Taking Liberties
October 28, 2009 7:50 PM

N.J. Court Says Americans Have No Right To Buy Handguns

(AP Photo/Judi Bottoni)
A New Jersey appeals court has concluded that Americans have no Second Amendment right to buy a handgun.

In a case decided last week, the superior court upheld a state law saying that nobody may possess "any handgun" without obtaining law enforcement approval and permission in advance.

That outcome might seem like something of a surprise, especially after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled last year in the D.C. v. Heller case that the Second Amendment guarantees "the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation."

But New Jersey Appellate Division Judge Stephen Skillman wrote on behalf of a unanimous three-judge panel that Heller "has no impact upon the constitutionality of" the state law.

That's because, Skillman said, the Supreme Court did not strike down the District of Columbia's de facto handgun ban but instead simply ordered the city to issue a permit. In other words, while Americans may have the right in general to possess arms, the exact contours of that right have not been mapped, especially as the Second Amendment applies to state laws. (The court's majority opinion last year said: "We therefore assume that petitioners' issuance of a license will satisfy respondent's prayer for relief and do not address the licensing requirement.")

Look for the Supreme Court to revisit this question in a few months when it hears a case called McDonald v. Chicago. It's a constitutional challenge to Chicago's restrictive gun laws, which prohibit anyone from possessing firearms -- even in their homes -- "unless such person is the holder of a valid registration certificate for such firearm."

New Jersey's laws are similar. They say: "No person shall sell, give, transfer, assign or otherwise dispose of, nor receive, purchase, or otherwise acquire a handgun unless the purchaser, assignee, donee, receiver or holder... has first secured a permit to purchase a handgun as provided by this section."

Another section dealing with licensing says: "No person of good character and good repute in the community in which he lives, and who is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in this section or other sections of this chapter, shall be denied a permit to purchase a handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card, except as hereinafter set forth." Some of the exceptions involve criminal records, for instance.

What prompted the current lawsuit was a request for a handgun purchase permit that Anthony Dubov submitted to the East Windsor Chief of Police. The police chief denied Dubov's request without giving any reason, in what the appeals court later ruled was a violation of state law. The current East Windsor police chief is William Spain.

Oddly, the trial judge upheld that denial, without asking the police chief to testify to explain himself (another violation of state law) and after taking the unusual step of contacting Dubov's previous employers to ask about his background.

Dubov's attorney, Michael Nieschmidt, argued that the state licensing scheme was unconstitutionally vague and therefore violated the Second Amendment.

Skillman concluded that while the Second Amendment doesn't apply, state law and precedent nevertheless required that Dubov receive more due process than he did. The appeals court wrote: "Accordingly, the trial court's affirmance of the police chief's denial of appellant's application for a firearms purchase permit is reversed, and the case is remanded for an evidentiary hearing in conformity with this opinion."

Declan McCullagh is a correspondent for CBSNews.com. He can be reached at declan@cbsnews.com and is on Twitter as declanm. You can bookmark the Taking Liberties site here, or subscribe to the RSS feed.
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by America_First November 11, 2009 11:46 AM EST
A flintlock musket, if you have a license for it. Not much more. That's what the constitution guarantees. Any firearm designed after 1788 was never considered by our founding fathers.

You think it guarantees more than that? Rocket-Propelled Grenades? Claymore mines? WP rounds? 81mm mortars? Semi-automatic handguns with 20 round magazines? Yeah, right.

Of course, most of the cowards at the NRA couldn't maintain and operate an 18th century flintlock if they had to. But maybe then they might actually read some history, rather than making it up.
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by ygtbsm November 15, 2009 2:44 PM EST
That is about the most ridiculous logic I've ever heard. Why don't you apply it across the board to every aspect of our society then, like abortions (which I'm sure wasn't considered in 1788), freedom of religion (I'm sure they weren't too concerned with Muslim back then, or Wikans for that matter), freedom of speech (I'm sure didn't factor in the internet or TV in 1788 so maybe it shouldn't apply there either).
You need to pull your head out of the sand and do some critical thinking instead of pulling emotional BS out of the air to argue your point.
If you don't think tyranny can ever rise again, you need to only look at the rise of corruption in our government to see that the intent of our founding father's was to keep the people's right to protect themselves against the government, intact.
I am a member of the NRA, have a Master's in Strategic Studies and understand history. It's people with such a shallow argument like yours that endanger this country.
America first? How naive.
by PhucObama November 7, 2009 2:07 PM EST
This is the reason I became a member of the NRA...because of Liberal Idiots that think they know what's best for everyone else. Support the NRA and join...

www.nra.org
Reply to this comment
by njcountyofficer November 3, 2009 3:43 PM EST
WRosencratz,

You are so far off knowing police work it's laughable. As a retired LEO the fact is most of our "crime fighting" is after the crime has been committed, we push paperwork. To actually do what you said, "have the citizen call the cops", we would have to place an officer between every 5 houses on a city block to actually protect citizens from crime. It's usually luck and just being in the right place at the right time to actually see a crime in progress.

I strongly suggest you do your homework on the subject before you open your mouth and sound like a total fool.
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by MassenaNick November 3, 2009 1:24 AM EST
I can't believe that someone actually believes that banning all guns will make the our society safer and that the police will actually be able to "protect" them from crime. In countries such as Great Britain, Germany, Mexico(remember this one, we'll come back to it) and Japan to name a few have strict gun laws, the Japanese Olympic shooting team can't even practice in their own country, and these countries also have an increase in crime, not just petty crime but syndicate crime. Let's go back to Mexico who as we know has increased crime and it has strict gun laws, it is essentially a country where only the outlaws have guns and the police are useless or criminal.

No offense to our Police Departments and all and I used to walk the beat, but they are under-funded and overwhelmed now; the increase of crime would probably push some of the goods ones out and well some of the bad apples would rise to the surface, while this seems like an extremist view it is also based on historical evidence so while some may believe that we "creepy" gun advocates are barbarians and we should all hand over our guns and sing *** By Ya while holding hands I prefer the old saying that "you can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead, fingers."
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by Virgil-1 November 2, 2009 10:24 AM EST
Another communist court telling Americans what they can and cannot do!
This kind of thinking needs to be stopped at all cost.
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by RD45ACP November 2, 2009 9:45 AM EST
What WRosencratz and all liberals smuggle into the debate, hoping that we do not realize their genuine intentions, is that all gun control is predicated on the state holding a monopoly of force. Gun controller advocates pretend to be nice people who love peace yet, when push comes to shove, they are more than OK with armed men forcibly disarming those with whom liberals disagree and killing all who resist. Liberalism is a blood soaked ideology that openly advocates the murder of those who differ from their views and those that get in the way of their will to power. (This is why liberals quote the murderer Mao and wear T-shirts celebrating the murderer Chi. Birds of a feather flock together!) I quit thinking of gun controllers as nice people a long time ago. Their ideology has murdered upwards of 100 million people in the 20th century alone. There is nothing nice or peace affirming about that. A very wise man once told me this about the American Left: ?The issues are never the issue, the issue is always power.?
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by Rob459 November 1, 2009 11:07 PM EST
WRosencratz, you seriously need to take a history lesson. The right to keep and bear arms was one of the most highly prized rights by FORMER slaves, one of the first violated by the KKK and their ilk (making African Americans and other minorities easier to victimize), and one of the rights most explicitly intended to be protected by the post-civil war amendments (particularly the 14th Amendment) and laws (the Freedmen's Bureau Act and the Civil Rights Act) meant specifically to protect the rights of freedmen of color, and to give them the power to protect themselves and their own rights. Read a book sometime, instead of just swallowing political rhetoric. Start with Akhil Reed Amar's "The Bill of Rights". As one of the most prominent liberal constitutional law scholars in the country (law professor at Yale), he should be a credible source. Or maybe the Federalist Papers (by, with two others, James Madison). I guess the author of the Bill of Rights himself should have a decent perspective on what he himself meant. He made it very explicitly clear that the government had no legal power under the Constitution whatsoever, even ignoring the 2nd Amendment, to disarm the individual citizens of the US.

You're right, we're throwbacks, but to the time immediately AFTER the END of slavery, when all the rights in the US Constitution were held up to be inviolate by anyone, when we passed the 14th Amendment to stop state and local governments from violating the rights of citizens, including, explicitly, the right to arms, in the name of racism, and before "progressive" politicians and judges started eroding away those rights in order to institute the racist reincarnation of virtual slavery that dominated the 20th Century and is still partially with us today. I'd rather be such a throwback than a modern "progressive" who's too uneducated to even know that the laws they defend have as their entire and only legal basis a court decision that had as it's only purpose to set free a group of white supremacists who had committed a mass-murder of African Americans, having disarmed them first (US v. Cruickshank). Thankfully, the Supreme Court is going to finally overturn that travesty of justice this session, and idiots such as Skillman will be forced to respect the rights our Founding Fathers intended to remain untouched.
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by Rob459 November 1, 2009 12:53 PM EST
This is a perfect example of a racist law that is now being abused even further to advanceyhe current anti-gun agenda. These "permission" laws were originally enacted specifically so that minorities could selectively be denied access to weapons with which to defend themselves aginst racist attacks, without having to include racist language, that could be challenged in court, in the written law. Show up in the sheriff's office white, no problem, here's your gun; show up not white, sorry - denied. At least the Southern states had the integrity to admit their laws were intended for such purposes, and repealed them. The Northern states have instead simply taken advantage of the race-neutral language that was necessary to keep theselaws on the books to treat everyone without money or political connections as a second-class citizen.
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by OIF_to_USC November 1, 2009 12:07 AM EDT
I guess Judge Skillman, President Obama and Attorney General Holderman graduated from the same Harvard Law School that says that the U.S. Constitution isn't really supposed to be taken seriously, and that it doesn?t really mean what it says, that it is just a guideline that sometimes gets in the way. Didn't those dingy idiots take the same oath to protect and defend the Constitution that some of us took when we joined the armed forces? You remember, the one where the very first sentence was the following; ?I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.? Imagine that. Every president, senator, representative, agency head, judge, attorney, soldier, sailor, Marine and airman takes pretty much the same oath, and yet, it has an entirely different meaning to different people. You would think that if anybody could get it right, it would be a judge, but they are the biggest abusers of the Constitution and they hold the greatest contempt for our Founding Fathers. No wonder law abiding citizens were given the right to keep and bear arms.
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by OIF_to_USC October 31, 2009 11:24 PM EDT
So, while smoking crack, New Jersey Appellate Division Judge Stephen Skillman and his dippy accomplices said that the 2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees an individual the right to keep bear arms, further clarified by the recent Heller v. DC decision, does not affect people in New Jersey? Do these idiots actually ? collect a salary ? for their stupid decisions? Perhaps they should not.
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by WRosencratz October 31, 2009 9:21 PM EDT
Guns are dangerous and have every right to be regulated if not banned outright.

People who believe excessively in so-called second amendment "rights" tend to give me the creeps. They are a throwback to less enlightened generations: back when slavery was legal, gays were locked in the closet, Latinos and other minorities lived in fear of being deported (or interned in concentration camps) and women were held bondage in the kitchen.

This is a new, enlightened era and I fear guns may have long outlived their usefulness.

If you want to deter crime, you call the Police. That's what they are there for. This isn't the wild west where we wave guns in people's faces and threaten them because they are "criminals."

The sooner we can ban all handguns, the better we can all sleep.
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by JimInHouston October 31, 2009 11:35 PM EDT
Yep, the moment we ban handguns is the moment that the criminals will all line up to turn theirs in. Utopia will be here and we can sleep easy for sure!
by MadAir007 November 1, 2009 10:58 AM EST
WRosencratz,

Unfortunately for American's today, we are at the mercy of simple minded liberals who have absolutely no concept of what the word "Freedom" means. As ex-military I know first hand what it means to defend our rights as our dearest doctrine, the Constitution of the United States means. Your freedom to voice your opinion came at the risk of other brave men and women who had the guts to stand up and defend your freedom and it came with a very steep price--their blood and lives. So go ahead and continue to throw your reteric around and assume we all live in la-la land that is only full of fun loving people that all hold hands and love each other, with no concept that the true fact is we live in a world where evil does exist. Evil comes in many shapes, colors, creeds and beliefs. You may not be aware, but we have bad people all around us. The USA has one of the largest populations of prisoners because they did something to deserve being locked up. I'll even bet you've got crime in the town you live in too. Bad people exist everywhere in the world. There's no stereotype. Evil even sits at our highest, most trusted positions within our own legal system and government. If you actually trust what politicians say, then watch them carefully to what they DO, not say. The majority of them have one interest and that's more power and personal wealth. Greed is the root of all evil and our leaders are not exempt fom it.

With laws that restrict our freedoms, small special interest groups gain more power. If our current administration had their way, all Americans would be stripped of our rights, not just the 2nd Amendment. Every amendment, including the 1st Amendment (YOUR RIGHT FOR FREEDOM OF SPEACH) can also be taken away. Take away one, then another and soon you will also be a prisoner of the state, by simply allowing greedy people more authority, you will eventually give up your own.

As far as calling the police to protect you, let me ask you, if you had an intruder breaking into your home and threatning you or your family, by holding you at gunpoint or a knife or even a screwdriver, do you honestly believe the police are going to be in your home waiting for bad guys, or will the neighbors have to call the police after the fact that you've been either assaulted, robbed or killed to report the incident after the fact. Is that really the protection you wish upon yourself and fellow Americans?

Remember, bad people don't follow the rules. They don't care about what's right because they're only interest is for their personal gain without considering the consequences to what might happen to them if they get caught. Professional criminals make a living out of victimizing others. No cop in the world is going to be at the scene of every crime. WAKE UP!

So go back to your enlightened era and continue smoking your dope because you have absolutely no concept of reality.

If you were my next door neighbor, I would put up a sign in my front yard stating that my next door neigbor's home is unprotected because he wants all guns banned. I also promise I will not use my guns to protect my neighbor and you are welcome to go into their home anytime you wish and do whatever you want in their home!
by YeOldFireChief November 1, 2009 12:35 PM EST
I'm surprised that a gentleman with the last name of Rosencratz wouldn't be a little more "enlightened? to the historical results of governments disarming their electorate.
Let's first take the case of the Nazi party in Germany in 1938. The first step the Nazi's took in subjugating the Jewish population (not to mention everyone else in Germany at the time) was to ban the private ownership of firearms. With the means to effectively defend themselves removed, it was simple for the Nazi's to round up the Jewish population and march them to their deaths in the showers at Auschwitz, and other death camps. You think the Jews living in Germany at the time thought; "Gee, I feel so much safer now," as they were marched at bayonet point into railroad boxcars? Do you think they were thinking; "Gee, you know, when other civilizations were disarmed and subjugated in ancient times, things usually resulted in the death of thousands if not millions of people, but this time I'm sure it will be different"
Other notable "enlightened" ones include Stalin and leaders of the Communist party when they disarmed the civilian population of the USSR.
Pinochet, when he disarmed the population of Chili. That worked out well.
And even the British, when following the uprising in Boston Commons, they march on arms stores of New England to disarm the civilian population. You think this was done for their safety?
Many have thought like you in the past who believe that in this new "Enlightened age" that the need and ability to protect one's self was a thing of the past. Most died at the hands of their oppressors. Examples exist even in our own recent past. You think the American Indian (Native Americans) were overcome by words alone? They were systematically disarmed and forcibly moved from their homes on the heels of lies about peace and a better life if they just gave up their arms and "trusted" those in charge of government. Worked out pretty good they them also. Didn?t it?
I know its "fashionable" to profess the liberal "guns are bad" mantra. If you want to be unarmed, go right ahead. I'll use your body as a sandbag over which I will fire my military grade rifle when the time comes. Why do I say this? Because people are people and, enlightened or not, there is always someone who wants you to be under their boot. The framers of the Constitution understood this, even if you do not.
by OldFashioned1043 October 30, 2009 4:42 PM EDT
In the Heller case the US Supreme Court ruled that the 2nd Amendment is a individual right. The Court also ruled that the DC handgun ban was unconstitutional. The court stated that the ruling did not prohibit reasonable restrictions and gave as examples prohibiting firearms ownership by convicted felons and restricting machine guns. The problem is that the heller case pertained only to DC, therefor the courts' decision was applied only to DC. The argument about the 2nd Amendment applying to all states will be addressed in a case that is before the court now and will probably be heard early next year.
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by cylarz October 30, 2009 3:19 AM EDT
More wishful thinking from left-wingers who think that getting the government's permission beforehand to make a gun purchase is going to completely put the kibosh on gun-related crime. It's worked so well the first 30,000 tries, hasn't it? (The number of state, local, and federal gun laws on the books is in fact close to that number.) I mean, it's not like human nature would compel the violence-prone to forgo the permit, go outside the legal channels, and obtain a firearm by illegal means. Nah. Could never happen.
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by cylarz October 30, 2009 3:15 AM EDT
So, let me get this straight. The Second Amendment, far from being an unfettered individual right to buy, possess, and use firearms, is in fact simply a "collective" right, as per the "well -regulated militia" part. This was in fact the official position of the Clinton-era Justice Department.

So basically, what you're telling me here is that the Founding Fathers who wrote our Constitution back in 1787 - Madison, Franklin, Hamilton, Jay, Henry, et al...said to each other, "You know what, guys? We just fought this horrible, bloody, brutal war of attrition against an oppressive government-sponsored army which was wielding guns. And now we're writing this list of individual rights and promises that no government can infringe on - speech/assembly/religion, prohibit unreasonable search, no self-incrimination, feds are bound by the rules, states aren't - we need to put an Amendment smack in the middle of that list which guarantees the right of GOVERNMENT-SPONSORED combat troops to carry arms. Because somewhere down the line, some court might suggest that a militia raised to defend our territory - armed, trained, and funded by the government - some court might suggest that that militia has no right to take up arms in defense of our new nation, not even while staring down an invading army landing at Boston or New York Harbor. So let's put this 2nd Amendment in here just to clear up any confusion on that point. Let's also make sure that nobody is in any doubt on whether or not our new government does in fact, have the right to regulate the purchase, possession, and use of any firearms which might find their way into the hands of individual citizens."
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by --BJ-- October 30, 2009 2:15 AM EDT
I wonder "IF" the framers of the first amendment meant that a T.V. Crew could film, tape, edit, and summarize the words of what a person said and then broadcast it as being that person's opinion. Me thinks NOT !! If Freedom of Speech and Freedom of the Press have adjusted to progress, wouldn't it stand to reason that the same standards should apply to all the amendments...???
Yet, on the other hand that same interpretation does not apply to the type, style, size of firearm. Hmmm..??
One needs only to read the Constitution to realize that a firearm is the only object named as such for all to see, that it is a right.... Not something to be left up to a disgruntled local.
..BJ..
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by Woodpiggie1 October 29, 2009 11:44 PM EDT
Equating gun restrictions with violence prevention is loonacy. Half of Africa proves this on a daily basis with blood stained machetes. And if you want to Africanize America,gun bans can only expedite the process by increasing the pool of victims for the swarms of murderous, welfare raised crackhead thugs presently metastasizing throughout the US from the cities like Newark and Camden that they've already been reduced to third world conditions. To add insult to injury, the liberal social policies that brought us generations of welfare funded illegitimacy, all on the backs of overtaxed law abiding citizens, produced the violent drug crazed criminals now being used as a pretext to disarm us. Haven't blooby revolutions been srarted for lesser reasons than these?
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by October 29, 2009 11:20 PM EDT
What part of shall not be infringed do they not understand? Gees!
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by mecury69 November 6, 2009 10:20 AM EST
Amen brother.

The forefathers were far more intelligent and insightful than ANY present day judge or politician.

I'll trust the constitution more than an over thinking egomaniac.
by schmolf4 October 29, 2009 10:38 PM EDT
looks like the corruption that has plagued the Republic of New Jersey finally made it's way to it's top courts, what a shame!! when can we sell Jersey back to the English as I do feel they are trying to mimic them anyway and please make it quick.

What right will they revoke next??
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by chuckgcs October 29, 2009 10:29 PM EDT
Obviously the writers of our constitution must have been illiterates, because they made the glaring mistake of writing the words "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms...", instead of "...the right of the militia members to keep and bear arms...", or even "...the right of the militia to keep and bear arms..."

But not to worry, modern pundits are well aware of the framer's mistake in wording and are working diligently to correct the error.
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by mecury69 November 6, 2009 10:27 AM EST
Right on.

They also said, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." Yet, there continues to be a belief that America is a 'Christian' country. There it is on black and white, spelled out perfectly but STILL people hear and read what they want to.

Just like these judges. Frustrating.
by Wolf1944 October 29, 2009 10:09 PM EDT
New Jersey ranks 48th in guns deaths per 100,000 people. They may be doing something right.
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by miketoombs1 November 8, 2009 10:54 AM EST
IF it truly worked they would be 50th out of 50 states.
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