Political Hotsheet
July 20, 2009 3:27 PM

Senate Considers Concealed Weapons Amendment

(CBS/AP)
The Senate begins debating an amendment Monday that would allow people issued concealed weapons permits in their home state to carry those concealed weapons in any state in the union.

The amendment to the defense authorization bill is sponsored by Republican South Dakota Sen. John Thune, who says it "enables citizens to protect themselves while respecting individual state firearms laws." A release from Thune's office claims that "states with concealed carry laws enjoy significantly lower violent crimes rates than those states that do not."

The release also says that those who leave their home state with concealed weapons would still have to follow gun laws in other states, "including laws concerning specific types of locations in which firearms may or may not be carried."

In response to the introduction of the amendment, families of the victims of the 2007 Virginia Tech shootings placed a full-page ad in the Richmond Times-Dispatch urging Virginia's two senators, Jim Webb and John Warner, to oppose it.

The ad says the amendment would make some of the gun laws the families have been fighting for "meaningless by forcing our law enforcement to honor permits from states with weaker rules."

It notes, among other examples, that Virginia will not issue a concealed weapons permit to those who have received residential mental health or substance abuse treatment in the past five years, unlike some other states.

In New York, which has relatively strict gun laws, Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer is also speaking out against the amendment.

"Right now you walk down the streets in New York or Nassau County or Westchester County, you can have the solace of knowing that if someone has a gun on them, they've gone through a rigorous background check," he said at a Sunday news conference. "After this law, you can have no such comfort."

A group called the Violence Policy Center released a study Monday saying that "concealed handgun permit holders killed at least seven police officers and 44 private citizens in 31 incidents during the period May 2007 through April 2009." There have been three mass shootings carried out by concealed weapon permit holders, according to gun control groups.

Thune's amendment is cosponsored by 12 Republicans – John Barasso (Wyo.), Robert Bennett (Utah), Tom Coburn (Okla.), John Cornyn (Texas), John Ensign (Nev.), Michael Enzi (Wyo.), Chuck Grassley (Iowa), Judd Gregg (N.H.), Orrin Hatch (Utah), Johnny Isakson (Ga.), Pat Roberts (Kan.), and David Vitter (La.) – and one Democrat, Mark Begich (Ark.).

Illinois and Wisconsin do not issue concealed weapon permits, while 31 of the states that do issue them require some safety training before issuing them and do not allow alcohol abusers to have them, according to the Washington Post. Some states already have reciprocity agreements regarding their differing concealed weapons laws.

In an editorial, the Post calls the prospect of the amendment's passage "frightening" and says it would make the streets more dangerous.

"Conservatives usually argue against the federal government telling states what they can and can't do," the editorial argues. "If approved, the Thune amendment would trample all over the rights of states and cities to enforce reasonable restrictions on gun ownership."
Tags:
concealed weapons ,
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John Thune ,
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Topics:
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by ljonas1 July 22, 2009 3:56 PM EDT
Women tend to understand the need for self-defense on a very personal level. For example, it can be very frightening for a woman to travel alone. She should not have to worry about whether or not she can protect herself when she crosses over a state line.

My daughter was at Virginia Tech when the shootings occurred. She was absolutely traumatized by the fact that something like this could happen at her school. She cried for months. She couldn't understand how he could kill so many people and that they all had to wait for somebody to come from the outside to stop him. Nobody on campus could do a thing.

NOBODY should ever be left defenseless.
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by courtbuster July 21, 2009 11:10 PM EDT
When will people understand that you have to protect yourself from BOTH the criminals of the official and unofficial type? America has become a place where the lines between the good guys and the bad are getting pretty fuzzy. Hey just surf the net and you will see what I mean. The police are not obligated to ?protect? any individual man or woman and that is what the Courts say. The people who do not like guns are usually the same officials who will tell you to run out the back door of your home when the bad guys kick in the front door. Or tell a woman she should submit to a rape and cooperate with the slime ball. The bottom line is as a citizen you either have a right to carry a gun and protect yourself or as a resident and you do not. And as a citizen you do not have to ask for ?government? approval to exercise it. I do not know what guys like Bloomberg are crying about as they sold their States out a long time ago by accepting Federal fund for their silly programs. Try and read the New York Constitution, it reads like a corporate charter. No rights here. And to the guy who quoted ?44 private citizens in 31 incidents during the period May 2007 through April 2009." There have been three mass shootings carried out by concealed weapon permit holders?. I wonder how many ?licensed? drivers were involved in fatal accidents in the same time frame. Another rocket scientist?.
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by Burddog7 July 21, 2009 11:26 AM EDT
Some of the people commenting here are failing to recognize the fact that criminals are already carrying guns by the thousands in every state. They don't bother with permits of any kind. At least those who make an effort to obey the laws of their respective states by obtaining a lawful permit to carry should be allowed to travel freely to other states. You can be sure that the criminals already do!

"Hoplophobia"

Firearms instructor Colonel Jeff Cooper coined the word in 1962 to describe a "mental disturbance characterized by irrational aversion to weapons". Cooper employed the term as an alternative to slang terms, stating: "We read of 'gun grabbers' and 'anti-gun nuts' but these slang terms do not (explain this behavior)." Cooper attributed this behavior to an irrational fear of firearms and other forms of weaponry. He stated that "the most common manifestation of hoplophobia is the idea that instruments possess a will of their own, apart from that of their user."

Roger B.
Iowa
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by raybury July 21, 2009 11:01 AM EDT
Wrong Chuckie, the streets of New York only give comfort to criminals, because they know that local law-abiding folks are unlikely to be armed and out-of-staters cannot be at all.
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by lf1952 July 20, 2009 11:54 PM EDT
The data is clear - people with concealed permits almost NEVER commit crimes.
The existing reciprocity agreements have shown NO evidence of causing problems.
All the predictions of shootings after concealed permits became common have been proven false.
In Florida, car-jacking went from common to almost zero with a simple measure - non-resident concealed permits.
This amendment is a NO risk action and will make life much easier on those who carry. For example, when I drive from Norfolk to Pennsylvania next month, I will have to stop, unload my weapon and put it in the trunk going through Maryland. WHAT does that accomplish?
Reply to this comment
by Wolf1944 July 21, 2009 2:13 PM EDT
In Florida alone, over 1400 people with concealed permits have confessed to various crimes. Is that "almost never?"
by robaresea July 20, 2009 11:48 PM EDT
The benefit of the Thune/Vitter legislation is that -- unlike other, competing measures -- it would protect the right of any U.S. citizen to carry out of state (regardless of whether he possesses a permit), as long as he is authorized to carry in his home state. This is important because of states like Vermont and Alaska, where residents can carry concealed without prior approval or permission from the state... in other words, without a permit!
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by richarcm July 20, 2009 11:39 PM EDT
Gun ownership is not meant to be delegated to the states being that it was inscribed in the Constitution as an unalienable and fundamental right. States also do not have the power to take away your freedom of speech. It is protected by the Constitution as well. The fact that we have to fight the rogue states that wish to take away your right to self defense is what we should not HAVE to be doing because the Constitution guarantees that right as fundamental.
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by War919 July 20, 2009 6:23 PM EDT
Do not even get me started on the nonsense Sotomayor will be introducing with her opinions on the matter! There is nothing we can do to stop that trainwreck!
Reply to this comment
by War919 July 20, 2009 6:17 PM EDT
Again from Wolf,

Maybe you would like to start spouting the statistics of crimes that are committed each year with unregistered, stolen, illegally acquired weapons? Perhaps you can relate to us the number of citizens in the area of these tragedies who were unarmed and thus unable to stop a nut job from harming others? If you truly believe that regulating weapons and preventing honest people from owning them will stop the crimes and atrocities that occur in our world you are a sad, delusional, frightened little person.

Maybe we should talk to the survivors of all the various groups of people who have suffered near genocide at the hands of dictators about the issues here. Maybe you can provide some reassurance to those who endured the Khmer Rouge, or those folks from Darfur or Bosnia or Rwanda, etc... Maybe the thousands upon thousands who have died because they did not have the RIGHT or the means to bear arms in defense of themselves and those they loved can take solace from the fact that you are outraged that registered gun owners commit crimes.

The very facts that you are spouting prove that gun control and registration do nothing positive and in fact serve to blind people to basic truths that any primary school child knew a hundred years ago.

Naive children who live in a bubble should keep their petulant tongues, until they learn to see the world around them as it really is, rather than as they wish it would be.
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by War919 July 20, 2009 6:04 PM EDT
Fedup,

I like what they have done, but rules of interstate commerce should never be used to bypass our rights. It is sad that this can only apply to weapons manufactured in that state. It is a great beginning though. The abrogation of our civil liberties must be stopped, and if we lose our 2nd ammendment guarantees, those abrogations will move forward with alarming rapidity.

If only more states and people would realize the simple truth and reality that this speaks to. Rather, they choose to behave in a submissively reactionary way to every left wing idea that ever came out of socialism, fascism and communism to be spouted by today's misguided liberals.

I think it was Thomas Paine who wrote, "The only job of government is to aid in protecting us from others. Government goes astray when it starts trying to protect us from ourselves."
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by ToolMangler1 July 20, 2009 6:03 PM EDT
"Right now you walk down the streets in New York or Nassau County or Westchester County, you can have the solace of knowing that if someone has a gun on them, they've gone through a rigorous background check," he said at a Sunday news conference. "After this law, you can have no such comfort."



What a bunch of ****!!!! No gangbanger will get a permit no matter what state he/she is in... This law changes 'NOTHING" except for those that have gone through the vetting procedure of getting a CWL..
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by Wolf1944 July 20, 2009 5:55 PM EDT
A group called the Violence Policy Center released a study Monday saying that "concealed handgun permit holders killed at least seven police officers and 44 private citizens in 31 incidents during the period May 2007 through April 2009." There have been three mass shootings carried out by concealed weapon permit holders, according to gun control groups.

At http://www.bradycenter.org/xshare/pdf/facts/ccw-crimes-misdeeds.pdf you can see a 27-page document listing crimes and foul-ups by people with concealed carry permits. It includes murders, assaults, drunken shooting, accidental shooting, using guns to intimidate, and so on. Of course, there's the jerk who shot himself in the leg while unloading his gun after he'd been drinking. My favorite is the creep who took his gun to a kid's halloween party and wound up shooting a 10-year-old girl in the stomach (she lived).

And the list is not comprehensive or up to date. It doesn't include Jiverly Wong (killed 13 people and himself in Binghamton, New York), Richard Poplawski (killed three policemen and kept several more pinned down for hours in a Pittsburgh suburb), or John D. Wood (killed his wife, his two children and himself in Heathrow, Florida); all had carry permits.

And it doesn't include Plaxico Burress, the stupid jock who shot himself in the leg in a New York night club; the state of Florida issued him a permit.

And just this month:

TAMPA, Fla. -- Authorities said a bullet from a gun that was accidentally dropped injured a Tampa woman sitting in a bathroom stall.
Police said the bullet hit Janifer Bliss, 53, in the lower left leg. She was taken to a hospital with minor injuries.
Bliss was sitting on the toilet in a hotel bathroom when a woman in the next stall accidentally let her handgun slip out of her waist holster. The weapon discharged when it hit the ground.
Police said the gun belonged to Debra Monce, 56, who has a concealed weapons permit.
The case has been referred to the state attorney's office to determine if any charges will be filed.

When the state gives a permit to any jerk who wants one, it can be dangerous just to relieve yourself.
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by ToolMangler1 July 20, 2009 6:18 PM EDT
Three isn't bad considering the alternatives. Ban all guns and you will have a bigger Blackmarket than exists now because of Drugs and other illegal items......
Then the state will not have an opportunity to see if the person carrying a weapon is a 'jerk' or not.. (talk about "cut your nose to spite your face")????? WOW!!!!
by fedupredneck July 20, 2009 5:31 PM EDT
I think Montana is on the right path-I hope more states follow suit soon. They just put a law into effect about the individual right to keep and bear arms. I can't wait to see how our gov't responds to this one. For all the gun haters and anyone who believes in our right to keep arms-Follow this link and you will see how the law in ALL states should be. http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/billhtml/HB0246.htm
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by War919 July 20, 2009 5:19 PM EDT
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to security of any free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed upon."

A militia is not the National Guard, it is not any of the US Armed Forces, be they Army, Navy, Air Force or Marines. It is a collection of citizens, coming together with their own weapons to create an armed force to deal with trangressions against their liberties be they foreign or domestic.

Read a book!
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by War919 July 20, 2009 5:11 PM EDT
Wolf1944, you obviously hold a bias against weapons and I cannot help but wonder if you have any education in history. Not only the history this country, but of the world at large. You speak of gun worship, but those who would dictate how others live, fear the gun and the power it provides to equalize the playing field and turn their victims into a threat to them.

I suppose you live in neverland where everyone gets along and respects the rights of others so that force is never neceassary to resolve a dispute or ensure live and liberty. Maybe you should move to a totalitarian state and preach your naive view to the many victims who suffer daily because they do not have the means to make a change.

Wake up fool.
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by windrider160 August 9, 2009 10:27 AM EDT
OK, then please provide me with a list of shootings in the last half century that were committed legitimately in the name of fighting government tyranny. Just one. Waiting. <crickets>

Wake up, fool. Americans do not NEED guns to change their local, state or federal government. We do it every couple of years. It's called elections.
by Wolf1944 July 20, 2009 5:03 PM EDT
This amendment is absolutely absurd. Only a gun-worshiping fool would vote for it.
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by War919 July 20, 2009 5:03 PM EDT
The families of the victims at Virginia Tech should recognize a few things. One, illegal firearms are easy to come by and an individual that is intent on acquiring one can do so easily. Thus passing all of the firearm control regulation in the world will not stop nut jobs from committing such atrocities. Two, if even a single sane person had been armed when the incident occurred, he or she would have been able to stop the incident before it went as far as it did.

An unarmed population is easy to take advantage of and if these people have their way the only armed people in our country will be either criminals or the pawns of the government.

This does not even begin to touch on the real reason for the 2nd ammendment in the first place. It was not put in place so that sport hunters would be able to shoot a deer. The primary purpose of the 2nd ammendment is to ensure that the people have the means to stand up against tyranny. Not from foreign powers only, but from an overbearing government that does not heed the will of the people. Keep in mind the bill of rights was written by men who had just purchased their freedom at incredible costs and they were only able to do so because they had access to their own weapons and recognized that this was a key to keeping any government in line.

Further restrictions on "assault weapons" because they are not needed for sport hunting or because citizens are not guaranteed the same weapons as the army is ludicrous. The people had access to the same, and in some instaces superior, firearms(the Kentucky Long Rifle for one) as every standing army of the day.

Hiding in fear and trusting the government, be it in the form of police, military or what have you, to provide for our safety and well being is not only a pathetic but flys in the face of everything that our founding fathers fought and died to secure for us. I wonder how disgusted they would be if they were to see the state of the union in this day and age...
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by Wolf1944 July 20, 2009 5:02 PM EDT
No other state should have to accept a carry permit from Georgia which requires no training or skill testing at all. A blind person could get a permit in Georgia.

And Florida is almost as bad. Florida requires a whole 2 hours of training. And you only have to fire one round. And you don't have to hit the target. And some classes don't even use real guns; they use air guns,

And after that, any jerk in the world has the power of life and death over others.
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by skywackerjim July 21, 2009 3:02 AM EDT
The right to have firearms is guaranteed by the second amendment. No test should be required. Hmm, maybe a class, fingerprints and a background check should be required before you can exercise your 1st amendment right to free speach too Wolf? Ya think?
by Benton09 July 20, 2009 4:46 PM EDT
The Senate is also considering 'Conceal and Carry' owners wear "Go Ahead...Make My Day" T-Shirts when traveling to other states.
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by ToolMangler1 July 20, 2009 6:22 PM EDT
Why ask for someone to take you out, just do it your self and save somebody else the trouble of a prison sentence. I don't "WANT" anybody knowing that I 'carry'!!!!
See all 24 Comments

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