracy. And this, the last best hope of Earth,  will be lost. We- we- we turn our back on this extraordinary challenge at our own peril. And that's what I fear that we are doing right now. So we've got to stand up to Russia. It doesn't mean that we're not able to work with them down the road, but there have to be consequences for what they did to this country in 2016 and what they will attempt to do that this country in 2020 and the years to come.


BETO O'ROURKE: Sanctions are part of it, but also a- a full investigation here in this country so that we understand what has happened and an unambiguous signal to Russia that their involvement in our democracy, their involvement in other Western democracies, their adventurism in Georgia, in Ukraine, in Crimea, in Syria, that there have to be real consequences to this. Right now we have a president who has openly questioned the value of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization whose Article 5 mutual defense clause has only been invoked once. That's when we were attacked on- on 9/11. We need to hold those allies closer to us to send the message to Russia that this adventurism, these provocations will not stand and that we will be- we- we will be stronger together by- by holding these allies closer.

MARGARET BRENNAN: What's America's role in the world?

BETO O'ROURKE: America is the indispensable country. Almost alone we have the ability to convene the other powers of this planet to meet otherwise intractable challenges. If we're going to confront climate change and prevent this planet from warming another two degrees Celsius it's going to take America's leadership in bringing the other countries of the world to the table. We've got to lead through our own example doing everything that we can first in this country. If we're gonna address nuclear proliferation, if we're gonna get out of these wars that we've been in 18 years and counting in Afghanistan 28 years and counting in Iraq. But our presence in Somalia and Yemen and Syria as well. We're gonna need to work with partners around the world. We have this power to inspire as the greatest democracy as a country that stands for liberty and freedom. If we can fully live these values at home and abroad we're gonna be able to meet these global challenges that we face right now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Why do you want to be president?

BETO O'ROURKE: I want to be president because I understand that we have the greatest challenges that this country has ever faced, whether it's people who are unable to get health care, those who are unable to participate in our economy, or this challenge of climate change that is consuming human lives and entire communities in some case--

MARGARET BRENNAN: But what makes you uniquely qualified to do all of that fixing you just laid out?

BETO O'ROURKE: Because all this is happening at a moment that this country is as polarized as it's ever been. And being more divided by a- a president who seeks to keep us apart every single day, a democracy that is badly damaged, further undermined again by the same man who seeks to destroy our institutions to his own personal gain. My entire life, everything that I ever have done or stand for has been about bringing people together and making sure that this democracy works for everyone. Here in El Paso, when I was on the city council for six years, every single week I held a town hall meeting so I could listen to and be held accountable by my constituents. In Congress for six years in the minority, I was able to deliver expanding mental health care access for veterans, protecting public lands, working with both Democrats and Republicans to get that done. And then here in Texas we traveled to every single one of the two hundred and fifty four counties, the largest grassroots effort in our campaign for the United States Senate. And it transformed the democracy in the state. it brought new people and new energy into a state that had ranked 50th in voter turnout, one where we now know everyone should count and everyone standing up to be counted.


BETO O'ROURKE: That ability to bring people together and ensure that this democracy works is how we're going to meet these challenges.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You were famously asked during that race if you could say one nice thing about your opponent at the time, Senator Ted Cruz. Can you say one nice thing about President Trump?

BETO O'ROURKE: Listen. When I was first elected to Congress the greatest challenge that we faced here in this country and especially in this city was the inability for veterans to be able to get in and see a mental health care provider. It was producing a crisis in suicide that is claiming 20 veteran's lives a day. As a member of Congress, we wrote legislation to improve access to mental health care for veterans, worked with Republican colleagues to get that done. And that bill was signed into law by President Trump. I agree with him on almost nothing but the fact that we were able to find the common ground to get this done to serve those who have put their lives on the line for this country is something that I'm grateful to him for.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to quickly ask you, because we are going into Memorial Day weekend, about some of those things regarding veterans. Do you think President Trump was right to send these fifteen hundred troops to the Middle East to counter the Iran threat?

BETO O'ROURKE: No. President Trump is escalating tensions, is provoking yet another war in the Middle East where we find ourselves already engaged in war in so many countries- in Iraq in Syria in Yemen, not too far from there in Libya and in Afghanistan. So, we don't need another war. We need to find a way to work with allies and partners and in some cases with our enemies.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So do you doubt the U.S. intelligence that said there was a threat on the ground to U.S. forces in Iraq?

BETO O'ROURKE: I- I have a really hard time believing this administration and believing a- a president who has so wantonly lied and misconstrued the facts at every single turn to his own gain. I'm- I'm suspicious of a national security team that has so often called for war. You have someone in- in-- Bolton, who has publicly said that he wants regime change in Iran. The body count in- in that kind of war on- on both sides will not be measured in the hundreds or the thousands, but the tens or hundreds of thousands. If there is a peaceful alternative to this- and I know that there is- then we must do everything within our power to pursue it. That's what I would do in my administration. I'd stick up for our values, make sure that we defend our allies, protect the lives of our fellow Americans. But do that peacefully where we can. Otherwise, we will produce more wars, more veterans coming back to this country seeking the care that they are being effectively and functionally denied today. I think we need to do far better going forward and I know that we can.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Lastly, there are 12,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan. You hear almost no discussion of the war that continues to rage there. How do you handle that? Do you bring those troops home?



BETO O'ROURKE: We've got to end our war in Afghanistan--


BETO O'ROURKE: We've got to make sure that we satisfy the conditions that first led us to go to war in the first place. That those who perpetrated 9/11 are brought to justice. That Afghanistan is never again used to stage attacks on the United States of America or Americans. We have satisfied those conditions. Now it is time for us to work with the partners in the region to produce a lasting peace and stability and bring our U.S. service members back home.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And that includes the Taliban- brokering a peace deal with them and bringing them into the government?

BETO O'ROURKE: Sometimes, you don't have the fortune of working just with your allies, your friends, or the people with whom you agree. In order to produce peace, you sometimes have to negotiate and work with your enemies. And that's true for Afghanistan.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Alright, I'm being told to wrap. Thank you very much for your time.

BETO O'ROURKE: Thank you for having me on. Appreciate it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Appreciate it.

BETO O'ROURKE: Thank you.