LEWINSKY: The worst I could say.
TRIPP: Oh, you want you didn't say, "What are you wearing?"
LEWINSKY: No. I was even worse than that. But then what's even worse, worse, worse than what I said was I was just like I don't know how you'll die. You will die. You're gonna smack me.
TRIPP: Probably, Monica.
LEWINSKY: What do you think I said.
TRIPP: God only knows.
LEWINSKY: What's the worst thing I could say?
TRIPP: "Do you love me?"
TRIPP: "I love you."
TRIPP: You didn't.
LEWINSKY: I did. We're getting off, and I'm like, all right, "I love you, butthead." I called him butthead.
TRIPP: You didn't.
LEWINSKY: I did.
TRIPP: And what'd he say?
LEWINSKY: Just nothing. He just kind of hung up. Or I hung up. I was like, oh, my God, what the hell just came out of my mouth?
LEWINSKY: Because I realized what I had said and I didn't I was like, oh, I didn't want to say handsome and be so mushy, so I made it kind of joking.
TRIPP: (Sigh.) (Laughter.)
LEWINSKY: You know?
TRIPP: Well, that could be kind of like, "loveya," you know. Like a you know, (REDACTED) "love ya, mean it."
TRIPP: You know, that's no big deal. That's okay. Butthead, though. Hmmm.
LEWINSKY: I know. He probably hung up and was like butthead?
LEWINSKY: "I didn't hear her."
TRIPP: (Laughter) Oh, my God. Well, hmmm, the one thing I'm sure he's aware of is that you don't think of him as who he is. I think that has come across loud and clear all the entire time. So I don't think he'd be so appalled.
LEWINSKY: Oh, yeah. 'Cause he said to me oh, yeah, and then he said to me at one point, you know, "I want you" it's like, you know, "I want you to go there and be nice and be interested in him and you know, because even if you don't work there, it's good, you know, if you guys are friends and stuff."
And I'm like, "Well, I don't really think he was gonna want to be friends with a 24-year-old."
LEWINSKY: You know? And I don't. I mean, it's like
TRIPP: He doesn't mean that. He means this is a good person for you to know.
TRIPP: That's what he's telling you.
LEWINSKY: I know.
TRIPP: And essentially what he's telling you is, this is an awesome opportunity for you to network.
... TRIPP: ... So there is some goodness there, Monica. He's a (expletive) at times, and I think he's a compulsive sexomaniac, and I think he can't control himself, and I think a lot of things.
LEWINSKY: Well, he's done a damn good job of controling himself around me.
LEWINSKY: ... I have decided I am gonna make him do this and, you know what? I don't (REDACTED) give a (REDACTED). He got together with (REDACTED) all the time on their overseas trips, and I'm gonna make him let me meet him on one of his (REDACTED) domestic trips and spend three hours with me in his (REDACTED) hotel room, and I don't care.
... LEWINSKY: ... I deserve just as much as everybody else 'cause I got sure got the (REDACTED) deal.
... TRIPP: How the hell are you going to go on a domestic trip? ... How are you gonna get into his room?
LEWINSKY: Well, he's just gonna have to make it happen. ...
... LEWINSKY: I go into the back and I like get plonked down into the back, into the study, for probably 20 minutes, a half an hour. So (yawning) finally the creep walked out and then
TRIPP: Came in?
LEWINSKY: Came in. Finally. And he had like one minute.
TRIPP: What was happening then?
LEWINSKY: Well, see, he had a a president oh, no. Was he president? Whatshisname, the Mexico guy, Zedillo.
LEWINSKY: Waiting for him.
TRIPP: You're kidding.
LEWINSKY: No. No.
TRIPP: So how was it?
LEWINSKY: It was I mean, it was it was so nothing that you can't even say can't even grade it. You know, I mean
TRIPP: 'Cause it was so quick.
... TRIPP: At least you got in, Monica.
LEWINSKY: ... I am like so grateful for that. You have no idea. ... Oh, my God, Linda, he looked so (REDACTED) gorgeous.
LEWINSKY: I don't know. He just looked so gorgeous.
... LEWINSKY: ... So then I kept trying to open the drawers, and they wouldn't open.
TRIPP: Jesus. Alarms probably went off.
TRIPP: Tried to open the ... drawers. You are a nut.
LEWINSKY: I'm just nosy. ...
TRIPP: So that's all you discovered in the study, huh?
LEWINSKY: Well, I looked at the CDs, and I looked at all the books. He it's really weird. Like, he has these CDs that are really weird that he has them in the office. They're not CDs he's like Sax for Lovers and stuff. ...
TRIPP: Oh, I'm sure he gets all sorts of saxophone ones. ...
LEWINSKY: It's so funny to me that he has Vox there. It's so weird.
TRIPP: Well, that he wouldn't take home, would he?
LEWINSKY: ... I should mark put a marker or something in where the good part is. He probably hasn't even gotten there yet.
TRIPP: Well, he'll find it eventually, if he hasn't read it yet. I'm sure it will ring true to him.
LEWINSKY: Yeah. I mean, so I felt good, you know. That I felt like, OK, they're you know, there are like little reminders of me there. ...
... TRIPP: He must feel as though everybody potentially can turn. Do you know what I mean?
LEWINSKY: But that's his own fault.
LEWINSKY: Because if you (REDCTED) people over, they're going to turn around and (REDACTED) you.
TRIPP: You didn't, and you wouldn't.
LEWINSKY: No, I wouldn't. But most people would, you know. ...
TRIPP: Well, you have every reason to be mad.
LEWINSKY: I don't know but then but a lot of it, though, too, is that it's like, OK, this happens in everyday life. People stop liking each other, you know. Women every day I'm sure every minute of every day somebody is getting dumped. ...
So he just stopped liking me. Well, part of the problem is that instead of just saying "I don't like you anymore" he pulled all this other (stuff). So it's now become, you know, my obsession to prove him wrong, you know. ...
'Cause, really, he's not trying to be good, and he just doesn't like me.
TRIPP: I know.
LEWINSKY: So he should just say that. And because, of course, I don't know, somehow that'll make me feel better pff.
TRIPP: Oh. Except that I can tell you this. I don't have a firm feeling either way on that subject. ...
I don't have a feeling either way that he's full of (REDACTED)
LEWINSKY: I don't believe
TRIPP: and he was conning you.
LEWINSKY: a single word of what he said. I don't believe for one minute that he is being good.
TRIPP: You really don't.
LEWINSKY: I really don't. I really don't. I thought I said to myself, I said, OK I will believe he's being good if he calls me, and we have phone sex, OK, like while this stress is going on ... because then I know he's trying to be as good as he can be
LEWINSKY: but he's stressed out, and he needs this. ...
And not only do we not have phone sex, I don't even (REDACTED) hear from him. And I think that's his guilt. I think he feels guilty.
LEWINSKY: Because he's with other people.
TRIPP: Oh, you
LEWINSKY: So, what, he's going to call me, and maybe he's afraid I'm going to hear in his voice? I don't know.
TRIPP: (sighing) Oh, God. ...
LEWINSKY: But the bottom line truth is, is that he can see me any night of this week. Just like when he wanted to see me, and I got my ass over there at (REDACTED).
TRIPP: Oh, yeah. That was about me.
TRIPP: Yeah, that's lovely. Well, that's just 'cause he was (REDACTED) scared.
LEWINSKY: Well, but do you see what I mean? So it's not like it's not possible.
LEWINSKY: It's doable.
TRIPP: Yeah, it's doable. ...
You know, I tried to figure out whether I believed your version of what that one night (sic), whatever night that was the Eleanor Mondale thing.
LEWINSKY: Oh, no. You know what? Maybe or maybe not. I find it a little too coincidental. But if she's in a new relationship, that just seems really bizarre to me.
LEWINSKY: She's in the new relationship. Maybe she's not sleeping with him yt. Anyway, there's the excitement. It's the president.
LEWINSKY: You know? If he begged her. ...
TRIPP: ... Well, I believe he really does care about you down deep. Because I don't think it would have taken I don't think this entire fiasco would have gone on as long as did if he didn't. ...
You weren't one of his disposables. And I think the ludicrous aspect of it got to him, like "Holy (REDACTED) she might she could be my daughter. I would be (REDACTED) fried. Even I see" he would be saying to himself "Even I can see that much."
LEWINSKY: I hate him.
TRIPP: No, you don't.
LEWINSKY: I do.
TRIPP: You hate his behavior at times. ...
(Lewinsky talks about the men with whom she has had sexual intercourse.)
TRIPP: Well, I guess you can count the big creep in a sort of half-assed way.
LEWINSKY: Not at all. I never even came close to sleeping with him.
TRIPP: Why, because you were standing up?
LEWINSKY: We didn't have sex, Linda. Not we didn't have sex.
TRIPP: Well, what do you call it?
LEWINSKY: We fooled around.
LEWINSKY: Not sex.
TRIPP: Oh, I don't know. I think if you go to if you go to orgasm, that's having sex.
LEWINSKY: No, it's not.
TRIPP: Yes it is.
LEWINSKY: No it's not. It's
TRIPP: It's not having
LEWINSKY: Having sex is having intercourse.
TRIPP: Oh, you've been around him too long. That's his
LEWINSKY: That's well, that's my then I've had sex with a lot more people.
TRIPP: Oh? (Laughing).
LEWINSKY: Having sex is having intercourse. That's how most people would
TRIPP: Oh, so (REDACTED) jobs and all of that don't count?
LEWINSKY: They don't count.
TRIPP: Oh? Well, see? You have to inform me
LEWINSKY: Those are guys that you just fool around with.
... TRIPP: You mean it's less personal to give a (REDACTED) job than to have intercourse?
LEWINSKY: No, not necessarily. Sometimes. It depends.
TRIPP: I guess it depends.
LEWINSKY: It really depends.
TRIPP: Yeah, I'm getting an education late in life.
Continue To Part 8 of Tripp-Lewinsky tapes