Tripp-Lewinsky Tapes (2)
LEWINSKY: I don't think he would have been upset if I actually got a job there.
TRIPP: Oh, I don't think so either.
LEWINSKY: But I think at the same time, he wasn't gonna he wasn't going to, you know, have a fight with her about it. ...
TRIPP: And, also, I think he didn't want to leave himself open to having to get too much into it.
LEWINSKY: You know. And so my mom brought up a good point and she said, "Okay Monica, so all, so you want him to get an answer from these people and they'll say you know we were trying to protect you because if this thing came out it would be awful" and she said, "And, what's he gonna say? He's gonna say, 'Thanks for protecting me.' You know. That's what he's gonna say."
TRIPP: (Coughing) Hmmm.
LEWINSKY: And there's there's some truth to that.
TRIPP: But they didn't know you had an affair with him.
LEWINSKY: ... well, I don't know. Who do you ... think didn't know? ...
TRIPP: Well.
LEWINSKY: Marsha didn't know?
TRIPP: ... She doesn't know anything, does she? I mean she only knows what she suspects. Right? Who would have, who could have definitively told her? ... Did you ever get the sense that she perceived you as a girlfriend?
LEWINSKY: I don't know what she perceived me as. I don't know. Because the last conversation, you know, there was a there was a difference between when I first met with her and then after she talked to whomever it was in Legisative Affairs.
TRIPP: Mm-hmmm.
LEWINSKY: And there was a difference there and then there was an even bigger difference after you know the last conversation I had with her, I was much more frank. ... And, my mom just said, she goes: "Well, you know" because then I said, "Well, fine. Then I'll send this note to Marsha" you know and send him a copy. And she goes, "Why? So that they can say, `See how crazy and unstable she is? See how good it is that we didn't bring her back?" You know?
TRIPP: Mm-hmm. ...
LEWINSKY: ... you know, I felt a little bit like ... what my mom is saying, there's a lot of truth to it. You know? And she said, "Look, life is not fair." ... Because she was saying, you know, "This is not a good situation. You were miserable when you worked there." And I said, "I understand that, you know." I said, "But I'm not ready to give it up because I know it's a bad situation." Do you know what I mean?
I, I have not said to myself, I have not said, "You know what, Monica? This is a bad situation. You should not be involved with this person. It's just there's no happiness here. You just need to get away from it."
TRIPP: Mm-hmmm. ...
LEWINSKY: I know it to be true, but I can't make that decision yet. And I just, you know, so I said to her, "I understand where you're coming from, but from where I'm coming from I'm just tired, I'm just tired of, of every week, tere's something new."
TRIPP: Well, look. You can know something on an intellectual level and understand it and comprehend it and not know about it on an emotional (level). ...
LEWINSKY: ... And she just said, she said, "Look, he's gonna read that letter, and he's gonna get mad at you." I don't know.
TRIPP: I know how you feel though. You wish you could just show him.
LEWINSKY: Yeah. ... And it's like I can't, he hasn't even called me, you know?
TRIPP: When was the last time he called you?
(Sound of tone)
LEWINSKY: I talked to him a week ago.
TRIPP: A week ago. Well that's not Can you hold on? My phone's beeping.
LEWINSKY: Right.
TRIPP: It might be Allison.
LEWINSKY: Yeah.
(Tape skip)
TRIPP: Hello?
Unidentified speaker: (REDACTED)
(Tape skip)
TRIPP: It's like I said before, I think you should sleep on it and then you may want to modify it, you may want to not do it all all. ... Is there any way you can put it out of your mind tonight ...
LEWINSKY: Yeah.
LEWINSKY: Yeah.
... TRIPP: Well, you know, I was thinking that you should be thinking about your finale with him.
LEWINSKY: Yeah. But I guess it will have to be I don't know, around Christmas.
TRIPP: The other thing is, do you want to go to one of those Christmas parties there?
LEWINSKY: I don't know.
TRIPP: Because you could probably work an invitation, at the very least.
LEWINSKY: Well, you'd think a lot of things at the very least, but uh
TRIPP: I mean, you could take your mom.
LEWINSKY: My mom would vomit if she saw him.
TRIPP: I know.
LEWINSKY: I think she'd smack him.
TRIPP: I know.
LEWINSKY: Yeah.
TRIPP: It would freak him out, wouldn't it? ...
... LEWINSKY: ... I saw him on like Sunday and then I said to him, I said, "Oh, look for me at the arrival ceremony on blah, blah, blah. My mom and my aunt are coming."
TRIPP: But he didn't know which was which.
LEWINSKY: No, but he, you know, he said, "I saw them. They're cute." And I said, "Shut up."
TRIPP: (Laughing.)
LEWINSKY: Not that cute. Like, not cuter than me.
TRIPP: I wonder what he was thinking?
LEWINSKY: How he could do them, too.
TRIPP: Well, probably thinking it would be more appropriate to do them. I mean, they're even younger than he is, for God's sake.
LEWINSKY: Right. My mom is younger than he is.
TRIPP: Mm-hmm. I wonder if he ever reflects on the fact that here he is having a fling with someone that is close to his daughter's age. And I have to say in answer to my own question, I believe a lot he's thought about that, because I think that's a great big part.
LEWINSKY: He's never said it, and I thought if he
TRIPP: Oh, God, Monica. He's not going to say that, because that just that that just brings to he forefront a really crummy issue. ...
LEWINSKY: Oh. (Sigh.) ...
... TRIPP: Good. Well, what are you gonna wear when you go to ummm L.A.?
LEWINSKY: Well, I have my black uniform. I'll wear that ...
... TRIPP: Okay.
LEWINSKY: And then I'm gonna wear the navy dress I wore to the radio address that still has the (REDACTED) on it for Thanksgiving.
TRIPP: Well, how you're what, you're gonna get it cleaned?
LEWINSKY: Yeah.
TRIPP: Oh, God.
LEWINSKY: Well, I mean, like I haven't worn it for a year, you know?
TRIPP: Yeah.
LEWINSKY: It's about time. Out with the old, you know?
TRIPP: Oh, that's too bad.
LEWINSKY: I know ...
TRIPP: See, I think I would suggest another outfit for the radio address that makes you I mean, for the radio address for the Thanksgiving that makes you look so beautiful.
LEWINSKY: Well, that dress I don't care about pretty; I care about thin. That's all I care about.
TRIPP: Well, okay. And this outfit makes you look thin and beautiful ...
(Lewinsky and Tripp discuss a phone call to Betty Currie at the White House.)
LEWINSKY: The first time I call, I said, "Listen, I have two things to tell you. First," and I did the Vernon thing.
Then I said, "Second, I got wind that the missus is leaving tomorrow, and since I know it's easier, he has a lot more flexibility when she's not there, I was thinking I wanted to see if I could come see him for 15 minutes."
TRIPP: Yeah.
LEWINSKY: You know? So then she said, "Well, okay, I'll check with him." And then I said
TRIPP: And that was before I left, right?
LEWINSKY: Right.
TRIPP: Okay.
LEWINSKY: You know? I said in the note to him it was probably stupid now.
TRIPP: What?
LEWINSKY: Because I sort of was like, you know what, I want to take him. Hhh.
TRIPP: Well, I don't blame you.
LEWINSKY: You know? But then I what I said in the note, it's like if I say now I want to take him, it's gonna be mishy-moshy.
TRIPP: No.
LEWINSKY: Well, because I said to him you know, I'm like, "Pay attention to his facial expressions when he meets you," you know? I'm like, "That's what I wanted to see."
TRIPP: Yeah.
LEWINSKY: You know? And something or another. And then I make a joke and I said, "And I want a full report."
...TRIPP: Well, I guess it's possible she passed the card that you sent in. Who signs for that card, by the way?
LEWINSKY: What do you mean?
TRIPP: Well, whenever you courier stuff, who signs for it?
LEWINSKY: The intern.
TRIPP: Is she she doesn't know about you.
LEWINSKY: No.
TRIPP: All right. I just get worried.
LEWINSKY: Well, I know.
TRIPP: I wonder if she's a Nancy person.
LEWINSKY: No. It's Betty's intern, and I think it's a boy.
TRIPP: It'a boy?
LEWINSKY: I think so. Uh they're finally getting smart. But then the other thing then then the second time when I called, she asked me she said, "Well, did you mention any of this to him?"
TRIPP: Uh-huh.
LEWINSKY: in the card. And I and I or she said something. "Did you say anything in the letter?" That's what she said to me. And I thought at first maybe she meant "anything" she needed to be careful, to make sure he threw it away, or whatever.
TRIPP: Yeah.
LEWINSKY: and blah, blah, blah. And I said, "Well, what," and then I sort of hesitated and she goes, "Well, did you mention that you wanted to see him in the note?"
And I said, "Well, yeah, but I asked him if I could come by on Saturday morning. I didn't know what time he was leaving." And she said, "Oh, well, I think he's leaving too early." I said, "Well, then, you know, maybe tomorrow (inaudible)." And she goes, "There are a lot of people around."
TRIPP: Mm-hmm. I I I you know what? I get I get very skeptical of Betty. Because sometimes it it's as clear as the writing on your face that this shouldn't be hard, you know. But, unfortunately, she's the only way to get to them.
LEWINSKY: I mean, maybe I can say I I mean, you know, I'm going to (REDACTED) call her tomorrow morning
TRIPP: I know.
LEWINSKY: And maybe I can say, "You know, maybe you can try and talk to him sooner rather than later. Look what happened last time." I may say that.
TRIPP: Yeah. That's not that's not you know, look
LEWINSKY: Or or maybe "Let's not have a repeat of last week."
TRIPP: Yes.
...LEWINSKY: I don't know if he'll pick this up or not. He probably won't because he's such an idiot
TRIPP: Hmpf.
LEWINSKY: but when I said remember I told you about the song? Well, I said, "When I was stuck hiding out in your office for half an hour."
TRIPP: Yeah.
LEWINSKY: you know, last week, I noticed you have CDs
TRIPP: Yeah, this may be the first time he knows how long you were in there.
LEWINSKY: Exactly. Like, "Wait a minute. You were in there for half an hour?"
TRIPP: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's pretty good, too.
LEWINSKY: But I don't know that he'll get that, you know? I don't think he'll think to himself, "Oh, you were in there for half an hour, and I was there, but I only saw you for 60 seconds. Why was that?" You know? I don't know.
TRIPP: He's a bright man. It'll cross his mind.
LEWINSKY: I don't know. So I just I'm just mad, you know? (Sigh.)
TRIPP: ... This navy blue dress. Now all I would say to you is: I know how you feel today and I know why you feel the way you do today, but you have a very long life ahead of you. ... I would rather you had that in your possession if you need it years from now. That's all I'm gonna ay.
LEWINSKY: You think that I can hold onto a dress for 10, 15 years with (REDACTED) from
TRIPP: Hey, listen. My cousin is a genetic whatchamacalit
LEWINSKY: Uh.
TRIPP: And during O.J. Simpson, I questioned all the DNA and do you know what he told me?
LEWINSKY: Huh?
TRIPP: ... He said that on a rape victim now ... if she has preserved a pinprick size of crusted semen, 10 years from that time, if she takes a wet Q-Tip and blobs it on there ... they can match the DNA with absolutely with certainty.
LEWINSKY: So why I (sic) can't I scratch that ... off and put it in a plastic bag?
TRIPP: You can't scratch it off. You would have to use a Q-Tip.
And I feel like this is what I would tell my own daughter. ...
LEWINSKY: Well, I'll think about it. ...
TRIPP: ... It could be your only insurance policy down the road. Or it could never be needed and you can throw it away.
But I- I never, ever want to read about your going off the deep end because someone comes out and calls you a stalker or something and you have and he confirms it. ...
Maybe I'm being paranoid.
LEWINSKY: ... I am so annoyed with Betty.
TRIPP: I know. I know.
LEWINSKY: I am so annoyed with her. ... And I feel like ... didn't we go through this last week?
TRIPP: Yes.
LEWINSKY: You know?
TRIPP: And look what happened. A 60 (REDACTED) second visit. (Sigh.) ... You know, I think sometimes and this is not to take her side because, believe me, I don't. I think sometimes she just doesn't know what the (REDACTED) to do. Like if she doesn't know if she has the nerve to tell you she didn't get a chance to talk to him. She's a wimp. I betcha anything that what you would feel comfortable doing, look, he's not that he's he's a pretty decent guy to work for, other than when he erupts.
LEWINSKY: Right. No, I know. ...
TRIPP: ... but somehow she's got this hero worship (REDACTED) going on with him. And maybe she is intimidated to to take the initiative. Do you know what I'm saying? And then she's faced with, "Oh, God, now I have to tell her I didn't do it yet."
LEWINSKY: But the thing I don't understand is I'm gonna call and trap her anyway, so why not at least score some (REDACTED) brownie points for herself?
TRIPP: Yeah. I don't understand. Plus, I could be I told you last week when he went golfing after he had suggested that you come over, I knew in my gut something was really, really wrong, or he didn't know. And he didn't know. He did not know because she didn't tell him. So you would think she would have learned her lesson. So probably what she plans to do, I bet anything, is tomorrow she'll say something at some point.
LEWINSKY: ... It's like the radio address is at 6:15, and I need to make arrangements to leave. I have to go home and change if I get to go to that at least.
But, see, but this is the thing I don' understand. What I'm what I'm not understanding for myself is if I take Carl to the radio address, I'm not gonna get to spend any time with the creep.
TRIPP: No, that's right. That's why I'm not sure that's the best solution.
LEWINSKY: No.
TRIPP: Because I thought that you would be escorted out the same way they would be.
LEWINSKY: Right. ... I think I need to write on a note and say to him, "Look, I don't want to go through what happened last Thursday of, you know ... of me relying on Betty to try and talk to you."
TRIPP: Right.
LEWINSKY: "So this is what I'd like to do. I don't think it's asking too much." I guess I shouldn't
TRIPP: Actually, you could put it as a choice situation. You could say, "I can " Well, I don't know if you want to do this, but you could say, "I can bring Carl along and escort him out and stay and visit for a few minutes, or I can wait until you've done and come on over for 15 minutes then."
LEWINSKY: Well, the problem is Nancy, OK? And and I think I need to just say this to him in a note. ... I can't come when Nancy and Steven are there.
... LEWINSKY: Betty's going on the trip. So what it means is that first of all, she's probably going to need to go home and pack.
TRIPP: Yes.
LEWINSKY: You know? But I don't care. Let her stay up all night. You know what I mean?
TRIPP: All right. ...
... LEWINSKY: But the only way this is gonna work, OK the only, only, only way it can work is if he leaves the office and Betty stays, because then Nancy will leave.
TRIPP: I know. But, you know what, I don't know that she suggests that level of detail to him.
LEWINSKY: I understand. But I suggested that to him once before, and he just ignored it. But maybe I just need to suggest it again.
TRIPP: You mean in a note?
LEWINSKY: Yeah. ...
... LEWINSKY: You know? I'm tired of having to pussyfoot around everybody. I'm leaving.
TRIPP: You are leaving. You're right. Well, Monica, my my feeling is you haven't said anything tonight that I would feel would be threatening to him
LEWINSKY: No.
TRIPP: to put him in a note.
LEWINSKY: But, you know what's interesting? And I it's like I'd love to be able to tell this to him in person is I would not be getting angry right now, had Betty done what she should have done.
TRIPP: Oh, I know.
LEWINSKY: Do you see what I mean?
TRIPP: Yep. Yes, I do. I II she stymies me. She she she makes me speechless. The level of sheer stupidity sometimes. Because I can't think it's intentional because it causes such severe ramification down the road. It can't be.
LEWINSKY: They don't think that, Linda ...
(new tape)
(LEWINSKY-TRIPP TELEPHONE CONVERSATION)
... TRIPP: Oh yeah, right. Oh, listen. I don't want to talk about me or the weekend or anything, but ... about this thing coming upAre you prepared?
LEWINSKY: I am not prepared. I am not prepared at all and I don't know what to do.
TRIPP: OK ... Uh, are you comfortable with how it's arranged?
LEWINSKY: No, I'm not comfortable.
TRIPP: How has this all happened?
LEWINSKY: I I - you know what? I don't like this situation at all because I can't win for losing, OK? I'm not comfortable meeting him in his hotel room.
TRIPP: His hotel room?
LEWINSKY: That is how it is planned as of now.
TRIPP: Don't you dare, Monica.
LEWINSKY: You know?
TRIPP: You go into his hotel room and and I will never speak to you again.
LEWINSKY: Well, I don't know what I'm supposed to do because guess what, I thought of what the alternative is, right? So I go to breakfast with him, right?
TRIPP: Go into the doesn't it have a place for breakfast?
LEWINSKY: It does, OK, and if someone sees me having breakfast with him.
TRIPP: Listen to me. You are totally covered with that. Even if anyone saw you, he's a friend of Peter Strauss' or he's a friend of Walter Kaye's. There's a million things you can say. This is just totally ludicrous. You go into his hotel room, you are setting yourself up. You are not doing it.
Continue To Part 3 of Tripp-Lewinsky tapes