Tripp-Lewinsky Tapes (8)

LEWINSKY: ... I kind of also wanted to send the creep something. ... And he didn't give a (REDACTED), you know?

TRIPP: How do you know he didn't give a (REDACTED)?

LEWINSKY: Because he saw me. ... We fooled around.

TRIPP: But you didn't see his knee.

LEWINSKY: What?

TRIPP: You didn't see his bad knee, did you?

LEWINSKY: No, but he was hobbling around on crutches.

... LEWINSKY: I hate him. I hate him. I hate him.

TRIPP: Well, if you really hated him, you'd pack your bags and scoot out.

LEWINSKY: I know. I wish I could. ... Now my mom won't let me.

TRIPP: Why?

LEWINSKY: Because she told me she doesn't want me moving to New York until I can really walk away from this. ...

(Discussing the president's gift of a copy of "Leaves of Grass")

... TRIPP: Was that an old book or a new book?

LEWINSKY: No, it was a new book. But we talked about it, and we talked about why he gave it to me, and blah, blah, blah.

TRIPP: And why did he give it to you?

LEWINSKY: Because he had read it when he was my age, and

TRIPP: Oh, that's right.

LEWINSKY: Something like that. I don't know. So when it was

TRIPP: That was very sweet, though.

LEWINSKY: Yeah. ...

... TRIPP: And then there's perjury. I mean, that's huge. ... I've said this to you over and over again. I don't have the protection you have. I don't have anyone looking out for me.

LEWINSKY: I don't

TRIPP: ... You're a single girl, you're young. Putting you in a job in New York ... it's a cakewalk.

Me? I've got a house. I've got a mortgage. I've got two kids in college. ... I've perjured myself for these people and I'm (REDACTED). ...

... TRIPP: You have the luxury of Vernon Jordan knowing the truth. ...

LEWINSKY: What truth?

... TRIPP: Look, he knows that you are putting ... everything on the line and lying under oath.

... LEWINSKY: So what is it so what is it he's going to protect me from? Perjuring myself so I go to jail? ...

TRIPP: No, you're not hearing what I'm saying. ... He knows what you have done. And so, you're protected because they're never going to (REDACTED) you over.

LEWINSKY: Hah. They already (REDACTED) me over. ...

... LEWINSKY: I was going to tell my dad because my mom had this really good idea that my parents should come sit in on the deposition.

TRIPP: Mm-huh.

LEWINSKY: But then the "liar" said that that's not a good idea.

... LEWINSKY: It's not because then, really, because then they'll say, "Well, what did you know? What do your parents know about all this?" And then they could subpoena my parents.

... TRIPP: Well, then you could have your father because he knows nothing

LEWINSKY: Yeah. He'd probably say I mean he wouldn't say this, obviously, but it'd be like, "Well, yeah, he was like checking my daughter out. You kow?"

... LEWINSKY: "He shook my hand like I was going to be his father-in-law." ...

... TRIPP: I wouldn't mind seeing him, you know, have to, have to, admit in public that he has a problem.

LEWINSKY: Oh I would. ...My God, I'd die.

TRIPP: But he has a problem, Monica, he does.

LEWINSKY: He does. And you know what?

TRIPP: He knows it.

LEWINSKY: He has a problem and we, the American people, elected him, so let him do his stupid job. You know?

TRIPP: ... I mean, you must have a sign that only men can see that says

LEWINSKY: "Married Men Magnet."

TRIPP: Yeah. That is.

LEWINSKY: I'm a married man magnet. ...

TRIPP: You know what, Monica? It's going to work out. It's going to work out, because I have I have true faith that you're going to go up to New York, you're going to get a wonderful job, this is all going to go away. ...

I don't want anything to surface that's going to get back to the Big One. ... For many, many reasons. Your safety, my safety, my kids' safety, everyone's safety is really the biggest thing on my mind. Trust me.

LEWINSKY: I do. ...

LEWINSKY: ... I trust you and my aunt at the same level, and my mom I just trust more. But she's my mom. ... I just wish I could understand the (REDACTED) creep. Do you know what I mean? Like

TRIPP: Look. I don't think there is any understanding him.

LEWINSKY: What goes through his head when he's saying, you know, "She wants to come see me." I mean, the only thing I can think of, that he just doesn't want to, because it's the only thing that makes sense to me. ... I mean, I thought I was being nice. What's there to deal with, you know?

TRIPP: Oh, there's a lot to deal with, Monica. Just because you're being nice? ... I think the real issue is that you're a temptation to him, and I don't think he wants the temptation. He has decided this isn't happening.

... LEWINSKY: I sent him that card. It's like what kind of (REDACTED) moron do you have to be?

TRIPP: (Laughing)

LEWINSKY: You know what I mean?

TRIPP: Oh, I'm beginning to think he's a huge moron, but that's just my opinion.

LEWINSKY: And I'm beginning to think he's just an (REDACTED) more than a moron.

TRIPP: How about a combination, a moron and an (REDACTED)? (Sighing.) ... Well, his kid's not there, his wife's not there. ... Well, the comfort you can take from this is I'm sure he doesn't have anyone else there either, because she's not there.

LEWINSKY: Well, Nancy (Hernreich, deputy assistant to the President and Director of Oval Office Operations) might be there. ...

TRIPP: Nancy will not let anybody in that back room.

LEWINSKY: No (REDACTED).

TRIPP: So that's what I'm saying. He's not seeing anybody.

LEWINSKY: Oh, well oh, that way. ... Yeah, I was. I pretty much am begging to see him. I told him last week I wanted to see hm over the weekend. ...

(Start of conversations recorded while Tripp was wearing a body wire)

LEWINSKY: I don't want to talk to him I don't want to look at him. I can't look at him on TV. I can't anything.

TRIPP: You're kidding. ...

LEWINSKY: ... He hasn't even contacted me in two months, and I was going through all of this because of him for two months. For two months. ...

TRIPP: ... Are these people are you comfortable he Vernon spoke to you about these people?

LEWINSKY: This was a long time ago.

TRIPP: ... But but they're they're people he feels will take care of you? ... In other words, you're not just going to be cast adrift.

LEWINSKY: I don't think so.

TRIPP: ... Do you can I ask you something?

LEWINSKY: Yeah?

TRIPP: Are you bound and determined to do what you plan to do?

LEWINSKY: Uh-huh. ...

TRIPP: You are you are you positive in your heart that you want to do that? I mean

LEWINSKY: Uh-huh.

TRIPP: I'm only saying I'm only saying that in case you should change your mind.

LEWINSKY: No. I I I first of all, for fear of my life

TRIPP: Yeah.

LEWINSKY: I would not. For fear of my life, I would not I would not cross these these people for fear of my life, number one. ... I could not lived with myself if I caused trouble ... that is not my nature. I am a good person. I think no matter what no matter how he has wronged me, no matter how many girlfriends he had, no matter how many people he abused, no matter how many, it it was my choice. ...

I have fear about one thing, and that's you saying something. I have no fear. It is hard, it is scary. I don't like it. I don't feel comfortable (inaudible). ...

Start of conversations recorded while Tripp was wearing a body wire:

LEWINSKY: I don't want to talk to him I don't want to look at him. I can't look at him on TV. I can't anything.

TRIPP: You're kidding. ...

LEWINSKY: ... He hasn't even contacted me in two months, and I was going through all of this because of him for two months. For two months. ...

... TRIPP: Are these people are you comfortable he Vernon spoke to you about these people?

LEWINSKY: This was a long time ago.

TRIPP:I mean, are there

LEWINSKY: This was a long time ago. ... I haven't spoken to him in a but

TRIPP: But but they're they're people he feels will take care of you?

LEWINSKY: Yeah, yeah, yeah. ...

... TRIPP: In other words, you're not just going to be cast adrift.

LEWINSKY: I don't think so.

TRIPP: Do you can I ask you something?

LEWINSKY: Yeah?

TRIPP: Are you bound and determined to do what you plan to do?

LEWINSKY: Uh-huh.

TRIPP: OK.

LEWINSKY: I

TRIPP: You are you are you positive in your heart that you want to do that? I mean

LEWINSKY: Uh-huh.

TRIPP: I'm only saying Im only saying that in case you should change your mind.

LEWINSKY: No. I I I first of all, for fear of my life

TRIPP: Yeah.

LEWINSKY: I would not. For fear of my life, I would not I would not cross these these people for fear of my life, number one. ....

... LEWINSKY: I could not live with myself if I caused trouble. I that is just that is not my nature. I am a good person. I think no matter what no matter how he has wronged me, no matter how many girlfriends he had, no matter how many people he abused, no matter how many, it it was my choice. ...

... LEWINSKY: I have fear about one thing, and that's you saying something. I have no fear. It is hard, it is scary. I don't like it. I don't feel comfortable (inaudible). ...

... TRIPP: I think everybody has a, an, a moral code of some sort.

LEWINSKY: We do, but to everybody it's different.

TRIPP: I mean all these years of testifying and doing this and doing that it it would never have crossed my mind to lie under oath.

LEWINSKY: ... No, I know it's a big thing and I (sighing). You know I know that it's not a matter I would be indebted to you for life. I would do anything. I would write you a check for (REDACTED) ... because even though he despises me right now, I know in my inner mind I love him.

TRIPP: I know.

LEWINSKY: And just to even protect him.

TRIPP: I know that Monica, believe me. ...

... LEWINSKY: If I were you, I would say: "Well, I don't, I might have, but I don't remember." That's the phrase. That's the phrase my lawyer told me. Everything is, "I might have, but I don't remember."

"Were you ever alone with the president?"

"Um, it's possible I may have taken him a letter on the weekend, but, you know, I might have, but I don't really" ...

... LEWINSKY: What about if I made you a promise, if I I promised you that if you lost your job because of this, if you lied under oath and lost your job then I would tell the creep that you lied under oath and that you knew everything. ...

TRIPP: And obviously you can't have a conversation with him (Clinton) now about me, because, obviously

LEWINSKY: I can't even get in touch with him. ...

TRIPP: He promised you the present, Monica.

LEWINSKY: Big (REDACTED) deal. ... he also promised me a job anywhere I wanted to work. Didn't he?

TRIPP: (Laughter.)

LEWINSKY: He promised me he wouldn't dump me that day. He dumped me. He promised he'd call. He didn't call. He promised to do a lot of (REDACTED) things. ... My attitude is this: ... I am not going to sit there and pretend he is the all mighty pristine man, and he has never looked at another woman. ...

... TRIPP: Okay. So all right. Let me think. But if getting back to my point, if I lie under oath ... he doesn't even appreciate it, because

LEWINSKY: Yes, he will.

TRIPP: he doesn't know it. ...

LEWINSKY: ... if somebody said to him, "Is Monica lying under oath," he would say yes. But when he on his own thinks about it, he doesn't think about it in those terms, Okay?

TRIPP: Probably.

LEWINSKY: Okay? He thinks of it as, "We're being safe. We're being smart." Okay? "We're being smart, we're being safe, it's good for everybody." ...

The truth is if I felt and I know this is going to sound really hokey, but

TRIPP: What?

LEWINSKY: To me a little bit of it's for the country. Every president, every (REDACTED) president we have ever had has always had lovers because the pressure of the job is too much. Too much.

TRIPP: Mm-hmm.

LEWINSKY: Too much to always rely on your wife, with whom you have too much baggage which you inevitably will if you got to that point. And I think it's bad for the country.

TRIPP: When if I lie under oath, and he is even semi-aware of the Kathleen thing and and that's that's better. Okay? Isn't it more like someone who, who you know how when someone does you a you're indebted to someone? And so, in order to free yourself of feeling indebted, you turn on them? Like you you disassociate completely because you don't want to be indebted to that person. ... Like your usefulness is done. I mean, that's a huge fear.

LEWINSKY: I think he would be too afraid to do that. But I don't know because I could be in the same boat.

TRIPP: He told Kathleen. "Deny. Deny. Deny." I can't imagine he's going to change it now.

LEWINSKY: When did he tell Kathleen this?

TRIPP: When she was afraid that Hillary would come in, and he said, "I've got that covered."

LEWINSKY: Oh.

TRIPP: And she said, "What if someone has seen me?" And he said the same thing.

LEWINSKY: Yeah. But, okay? First of all, I think it's impossible to think he's going to admit to Kathleen. But let's just say he did. How why does that change anything you say?

TRIPP: That's true, because I wasn't in the room.

LEWINSKY: You weren't in the room. You are a nonissue here.

TRIPP: Thats my point.

LEWINSKY: I said to him (Vernon Jordan), "What if someone's been tapping my phone and that's illegal, but they fed the information to someone else? So that this someone else is going to pretend they knew and that I told them or whatever it was."

TRIPP: Right. That's close enough. And what did he say?

LEWINSKY: And he said, "Well, as long as you say it didn't happen, it didn't happen."

TRIPP: But did he address the perjury issue at all? Because that is perjury?

LEWINSKY: Okay. He yeah. He said that he said, "You're not gonna go to jail. You're not gonna go to jail."

TRIPP: You're not gonna go to jail, but did he ... assess what could happen? I mean, assuming let's say worst case, they come up to me or to you and say, "You on this date and this date sad something completely wrong to us. It's obviously a falsehood."

And let's just it's perjury or can be construed as perjury. Did he

LEWINSKY: I would say it's not. What I said is true. It did not happen. She is I did not say that. She must have misunderstood.

TRIPP: I mean, you're not hearing what I'm saying. I understand all that.

LEWINSKY: Okay.

TRIPP: I I I've gotten that.

LEWINSKY: See, no. No. I understand what you're saying. What I'm trying to show you is that what he has showed me is that there's no way to get caught in perjury situation (sic) like this.

END TRIPP TAPE TRANSCRIPTS