The Homeland Security Debate

Senior lawmakers say they doubt a far-reaching new domestic security department proposed by President Bush could be created without additional spending.

Democratic Sens. Joseph Biden, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, and Kent Conrad, Budget Committee chairman, said Sunday they are skeptical of the White House contention that the department will not increase the cost of government.

"I'm for the president's reorganization," Biden, D-Del., said on CNN's "Late Edition." "But I don't think you can do this on the cheap."

On Monday, Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge said the goal is not to create a new bureaucracy but to make government work better. And he said the president is gratified by a suggestion by House Minority Leader Richard Gephardt, D-Mo., that Congress complete work on a bill creating the department by the first anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks.

"We are going to do everything we can to work with Congressman Gephardt and everybody else," Ridge said in remarks to the National Association of Broadcasters.

He didn't answer when asked whether he will be named to run the new government department, reports CBS News Correspondent Bob Fuss.

Biden questioned how the government could fight domestic terrorism, drugs, violent crime and white-collar crime effectively without adding manpower and resources.

Conrad, D-N.D., said he also doubts it can be done without higher spending.

"You're putting in a whole additional level of management," Conrad said on NBC's "Meet the Press," noting that the government already is running a budget deficit.

Rep. Porter Goss, R-Fla., chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said hardly anything in Washington comes in at the expected cost. Still, the administration's intent "to try and hold the lid on this thing" is right, Goss said on CNN.

The Department of Homeland Security proposed last week by Mr. Bush would inherit 169,000 employees and $37.4 billion from agencies it would absorb, including the Secret Service, Coast Guard, the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory and the immigration and customs services. It would exclude the largest intelligence operations, including the FBI, CIA and the National Security Agency.

White House chief of staff Andrew Card said Mr. Bush would not veto legislation setting up the department if it expands government.

"No, he's looking to secure the homeland, and that's the priority," Card said on ABC's "This Week."

Democrats and Republicans alike have pledged to act quickly on the plan. House Democratic leader Dick Gephardt and others hope the department could be established by the first anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks.

Still, senators from both major parties said they view Bush's proposal as a starting point.

Leading lawmakers on intelligence issues said the plan does not address flaws in the FBI and CIA and is just the start of the changes needed in response to Sept. 11-related failures.

"If the administration takes the stonewall position that every word in their plan is biblical and if you change it you're unpatriotic, I think that will be a very serious error," said Sen. Bob Graham, D-Fla., chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Graham suggested the United States may want to consider splitting law enforcement and domestic intelligence into two agencies, as Britain does. Its MI5 agency handles intelligence; Scotland Yard focuses on law enforcement.

Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama, the intelligence committee's top Republican, said Congress must review what Bush's plan does and does not do. For example, he said, it now fails to address problems with the FBI and CIA that lawmakers are reviewing.

"We're going to need the help of this administration to change a lot of things structurally and otherwise with these huge bureaucracies that I believe are not agile and do not, on all occasions, serve us well today," said Shelby, who appeared with Graham on CBS' "Face the Nation."

Card said the department would not gather intelligence about potential terrorist attacks but would serve as a clearinghouse, analyzing information from the FBI, CIA and other sources and assessing threats.

Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-Conn., predicted turf battles, particularly over whether the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Coast Guard should join the new department.