Horserace
June 11, 2008 12:45 PM

Cutting Through The Candidates' Rhetoric On Taxes

(CBS/AP)
The big issue in the presidential campaign this week is fiscal policy, as John McCain and Barack Obama spar over whose economic plan will most benefit the country.

The issues at the center of the debate can be a bit complicated – alternative minimum tax, anyone? – but there are ways to cut through the candidates' rhetoric and get a better sense of what their policies might mean for each of us.

Let's start with this: Barack Obama has said he will effectively raise taxes on those making more than $250,000 by allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire. (McCain initially opposed the cuts, but now supports them.) But McCain says that Obama's economic policy will result in a tax increase for all Americans, while Obama says he will institute "a middle-class tax cut that will provide $1,000 of relief to 95% of workers and their families." He also wants to eliminate income taxes for retirees making less than $50,000 per year.

One piece of evidence that Republicans point to is a suggestion by the Obama campaign that the cap on the Social Security payroll tax should (possibly) be increased. (Right now, you pay Social Security taxes up to a certain income level – the cap – above which that the tax is no longer applied.)

According to Ben Harris, a Senior Research Associate at the Brookings Institution whom we spoke to yesterday, the takeaway, once the dust settles, is this: If you make less than $250,000, there won't be a significant difference in your tax burden no matter which of the two candidates gets elected.

"Obama's plan for most people making under $250,000 would be different than McCain's, but it wouldn't be radically different," said Harris. "For most people who make under $250,000 a year, the difference is not going to be drastic at all."

"If you make more than $250,000 and you're voting with your pocketbook, it makes sense to go with McCain," he added.

Like the New York Times today, Harris characterized both plans as squarely in line with party orthodoxy.

"McCain's plan to a large extent – though not entirely – is an extension of what's been done for the past 8 years," he said.

McCain, for example, wants to eliminate the aforementioned alternative minimum tax – a minimum tax level that those who make a certain income are required to pay, regardless of their own calculations. (The initial idea behind the AMT was to keep the rich from paying less than their fair share of tax thanks to loopholes or deductions; now, however, people with relatively low incomes can be subject to it as well. More here.)

McCain also wants lower the rate of the estate tax (or "death tax," if you prefer), and raise the exemption level on the tax. He also proposes lowering the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent.

Obama, meanwhile, is proposing an estate tax exemption of $3.5 million – which means that if your estate is worth less than $3.5 million, you won't pay the estate tax. He wants to increase the rate, however, for those who do have estates above that threshold. (Obama's Director of Economic Policy Jason Furman argued on a Tuesday conference call that "99.7 percent of estates would not face the estate tax.")

Obama has also proposed raising taxes on capital gains and dividends from 15 percent to 25 percent – so that if you make money from selling a stock, for example, you will pay a higher tax rate on your profits. (As it now stands, the rate is set to revert to 20 percent after 2010. It's also worth noting that 401(k) plans are exempted from capital gains taxes.) The McCain campaign says the proposal amounts to a new tax on the middle class; as the Washington Post noted, Obama's advisors say any increases would effectively be offset by credits for lower-income families.

Obama's proposals, which include a $50 billion stimulus package and expanding and extending unemployment benefits, represent pretty standard Democratic fare when taken as a whole, according to Harris.

"Relative to the current Democratic Party, Obama falls somewhere pretty close to the middle," he said.

Obama has taken to criticizing McCain on economic policy by saying he "wants to add $300 billion more in tax breaks and loopholes for big corporations and for the wealthiest Americans." He points specifically to $1.2 billion in tax breaks for Exxon, "a company that just recorded the highest profits in history."

The Exxon tax breaks he mentions, however, don't appear to have resulted from some specific exception for the company, but are included in preexisting across-the-board corporate tax cuts. When we asked about Obama's claim, McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds hit back with this: "In 2005, Barack Obama was the only candidate in this race to vote for Vice President Cheney's energy bill, which provided billions of dollars of direct subsidies for big companies like Exxon Mobil. So for him to take issue with John McCain's position of keeping taxes low makes no sense and ignores his record."
Tags:
economy ,
taxes ,
barack obama ,
john mccain
Topics:
The Economy
Add a Comment See all 33 Comments
by mattcat25 June 11, 2008 1:10 PM PDT
The Republican Administration has already imposed an invisible tax on the American People through their energy policy of driving the cost of oil through the roof! Wealth is being diverted out from the pockets of the American People and being turned over to Big Oil Company Profits.

We%u2019re all $paying. The Oil Companies are being sheltered by the Republicans in the Senate, and the President. Yesterday, the Republican Senators blocked an energy bill and offered nothing in its place. The Republican Party isn%u2019t voting for the better interests of the American People.

Will Americans continue to vote for this type of action, or in the case the Republican Party%u2019s non-action? The Republicans refuse to act on behalf of the American People, how much can we afford to pay for gasoline?
Reply to this comment
by mattcat25 June 11, 2008 1:36 PM PDT
%u201CTaxes, Terrorism!, Taxes, Terrorism!%u201D

Let%u2019s just forget all about the THIRTY-FIVE counts of Impeachable Offenses committed by George W. Bush and all the detrimental results of the Conservative Agenda. Besides, maybe the American Voters won%u2019t notice all the money spent on Iraq being diverted to the Private War Contractors and the cost of GASOLINE?

America needs to hold elected officials accountable.
Reply to this comment
by rowdywicca June 11, 2008 1:55 PM PDT
"In 2005, Barack Obama was the only candidate in this race to vote for Vice President Cheney''s energy bill, which provided billions of dollars of direct subsidies for big companies like Exxon Mobil. So for him to take issue with John McCain''s position of keeping taxes low makes no sense and ignores his record."

EXACTLY! Obama''s ACTIONS are always very different from what he SAYS! You have to check everything he says with a fine tooth comb! He''s like a freaking rattlebox of pure KRAP!
Reply to this comment
by mattcat25 June 11, 2008 2:04 PM PDT
"In 2005, Barack Obama was the only candidate in this race to vote for Vice President Cheney''''s energy bill, which provided billions of dollars of direct subsidies for big companies like Exxon Mobil."

Maybe Americans should vote against the likes of *** Cheney.
Reply to this comment
by gocubs58 June 11, 2008 2:07 PM PDT
"Pure & Simple: Barack Obama does not have the experience or know how to protect this country from terrorism..."

Prove it. How do you know this? America''s greatest president, Lincoln, served 1 (ONE) term in the US House and yet he guilded the country during one of our darkest times, the civil war. I am in no way comparing Obama to Lincoln (too early for that), but he is very smart man that deserves at least 1 term as president to prove himself.
Reply to this comment
by hoseobama June 11, 2008 2:16 PM PDT
In case you hadn''t noticed - Lincoln was running for President in the 1860s. Things were quite different then. Many of Obama''s personal associations would have stopped Lincoln from even getting to the House of Representatives, let alone the Presidency.

No one deserves four years to prove him or herself. Our world is now way too dangerous to let an unknown lead us.
Reply to this comment
by gocubs58 June 11, 2008 2:23 PM PDT
rowdywicca spews this: EXACTLY! Obama''''s ACTIONS are always very different from what he SAYS! You have to check everything he says with a fine tooth comb! He''''s like a freaking rattlebox of pure KRAP!

-------

You conveniently forgot to mention that Obama voted in support of an an amendment to the bill that would have given the states authority to site the LNG terminals. Obama voted for the overall bill because it would encourage ethanol, clean-coal technology and other energy alternatives that would reduce demand for foreign oil.

Just thought I''d clear that up for ya.
Reply to this comment
by mattcat25 June 11, 2008 2:26 PM PDT
George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, and the Rubber Stamp Republican Congress have had 8-12 years to promote their Conservative Agenda, Morality and Ethics on the Government of the United States.

The results are now factual history. The Corrupt Conservative Agenda has been detrimental to the People of the United States. There are 35 counts of Impeachable Offenses filed in the US House of Representatives against President Bush. John McCain would be a cover and clean-up administration to shield the many crimes of the Republicans during the Bush years.

The time has come for Americans to hold their government accountable.
Reply to this comment
by bradw2k-2009 June 11, 2008 2:44 PM PDT
The most important item mentioned in this article is that Obama wants to raise corporate taxes from 15% to 25%. That''s an economic bomb that will hurt us all.
Reply to this comment
by bradw2k-2009 June 11, 2008 2:46 PM PDT
The most important item mentioned in this article is that Obama wants to raise corporate taxes from 15% to 25%. That''s an economic bomb that will hurt everyone.
Reply to this comment
by bradw2k-2009 June 11, 2008 2:47 PM PDT
The most important item mentioned in this article is that Obama wants to raise corporate taxes from 15% to 25%. That''s an economic bomb that will hurt everyone.
Reply to this comment
by bradw2k-2009 June 11, 2008 2:48 PM PDT
The most important item mentioned in this article is that Obama wants to raise corporate taxes from 15% to 25%. That''s an economic bomb that will hurt everyone.
Reply to this comment
by bradw2k-2009 June 11, 2008 2:49 PM PDT
The most important item mentioned in this article is that Obama wants to raise corporate taxes from 15% to 25%. That''s an economic bomb that will hurt everyone.
Reply to this comment
by bradw2k-2009 June 11, 2008 2:51 PM PDT
It''s preposterous to say that the candidates are similar on taxes. Obama wants to raise capital gains from 15% to 25%, McCain wants to lower corporate from 35% to 25%. I know will which will help and which will hurt *everyone* during a recession.
Reply to this comment
by bradw2k-2009 June 11, 2008 2:52 PM PDT
It''s preposterous to say that the candidates are similar on taxes. Obama wants to raise capital gains from 15% to 25%, McCain wants to lower corporate from 35% to 25%. The only way to have a strong economy is to cut government spending and taxation. McCain is not good, but Obama is definitely worse.
Reply to this comment
by bradw2k-2009 June 11, 2008 3:02 PM PDT
It''s preposterous to say that the candidates are similar on taxes. Obama wants to raise capital gains from 15% to 25%, McCain wants to lower corporate from 35% to 25%. The only way to have a strong economy is to cut government spending and taxation. McCain is not good, but Obama is definitely worse.
Reply to this comment
by bradw2k-2009 June 11, 2008 3:03 PM PDT
It''s preposterous to say that the candidates are similar on taxes. Obama wants to raise capital gains from 15% to 25%, McCain wants to lower corporate from 35% to 25%. The only way to have a strong economy is to cut government spending and taxation. McCain is not good, but Obama is definitely worse and will deepen the recession.
Reply to this comment
by crater7 June 11, 2008 3:07 PM PDT
Just thought I''d clear that up for ya. gocubs58;


SO, OBAMA VOTED FOR A BILL THAT PROVIDED BILLIONS OF DIRECT SUBSIDIES FOR BIG COMPANYS LIKE EXON MOBILE. AND FOR A BILL THAT ENCORUAGE THE USE OF ETHANOL, WHICH IS QUESTIONED BY MANY SCIENTIST, ON IT''S ADVERSE BENEFITS ON THE ENVIRONMENT. THE USE OF ETHANOL HAVE INCREASED PRICES ON EVERYTHING FROM GAS,FEED FOR LIVE STOCK, AND THE PRICE OF ALMOST EVERY FOOD ITEM CONSUMED BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

WE ARE GLAD YOU CLEARED THAT UP FOR US ALL.

GOD "BLESS" AMERICA. NOT "G D" AMERICA.
Reply to this comment
by bradw2k-2009 June 11, 2008 3:16 PM PDT
It''s preposterous to say that the candidates are similar on taxes. Obama wants to raise capital gains from 15% to 25%, McCain wants to lower corporate from 35% to 25%. The only way to have a strong economy is to cut government spending and taxation. McCain is not good, but Obama is definitely worse and will deepen the recession.
Reply to this comment
by bradw2k-2009 June 11, 2008 3:17 PM PDT
It''s preposterous to say that the candidates are similar on taxes. Obama wants to raise capital gains from 15% to 25%, McCain wants to lower corporate from 35% to 25%. The only way to have a strong economy is to cut government spending and taxation. McCain is not good, but Obama is definitely worse and will deepen the recession.
Reply to this comment
by realpatriot1 June 11, 2008 3:17 PM PDT
bradw2k,

Either you aren''t reading very carefully or you don''t understand the difference between the corporate tax rate and the capital gains tax rate.

I don''t see where the corporate rate is even mentioned in the article. It''s charged against corporate taxable income. The cap gains rate has to do with investments, not commercial activity.

Obama isn''t raising it from 15 to 5%, he''s raising it from 20 to 25%(it''s aready going up to 20%). 401(k)s are exempt, so this is generally not an issue for middle class investors or pension funds.

While Obama''s proposed middle class tax cut does not appear toprecisely spell out what level of income is considered middle class, it''s clear that it is a tax cut proposal for most people and will put cash in people''s pockets. Coupled with his proposals to exempt retirees making less than $50,000 and to exempt estate taxes, he clearly is proposing more tax cuts than McCain for individuals(as opposed to Corporate lobbyists).

McCain is out and out lying to say that Obama''s plans would increase taxes for "all Americans".

McCain was for the expiration of the Bush tax cuts before he was against them. Why is Obama a tax raiser to support what McCain flip-flopped on but McCain is allegedly not?
Reply to this comment
by bradw2k-2009 June 11, 2008 3:19 PM PDT
It''s preposterous to say that the candidates are similar on taxes. Obama wants to raise capital gains from 15% to 25%, McCain wants to lower corporate from 35% to 25%. The only way to have a strong economy is to cut government spending and taxation. McCain is not good, but Obama is definitely worse and will deepen the recession.
Reply to this comment
by realpatriot1 June 11, 2008 3:28 PM PDT
The real question for McCain is how does he intend to retain the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, maintain taxes where they are for the middle class(none of his proposals help ordinary people), keep the war going full tilt, stimulate the economy, and balance the budget.

Obama has pledged to abide by the PAYGO rules; as fas as I know McCain has not made a similar pledge.

Obama''s proposals for increased spending to stimulate the economy and move toward alternative energy
are more than paid for by his plans to draw down in Iraq.

McCain''s proposals are not paid for. Either he won''t deliver or he''ll have to run up the deficit until the economy collapses.
Reply to this comment
by realpatriot1 June 11, 2008 3:36 PM PDT
bradw2k,

I stand corrected regarding McCain wanting to cut the corporate rate from 35 to 25, I didn''t see that the first time I read through.
Reply to this comment
by ixoye_02 June 11, 2008 3:59 PM PDT
As the new story reveals, McCain''s tax policies would be more of the same. Why would anyone expect McCain and Bush to be far from each other with respect to tax policy? I''m tired of the same old tired arguments proposed by the republican''ts. For a party that hates government, the republicans have longs ignored the needs of the poor and working-class people. I was a republican for a long time and I liked the party''s position of everyone has to be responsible for his/her own destiny. But when republicans made the corporations a "person" and gave the corporations all sorts of tax breaks and free money, that was the straw that broke my camel''s back. And I saw that the republicans were more about about "trickle-down" prosperity, religious extremism, limited government, and corporate rights and benefits and nothing for the average working American, except perhaps the vague feeling of national security. But as one of the founding fathers remarked, "We get the government we deserve". And until the stupid working-class folks realize that they are voting against their own economic interests when they vote republican, then we are doomed to have presidents like "Dumb" and "Dumber", i.e., the Bush dynasty. But I guess most of these people are satisfied with their $600 or $1200 checks...I hope you can buy gas until the end of the year for that amount of money!!!!
Reply to this comment
by standlee5 June 11, 2008 4:04 PM PDT
NOthing new here. Both are business as usual. McCain''s better because he would keep taxes low and encourage DECREASING the size of govt. whereas Obama will grow the govt.
Reply to this comment
by cosmotopper June 11, 2008 4:10 PM PDT
Allowing the tax cuts to expire on schedule is not raising taxes. FYI, the expiration of the tax cuts is one of the assumptions on which budget policy is being set. Those who want to make them permanent are basically saying we are going to continue to take cash advances on the National Credit Card in order to fund government.

And by the way, the projected deficit for 2009 is $409-billion, and I wonder if anyone believes it''s going to be less than that in 2010? We have to let the tax cuts expire, and we have to cut government spending, and we have to redeploy our forces in the Middle East so we can bring that $12-billion a month Iraq line-item down. If we don''t, it''s a ***-shoot as to whether the economy will completely collapse during the next President''s term.
Reply to this comment
by jack3213 June 11, 2008 4:52 PM PDT
The thing about competition for the long haul is that every word is taken as literal, there is reading between the lines, and there is assumptions made and rumours spread based on things people want to hear, not what is meant. YOU have to careful what you hear and what you read- If you are the type that takes things at ''''''''face value'''''''' than you will have real problems. McCain is correct, but you have to understand the depth of his mind, and the experiance behind it. Obama is NOT experianced, so it is as if he keeps touching the hot stove and finding it hot, when he should have learned more- for this is the BIG LEAGUE- He will LOSE in a very big, big way.


Reply to this comment
by jazzer9 June 11, 2008 10:20 PM PDT
REMEMBER-Write Hillary''s name in on the ballot.
Reply to this comment
by mikeking1949 June 11, 2008 11:20 PM PDT
The Republican oriented comments in this blog and the article ignore the established facts. That''s why I am no longer a Republican.

SO Ya''ll lets talk Straight Talk Express for real. Prove me wrong.

FIRST - When America was a true economic powerhouse, the Corporate Tax Rate was 48%. The dollar was strong, we had a middle class, built highways, bridges and could buy houses for less than a cheap car costs today.

SECOND - The only thing that has ever "trickled down" from Reagan Republican Economics has been earning power, our infrastructure, quality of life and more debt.

NATIONAL DEBT Brought to us almost exclusively by voodoo economics. Those with wealth get tax cuts and those without wealth pay the bill with no benefits. Interest is killing the social budget. Republicans - our grandchildren will remember you.

DOLLAR VALUE - nuff said

PENSION PLANS - Do really think the big corporations will pay? Chapter 11, poof! With no safety net for the workers who traded their lives in a legal contract.

NATURAL RESOURCE LEASES - What''s the price for the Oil being taken from federally owned land? ... a gallon of gas produced on that cost base would be $.50-$.75 (cents) Selling entrusted assets for fractional value is a felony for a trustee, especially one with ties to the buyers.

So prove me wrong or show me the winners, show us all the winners - so we all know who they are ... on sight.

Explain you thinking to your teenager, who will pay for our stupidity.

Reply to this comment
by eroosevelt08 June 12, 2008 2:50 AM PDT
I am still a Hillary Clinton supporter.

When I look at John McCain, I see a man who will keep in place all the huge tax cuts for the super rich and do nothing to alleviate the burdens of low and middle class Americans.

John McCain will keep the Patriot Act intact and that Act is unconstitutional because it permits any of us U.S. Citizens to be plucked off the street without probable cause and be held without knowing what the charges against us are.

Senator Obama, who was a constitutional law professor, understands constitutional law better than Senator McCain. I believe that Senator Obama would restore civil liberties to the people of this country.

As between Senator Obama and Senator McCain, I believe Senator Obama is the least lousy solution. Sometimes in politics, that is the best you can get.
Reply to this comment
by taddles3 June 12, 2008 4:24 PM PDT
"It''''s preposterous to say that the candidates are similar on taxes. Obama wants to raise capital gains from 15% to 25%

Posted by bradw2k at 03:19 PM : Jun 11, 2008"

From factcheck.org:
"The fact is that Obama''s proposal exempts all making under $250,000 a year from paying any increase in the capital gains rate, according to campaign economic adviser Austan Goolsbee. "

Obama will be raising the capital gains tax rate on those making over 4250K per year to the same rate it was under the Clinton administration, namely %28 percent. McCain will not be changing the capital gains taxes so those making over $250K a year will be paying only 15%.

So, brad, obviously you must be in the $250K+ per year bracket since you are for the McCain "don''t tax the rich" policy.
Reply to this comment
by taddles3 June 12, 2008 4:25 PM PDT
"whereas Obama will grow the govt.

Posted by standlee5 at 04:04 PM : Jun 11, 2008"


How so? You mind justifying that statement?
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