Courtwatch
August 23, 2009 1:26 PM

CIA Report: Into Holder's Looking Glass

(CBS)
Although we came to learn about them five years apart, there is no separating in law or in fact the prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib from the prisoner abuse at Guantanamo Bay or wherever else our government's agents used mock executions and power-drills during interrogation sessions of terror suspects.

Whether in Iraq or Cuba, whether at Gitmo, Bagram Air Force Base, Diego Garcia or at some secret prison, the odious conduct occurred around the same time (2003), came from the same dubious legal rationale (Bush-era torture memos), and ultimately upon its disclosure brought embarrassment, if not outright shame, to our diplomatic and public-relations efforts in the war on terrorism.

We've already processed through our court systems the men and women whose actions generated the Abu Ghraib scandal. At least 12 soldiers and civilians, including Lynndie England and Charles Graner, were found guilty or pleaded out their cases. Most of these ignominious people say they have been punished unfairly for the sins of their superior officers. Six years after the photos, we still do not know how high up goes this particular chain of command.

Now a new administration, fated like all the rest to ride out the consequences of its predecessor's worst choices, must decide what to do with Central Intelligence Agency operatives accused of terrorizing suspected (or even proven) terrorists with tactics straight out of Scarface. We learned about their excesses thanks to a leak to Newsweek (late on a Friday evening in August with the loudest of the chattering class in Maine, on the Vineyard, or in the Hamptons) of a long-awaited internal CIA Inspector's General Report written in 2004, before the CIA destroyed videotaped evidence of its interrogations.

If its weekend preview is any indication, the report - it's still not been made public - is sure to raise the legal and political heat on a man who has just returned from his own August recess. It's been widely reported that Eric Holder has been considering for months whether to endorse federal charges against the sorts of tactics evidently chronicled in the CIA report. And now, with the report due to be made public this week, it's finally time for the attorney general to decide once again whether - and to what degree - we want to treat our soldiers differently from our spies. Back in Washington after his vacation, Holder will earn his salary this week.

As a matter of law, there is no question about what the nation's chief lawyer and law enforcement officer should do. Even the new, watered-down version of our anti-torture law prohibits (with a sentence of 20 years as backstop) the intentional infliction of "severe physical or mental pain or suffering:" brought upon prisoners by their U.S. guards/interrogators through the "threat of imminent death" or the "threatened infliction" of physical pain. "Conspirators" to this crime of torture would be considered under federal law to be just as culpable as the people who fired up the drill in detainee Rahim al-Nashiri's prison cell.

The law seems clear. But when it comes to politics and law in Washington, it's seldom enough to simply apply facts and reach conclusions. Holder knows that the Bush administration stoically refused to prosecute its own policy-makers - men like John Yoo, Jay Bybee, and Alberto Gonzales - who authorized and sanctioned the orders that ultimately led to the abuse. He understands the practical (if unseemly) differences between low-level prison-guard-soldiers and specially trained civilian-spy interrogators. And he realizes that if he starts down the path toward a spectacular CIA trial he might not like where he and his Justice Department end up.

Perhaps that's why it has taken Holder so long to decide what to do about conduct that evidently falls beyond even the expansive rules for interrogations ginned up in 2002 by Bush's Office of Legal Counsel. Or perhaps the delay is explained by the craftsmanship of the memos themselves, explicit enough in sending direction down into the ranks about terror suspects but ambiguous enough to defy future prosecution. Indeed, for this reason, those self-destructive torture directives are like little toy boats sent off from shore onto the surface of a lake. After the initial push they float in the direction in which they were headed, momentum being what it is, until something stops them.

One anonymous official told the Los Angeles Times over the weekend that the interrogators were "almost in juvenile detective mode." But its unlikely the men firing guns in empty cells just invented those ideas or acted out their own fantasies (juvenile or otherwise) in the absence of any orders. Like the disgraced soldiers at Abu Ghraib, we now know that the CIA interrogators, and their supervisors, and maybe their bosses as well, clearly got the drift of the torture memos. The gloves were indeed off. The lawyers had said so. And those agents of the United States acted accordingly. All that remains now is to see what more our government, and the new administration, is willing to do about it.




(CBS)
Andrew Cohen is CBS News' Chief Legal Analyst and Legal Editor. CourtWatch is his new blog with analysis and commentary on breaking legal news and events. For columns on legal issues before the beginning of this blog, click here.
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by cbsnewscomme November 26, 2009 5:52 AM EST
I certainly will never support US ever again. Not unless they prosecute Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld....If they don't we will always live with the idea America is a joke...a bunch of lousey hooligans......and then the whole meaing of it is lost. Even the idea that men died for the US in service to their country....will be looked upon as fools who listen to leaders that break the law. There is no honor to them.....Bush claimed they will not leave Iraq or Afghanistan...because they don't want those who died to die in Vain....is lost because we all know Bush lied in the first place .....and they did die in vain..In order to bring creditability back....and to salute those as not having died in vain is to bring all the troops home... This will stop the disgrace and embarrassment to continue... binLadin did not do 911, and did not bomb the embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. They were ordered jobs by the US CIA to make the case for more Military spending to go for security in those countries...diverted to wage War on countries that stand in the way to America's Oil supply chain. Bush Sr. didn't do it, to Iraq..when that was the real time to go after Saddam...because he knew even then it was wrong. The war in Iraq has been going on long before Saddam when the US and UK seized Iraqi land to make the new State of Kuwait in order to have a port to ship out the Opium they were growing in Turkey in those Days..headed for China... These terrible deeds caused WWI and WWII....and the effects of the hate resonate even in todays time when Saddam decided to reclaim Kuwait. Don't under estimate the Muslim and Arab world..because they will eventually reclaim Kuwait..when this is done with. Mark my words... Iraq's surge did not work....and neither will Afghanistan's... People are waiting in wings for the US to commit the Obama brigades into Afghanistan to begin a new wave if controlling factors to play in Iraq again... They know Bush is gone...and this prompts them to get rid of the Bush puppet regime in Iraq....now that they are escalating into Afghanistan... The plan is working beautifully like cutting the throat of a hoarse pig....and letting it bleed.. The US is quite vulnerable now...the economy is tanked....11 and I say over 15% unemployment will earmark the financial slide into skidrowallstreet USA. Escalation will occur in Afghanistan and attacks will be ramped up against US forces in Iraq...The dollar will continue to head south..and Obama will be up against the wall. Healthcare will fail....troops will stop going into Afghainstan and head to Iraq again...while the economy still flounders. They will use stimulus money to pay for more support to the Military....and the expected new recruiting will dry up....because Americans will be totally against the War at this point. They will see Obama as a liar like all the politicans have proven....and he will not be re-elected in 2012. In fact 2012 will be the year for a third party Candidate who will bring the troops home..end the wars and occupation...and begin to restructure the economy around green jobs...to stop the effects of Global Warming... This will be when America see's a glimmer out of the darkness.
Reply to this comment
by cbsnewscomme November 26, 2009 5:50 AM EST
I certainly will never support US ever again. Not unless they prosecute Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld....If they don't we will always live with the idea America is a joke...a bunch of lousey hooligans......and then the whole meaing of it is lost. Even the idea that men died for the US in service to their country....will be looked upon as fools who listen to leaders that break the law. There is no honor to them.....Bush claimed they will not leave Iraq or Afghanistan...because they don't want those who died to die in Vain....is lost because we all know Bush lied in the first place .....and they did die in vain..In order to bring creditability back....and to salute those as not having died in vain is to bring all the troops home... This will stop the disgrace and embarrassment to continue... binLadin did not do 911, and did not bomb the embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. They were ordered jobs by the US CIA to make the case for more Military spending to go for security in those countries...diverted to wage War on countries that stand in the way to America's Oil supply chain. Bush Sr. didn't do it, to Iraq..when that was the real time to go after Saddam...because he knew even then it was wrong. The war in Iraq has been going on long before Saddam when the US and UK seized Iraqi land to make the new State of Kuwait in order to have a port to ship out the Opium they were growing in Turkey in those Days..headed for China... These terrible deeds caused WWI and WWII....and the effects of the hate resonate even in todays time when Saddam decided to reclaim Kuwait. Don't under estimate the Muslim and Arab world..because they will eventually reclaim Kuwait..when this is done with. Mark my words... Iraq's surge did not work....and neither will Afghanistan's... People are waiting in wings for the US to commit the Obama brigades into Afghanistan to begin a new wave if controlling factors to play in Iraq again... They know Bush is gone...and this prompts them to get rid of the Bush puppet regime in Iraq....now that they are escalating into Afghanistan... The plan is working beautifully like cutting the throat of a hoarse pig....and letting it bleed.. The US is quite vulnerable now...the economy is tanked....11 and I say over 15% unemployment will earmark the financial slide into skidrowallstreet USA. Escalation will occur in Afghanistan and attacks will be ramped up against US forces in Iraq...The dollar will continue to head south..and Obama will be up against the wall. Healthcare will fail....troops will stop going into Afghainstan and head to Iraq again...while the economy still flounders. They will use stimulus money to pay for more support to the Military....and the expected new recruiting will dry up....because Americans will be totally against the War at this point. They will see Obama as a liar like all the politicans have proven....and he will not be re-elected in 2012. In fact 2012 will be the year for a third party Candidate who will bring the troops home..end the wars and occupation...and begin to restructure the economy around green jobs...to stop the effects of Global Warming... This will be when America see's a glimmer out of the darkness.
Reply to this comment
by veteran71 November 15, 2009 9:36 PM EST
That a ruling power elite does indeed control the U.S. government behind the scenes has been attested to by many americans in a position to know. Felix Frankfurter, Justice of the Supreme Court (1939-1962), said: "The real rulers in Washington are invisible and exercise power from behind the scenes." In a letter to an associate dated November 21, 1933, President Franklin Roosevelt wrote, "The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson." (February 23, 1954)

Senator William Jenner warned in a speech: "Outwardly we have a Constitutional government. We have operating within our government and political system, another body representing another form of government, a bureaucratic elite which believes our Constitution is outmoded."

Baron M.A. Rothschild wrote, "Give me control over a nation's currency and I care not who makes its laws."

All that is needed to effectively control a government is to have control over the nation's money: a central bank with a monopoly over the supply of money and credit. This had been done in Western Europe, with the creation of privately owned central banks such as the Bank of England.

Georgetown professor Dr. Carroll Quigley (Bill Clinton's mentor while at Georgetown) wrote about the goals of the investment bankers who control central banks: "... nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole... controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences."

The Bank of the United States (1816-36), an early attempt at an American central bank, was abolished by President Andrew Jackson, who believed that it threatened the nation. He wrote: "The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government, the distress it had wantonly produced...are but premonitions of the fate that awaits the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."

Thomas Jefferson wrote: "The Central Bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the principles and form of our Constitution...if the American people allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

Does that not describe the situation in America today?
Reply to this comment
by babooph November 1, 2009 6:49 AM EST
The war crimes & torture will be covered up & never prosecuted ,or Obama will end up like JFK.
Reply to this comment
by veteran71 November 15, 2009 10:41 AM EST
That's about the size of it.....Our government has been overthrown right in front of our eyes by Authoritarian Elites and they now control all things. Think you could get an honest man elected to office and return us to constitutional governance???......Dream on......
by didserve September 6, 2009 6:59 AM EDT
get politics out of justice you pimp
Reply to this comment
by fcs25 September 5, 2009 8:44 AM EDT
Holder is an incompetent fool.
Reply to this comment
by proudscot September 2, 2009 4:02 PM EDT
Its just unbelievable. Reading some of the moronic guff from you fundamentalist redneck in-breds it's no wonder everybody hates Americans. Torturers, murderers, terrorists, you make islamic fundamentalists look like a bunch of disneyland fairies, except most of them are monumentally smarter than you lot.
I'm glad the Scottish govt released Megrahi, am proud to be Scottish and so utterly glad I'm not an American, or I'd need a lobotomy to keep up with your gross stupidity.
Choke on your Scotch, morons!!!!!
Reply to this comment
by OregonJames August 25, 2009 11:32 AM EDT
Nobody except the guilty should be afraid of the truth. It is honesty, honor, and respect for the rule of law that separates men from tyrants. Secrecy and lies are the tools of tyrants and criminals.

For all of us the choice here should be simple. Do you choose honosty and honor from our presidents, or do you choose secrecy and deceit?
Reply to this comment
by chonder2 August 24, 2009 8:08 AM EDT
Torture? The torture is slogging through a CP3-PEEO post. That's torture!! Let's get amnesia and forget everything that's happened up untill Jan 20, RIGHT 3-PEEO??
Reply to this comment
by chonder2 August 24, 2009 8:00 AM EDT
A LOT of us out here are betting that this line will lead back to the Father and Mother of the Iraq War, Cheney-Rumsfelt, and all the twisted,false,bogus intel Cheney manufactured to get there!!
Reply to this comment
by pensacola8-2009 August 24, 2009 7:47 AM EDT
There are different ways to spin this news. Even in wartime, the US Attorney General has a role in justice, because military justice often shows it's shortcomings in glorious ways.

Constitutional framework does exist and does apply. Wording does try to spin its slang against constitutional intent, and find a loophole.

The question of classifying a foreign national as a prisoner, a beligerant or a enemy combatant has what many believe are different filters in the judicial processes, but all filter through the same component in the US Federal Constitution.

The Bush Administration didn't do enough to apply constitutional framework to many wartime operations, and left judicial procedures up to popular opinion.

The Obama administration knows that with existing wartime operations, it will take years for some military judicial conduct to be recognized and publicized, which is against a tide of patriotism that was created with false needs and facts.

It will require a peacetime condition, before the Democratic congress can surgically disempower the National Security Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency and other obscure agencies from operating practices that contributed to the debacles of today.

I am in favor of completely dismantling the National Security Agency to the the WWII size and empowerment and constitutionally declaring severe limits of the agency and cutting the funding back to zero.

Ultimately the NSA has to be severly trimmed. The US State Department is already empowered with the mission of foreign policy and had to tolerate NSA partnership during the Cold War, but the Cold War is over.
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by babooph August 24, 2009 2:17 AM EDT
The charges must start at the TOP-anything else is another joke-like saying the ww2 concentration camps were some sgts fault-the US propaganda system tried that already with the Iraq prison torture-the patsy was responsible-only the most brainwashed believed that one.
Reply to this comment
by berlinfoto-2009 August 24, 2009 12:49 AM EDT
More about Bush Holden and the rest.
"In that case the creative forces of revolutionary democracy will be hamstrung and a negative process of selection will operate in which the worst elements, the yes-men, the flatterers, the crawlers and the brutal and the unscrupulous careerists, will get to the top in the economic system and in the general life of the country. In this way a stratum of privileged parasites living on the backs of the workers will be created." Wiessberg CONSPIRACY OF SILENCE.
Is this not where America is today, beware history may be going backward maybe the purge come next.
PROSECUTE THE BAS...S, FIND THEM GUILTY AND BURN THEM AT THE STAKE.
Reply to this comment
by berlinfoto-2009 August 23, 2009 10:33 PM EDT
The Powers That Be, want a more ordered, and authoritarian society, they do not want you expression your opinions like this.
When they manage to get all of us to accept the microchip, they will be able to monitor almost our very thoughts, by watching our ever move.
The implanted microchip will make torture more accessible to us all, the microchip allows the real time, full time, 3-d, mapping of the human body, all internal all nerves, all parts of the brain can be mapped. Couple this with a ordinary cell phone, with its extreme high directional transmitted signal and the cell phone with only a software change becomes a torture device. Alien movements of the human body can be forced if one has a microchip under his skin, with only the controller using a cellphone. Will America have a system of controllers and controlled?
When you can now longer afford to feed yourself, will you accept the microchip in order to obtain food?
This financial crisis will be used, to force people to accept the microchip. It is the only way out of the crisis.
Reply to this comment
by Illuminated1 August 23, 2009 5:01 PM EDT
I agree, the jerks working for the man will never be judged in court.
Reply to this comment
by trillion1 August 23, 2009 3:24 PM EDT
Before he was appointed Holder's law firm did a great deal of work for the RNC and bush. He has no intention of biting the hand that fed him no matter what crimes they commited.
Reply to this comment
by Ms_enza October 14, 2009 12:52 PM EDT
He's a lawyer... his loyalty is always in question.
by OregonJames August 23, 2009 2:06 PM EDT
Our leaders are complete cowards and our justice system has been totally corrupted. Absolutely nobody will be held accountable. You can be sure that "national security" will be the excuse for not prosecuting anyone above the lowest ranking peons in the military that have already gone to jail. Those that ordered and performed torture will most certainly be protected from prosecution. Bush, Cheney, and their henchmen will go free in order to "protect our country" from the "pain and embarrassment" that the truth and justice would surely bring forth, and of course we have the old stand-by excuse that such a trial would simply "tear our country apart."

There isn't one politician out there with the nerve to do what is right for America or justice. There will be no prosecutions.
Reply to this comment
by the_majesty August 23, 2009 2:26 PM EDT
The real problem is, this all should have been kept secret.
Some thing are better to be just that. secret.
That why we have the secret service.
by OregonJames August 23, 2009 6:26 PM EDT
bmallin, if you truly believe that only minor abuses occurred and that nobody was really hurt or tortured, then there is little hope for you. Even our own generals have admitted that many died during interrogations and many of these deaths were officially listed as homocides by military investigations. You should read more instead of listening to FOX all day. Much abuse DID occur and people should be prosecuted for their actions, especially those at the top of the chain of command that approved of these "techniques".
by OregonJames August 23, 2009 9:34 PM EDT
bmallen, A quick internet search of "deaths during interrogations" or other similar searches will bring you to numerous reports of detainee deaths and tortures, with many of these reports coming straight from the Pentagon and high ranking military officials. Yes, you will also find a good deal of BS from folks of questionable truthfulness, but much of the info is simply undeniable. Our country is guilty of terrible crimes, and those that committed the crimes should be brought to justice. It is not enough to say "they did it for national security." That excuse has been used by tyrants and dictators many times in history, and it has always been wrong.
by Solarrays247 August 23, 2009 11:36 PM EDT
bmallen3 August 23, 2009 6:09 PM EDT
Get real, there was no physical torture. You need to get a lesson about real torture from almost every other country in the world. Compared to saving lives and preventing deaths, getting somebody's face wet, or scaring them is absolutely nothing. When is this stupidity going to stop. The constitution is not a suicide pact.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Really? Just how special are you that you can claim that there was no physical torture?

Is this like that "WMD" thingy that Bush/Cheney had going on with Iraq?

If you keep saying it enough....that will make it so?

Damn! How about that?
by Solarrays247 August 23, 2009 11:39 PM EDT
superpat1898 August 23, 2009 11:36 PM EDT
Oregonjames,

That's right, girlieboy, blame Bush and Cheney and the brave men and women who unlike you, risk their lives to keep pissants and guilt-ridden bozos like you safe.

You live in Oregon, right? Then get off your bloody land and give it back to the Nez Perce if you are so hung up about Arab Muslims who'd slit your ignorant throat.

If Holder goes through with prosecutions of the CIA, the agents should rise up in mass, throw Panetta through the glass lobby window in Langley, and march on Holder's office. He's done nothing for this country except pardon crooks like Marc Rich and seize little children like Elian Gonzalez.

Bush and Cheney had their share of mistakes, but they're patriots compared to the Obama-Holder crew.

If anyone deserves jail time it is Obama, Holder, Biden, Pelosi, Reid and the rest of the high taxes and Islamohitler appeasing traitors of this current administration.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You left out: Democrats, Liberals, Commies, Socialists...oh...and the NRA, AK-47's......you're slipping, buddy!
by OregonJames August 24, 2009 6:17 AM EDT
superpat, It is in the news today (8/24) that charges WILL be filed and people will be prosecuted for their crimes. It is a great day for America, freedom, liberty, and justice if this is true.

Criminals will not make our nation safer. Neither will torture, kidnappings, and abuse by our leaders. Those actions weaken and disgrace our nation, and your childish rant won't change that.
by OregonJames August 24, 2009 6:19 AM EDT
superpat wrote "That's right, girlieboy, blame Bush and Cheney and the brave men and women who unlike you, risk their lives to keep pissants and guilt-ridden bozos like you safe."

I served my time... How about you big shot?
by blitzder August 24, 2009 2:30 PM EDT
The real question here is, were these torturers really protecting the country, or were they using the prisoners to satisfy their own sadistic impulses.aka Lydie England etc.

No one is ever going to believe in American democracy again. This should not have happened in a democratic country, and committed by people on the the payroll of the US Government.
See all 29 Comments

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