Secretary of State Clinton's Global Mission
After the car bomb was found in Times Square, we wanted to ask the secretary of state about the administration's efforts against terrorism in Pakistan and Afghanistan. "60 Minutes" correspondent Scott Pelley spoke with Secretary Clinton at the State Department on Friday.
It was the last in a series of interviews that we've done with her over the last six months. During that time, we've been traveling with Mrs. Clinton to see how this surprising choice for secretary of state is engaging the world. We didn't expect such a far flung story would begin with questions about events in the heart of Manhattan.
Full Segment: Secretary of State Hillary Clinton
Web Extra: Pakistan and Terror In The U.S.
Web Extra: Terror and Citizenship
Web Extra: Hillary's Future
Web Extra: Inside Secretary Clinton's Office
Web Extra: Critiquing Secretary Clinton
Web Extra: Secretary Clinton's Goals and Fears
Web Extra: Chelsea's Wedding
"Is the Times Square bomber connected to a Pakistani-based terrorist group?" Pelley asked.
"There are connections. Exactly what they are, how deep they are, how long they've lasted, whether this was an operation encouraged or directed, those are questions that are still in the process of being sorted out," Secretary Clinton replied.
The most likely connection, she said, is to a group called the Pakistani Taliban.
"With the bomb in Times Square, I wonder what your message is to the Pakistani government?" Pelley asked.
"It's very clear. This is a threat that we share, we have a common enemy. There is no time to waste in going after that common enemy as hard and fast as we can and we cannot tolerate having people encouraged, directed, trained and sent from Pakistan to attack us," she replied.
Clinton was in Pakistan, ironically, at the same time the alleged Times Square bomber was being trained there. On her trip last October, away from the cameras, she said something remarkable about the Pakistani government, something she repeated to us.
"I'm not saying that they're at the highest levels but I believe that somewhere in this government are people who know where Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda is, where Mullah Omar and the leadership of the Afghan Taliban is and we expect more cooperation to help us bring to justice, capture or kill, those who attacked us on 9/11," Clinton said.
"But we're not getting that cooperation," Pelley remarked.
"Well, we are," Clinton replied.
"The question is why is this administration not pressuring Pakistan to give up Osama bin Laden [or] his deputy Ayman al Zawahiri…," Pelley asked.
"I have to stand up for the efforts the Pakistani government is taking. They have done a very significant move toward going after the terrorists within their own country," Clinton replied.
Web Extra: Pakistan and Terror In The U.S.
"Even in light of the Times Square bomber, you are comfortable with the cooperation you are getting from the Pakistani government?" Pelley asked.
"Well, now, I didn't say that. I've said we've gotten more cooperation and it's been a real sea change in the commitment we've seen from the Pakistani government. We want more; we expect more. We've made it very clear that, if, heaven forbid, that an attack like this, if we can trace back to Pakistan, were to have been successful, there would be very severe consequences," Clinton said.
Asked what she meant exactly, Clinton said, "I think I'll let that speak for itself."
"Developments to come," Pelley remarked.
"Right," she replied.
We met with Hillary Rodham Clinton at the State Department. If history had been President Obama's guide, he wouldn't have chosen her.
Modern secretaries of state are almost never politicians. And not since Lincoln has a president picked a fierce rival for the top post in his cabinet. In another of our interviews, we were surprised when she told us what she thought when she heard President Obama was going to offer the job.
"Just ridiculous. I absolutely did not believe it," she recalled. "Not in a million years. And when he raised it I said, 'Well, there are so many other people you should consider. I really don't think I wanna do that. I'm not interested in doing it.'"
Asked if she declined, Clinton said, "I didn't want him even to ask me. I wanted to avoid the 'being asked' part because I really, I didn't think it was the right fit. I wasn't ready to try something new. I wanted to get back to what I was already doing. But he turned out to be very persuasive."
Now she's gone from "not interested" to an all-consuming global campaign in a time when the U.S. is the biggest debtor in the world, fighting two wars, and accused of abandoning its ideals to the struggle with terrorism.
"We had to tee up a lot. There was just so much when I walked in this door. There was not only these really high expectations about the president and, to some extent, myself about what that meant, but you just can't say, 'Okay, we're here. Everybody, okay, change what you've been doing. Immediately adopt a new positive view toward us.' It takes a lot of hard work to make that real," she explained.
Right away, she found that America is in a crisis of credibility. "All of a sudden you've got countries who are explicitly saying to me, in private, 'Well, look, you know, we always looked to you because you had this great economy and now, look, you're in the ditch. And you've dragged other people into the ditch,'" Clinton said.
"Larry Summers, the president's economic advisor, asked this question: 'How long can the world's biggest borrower remain the world's greatest power?' Is America in decline?" Pelley remarked.
"No. We're not. But it's a question that has to be answered. And I happen to believe it's one of the critical challenges before us. Our nation has to be strong fiscally at home in order for us to be strong abroad," Clinton said.
Nowhere is her work abroad harder than the place where we met Secretary Clinton last November.
It's a country that doesn't exist on any map - the land that policy insiders call "AfPak," the cradle of terrorism that lies along the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Clinton came to bless the inauguration of Afghan President Hamid Karzai, even though Karzai was seen by many to have stolen the election through vote fraud.
"You're going to leave here now and go see President Karzai. How frank are you going to be what are you going to tell him?" Pelley asked Clinton at the US Embassy in Kabul, shortly before she left for an evening meeting with the Afghan president.
"We will have a very frank conversation because I think it is in everyone's interest to make sure there are no misunderstandings, no misconceptions, about what we hope to see and what we expect from his second term," Clinton said.
The Obama administration has calculated that Karzai is the best option among bad alternatives. Getting American troops out will depend on pragmatism and compromise, exactly the skills of a politician like Clinton. She played both good cop and bad cop, demanding reform behind closed doors, during a ninety minute meeting with Karzai, then saying what she had to publicly.
That was during a meeting and reception hosted by Clinton for foreign ministers attending the Afghan inauguration. "President Karzai has won reelection. It was a legitimate election outcome," she said.
"You just made a point of using the word, 'legitimate,'" Pelley pointed out.
"And I very much mean it. And now it's up to him to demonstrate what he can do with that," Clinton said.
Many back in Washington have more foreign policy experience than Clinton but she doesn't let anyone work harder. The Afghan trip was typically brutal. She spent 27 hours on the ground, had countless meetings, interviews and speeches. And then, on departure, she stopped to see the troops.
This is exactly what the president got in return for swallowing the bitterness of the campaign and reaching out to Clinton. She's the only person in American politics with global star power close to his own. She can pack a room anywhere. A few secretaries of state have been famous; none has been a first name celebrity like Hillary.
"Long way home," Pelley remarked, as the Secretary prepared to board her airplane.
"Long way home," Clinton agreed. "But you know, at the end of a good day you feel like it's worth going home and feeling positive about where we are in the world."
In 16 months, she's flown the equivalent of almost 12 times around the world, 54 countries so far. Her plane goes by the call sign, "SAM," for special air mission. At night, leaving Kabul, the windows were shaded to make SAM less of a target. Secure communications are wedged in. And across the aisle is the "burn bag" stuffed with national secrets, now reclassified trash.
To see Clinton, today, selling Obama's foreign policy, you forget that two years ago they were near each other's throats.
"We were campaigning hard against each other. I've lost track of how many debates we had where we stood within inches of each other and hammered each other. But that's a campaign. So yes, I ran hard against him. He ran hard against me. He won. I lost. And then he asked me to work him on behalf of our country," Clinton said.
"And you've repaired all of that?" Pelley asked.
"Oh, of course. Yes. And I mean we have a great relationship," Clinton said.
But the Obama-Clinton duo has discovered the limits of celebrity: other world leaders are testing this team; personal diplomacy has not gotten them the results they wanted from Afghanistan; relations with Israel are the worst in decades.
Their biggest foreign policy success came just last month with Russia and a treaty to reduce nuclear arsenals.
At the State Department, Secretary Clinton is credited with raising budgets and morale. She let ours be the first television cameras inside her office which is filled with mementos of courageous women, including Eleanor Roosevelt, who she says is one of her favorites.
She's carved out women's rights as her own foreign policy priority. Maybe that's why she accepted this office after losing the one she really wanted. From here she still can reach places where women suffer. She went to the Democratic Republic of Congo where a quarter of a million women have been raped in the war.
Web Extra: Inside Secretary Clinton's Office:
And during that visit last summer she got this translated question from a man.
"What does Mr. Clinton think through the mouth of Mrs. Clinton?" the man asked, with the help of a translator.
"You want me to tell you what my husband thinks? My husband is not the secretary of state. I am. You ask my opinion, I will tell you my opinion. I'm not going to be channeling my husband," Clinton replied.
"You felt it was expressed from a viewpoint of gender bigotry so to speak?" Pelley asked about the exchange.
"That's the way I heard it. Yes. And since I believe strongly that one of the great moral, economic, political and cultural challenges and unfinished business of the 21st century are the rights and aspirations of women and girls. I am going to stand up for that principle," Clinton said.
"We must declare with one voice that women's progress is human progress, and human progress is women's progress once and for all," Clinton said at the United Nations.
We were with her at the U.N. in March for that speech when we ran into Madeleine Albright who became the first woman secretary of state under Bill Clinton.
Asked what she told Clinton, Albright said, "About being secretary of state? That it was the best job in the world."
"She did say that," Clinton recalled.
Asked if she agrees with that statement at this point, Clinton said, "Well, it's an extraordinary job."
'You didn't say best," Pelley pointed out.
It's not the job she wanted but it is the best of her career.
Whatever the title, "Clinton" now means Hillary, not Bill, who stands in her shadow.
Walking into the West Wing, now carrying only the foreign policy portfolio, her popularity is higher than her boss's. Obama's approval rating is 51 percent, she's at 77 percent. But continued success may very well depend on the plans of terrorists both overseas and here at home.
"Nobody wants to see something tragic happen again. But we know that every single day the bad guys are out there and they want to come after us," Clinton said.
"This is becoming a trend. People used to ask why they hadn't attacked us in the United States since 9/11. The answer is now, 'They are.' And they're doing it every couple of months. And I wonder if there's anything about U.S. foreign policy that needs to change in your estimation to put more pressure on these terrorist groups where they live, like in Pakistan?" Pelley asked.
"Well, we are doing that. And we're increasing it. We're expecting more from it. This is a global threat. We have probably the best police work in the world. But we are also the biggest target. And therefore, we just have to be better than everybody else," she replied.
Produced by Henry Schuster