Barack Obama Makes His Case

This past week was supposed to be the one in which Republicans and Democrats effectively decided who were going to be their presidential nominees and that seems to have happened with the Republicans and John McCain. But for the Democrats it's different: Hillary Clinton, once the prohibitive favorite for the Democratic nomination, is now fighting for her life against Senator Barack Obama.

60 Minutes spent time with each of the Democrats this past week, first Senator Obama, who captured 13 out of 22 states up for grabs on Super Tuesday and capped it on Saturday with an exclamation point, sweeping Louisiana, Nebraska and Washington.

Correspondent Steve Kroft was with Obama a year ago, when he launched his improbable campaign, and rejoined him on Monday under much different circumstances.

"I know you'd like to consider yourself the underdog. But by the time we're finished with the next round, it's possible, maybe even likely, that you'll have more delegates than Senator Clinton. Or that you will have won more states. And that you will have raised more money. And have more money on hand. So explain to me how you're an underdog," Kroft asked.

"Well, she continues to have enormous name recognition. I think there's a lot of affection for the Clinton brand among Democrats. And, you know, she still has more institutional support. So, you know, part of what we have to do is, you know, score a convincing knock out. You know, we're like the challenger and she's like the champ. And, you know, you don't win on points," Obama explained.

On Super Tuesday, Obama picked up more delegates than almost anyone expected. And 60 Minutes was at Obama's headquarters with his chief strategist, David Axelrod, when the first exit polls began rolling in.

Early exuberance was tempered somewhat by losses in California, Massachusetts, and New Jersey. Later that night, the 60 Minutes team was invited to the candidate's hotel suite, where he watched the returns with his family.

"What do you think?" Kroft asked.

"Split decision," Obama predicted.

"You feel like you've got the momentum?" Kroft asked.

"You know, seems like everywhere we go, the longer we are in this race, the stronger we get," Obama said.

The original campaign staff of 30 has swollen to 700, plus hundreds of thousands of volunteers. Obama has received checks from 650,000 contributors and is raising a million dollars a day. But in some ways the real race is just now beginning.

"I mean, one of the problems that you have, still, is the question of experience. And you've done a lot of remarkable things in your life. But when you sit down and you look at the résumé - there's no executive experience. And, in fact, correct if I'm wrong, the only thing that you've actually run was the Harvard Law Review," Kroft pointed out.

"Well, I've run my Senate office. And I've run this campaign," the senator replied. "One of the interesting things about this experience argument is that it's often posed as just a function of longevity. You know, 'I've been here longer.' Well, you know there are a lot of companies that have been around longer than Google…but Google's performing."

He has been helped by the media's lust for a good story and the electorates' hunger for change. What he lacks in executive experience, he has made up for with a grasp of the issues, an ability to read the public mood, and the gift of turning Democratic boilerplate into political poetry.

"What began as a whisper in Springfield has swelled to a chorus of millions calling for change. It's a chorus that cannot be ignored. A chorus that cannot be deterred. This time can be different because this campaign for the presidency is different," Obama said in his Chicago Super Tuesday speech.

"When you say you want change, I mean the subtext there seems to be change from the Bushes and the Clintons," Kroft remarked.

"I think that there's a difference, obviously, between the Bushes and the Clintons," Obama replied. "But I do think that Washington is comfortable with itself. And I think the Clintons are part of that status quo that has to change itself."

Asked what he thinks is the biggest difference between himself and Senator Hillary Clinton, Obama told Kroft, "I think Senator Clinton is smart and can be an effective advocate. But I think that the biggest difference is that Senator Clinton accepts the rules of the game as they are set up. She accepts money from PACs and lobbyists. I don't accept that politics has to be driven by those special interests and lobbyists."

Obama is getting plenty of support from Hollywood to Wall Street and continues to pick up endorsements from colleagues in Congress. There is not much difference between the two candidates on matters of policy; the difference is in style and presentation.

Obama has staked out detailed positions on foreign affairs, the economy, health care and energy, all of which can be found on his Web site, but not in his stump speech.

The 18,000 people who turned out for him in Seattle on Friday did not come to hear details, and neither did 3,000 others who were turned away. But Obama found time to talk to them, using a bullhorn to address the overflow crowd.

"You talk about big ideas and often with a lack of specificity. And it's been one of the complaints about your campaign," Kroft remarked.

"Remember, early on in the campaign, the complaint about me was that I was too professorial. That I would go through these town hall meetings and, you know, go into great detail about this and that and the other. And you know, wondering what ever happened to that inspiring guy who spoke at the Democratic…convention. Yeah. And now that I'm inspiring people and saying, 'Hey, you know, where is the specifics?' And so, you know, if there are issues that you want to cover right now, I'm happy to," Obama said. "So why don't we work those through?"

"What do you think of what's going on in Iraq right now?" Kroft asked.

"Well, I think, on the positive side, we've seen a reduction in violence. And I don't think anybody can deny that," Obama said. "What we haven't seen is the kind of political reconciliation or accommodation between the Sunni and the Shia and the Kurds that are required in order for Iraq to stabilize. But I completely reject the notion, you know, most forcefully presented by John McCain that we should commit ourselves to a 50-year or a 60-year or a 100-year occupation in order to assure stability in Iraq. I think that is a recipe for disaster."

"At a time when American casualties are down, at a time when the violence is down, particularly affecting the Iraqi population, is that the right time to try and set time tables for withdrawing all American troops? I mean you talked about…the end of 2009," Kroft remarked.

"Yeah, absolutely. I think now is precisely the time. I think that it is very important for us to send a clear signal to the Iraqis that we are not gonna be here permanently. We're not gonna set up permanent bases. That they are going to have to resolve their differences and get their country functioning," Obama said.

"And you pull out according to that time table, regardless of the situation? Even if there's serious sectarian violence?" Kroft asked.

"No, I always reserve as commander in chief, the right to assess the situation," Obama replied.

"It has cost us over half a trillion dollars so far. When the final tab is tallied it may have cost us as much as two trillion dollars," Obama said at a stump speech. "For that amount of money we could have rebuilt every bridge, every road, every school, every hospital. We could have put in place all the homeland security that was needed. We could have made America more safe. Could put people back to work. Sent our kids to college."

"You have made the case that you have the best chance to defeat John McCain, or another Republican. Why do you feel that way?" Kroft asked.

"There are lot of people out there who say, 'I'm trying to figure out who to vote for, McCain or Obama.' There aren't that many who are saying, 'I'm trying to figure out who to vote for, Clinton or McCain,'" Obama replied.

"And you believe that Senator Clinton would galvanize the Republican base against her?" Kroft asked.

"That's not my belief. I think the polls consistently show that. I mean, she's got problems with independents. And she's got problems with even moderate Republicans. Now the Republicans are come after me. And, you know, I think the argument that she often makes is, 'Oh, the guy's untested. He hasn't been in the battle,'" Obama said.

"You can't stand up to them," Kroft remarked.

"He won't be able to stand up to this withering scrutiny. And, you know, a lot of the things I try to point out is, you know, going up against the Clinton machine is no cake walk. They're pretty serious about winning as well," Obama said.

"They can play rough. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's no doubt that there'll be attempts on the part of the Republican Party to demonize me in a general election. But it's a lot harder to pull off. I don't start off with 47 percent of the country thinking they're not gonna vote for me," Obama added.

"There's been nastiness already. There probably gonna be more nastiness. Is there a point at which you go to the closet and pull out Clinton's skeletons?" Kroft asked.

"No. We don't play that. Yeah, I mean, one of the rules that I laid down very early in this campaign was that we will be fierce competitors but we will have some ground rules. And one of the ground rules for me is that we battle on policy differences. And that if we draw a contrast between Senator Clinton and myself, then it is based on fact," Obama said. "That we're not gonna fabricate things. We're not gonna try to distort or twist her positions."

"Not only is it offensive to me personally, but I think it's bad politics for me. That's not who I am. That's not what my supporters are looking for," he added.

To some people he can come across as being cocky and a bit aloof; others see it as confidence.

As a first-term senator, with no national campaign experience, some pundits assumed that he would fall on his face, but through 12 long months of mind-numbing, muscle-aching, adrenaline-fueled monotony and exhaustion, there has been barely a misstep.

Asked if he's the same person he was a year ago, Obama told Kroft, "I don't think I've gotten too screwed up through the process, I think. It turns out that even under this kind of stress I've got a pretty even temperament. I don't get too high, I don't get too low."

"I've seen you in the morning. You look, I know you're getting three, four hours sleep," Kroft remarked.

"You know I've held up pretty good," Obama said. "But I've been religious about getting my exercise. You know, so I've been working out every morning. That helps."

"Played a little basketball. We realized that we had played basketball before Iowa and before South Carolina. We didn't play basketball before New Hampshire and Nevada. And so now, we've made a clear rule that on Election Day, I have to play basketball," Obama said.

Asked if he played basketball on Super Tuesday, Obama said, "Absolutely."

But superstitions won't stop scrutiny. And so far, his record has received far less of it than Senator Clinton's, in part because there is less of a record to scrutinize.

The Obama camp expects that is about to change. But he has already come much farther than anyone expected.

"I had to think about this long and hard at the beginning of this process and say, 'Are you deluding yourself? Or do you really think that you can do all those things?'" Obama said. "And I decided, you know, I might just be able to pull it off. And so a year a later, it turns out that you know, the jury is still out. But we seem to be stirring things up pretty good."
Produced By L. Franklin Devine and Bill Owens