WASHINGTON - In secretly recorded conversations between two individuals deeply entwined in the ATF's controversial "Fast and Furious" operation, the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry is described as "collateral damage."
The recordings were obtained exclusively by CBS News. The man who made them - Arizona gun dealer Andre Howard - ran the Lone Wolf Trading Company and was speaking with Hope MacAllister, the ATF operation's case agent.
Two of the guns Howard sold while cooperating with the ATF that were later found at Terry's murder.
"It happened. It's terrible," Howard said. "That's life ok we move on."
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Both Howard and MacAllister also shared concerns about Special Agent John Dodson who by that point had gone public with allegations about "Fast and Furious" and was assigned to the FBI. It was Dodson who first publicly disclosed allegations about "Fast and Furious" in an interview with CBS News correspondent Sharyl Attkisson. That interview took place several weeks before the recorded conversations took place. In his interview, Dodson said thousands of guns had been allowed to "walk" to Mexico - straight into the hands of the cartels - without intervention by ATF.(Scroll down to listen to the audio and read the text of the excerpts)
In the following excerpts, they talk about the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry. Two weapons purchased by ATF Fast and Furious suspects were found at the murder scene. They also discuss concerns that ATF whistleblower John Dodson, who had then been moved out of the ATF office and tasked to the FBI, has information that could be damaging to the government.
Dealer: Unfortunately a consequence occurred from a weapon shall we say that found its way into the wrong area ok and that was not anticipated. Nobody could foresee that that's collateral damage I think the term is. It happened. It's terrible. That's life ok we move on. Unfortunately, Mr. Dodson with his allegation is a pain in the a--. Now, my understanding now is it will be impossible now that he will be able to substantiate anything directly because that evidence is gone. I want you to know that. It don't exist. Not that one. You understand me?
Dealer: Good. I get that.
Dealer: My biggest problem is Dodson. You know this guy has damaged the hell out of me. I mean I walked out of here yesterday.
Dealer: I got it from the tattoo parlor, I got some damn Mexicans and white trash over there.
Dealer: Yelling across the parking lot: "can i buy 300 AK 47's?? Would you turn me in, over that?" This is the kind of sh-- i'm getting.
Dealer: The most damning thing that you guys got to be aware of I think hypothetically is was there, you have to ask yourselves this first I'm just throwin this out there, was there a communication that hypothetically the US Attorney's office uh was entertained with the DOJ in reference to any ballistics tests or anything? Is there any way any of these idiots..
Agent: The problem is I mean we're not investigating that case.
Dealer: I know the FBI is.
Agent: And he's (Dodson) assigned to the FBI. I, I have not, I don't have any way of knowing what he has access to. And that's on the FBI. I mean that's on them. If they consider him, don't consider him an operational security issue, that's their f-----g fault. But I don't have access to that sh--, I don't know I have no idea what the FBI.
Dealer: (unintell.) I know you don't...I'm saying that's a whole parallel issue.
Dealer: What about the emails copies he's got?
Agent: Those emails are a year ago that's why I wonder what he I mean
Dealer: Let me help you out. Here's what I smell. There's a reason you ran (unintell.) about not talking about any of your other agents out there.
Dealer: You got some rats in there honey...
Dealer: I'll tell you some of these motherf-----s, I don't know if they're giving it to Dodson, I think they are, somebody's got some inter-agency copies not just this sh--.