Obama Defends Afghanistan Timetable Plan

As President Obama approaches his first anniversary in the White House, some of the public's enthusiasm for his ambitious agenda at home and abroad is on the wane. While he helped avert a worldwide financial collapse, and may well achieve his goal of health care reform during his first year in office, the U.S. economy is still very weak with double digit unemployment, and his approval ratings are at the lowest point of his presidency.

This past week, before he left for Europe to accept the Nobel Peace Prize, 60 Minutes correspondent Steve Kroft sat down with the president in the Map Room at the White House for a wide ranging discussion, much of it focused on his decision to send an additional 30,000 troops to Afghanistan.

Transcript: President Obama, Part 1
Transcript: President Obama, Part 2
Obama Versus the "Fat Cats"
Obama: Gatecrashers Lapse "Won't Happen Again"
Obama: Senate Will Pass Health Bill by Christmas
Web Extra: Afghanistan and Pakistan
Web Extra: What Pakistan Must Do
Web Extra: Why This War?
Web Extra: His Biggest Frustration
Web Extra: Unfinished Business
Web Extra: The Party Crashers

Steve Kroft: Was that the most difficult decision of your presidency so far?

President Barack Obama: Absolutely.

Kroft: Why?

Obama: Because when you go to Walter Reed and you travel to Dover and you visit Arlington and you see the sacrifices that young men and women and their families are making there is nothing more profound. And it is a solemn obligation on the part of me as commander in chief to get those decisions right.

Kroft: In your West Point speech, you seemed very analytical, detached, not emotional. The tone seemed to be, "I've studied this situation very hard. It's a real mess. The options aren't very good. But we need to go ahead and do this." There were no exhortations or promises of victory. Why? Why that tone?

Obama: You know, that was actually probably the most emotional speech that I've made, in terms of how I felt about it. Because I was looking out over a group of cadets, some of whom were gonna be deployed in Afghanistan. And potentially some might not come back. There is not a speech that I've made that hit me in the gut as much as that speech.

And one of the mistakes that was made over the last eight years is for us to have a triumphant sense about war.

There was a tendency to say, "We can go in. We can kick some tail. This is some glorious exercise." When in fact, this is a tough business.

Kroft: Most Americans right now don't believe this war is worth fighting. And most of the people in your party don't believe this is a war worth fighting.

Obama: Right.

Kroft: Why did you go ahead?

Obama: Because I think it's the right thing to do. And that's my job. If I was worried about what polled well, there are a whole bunch of things we wouldn't have done this year.

Kroft: Do you feel like you've staked your presidency on it?

Obama: There are a whole bunch of things that I've staked my presidency on, right. That are tough, and entail some risks. There's no guarantees. But that I'm confident we have addressed in the best possible way.

Kroft: The West Point speech was greeted, it was greeted with a great deal of confusion.

Obama: I disagree with that statement.

Kroft: You do?

Obama: I absolutely do. Forty million people watched it. And I think a whole bunch of people understood what we intend to do.

Kroft: But it raised a lot of questions.

Obama: Now, it-

Kroft: Some people thought it was contradictory. That's a fair criticism.

Obama: I don't think it's a fair criticism. I think that what you may be referring to is the fact that on the one hand I said, "We're gonna be sending in additional troops now." On the other hand, "By July 2011, we're gonna move into a transition phase where we're drawing our troops down."

Kroft: Right.

Obama: There shouldn't be anything confusing about that. That's-

Kroft: Well-

Obama: First of all, that's something that we executed over the last two years in Iraq. So, I think the American people are familiar with the idea of a surge. In terms of the rationale for doing it, we don't have an Afghan military right now, security force, that can stabilize the country. If we are effective over the next two years, that then frees us up to transition into a place where we can start drawing down.

Now, the other point of confusion I think that at least the press has identified is this notion of, "Well, what happens on July 2011?"

Kroft: Right. What does happen?

Obama: And what I've said is that we then start transitioning into a draw down phase. How many U.S. troops are coming out, how quickly will be determined by conditions on the ground.

Kroft: So, if the situation is not going well in July of 2011, you can decide - and I'm not making light of this - to send home the band and a couple of civil affairs units and non-essential units and keep as many combat people on the ground as are necessary to perform the mission.

Obama: Well look, as commander in chief, obviously, I reserve the option to do what I think is gonna be best for the American people at that point in time. And our national security. But we will know, I think, by the end of December 2010 whether or not the approach that General McChrystal has discussed in terms of securing population centers is meeting its objectives. And if the approach that's been recommended doesn't work, then yes, we're gonna be changing approaches.

Kroft: Why set a deadline? I mean, Senator McCain, most prominent.

Obama: Right. And the answer is that in the absence of a deadline, the message we are sending to the Afghans is, "It's business as usual. This is an open-ended commitment." And very frankly there are I think elements in Afghanistan who would be perfectly satisfied to make Afghanistan a permanent protectorate of the United States. In which they carry no burden. In which we're paying for a military in Afghanistan that preserves their security and their prerogatives. That's not what the American people signed off for when they went into Afghanistan in 2001. They signed up to go after al Qaeda.

Kroft: The main reason we're doing this is al Qaeda, why send 30,000 troops to Afghanistan, because according to your government's own estimates, there may be fewer than 100 al Qaeda fighters in Afghanistan. That the rest are in Pakistan and the tribal territories.

Obama: What you have here between the borders of Afghanistan and Pakistan is the epicenter of violent extremism directed against the West and directed against the United States. This is the heart of it. This is where Bin Laden is. This is where its allies are. It's from here that you see attacks launched not just against the United States, but against London, against Bali, against a whole host of countries.

Kroft: And half of this territory is in Afghanistan-

Obama: Half of this territory is in Afghanistan, half of it is in Pakistan. Ultimately, in order for us to eradicate the problem, to really go after al Qaeda, in an effective way, we are going to need more cooperation from Pakistan. There is no doubt about that.

Kroft: You're a student of history. The British lost the Revolutionary War, and the Americans lost the Vietnam War, in spite of the fact that they won almost all the major battles. They lost it because it got to be too expensive, it was too far away, and not enough people cared about it. Aren't you facing some of those same problems right now?

Obama: I think what is true is that if we have an open-ended commitment in a place like Afghanistan with no clear benchmarks for what success means, that the American people who have just gone through the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, who've already endured eight years of war at some point are gonna say "enough." And rightly so.

Kroft: In Afghanistan, you can make the argument that it's not really even a country, that it is a collection of tribes. That and it is run really by a very corrupt government, some of whose major figures are alleged to be involved in the drug business, including the brother of the president. How are you gonna deal with this?

Obama: (LAUGHS) Look, I -

Kroft: I mean, how are you gonna do this?

Obama: Look, Steve, I mean the reason I laugh is because this is really hard. And there's not a question that you asked that I haven't asked in meetings, and that I don't ask myself. I don't have the luxury of choosing between the ideal and what exists on the ground. I have to make decisions based on how, given where we are right now, how do we get to the best possible place.

Kroft: Okay. Let's change the subject.

Obama: Okay, why not.

Kroft: Jobs.

Obama: We can talk about Afghanistan some more.

The president's frustration is understandable. While the economy is showing signs of growth and job losses may finally be bottoming out, the unemployment rate is still at ten percent. This past week, he outlined a new jobs program built around tax breaks for small businesses, more infrastructure projects for local and state governments, and cash rebates for people make their homes more energy efficient.

Obama: What I'm interested in is a targeted jobs package that can help to boost what's already taking place. Companies are already starting to hire again. Is there a way to boost their confidence and I think there is.

The president hopes to subsidize the jobs program and pay down some of the deficit with billions of dollars being returned to the government under the TARP program. Some Wall Street banks have recovered to the point where they can not not afford only pay back the loans, but once again hand out huge bonuses to their employees.

At three of the biggest banks, they are expected to total $30 billion. That's roughly what it will cost the government to finance the surge in Afghanistan, and President Obama is furious.

Obama: I did not run for office to be helping out a bunch of, you know, fat cat bankers on Wall Street. The only ones that are gonna be paying out these fat bonuses are the ones that have now paid back that TARP money and aren't using taxpayer loans.

Kroft: Do you think that's why they paid it back so quickly?

Obama: I think in some cases that was a motivation. Which I think tells me that the people on Wall Street still don't get it. They don't get it. They're still puzzled. "Why is it that people are mad at the banks?" Well, let's see. You guys are drawing down $10, $20 million bonuses after America went through the worst economic year that it's gone through in decades, and you guys caused the problem. And we've got ten percent unemployment. Why do you think people might be a little frustrated.

Kroft: Do you think that they've made some of these bonuses based in part on the generosity and policies of the United States government to help put the financial system back on its feet?

Obama: I think there is no doubt about it. And what's most frustrating me right now is you've got these same banks who benefitted from taxpayer assistance who are fighting tooth and nail with their lobbyists up on Capitol Hill fighting against financial regulatory reform.

Kroft: Why is it taking so long?

Obama: Well, everything appears to take long in Congress. We can talk about health care (LAUGHS) if you want. This is democracy in action.

Kroft: You mentioned Congress and health care. You ran for office based on the fact that you were going to try and reform the system. You wanted to change the status quo in Washington. Then you came in, and you turned over your top priority, health care, to the Congress.

Obama: That's not true.

Kroft: Five-hundred-thirty-five well, you laid out what you wanted, and you set the guidelines.

Obama: Right. Exactly.

Kroft: And then stood back and turned it over to 535 people who produced a 2,000-page bill that is-

Obama: What?

Kroft: Well, I haven't read it. So

Obama: Finish your thought, Steve.

Kroft: I can't really. I'd say some people think is incomprehensible. Not very many people have read it. I've not met anybody who's read it.

Obama: Steve, let's be clear here. Seven presidents have tried to reform a health care system that everyone acknowledges is broken. Seven presidents have failed up until this point. We are now that close to having a bill that does all the things that I said and most experts said needed to be done when we started this process. It is not only deficit neutral, but will actually bring down the deficit according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Kroft: You think it's going to pass?

Obama: Yes.

Kroft: Do you think it's gonna pass before Christmas?

Obama: I think it's-

Kroft: In the Senate?

Obama: I think it's going to pass out of the Senate before Christmas.

Kroft: Are you going to be involved in that process?

Obama: I've been involved the whole time.

At that point, we thought the interview was over, and then our executive producer suggested one more question.

Kroft: The gate crashers.

Obama: Yeah.

Kroft: By now, you must know-

Obama: It's really a shame that I had to go through a whole 60 Minutes interview without talking about the gate crashers. (LAUGHTER) Good catch.

Kroft: You must know, you must know what happened. Can you share that with us?

Obama: I think that what I know is what everybody knows. Which is that these people should not have gotten through the gate.

Kroft: Were you unhappy with your social secretary?

Obama: I was unhappy with everybody who was involved in the process. And so, it was a screw up. Now, I don't think that from a policy perspective, this was the most important thing or even the fifth or sixth most important thing that happened this week, although it got the most news.

Kroft: Were you angry when you found out about it?

Obama: Yes.

Kroft: Seriously angry? Right.

Obama: Yes. That's why it won't happen again.

Produced by Michael Radutzky and Frank Devine