Sotomayor Pressed On Gun Rights, Second Amendment

(AP )
Both questions are timely. In two separate cases before the 2nd Circuit, Sotomayor took a narrow view of the Second Amendment right of self-defense, and her more recent decision is likely to end up before the U.S. Supreme Court later this year.
That case is called Maloney v. Rice, and it addresses whether the Second Amendment can be invoked to strike down restrictive laws against weapons that individual states have enacted.
A three-judge panel including Sotomayor unanimously rejected that view in January 2009, ruling that the Second Amendment "imposes a limitation on only federal, not state, legislative efforts." All members of the panel agreed with this sentiment, but because the opinion was unsigned, it's not clear who wrote it.
"As a result of this very permissive legal standard -- and it is permissive -- doesn't your decision in Maloney mean that virtually any state or local weapons ban would be permissible?" asked Sen. Orrin Hatch, the Utah Republican, during Tuesday's meeting of the Senate Judiciary committee.
During the exchange, which bounced back and forth for a few minutes, Sotomayor said: "Well, the government can remedy a social problem that it is identifying or a difficulty it's identifying (as long as the law) reasonably seeks to achieve that result. In the end, it can't be arbitrary and capricious." (In other words, many anti-gun laws enacted by states might end up being perfectly constitutional, as long as they weren't "arbitrary and capricious.")
Whether Sotomayor's three-judge panel got it right is still being debated even among writers who are generally pro-Second Amendment. Reason.com's Jacob Sullum thinks it's defensible, while George Mason University constitutional law professor Nelson Lund believes she "completely ignored" precedents and noted the Supreme Court said such analysis is "required."
The Maloney case is one of a number of legal attempts to protect gun rights that have arisen after a landmark Supreme Court case last year. In that case, D.C. v. Heller, the justices ruled that the Second Amendment shields an individual right and Washington, D.C.'s gun ban was unconstitutional. But the justices explicitly chose to wait until a future case to decide how state laws would be affected.
Lawyers for Maloney filed an appeal -- also known as a petition for certiorari -- to the Supreme Court on June 26. (The second case is also being appealed from the 7th Circuit, and the third may be heard a second time by the full 9th Circuit before it heads to the high court. Unlike the other two circuits, the 9th Circuit concluded that the Second Amendment does apply to the states.)
In some sense, if Sotomayor adheres to the identical views as the man she's been selected to succeed -- retiring justice David Souter -- not much will change in terms of Second Amendment jurisprudence. Souter disagreed with Heller's 5-4 majority opinion, signing a dissent that said: "The majority's decision threatens severely to limit the ability of more knowledgeable, democratically elected officials to deal with gun-related problems."
But because last year's majority was so slender, Sotomayor's vote on the Second Amendment and the states might matter more than usual. Which prompted Democrats to attempt to portray her rulings as entirely consistent with Supreme Court precedent, while Republicans tried to extract a promise that she would not participate in the current round of post-Heller cases if confirmed.
On Tuesday, Sotomayor said she would recuse herself if ruling -- effectively on whether to overrule herself -- only in the Maloney case.
"My own judgment is that it would seem odd, indeed, if any justice would sit in review of a decision that they authored," she said. "I would think that the judicial code of ethics that govern recusals would suggest and command that that would be inappropriate."
She did not agree, however, to recuse herself if the Supreme Court hears another case involving very similar material from the 7th or 9th circuits. "What I would do in this situation, I would look at the practices of the justices to determine whether or not that would counsel to recuse myself," she said. "I would just note that many legal issues, once they come before the court, present a different series of questions than one addresses at the circuit court."
A few minutes later, Sen. Jon Kyl, an Arizona Republican, quoted a federal law that says: "Any justice, judge, or magistrate judge of the United States shall disqualify himself in any proceeding in which his impartiality might reasonably be questioned." He also noted that Chief Justice John Roberts said he would recuse himself from matters in which he participated while a judge on the Court of Appeals.
What if the 2nd, 7th, and 9th Circuit cases were combined before the Supreme Court, Kyl asked. Sotomayor replied: "It's impossible to say. I will recuse myself on any case involving Maloney. How the other cert is granted, and whether joint argument is presented or not, I would have to wait to see what happens."
The judge also stressed that she understood "how important the right to bear arms is to many, many Americans" and said some of her friends are gun owners and hunters.
Without unequivocal statements from Sotomayor about the scope of the Second Amendment, the outcome of Tuesday's Judiciary Committee hearing is unlikely to change any minds. It won't convince gun rights groups to waver in their opposition to her nomination; nor, on the other hand, is it likely to imperil her chances in a Senate controlled by Democrats.
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See all 147 Comments"Here is always my proposal...you want a right to privacy in the Constitution? Put it in there. Yo uwant to be able to limit arms in the hands of the people, or even do away with them? Then change or abolish the 2nd Amendment. "
Be careful for what you wish. I predict that within Obama's first term he will propose a convention to change the Constitution.
the Hispanics committed a rape murder genocide enslavement that was just something they started in Africa and brought to what was then " America". Sam Houston fought the civil was against their genocidal slave colony and was quagmire by bird flue and had to retreat to Texas where he abolished them. their propaganda campaign to defend this is still in full whitewash mode to this day. we have more pure Germans in the usa than there are in Germany. but they have always spoken English. and we don't have Nazis. (my family is descended from Americans. gram maw was the first modern doctor in history(apothecary))why are Hispanics not taught English and freedom? why "sub minimum wage"? subminimum wage earners seem to supplement their income by auto and health insurance fraud and charitable insolvent loans from their fat cat slave bosses right under out noses. its probably responsible for the economic collapse. if we don't want top end up like Mexico, going from gold eating utensils to bisk, we need to avoid Hispanic culture proliferation. why does this person associate herself with "Hispanics"? she speaks English. has a normal wage job, so why? lets not go don't that road. this is America. . its composed of all cultures. its called the u.s.a. . if she wanted to represent the law of our great nation, she should have said she was American and not pronounced Hispanic as as Hispanics, but innocent or whatever. even if she was born in Mexico. slavery is bad for our economy. Mexico has no almost zero paved roads. almost no streetlights. at night you can clearly see the brooder of the usa and Mexico. the usa is lit, Mexico is pitch black. that why i can't condone the Hispanic proliferation of the usa. slavery is wrong for the usa.
Besides, does anyone believe for even a second that banning guns would be any more effective than banning alcohol or drugs?
Guns protect America, and I will never give them up, period.
Now I have something in common with every single soldier and law enforcement officer in America and as long as we take this oath seriously and obey it there will be nothing to fear.
History has shown that those attending gun fights without guns are usually going to be losers. I can pretty much assure you a quick loss and hasty retreat should you ever even try to collect the guns. Think you have inner city violence wait till every fed up hunter, target shooter and former Vet that risked their life to defend that 2nd Amendment along with the rest takes up positions all over and starts to pop off the gun grabbers be they cops or feds whoever. What you fail to realize is that when you outlaw all guns your will make criminals of all legal gun owners, what more you fail to understand is that at that very moment we will no longer care if we are considered criminals all we will care about is erradicating those of you that would take away our rights our families have fought and died for to defend. If you think any of us will let that happen no matter what law gets passed you really out of your mind. Cops won't go into some hoods now for fear of their lives. Wonder how they will feel if they are charged to try and collect all the guns when they figure out they are now being targeted by EVERYONE that has a gun and refuses to give it up. I have guns I inherited from men that DIED for those rights, do you really think I am just going to hand them over because some African President who probably has never has a family member killed in action of this country and latino Judge say I have to? LMAO Yeah thats going to happen, SURE it is just keep thinking that. Then when you show up at my home I will be sure to give you all my ammo first as I try to kill every last one of you, if I have to go out trying so be it but I will be damned if some foreigners are going to come here and tell me that the 2nd is no longer valid.
It is very important that we learn about the racist roots of American gun control laws,
the same laws that are now being supported by Obama and his administration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nckgyfGbdnU
www.JPFO.org
by Mortarman29 July 15, 2009 9:06 AM EDT
Potus, of course repealing the 2nd Amendment will get NO guns off the street. How silly!
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Yeah, law enforcement would have to do that.
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I'll admit most cops aren't to bright. But I can assure you if you think the local PD is going to be willing to go to each and every home and try to confiscate the guns your crazy. Anyone that even wanted that job would have ot be crazy and odds are you wouldn't live out the 1st week of trying. The only real gun viloence you hear about now is thugs and spree shooters. You want real violence just think about going after every gun out there. Not only can you not collect them and if you could then why not collect the 30 million illegals 1st? More than 200 million guns and your going to get them all, right and I am going to hit the Powerball tonight too! See the main problem with outlawing guns is that just because a piece of paper says they are now illegal isn't going to mean jack to those that think the Constitution trumps any law and will fight to uphold it. The politicians couldn't stand the blood shed that would follow after one week and reverse course. Not to mention if they think they are targets now let them ban guns and see how long they survive. In the end those with the guns make the rules, that will never change. If you don't want to defend yourself fine be a lemming I will defend myself and my family no matter what politician or judge says otherwise. These same people you think will collect guns can't control a few city blocks from gangs that don't even know how to use their guns effectively. What are the odds they will disarm every hunter and target shooter out there that actually knows how to use their weapon? Slim to none. At least we won't have to worry about paying out more government pensions as no one will ever see retirement. Can't wait to see the want ad for that job LMAO.
No. They were addressing the right of the people to own the instruments of the soldier to be able to defend their liberties.
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So does that interpret to mean than whenever we feel our rights are being violated we have the constitutional rights to take up arms?
Does that mean that if a gang-banger tries to bully an old lady out of the seat on the subway, she has the right, because her liberties are being violated, to shoot him dead?
You are a mentally sick man that needs help. Your fear is not others harming you it's yourself. I feel sorry for you that you believe the propaganda that you are dishing out. I believe you should bear arms but people with a sick mind like yours is the problem. Yes i'm proud to be a liberal and proud to live in a blue state but no I went to Catholic school then Nursing
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights, Walter Bennett, ed., Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republican, at 21,22,124 (Univ. of Alabama Press,1975)..)
"What country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." (Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Dec. 20, 1787, in Papers of Jefferson, ed. Boyd et al.)
Can you answer that question logically and in a non-partisan way?
A Constitution is meant to be rigid and defined. It is a list or contract by the States that set up a Federal government. It lists what powers the Federal government has, and includes some rights (the Bill of Rights) that the Federal government can NEVER take away from a law abiding American.
These scholars want to say that, well...that was a long time ago, and things have changed...so we have to change the meaning.
Wrong!!! You dont change the meaning thru a law, or a court decision. You change the meaning by amending the Constitution. That is what the Amendment process is for!!!!!! Otherwise, we wouldnt need it.
On the 2nd Amendment, it is very clear what the Framers wrote. Not just in that amendment, but in the lengthy writings, outlining what they meant.
Is the continuing effort of the states to restrict gun laws a violation of my 2d amendment right?
Do we need militias anymore in this country?
Why the emphasis on weaponizing Americans? Who is behind this thinking?
Should keeping the peace be a defensive position - i.e. having a gun to defend against a violent criminal? Or should keeping the peace be an offensive position - banning guns?
There are so many questions. The issue is not as cut and dry as many of you think.
Added to that, the quotes I posted (plus hundreds more) from the Founders show that they were not intending to be vague. They said exactly what they meant. It is very clear.
"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state government, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people" (Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788)
"The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by any rule of construction be conceived to give to Congress a power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretense by a state legislature. But if in any blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both." [William Rawle, A View of the Constitution 125-6 (2nd ed. 1829)
There is NO absolute RIGHT anywhere that allows us to keep and bear arms. Not in such vague language. Otherwise people would keep and bear bazookas, tanks, missile launchers exct ect.
-------Well, according to the Constitution, those items are allowed to be lawfully owned by law abiding Americans. The definition of ARMS is the "instruments of the soldier." Again, the definitions and prohibitions are not vague. What those that want to ban these things dont want to do is to go thru the heavy lifting of changing the Constitution, as they should. Instead, they ignore its clear meaning.
Is the continuing effort of the states to restrict gun laws a violation of my 2d amendment right?
----------Well, first off, the Constitution's intent is to limit the Federal government, not the States or people. So, if anything is vague, it is if the States are limited by this also. Some precedent has said that the States are limited by the Bill of Rights, but again...the clear meaning of the Constitution says it is there to limit the Federal government, and that all rights and liberties not given to the Federal government by the Constitution, remain with the States and the people.
Do we need militias anymore in this country?
-----------The definition of "militia" is not "national guard." The definition of militia that was used b ythe Founders at the time was every free male citizen. Here is a quote: "A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves...and include all men capable of bearing arms." (Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters from the Federal Farmer (1788) at 169)
Why the emphasis on weaponizing Americans? Who is behind this thinking?
--------------The Founders. They understood that the only person that can defend our liberties is the American people themselves. The Constitution was allowed to be backed up and defended at the barrel of a gun. If not, than it is just a worthless piece of paper. Americans must always be able to defend their homes, their lives and their liberties from anyone that might try to hurt them or take their liberties away. That means ANYONE that might do so. How do you think we gained independence? We decided one day that our government was too tyrannical, too corrupt. So we threw them out at the end of a bayonet.
Should keeping the peace be a defensive position - i.e. having a gun to defend against a violent criminal? Or should keeping the peace be an offensive position - banning guns?
-----------You cannot keep the peace by banning guns. Banning guns just means law abiding citizens dont have them. But again, even if true (but it isnt) that banning guns would lower violence, banning them is unConstitutional. Which means, there is a way to ban them, if the American people want them banned. And it is Constitutional. it is called the amendment process. It is very simple.
A militia is completely irrelevant to modern war.
Wanna make it so Congress can limit the types of guns one possesses? Change the Constitution. Just stop ignoring it!
Again, those that want to find ambiguity, do so because they dont like the Amendment. They dont like what the Founders said. The Founders were very, very clear! Please take even the small list of quotes I have provided and find ambiguity in their statements. You cannot.
It is the same silly notion about this right to privacy that the SC found in the Roe case. There is no right to privact listed in the Constitution. That cannot be found there. Those that wanted it there try to make clear language, unclear...so that they can then force their agenda forward.
Here is always my proposal...you want a right to privacy in the Constitution? Put it in there. Yo uwant to be able to limit arms in the hands of the people, or even do away with them? Then change or abolish the 2nd Amendment.
But dont ignore the Constitution or decide on your own what the meaning is. It makes the Constitution useless.
LA Times June 26, 2008
In 2008 the Supreme Court addressed the 2nd & ruled that citizens have the right to keep & bear arms. I can't imagine that the issue is going to come before the Supreme Court again for quite awhile. At least for another couple decades.
To paraphrase many Obama supporters after the election. (My self included) It's been decided, get used to it.
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