Crimesider
October 12, 2009 10:20 AM

Sweat Lodge Death Investigation Turns to Self-Help Guru James Arthur Ray

(JamesRay.com)
Photo: James Arthur Ray.

PRESCOTT, Ariz. (CBS/AP) Police have now turned their attention to television self-help guru James Arthur Ray in their investigation of an Arizona sweat lodge ceremony that left two dead and 19 hospitalized.

Yavapai County Sheriff Steve Waugh said Saturday that his detectives were focusing on the self-help expert and his staff as they try to determine if criminal negligence played a role in the tragic deaths at the Angel Valley Retreat Center in Sedona, Ariz., on Oct. 9.

The town is a desert vacation spot two hours north of Phoenix that is popular with those seeking meditation and spiritual health.

Waugh said Ray refused to speak with authorities and has since left the state.

"We will continue this investigation down every road that is possible to find out if there is culpability on anybody relative to the deaths of these individuals," Waugh said. He said it could be three to four weeks before they knew if criminal charges would be filed.

Ray's recent postings on his Twitter account said he was "shocked and saddened" by the tragedy.

"My deep heartfelt condolences to family and friends of those who lost their lives," he wrote. "I am spending the weekend in prayer and meditation for all involved in this difficult time; and I ask you to join me in doing the same."

Ray claims to help people achieve both spiritual and financial wealth. "The real key to creating the life of your dreams is achieving true Harmonic Wealth®," he says on his Web site, trademark included.

The self-styled success guru says people are ready for his wisdom if "You simply (and deeply) want to make more money and become more successful" and "want to double, triple, even multiply by ten the size of your business."

It's not clear what type of financial wizardry was being taught inside the 415-square-foot homemade sweat lodge when a 38-year-old female surfer and a 40-year-old father of three dropped dead.

Ray's company, James Ray International, is based in Carlsbad, Calif. Ray's publicist, Howard Bragman, expressed condolences in a statement Friday but declined to speak about the deaths. Bragman didn't return a call for additional comment Saturday.

The Angel Valley Retreat Center is owned by Michael and Amayra Hamilton, who rented it to Ray for a five-day "Spiritual Warrior" retreat that promised to "absolutely change your life."

On Saturday, Amayra Hamilton said Ray has held the event at the resort for seven years, and there never have been any problems.

Hamilton said the resort remains closed to the public. The sweat lodge has been dismantled and a ceremony was conducted for those affected by Thursday's incident.

"The whole situation is very traumatizing for everybody," she said.

The people at Ray's retreat, whose ages ranged from 30 to the 60s, paid between $9,000 and $10,000 to attend.

Ray and his staff constructed the temporary sweat lodge with a wood frame and covered it with layers of tarps and blankets, Waugh said. The sweat lodge — a structure commonly used by American Indian tribes to cleanse the body and prepare for hunts, ceremonies and other events — was 53 inches high at the center and about 30 inches high around the outer edges.

(AP/Tom Tingle, Arizona Republic)
Photo: Investigators look over a "sweat lodge" on the grounds of Angel Valley Retreat Center, near Sedona, Ariz.

Between 55 and 65 people were crowded into the 415-square-foot space during a two-hour period that included various spiritual exercises led by Ray, Waugh said. Every 15 minutes, a flap was raised to allow more volcanic rocks the size of cantaloupes to be brought inside.

Authorities said participants were highly encouraged but not forced to remain in the sweat lodge for the entire time.

Joseph Bruchac, author of "The Native American Sweat Lodge: History and Legends," called the number of participants in the lodge "appalling."

"If you put people in a restrictive, airtight structure, you are going to use up all oxygen," he said by phone Saturday from his home in Saratoga Springs, N.Y. "And if you're doing a sweat, you're going to use it up that much faster."

American Indian sweat lodges typically hold about 12 people and are covered with blankets made of natural materials, such as cotton or wool, and the air flow isn't restricted, he said.

"I don't see how the person running that lodge could have been aware of the health and well-being of that many people," he said.

The participants had fasted for 36 hours as part of a personal and spiritual quest in the wilderness, then ate a breakfast buffet Thursday morning. After various seminars, they entered the sweat lodge lightly dressed at 3 p.m.

Two hours later, a woman dialed 911 to say that two people, whom Waugh identified as 38-year old New Yorker Kirby Brown and 40-year-old James Shore of Milwaukee, did not have a pulse and weren't breathing.

According to a family spokesperson, Brown was an avid surfer and hiker who was "in top shape," before the mysterious sweat lodge death.

(AP Photo/Family of Kirby Brown)
Photo: Kirby Brown in undated family image.

A nurse hired by Ray was directing rescue efforts including CPR when emergency crews arrived, Waugh said. Shore and Brown were pronounced dead when they arrived at a hospital.

Sheriff's Lt. David Rhodes said authorities were checking whether there was a lag time between the first signs of medical distress and the emergency call.

Autopsies on Brown and Shore were conducted Friday, but the results weren't disclosed pending additional tests. Authorities have ruled out carbon monoxide poising as the cause.

Matt Collins, who knew Shore since seventh grade, described his friend as a wonderful husband and father whose life revolved around his three kids. "Everybody who got to know him absolutely loved him," Collins told The Associated Press.

Brown, a graduate of the State University of New York at Geneseo, had two sisters who recently got married, two new nephews and a focus on "making the world more beautiful for someone, not only with her art but with her heart," family spokesman Tom McFeeley said. Although the family is saddened by her death, he said Brown created a roadmap by which others should live.

"She was the least selfish, kindest person I knew," he said.

McFeeley said Brown had attended similar retreats, although he wasn't certain whether any were hosted by Ray. He said Brown, who grew up in Brooklyn and Westtown and spent time in Mexico, saw the outing as a chance to continue on a positive path in life.

MORE ON CRIMESIDER
October 12, 2009 - Family Says New Yorker Kirby Brown was in Great Shape before Mysterious Sweat Lodge Death
October 9, 2009 - Angel Valley Resort: Two Dead, Many Hospitalized in Sedona Sweat Lodge Illness






Tags:
james arthur ray ,
sedona ,
sweat lodge deaths ,
angel valley retreat center ,
,
angel valley ,
crimesider
Topics:
Daily Blotter
Share:
  • Share
  • Yahoo! Buzz
  • Mixx
Add a Comment See all 105 Comments
by JasonDaro November 8, 2009 11:22 PM EST
What I see about you people is you don't realize that James Arthur Ray was sharing with people WHAT (((HE))) DOES to be at his best and extremely successful. You act as though he was making people do things he would not dare do to himself. Unless I am mistaken, he was RIGHT THERE sharing his best ideas and actions towards success.

Obviously, he assumed everyone there would be strong enough to endure what he endures. Apparently he based that assumption on the fact that he had held that same type of sweat lodge ceremony for the last SEVEN YEARS with no bad incident. Now, if this was his FIRST sweat lodge ceremony of this type that might very well be different. To hold such an event for SEVEN FRIGGIN YEARS with no bad incident makes all the difference.

Now, I don't know if the sweat lodges of his in the past were as big as this one. Chances are NEITHER DO YOU who judge him guilty without knowing all the facts.

However, REMEMBER that James Arthur Ray was not asking people to do things that he himself would not do AND they were not being forced to pay the fee for the seminar.

I suggest you keep this in mind before you blindly condemn the man as a murderer.
Reply to this comment
by JasonDaro November 8, 2009 1:07 PM EST
To the Native Americans viewing this forum I offer a sincere apology for what the Christian White Man and his hypocrite religion has done to you and your culture. I would not mention anything except this holier than thou apparent Christian doesn?t think I am civil enough. I am too honest for his liking.

After many years of study (for a time I had 7 translations of the Bible) I have now come to the conclusion that there is more than enough room in the universe for a different heaven devoted to all the predominantly righteous people of different beliefs. There?s enough room for a Buddhist heaven, a Muslim heaven, a Native American red man heaven and a heaven for every predominantly righteous person on Earth.

Do not let these self-righteous hypocrite Christians trick you into thinking that the good you do is not good enough. The good you do is more than good enough. Keep doing even more good, so that your conscience does not condemn you.

Make no mistake about this: those who ask Jesus to forgive them and persist in doing their hypocrite evil are in for quite a shock when they die.

Do good and good will return to you according to Universal Law
Reply to this comment
by JasonDaro November 6, 2009 6:39 PM EST
You people remind of that incident with the Beatles. Back in England John Lennon had stated that the Beatles were more popular than Jesus. Paul stated that John said this in a way to indicate that the church should be doing more to promote Jesus. That is was not right that the Beatles should be more popular than Jesus. The British press just kind of shrugged it off.

Then the American Christians got a hold of the interview. They didn't care about the facts of the matter and the context in which John Lennon made the statement. All they saw was a opportunity to destroy the Beatles and they started circulating rumors that John Lennon stated that The Beatles were better than Jesus. All the Christians cared about was SLANDER! Truth, in this matter, was not what they wanted. They wanted to destroy and so they took the quote of John Lennon out of context and spread rumors to destroy The Beatles.

THAT'S JUST LIKE WHAT YOU PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO DO TO JAMES ARTHUR RAY!

You don't care about the facts. You are making allusions to him being like Jim Jones. You don't care AT ALL about the good he has done in the past.

YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!

But, obviously, you people are beyond feeling shame for your guilt.

And you would try to convince me that the human race deserves anything more than extinction as a species? Sorry, I just don't see it. The scenario in that 2012 movie soon coming out is better than most of you OBVIOUSLY deserve.
Reply to this comment
by 281ballaz November 7, 2009 7:11 PM EST
Telling the public that the human race needs to be extinct and die out in 2012 is not convincing the world of a love for humanity, but a possible preoccupation with nihilism. The Maya people do not appreciate
their culture being misrepresented either. The psyche drugs reference is a sneaky attack on those who are mentally ill, as well as an indirect disparaging comment to cast doubt on the viewpoints of anyone who would disagree with your stated opinions. If someone wishes to defend someone and stand on moral high-ground then they should at least be civil. Here is a word of wisdom: Matthew 6:19. "But amass for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust does corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal."
by JasonDaro November 8, 2009 1:55 AM EST
I just state the truth. There is no indication I see that the human race deserves anything other than extinction as a species. They are a spreading cancer raping, poisoning and destroying practically every wonderful thing in their path and if something does not stop them they will be spreading their diseases throughout the galaxy.

It's the truth and, in your heart, you know it!

Your precious scientists, who you and your kind admired, exploded hydrogen bombs 10 or 20 times more powerful than the ones on Hiroshima and Nagasaki miles UNDERGROUND. Those scientists who were certain those bombs would not eventually cause catastrophic earthquakes were worse than mentally ill. They were stark, raving insane! They should have been locked away in an insane asylum before they were allowed to explode those powerful hydrogen bombs miles below the Earth. Now the earthquakes are getting more powerful and frequent, as any relatively wise person could easily predict. You people haven?t seen the worst of them yet.

The psychiatrists who did not have those scientists locked away as insane are EVEN MORE INSANE!

Of course, you are probably so brainwashed that you won?t realize this even as you are dying in a 2012 movie type of disaster.

Oh well?.

I suggest you enjoy your lives before the bane of your scientists bears its inevitable fruit. Oh, worse than the earthquakes off the coast of Samoa and in Asia are on the way alright. Bet on it!

And YOU who condemn a person like James Arthur Ray without evaluating all the evidence deserve better? I don?t see it. You Christians like to lay a guilt trip on the world. Well, the condemnation you would bring onto others is going to backfire on you.

You and your kind went to church on Sunday, said ?Jesus forgive us?, cleared your conscience then went back to work breaking all your treaties to the Native Americans on Monday.

YOUR DAY IS COMING!!!

I should tell you what to do with your Bible verses
by JasonDaro November 8, 2009 2:06 AM EST
You Christians seem to thing that Jesus was always ?civil? when He presented the truth. The evidence does not tell that story. All indications are that Jesus WAS NOT CIVIL when he told the hypocrite religious leaders just what He thought of them. For about 30 years Jesus was civil. Then the Holy Spirit came upon them and MADE HIM tell those people the truth. Since Jesus had no electrical PA system He obviously had to SHOUT to be heard by all the people who followed him. Yes, when Jesus insulted the hypocrite religious leaders chances are you Christians would be extremely shocked to see just how angry Jesus was; and He had every right to be angry with them.

So you keep that in mind before you judge me as not being civil enough when presenting the truth. Chances are I am extremely mild compared to Jesus when He got angry and whipped the money changers.

I just want to make certain you people realize that I am NOT James Arthur Ray. I think the way I present myself makes that very clear, don?t you?
by JasonDaro November 8, 2009 2:19 AM EST
This incident with James Arthur Ray has made me more determined than ever to NEVER be in a position of having people buy any book I would produce or follow me. Just in case God has any ideas I want to make absolutely certain I make it clear to the entire universe that I will NEVER be good enough to lead any group of people anywhere! I believe most of what I have heard James Arthur Ray teach, but when I present the same information people tend to automatically reject it and that is just fine with me.

So, if you feel I am too arrogant I am grateful. May I always be too arrogant to hold workshops, seminars and/or be chosen to lead the people out of Israel. May God choose YOU instead. Ha!
by JasonDaro November 6, 2009 6:17 PM EST
And just in case you are thinking that I am actually James Arthur Ray you are dead wrong. James Arthur Ray is much nicer than I am. I am not the type who puts up with crap from slanderous people like you.

That's a very BIG DIFFERENCE!

Let's all see three aspects of James Arthur Ray's philosophy that prove he is secretly a fraud with murderous intent.

HINT:

You won't find any!
Reply to this comment
by JasonDaro November 6, 2009 6:12 PM EST
You people are too much. You completely ignore the good James Arthur Ray has done in the past and make all kinds of slanderous claims without knowing what you are talking about.

YOU SHOULD BE SUED FOR SLANDER!

And for you who think that James Arthur Ray would deliberately murder people at his seminar...well...you should have the dosage on your psyche drugs increased.
Reply to this comment
by JasonDaro November 6, 2009 6:05 PM EST
You people thought you were so big and tough ganging up together against the character of James Arthur Ray. Now you have gone silent. I guess I'm tougher than all of you combined!

I'm not afraid of you!

Let see three things James Arthur Ray has stated that obviously make him out to be a fraud.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!
Reply to this comment
by JasonDaro November 6, 2009 3:02 AM EST
Three reasons James Arthur Ray is a wise man worth listening to:

Quotes by James Arthur Ray ...


"Energy flows where attention goes." -- James Arthur Ray


"In your life's defining moments there are two choices - you either step forward in faith and power or you step backward into fear." -- James Arthur Ray


"Money won't ever make you happy, nor was it ever meant to. Happiness comes from within. Money at best will make you more comfortable." -- James Arthur Ray
Reply to this comment
by JasonDaro November 5, 2009 5:52 PM EST
From what little I have studied into this matter, James Arthur Ray has held this same type of warrior seminar for the last 7 years with no incident. You who rashly accuse him of being a murderer would believe that he would deliberately murder the participants of his sweat lodge ceremony? To what end? You think he would deliberately attempt to destroy all the good he has done? Where in his books do you find him to be that crazy?

It is possible that someone put something in the water that was poured over the hot rocks in order to do harm. You should not just blindly rule this possibility out.

If you would call James Arthur Ray a fraud I now openly challenge YOU to share with us three of the main things about his philosophy that you consider fraudulent. If you cannot do so you are making slanderous allegations and YOU should be SUED for doing so!

LET?S ALL SEE THE THREE THINGS JAMES ARTHUR RAY TEACHES THAT HAS YOU CONVINCED HE IS A FRAUD!

Time to put up and prove to us all just how wise you really are!

Remember: standard church membership requires that members give 10% of their income. Keep this in mind before you would fault James Arthur Ray for the price of his seminars.
Reply to this comment
by JasonDaro November 5, 2009 4:44 PM EST
*I would like to share a post I just created about this matter:


To me:

A Winner is someone who is fully prepared to face eternity with a clear conscience

A Loser is someone who is not fully prepared to face eternity with a clear conscience

The ignorant automatically assume that if a person has a lot of money they are automatically a ?winner?. In my view it is indeed possible for a person to be a billionaire and still be a loser. How you make your money is more important, from the eternal aspects, than how much money you have.

A Winner is extremely grateful for the wonderful things in his life and builds a better life founded on gratitude and appreciation for all the wonderful things that have been entrusted to him. He regularly DEMONSTRATES his gratitude and appreciation by striving to take excellent care of all the wonderful things entrusted to him

In Contrast

A Loser tends to gloss over all the wonderful things in his life with an attitude that they are not wonderful enough. He tends to moan and complain about what he doesn?t have or like and, through the process, attracts and manifests more of what he doesn?t have and doesn?t like.


A Winner is truly happy for those who are successful in life. Even if they are more successful than he personally is. A Winner rejoices over the happy victories of others

In Contrast

A Loser is secretly jealous of those who he feels are more successful than he is. He says bad things about them behind their backs and secretly wishes them ill. By doing so he sets up a universal pattern to attract the essence of all the bad things he wishes for others into his life


A Winner does not rejoice over the misfortunes of others and NEVER jumps to bad conclusions about someone without knowing all the facts

In Contrast

A Loser is always ready to rejoice over the misfortunes of others. Without knowing the facts he spreads all kinds of bad rumors and sets himself up for disaster in the process. Losers don?t care about the good a man like James Arthur Ray has done. They gloss over all the good, just as they gloss over the good in their lives. They make accusations without foundation. I can ask them to state three of the main things about the philosophy of James Arthur Ray that they disagree with and they have no answer. They will label such a man as a fraud without even knowing what they are talking about.

So, I am not now specifically calling any member here a loser, but if the shoe fits?well?remember that it?s all just my opinion and opinions are like farts. Everyone has them.

I would indeed like you to straighten me out here if you feel I am wrong. I am always ready to upgrade my personal views. If I am wrong I am man enough to openly admit it. ARE YOU?
Reply to this comment
by KThundercloud November 4, 2009 5:41 PM EST
For the record, Natives NEVER sell our spirituality. Charging 8 to 10 grand just verifies this guy is a hoax that has stolen our heritage, and unfortunately, incorrectly. At best this man is guilty of reckless endangerment. So, why hasn't he been arrested? Had it been some not so rich person doing this same thing, they would have been tried and convicte by now. Why was he allowed to run from the scene of his crime, and twitter away? Justice for his victims MUST be sought. He is nothing but a myrderer. For anyone considering any type of Native American ceremony, remember we don't sell it, we share it.
Reply to this comment
by JasonDaro November 8, 2009 2:59 PM EST
How much money James Arthur Ray charges is not the issue. He is not forcing anyone to pay it. The issue here is what he does with the money. That is the issue he must deal with as he faces eternity. It is not my business OR YOURS to play God and judge the man. We don't know all the facts and would do well to wish him all the very best so that all the very best will come back around for us
by LaurahLMT October 31, 2009 1:49 PM EDT
As a person who loves the Inipi and has gone to legit ceremonies many times, it is apparent that this is an unethical, uninformed man who is greedy and is unfit to run a sweat...the number of rounds, the fact that it costs money, the plastic tarp used (it does not breathe and therefore is dangerous), the number of people in the structure all point to fraud...it is the water pourer's responsibility to know when the door is to be opened, how each person is doing, when someone needs to leave the lodge...all responsibility is in their hands...
this man is only out for money. He is not a holy man. He is a fake who by overfilling the lodge and charging money let alone not knowing how to run a sweat...I've personally never been in a lodge ceremony where there is more than five rounds and only occasionally have been at ones that had five rounds.
You wanna sweat and talk to spirit? We have plenty of lodges here in Oklahoma...the price? If you have the means maybe a dish for the potluck afterwards, and maybe a pouch of tobacco for the water pourer, if you do not have the means, you are still more than welcome.
I've never seen money exchanged, never seen someone get ill...and if you need to leave the lodge the door is opened and you may leave.
This man hurts all who know the truth and goodness in these ceremonies when done in the proper ways. I was talking to some friends in a lodge last weekend...this man is a murderer...a man who is dark of heart and spirit. It is a shame so many believe him...BTW setting intentions on greed and vanity is not praying in a good way...we pray for the people not on monetary gains...prayer said in selfish ways borders on witchcraft and is ethically wrong. The lodge is not non-christian BTW...it is the same God (who else is The Creator?), and some ceremonies are held at Christian churches even...I know Ministers who also are keepers of lodges.
I pray for strength for the families who lost loved ones. I pray for the people to see the truth and not fear the Inipi but to respect it for what it is really and not this sacrilege that this greedy many made it. I pray for this selfish man, if he cannot change may he be kept from hurting our people anymore.
Aho Metaque Oyasin!
Reply to this comment
by yellow_haired_yankton October 31, 2009 1:40 AM EDT
I am a proud native american and take full offence as to what this group of individuals has done! Being Native I have gone through sweat lodge, and never have I, nor would I believe in a man that tries to teach wealth through sweat. Sweat is one of our most holiest rituals. To go through sweat, one must be prepared to expierence new and sometimes challenging moments, but by no means are we EVER encouraged to stay the entire time! Truthfully during sweat with the proper guidence, (Either a medicine man/woman or shaman), you are informed "should you feel the need to leave the sweat speak up, and a door (opening of the entrance) will occur". The reason for leaving is that, if you should become overwhelmed by the heat or anything else that may affect you, your prayer has been heard by the creator or GOD (to those of different religion).You would do no good by trying to prove, to either yourself or another, that you can "make it through". For a person that has no regard for the spiritual aspect of the sweat to do such an atrocity as to pose as a person that should be followed, because of wealth, deserves to be handled by the creator himself! I am in no position to judge the individual but will say here and now," James Ray you have misused our sacred ceremony to better yourself at the expense of those who have reached out to you in guidence.Wwith this knowledge and belief you shall come into your own demise!" By no means do I discredit the people involved that have lost their lives and been returned to the creator. I believe that we all shall learn from this one mans misuse of such a sacred ceremony and the loss of the innocents that had occured. To all my brothers and sisters, anties and uncles, grandmothers and grandfathers, mothers, and fathers, I ask that if you find a person doing something so mischievous as to prey on the needs of a person that may need the guidence of a REAL teacher, STOP THEM! There are many REAL guides in life, but one you have to pay for their knowledge, is not a guide but more a prankster (Coyote or Spider in many Native beliefs). Pranksters will harm you, while guides will help you learn from within. To the families that have been hurt or affected by this group or man I say "To all my relatives I pray, To the North, South, West, East, mother earth and the creator, watch over the people harmed by this one mans and groups ignorance!, Aho!"
Reply to this comment
by darbunny October 31, 2009 2:56 AM EDT
YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD YHF!!!! YOU PUT THAT BAD KARMA OUT THERE YOU SHOULD EXPECT BAD KARMA BACK!!!! HE IS A MURDERER N THE WORST FORM OF A TEACHER!!! THE CREATOR WILL SURELY TAKE CARE OF HIM IN THE HEREAFTER!!!!I AM SURE EVERY NATIVE AMERICAN OUT THERE IS ASHAMED OF WHAT HE HAS DONE!!!!!AS I AM MYSELF!!I FEEL FOR THOSE FAMILIES AS WELL....THEY ARE IN A FAR BETTER PLACE THAN WHAT TOOK THEM THERE!!!!
by JasonDaro November 8, 2009 3:12 PM EST
You had better hope the "BAD KARMA" you have put out in your post doesn't come back around and swallow you whole, Mr Holier than Thou.

You have no proof that he is a murderer!

You had better stop slandering the man or the (((BAD KARMA))) you are sending out will indeed come back around exploding into your miserable life!

If you continue to ignore all the good James Arthur Ray has done and jump to conclusions against him without knowing all the facts you are dooming yourself with your own BAD KARMA!
by JensComments October 30, 2009 5:47 PM EDT
I would have to agree that BenjaminRamsey may be a cover for James Ray.

What is really scary is the comment I copy/pasted from his post:

"But what's more tragic than the sad loss of those two people (three People Benjamin) is the widespread belief that wealth is not created but only taken from others."

Are you for real? Three people perishing at the hands of James Ray and his Team is less tragic then the belief systems people have about how wealth is created in their lives.

According to Bunn, "Ray was standing about 10 feet away, watching. He didn't do anything, he didn't participate in helping. He did nothing. He just stood there."

It is reported James did not stay at the Spiritual Warrior retreat to lend a hand in the chaos he created, but headed back home to get ready for his next Harmonic Wealth event. This is why I think James did post the comment under the pseudo BenjaminRamsey. His ACTIONS show he was more concerned with his next wealth event, he was CREATING, rather than sticking around and being of service.

I attended one of James Ray's free events in Orlando Florida and purchased his Harmonic Wealth Home Study Course. I am a Certified Hypnotist, NLP Practitioner, and Life Creation Coach. I have promoted James Ray on my websites and to my clients. I will no longer align myself with a man that believes doing nothing, walking away, and lawyering up was the best he could offer what he calls ?HIS FAMILY? that were sick and dying! Good L.U.C.K. with that reality...Living Under Correct Knowledge...I don't think so.
Reply to this comment
by JasonDaro November 8, 2009 3:24 PM EST
A lot more people perished by horrendous torture because they followed the teachings of Jesus. Let's see you all badmouth Jesus for that! C'mon, people were tortured to death. Many were crucified and were up on the cross for about THREE-DAYS instead of Jesus who was on the cross for about three-hours. If you have bad things to say about James Arthur Ray for the three people who died let's all see if you have the guts to badmouth Jesus for the, possibly, thousands who died because they adhered to His teachings! Compared to all those who died horribly torturous deaths following the teachings of Jesus what happened at that James Arthur Ray sweat lodge was next to nothing.

Now, I'm not trying to say that James Arthur Ray is Jesus returned. If he was, chances are, THOUSANDS would now be dead instead of three. According to prophecy, when Jesus comes back He's not going to be the nice guy He was in His last incarnation.
by believerinHim October 26, 2009 11:39 PM EDT
There are many tragedies here, including fmason1. It's obvious that someone who is so determined to disprove God exists is simply insecure of himself and his eternity. That's ok, faith takes a strong person and a personal relationship with our Creator. Many like you have found their salvation after years or even a lifetime of defiance, such defiance being so lengthy simply for attention. It's there for you as it is for all who accept Him in their lives! I wish you well in whichever you choose, hoping of course you at least seek Him earnestly before completely writing Him off.
Reply to this comment
by mjnaus October 23, 2009 6:46 PM EDT
This Arizona sweat lodge ceremony was another "hidden death trap"(the title of my book) which can be researched on amazon.com. Safety standards for hyperthermia were nowhere in place. My brother drowned in a hotel jetted bathtub from hyperthermia because the water temperature when he climbed in was 114 degrees fahrenheit. There were no safety standards in the hotel room warning of the impending hazard of hyperthermia due to an extended exposure in this tub. Those participants were in the sweat lodge too long.
Reply to this comment
by fmason1 October 23, 2009 4:02 PM EDT
"god" must be very lonely as he is only one and all alone sucks to be him even a bum can get friends...dont you people every try to think about that concept of the "one" "god" you think a being popped out of no where and will remain forever and has one son hahaha who came out of no where and became a human and came to get killed ....only weak minded fools believe that crap....

no one gave him birth nor will he die ..he must hate his existence in such a lonely and weak manner.. because the last time I checked the world is in chaos everywhere and its definitely not up to people's idea of "Mr. God" to help. Religions were written for a totally different age and smart people can even see that as they can uncover facts that were hidden in these books for so long that the old man just couldn't understand.

Sad part of it is that people are too weak to think for themselves and need someone else to "help" them. This country wasn't based on that crap and it became weak when religions took control.

This guy should be convicted of Murder in the 2nd degree as he caused these actions by his ignorance and all his assistants involved should get punished too. That $3M he got paid to "help" people in 2008 should go to these families and others hes robbed.


God=energy
energy=god
E=MC^2
God=MC^2
energy can not be created nor destroyed, like Gods explanation in books
God is potential energy and we are kinetic energy its as simple as it gets and i shouldn't go further or it will overwhelm minds.

I hope my posts help people I know its not for all but if it helps 1 or 2 people learn I will be happy.

I know the people who know what I am talking about here will agree.
Reply to this comment
by fmason1 October 23, 2009 3:52 PM EDT
Well first of all this is sad and tragic to say the least.
Secondly this is an example of how weak people NEED SOMEONE or something to believe in. If these people are all about doing good then why don't they go do some good instead of going to $10k seminars.

They are all unfortunately even though good at heart very weak at mind and get manipulated. This James guy made $3M last yr selling this stuff. He left the state after the people died he is no different from all the other new age gurus. New age represents energy which we all have access to already by connecting it don't need no fancy people, tapes, dvds, rituals, nor any fancy seminars. This is no different from gangs, politics, corruption, cruelty, and injustice these people did what they did because they COULD as the weak allowed them to do so. He didn't force you in that seminar he is a capitalist just like all of us fellow Americans. We are all about money and would of done this if we could too. Instead of blaming new age gurus or other things one should point at themselves. All these people are simply very weak and this is because of religious conditioning even after they leave religions they stay weak minded by submitting to a person or persons and think they need help.

We are not communism we are capitalism and anyone is allowed to legally make money any way they can, instead of trying to stop ventures we need to stop manipulation and that starts with people's minds.

Weak minded people like to hear strong men or women talk who have the guts to say things anyone can go on stage and say stuff and people will pay you that's rewarding a person for not being scared. Last age of Pisces was the age of Iron or Faith, this "new age" is the age of Aquarius determined by the equinox of the earths spin and represents age of questioning and peace. That whole "faith" in others and "dvds" and all that is really religious dogma. If you want to be a part of the new age start depending on yourself. Not so easy is it ? So they go to people and pay thousands. It is frustrating as its a direct result of ignorance of people as well as greed. Greed is a part of all of us however, at least this guy Ray doesn't sell drugs or commit crimes. He does what he does to make money and greed is very natural and all this "dark" stuff you people are writing about is nothing but religious dogmas. This "light" and "dark" doesn't exist besides in your mind and your perception. Stop getting manipulated by these people and stop thinking they can make you money.

ONLY YOU CAN ACHIEVE WHAT YOU WANT NOT THESE CLOWNS. If they could do it for you why are they still working and putting up these seminars ?

Fellow Countrymen lets wake up and take contract of our brains then our wallets will be fine.
Reply to this comment
by JasonDaro November 8, 2009 7:38 PM EST
James Arthur Ray most probably left the sweat lodge event at the instructions of his lawyer. What? You don't think he called his lawyer when this happened? Of course he must have and his lawyer gave him instructions and he most probably followed those instructions. He was obviously too shaken up to properly deal with the situation at the time.

Is that so hard to believe? Do you expect him to be superhuman? How would YOU feel under such circumstances? You would be shocked and confused, right? Not such a great time to stay and be interviewed, right?

Be logical, people. Under such shocking circumstances you would have most probably done exactly what your lawyer instructed and YOU KNOW IT!
by JasonDaro November 8, 2009 7:47 PM EST
If James Arthur Ray had stayed and was cool, calm and collected you would have said that he was a heartless bastard and probably called him the Anti-Christ. If he was all shaken up you would have said that his philosophy can?t take the strain of real life situations. How could he win with you people who have always been dead set against him?

It was best he left until he could pray and get all the best guidance possible before he officially reacted.

Any wise person knows it?s best to relax and fully calm down before you make any very important decisions in a situation like this. If you are emotionally stressed you just may say or do the wrong thing without even realizing it and the press will pounce on you like a crazed demon.
by seeker108 October 22, 2009 12:38 PM EDT
Since James Ray's site does not accept posts, here's my response to his statement on his blog:
Mr. Ray - this is not about you but about the people you serve. It is not about your life's challenge at this time but about the people who trust you. If you are a true teacher and leader, you'd know that you are a servant. The only "right" way of action for the leader is to follow the Dharma, or the highest truth, and to act from highest integrity. By not being diligent in checking on the integrity of the sweat lodge construction and packing more people than you could reasonably and personally supervise, you compromised the integrity of your work. If you are a true Mystic, you should know that mystical power demands respect and is not forgiving of sloppiness and personal greed. Your overconfidence blinded you and shifted your priority from servicing your participants to pushing your way. While spiritual transformation does require pushing pass the limits, unskillful and unqualified guidance can kill. This is why a true teacher always asks him/herself whether what they do is truly the right way and in highest integrity, or is it a petty rationalization for a personal agenda? An oversized ego can't be further away from an authentic teacher's way. An authentic leader has the courage to look into the heart of the problem and take a clear, non-ambiguous responsibility. There are no accidents in the world of mysticism, Mr. Ray.
Reply to this comment
by rbaldwin143 October 22, 2009 2:16 PM EDT
Why would anyone think it is okay to restrict air to sixty people inside an enclosed heated structure? What a terrible tragedy and how dare you James Ray for leading this type of event.
by JensComments October 30, 2009 6:02 PM EDT
Perfect! Love the insight!!!
by BrooklynBombshell October 22, 2009 3:35 AM EDT
Clearly then, when he goes to jail, it's because he signed a contract to do so before he came down. OK, James, time to fulfill your part in this play called life. Get your soap on a rope....
Reply to this comment
by susannahsss October 20, 2009 9:05 PM EDT
I attended one of his seminars in San Diego Aug. 2008 and so much of what he said was great. I paid a lot of money and was trying to look past all the pressure etc. and get something out of the weekend. I had a great time. But, he became a little dark at the end (crying and all - just dark and weird) and I chose not to attend another one. I lost two friends at that seminar and two girls went home and asked for a divorce. I got the feeling James thinks he's (or wants to be) God. I got so much out of that weekend - I now completely understand that there is truly only one God. And I am going to save a lot of money and stick with Him!!
Reply to this comment
See all 105 Comments

Crimesider Topics

Crimesider is the ultimate destination for true-crime fans: riveting crimes, exclusive 911 calls, police interrogations, expert forensics, and more. It's in our DNA. Now it's in yours.

BOOK 'EM

Book 'Em: Mommy's Little Girl -- Casey Anthony and her Daughter Caylee's Tragic Fate

Diane Fanning Goes Behind the Headlines to Provide a Heartbreaking Account of a Case That Shocked the Nation

Photos
Scroll Left Scroll Right