From The Road
October 15, 2008 11:16 PM

Who Is Joe The Plumber?

(CBS)
From CBS News' Maria Gavrilovic:

(HEMPSTEAD, N.Y.) - The star of the final presidential debate was Joe Wurzelbacher, aka "Joe the Plumber." John McCain mentioned Wurzelbacher tonight shortly after the debate began, and both he and Obama said his name more than 25 times during the 90-minute debate. How many times did the word Iraq come up? Six. How many times was the word economy used? 16.

So, what makes Joe the Plumber so special? Well, Obama met Wurzelbacher on Sunday, just shortly after landing in Toledo, Ohio. Before heading to his hotel for an intensive two days of debate prep, the campaign organized a quick stop in Holland, Ohio. The plan was for Obama to walk down Shrewsbury Street, knock on doors, and ask people to vote. For all intents and purposes, it was a photo op.

But then Joe came into the picture, a burly, middle-aged guy with a goatee, who approached Obama and asked him if he believes in the American dream. He proceeded to tell Obama that, after working as a plumber for 15 years, he is going to purchase his own business. The catch was that the business was worth more than $250,000 and Joe asked if he would be taxed more under Obama’s plan.

"I'm being taxed more and more for fulfilling the American Dream,” he said to Obama.

While Obama made several attempts to explain his tax plan, the bottom line was always that Joe would suffer from increased taxes.

“I’m gonna cut taxes a little bit more for the folks who are most in need and for the 5% of the folks who are doing very well - even though they’ve been working hard and I appreciate that – I just want to make sure they’re paying a little bit more in order to pay for those other tax cuts,” Obama told Joe.

“It’s not that I want to punish your success – I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you – that they’ve got a chance at success too.”

Obama left the neighborhood right after the conversation with Joe, admitting that the conversation was good practice for the debate. Little did he know that this chance encounter was going to be the main flashpoint tonight.
Tags:
Joe the plumber
Topics:
Campaign '08
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by judgep3 October 15, 2008 11:42 PM PDT
Obama sure blew that one. He is a socialist for sure and this showed his true colors.
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by lyds3 October 15, 2008 11:57 PM PDT
I was very offended by how McCain defended "Joe the plumber" by saying he shouldn''t have to spread the wealth. I have to share what teeny tiny amount of wealth I have because I''m charged an arm and a leg by those such as Joe. Why shouldn''t he have to share his wealth to help me out? Is McCain defending more than just "Joe the plumber"...is he defending the whole society of the wealthy,the millianares...heaven forbide they have increased taxes and have to buy $20 sunglasses instead of $300 sunglasses.
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by saguilar13 October 16, 2008 12:19 AM PDT
I agree with you lyds3, like Obama said no one likes to pay taxes but what people have to understand is that if we want better and safer schools for our children and better conditions in our neighborhoods, we have GOT to pay taxes. End of story. The President has to do whats in the best interest of the entire country. The majority of people in this country dont make $250,000. The people who dont, deserve a chance to obtain the means to work towards the american dream! The people in this country need to start working as a whole and focus on what brings them together rather than what separates them.
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by dicando October 16, 2008 12:21 AM PDT
what wrong joe, by helping those less fortunate than yourself it''s been charitable.you don''t have to cross the ocean to help the poor of the world you start at home.
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by thurman6030 October 16, 2008 12:21 AM PDT
To lyds3: Oh no you did not just say that! My husband and I got married 25 yrs ago when he was a lowly Marine fighting for this country. We have since worked our butts off and now own a successful business. What makes you think I have to share with you? The one thing that makes me so mad I could spit is people like you. Want to eat? Get a job. Don''t get a job don''t eat! It''s that simple.
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by lyds3 October 16, 2008 12:22 AM PDT
I agree with Obama''s tax plan. The rich have so much extra cash rolling around in there pockets. They should have to take on some of this burden burden the middle class
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by lyds3 October 16, 2008 12:29 AM PDT
to thurman 6030: I have a job, a part time job. I am fresh out of college and a struggling actress in nyc. Even with my job I have to go without most of the time. I have seen my single mom work 3 jobs to give me a roof over my head and food on the table. I would just appreciate some help from the rich. Without Obama''s tax plan, I''m afraid taxes will get so out of control that I will have to pay to work
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by jtinphilly October 16, 2008 12:30 AM PDT
As I understand Obama''s tax plan, families with INCOMES greater than $250K would pay higher taxes. The issue is INCOME - not business REVENUE (and certainly not business worth). So Joe the Plumber would not be paying higher taxes just because his business revenues might exceed $250K per year - only if his net income does.
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by lyds3 October 16, 2008 12:34 AM PDT
thurman6030: You should walk a mile in my shoes before you say such hurtfull things towards "people like me". I am working my butt off....13 hour days on my feet so I can pay the rent and pay for headshots.
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by thurman6030 October 16, 2008 12:35 AM PDT
So you believe someone who makes $250,000 is rich? OK lets see. After paying my employee and my taxes we take home about $50,000. But that will not be the figure that is used by Obama to tax me. He will tax the gross income of my small business which means now that my employee will have to be fired or I will have to cut his hours to part time. How does that help create jobs? Ask anyone who owns a business. They will tell you the same thing. The unemployment rate will sky rocket because in order to pay the taxes we will simply have to do away with jobs.
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by gregg_7 October 16, 2008 12:39 AM PDT
Obama''s true colours were revealed.

Thanks Joe, Obama ''spread the wealth around'' concept is fundamentally against American freedoms.
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by thurman6030 October 16, 2008 12:40 AM PDT
Well, according to my accountant you are wrong. I am a sole propritorship not a corporation. I will be taxed on all of the income. But if I do incorporate Obama will still make sure he gets my money because God knows we cannot lower corporate taxes.
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by thurman6030 October 16, 2008 12:43 AM PDT
I don''t even know why I am wasting my time here anyway. It is nearly midnight and I have just gotten home from my 16 hour day. I am just angry that people believe I should have to share with anyone. I give 20% of my income to church and charity and I believe if I have to give my money away to others I should get to decide where it goes.
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by jtinphilly October 16, 2008 12:43 AM PDT
thurman6030 - not sure what you mean by ''Gross Income'' - do you mean ''Gross Revenue''? Obama clearly states that net income is taxed - not gross revenue.
http://taxcut.barackobama.com/sb_faq.html
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by nooneowesyou October 16, 2008 12:52 AM PDT
Wow... I''m with you thurman6030. By reading this thread I''m fearful a lot of our "peers" are socialists just like Obama. Sad to think that they feel people like you and me should help them when no one''s helping us.
I grew up being taught that life was hard and no one owes me anything! I still believe that to be true.
I commend you for giving to your church and charity! I do the same and I resent that the government thinks they know better how to spend my money than I do.
I also love how people want to tax the very same people they themselves are making rich by going to the movies, buying designer jeans or grocery store tabloids. I bet if they were the rich they''d be offended that the government was trying to tax their "hard-earned dollars"!!!
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by sfbayarea1 October 16, 2008 12:55 AM PDT
The breakdown of that tax cut for 95% of American''s might be a bit different than you think. One third of all American''s already don''t pay taxes, that means 5% of America will essentially send those individuals a check in the mail. As Obama said himself, he wants to "spread the wealth around" in "shared prosperity"... how is this not socialism?
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by sfbayarea1 October 16, 2008 12:58 AM PDT
The breakdown of that tax cut for 95% of American''s might be a bit different than you think. One third of all American''s already don''t pay taxes, that means 5% of America will essentially send those individuals a check in the mail. As Obama said himself, he wants to "spread the wealth around" in "shared prosperity"... how is this not socialism?
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by lyds3 October 16, 2008 1:00 AM PDT
So,I guess I''m not getting an apology from thurman6030 for being rude to me and judging a book by it''s cover. I didn''t mean to offend anyone. I was just speaking up for those who work their butts off and still barely have enough to make ends meat.
Anyway,great job to Obama! He is, in my opinion, the voice of the people
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by jtinphilly October 16, 2008 1:03 AM PDT
nooneowesyou: You said : "Sad to think that they feel people like you and me should help them when no one''''s helping us." Actually Obama has a plan to help small businesses:
* Give all small businesses a $3,000 new jobs tax credit for each additional employee hired in 2009 and 2010.
* Help small businesses raise capital and increase growth by exempting all investments in small and start up businesses from capital gains taxes.
* Offer all small business owners a healthcare tax credit equal to 50% of the premiums paid for employee health benefits each year.
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by Regensburger October 16, 2008 1:56 AM PDT

I can''t relate to Joe the plumber.

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by kathwright-2009 October 16, 2008 2:44 AM PDT
thurman6030, who paid your husband''s salary as a Marine? Taxpayers, that''s who. And his military pension, health benefits, etc? My tax dollars at work. (Yours too.) Thanks to him for his service, but we all contribute to the well-being of the country, and now you get to contribute too. You support our men and women in uniform with those taxes that you''d rather not pay. We''re all in this together, it''s not I''ve got mine and to hell with the rest of you. I''m not sure how you can talk about church and not sharing in the same breath. Yes, it is commendable that you give to your church, but does your church pay for the basic services you receive as a citizen of this country? Or for our "common defense" as the constitution provides?
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by kathwright-2009 October 16, 2008 2:45 AM PDT
thurman6030, who paid your husband''s salary as a Marine? Taxpayers, that''s who. And his military pension, health benefits, etc? My tax dollars at work. (Yours too.) Thanks to him for his service, but we all contribute to the well-being of the country, and now you get to contribute too. You support our men and women in uniform with those taxes that you''d rather not pay. We''re all in this together, it''s not I''ve got mine and to hell with the rest of you. I''m not sure how you can talk about church and not sharing in the same breath. Yes, it is commendable that you give to your church, but does your church pay for the basic services you receive as a citizen of this country? Or for our "common defense" as the constitution provides?
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by wwwtadporg October 16, 2008 3:24 AM PDT
"I served with Joe the Plumber, I knew Joe the Plumber, Joe the Plumber was a friend of mine. You''re no Joe the
Plumber."---Mike the Plumber from NYC
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by grahampoor October 16, 2008 4:15 AM PDT
Joe,
You got your answer. Under $200K tax cut,200-250K no change, over $250K increase.
No one tapped danced, and you should be ashamed of yourself for misrepresenting Obama''s answer. What didn''t you understand? The rest of the answer was trying to help you understand other tax breaks you would get additionally as a bussiness.

I always thought I was above middle class being a programmer in the Silicon Valley and making 95K a year with two kids and my wife staying at home. Who the heck makes $250K and is worried about 4% more tax? Or even stranger who makes 100K and is worrried they will get taxed when they make more?

If we care about taxes and are middle class I think it makes sense to give the guy a try who the "Tax Policy Instute" says will lower your taxes more.
Obama is for lower taxes Joe, the bigger risk is voting for the guy who doesn''t claim he will lower your taxes.
By the way that on that "voted to raise your taxes" score it''s McCain 300+ times Obama 40 times.
They are just counting every time there is a vote for a buget item.
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by gwt305 October 16, 2008 4:50 AM PDT
Obama has said that he will raise taxes on the middle class,then offers a non-existant capital gains tax break for small businesses. Obama has zero business experience and his lack of business understanding is over the top. And this man wants to be the CEO of America? We cannot afford the type of change Obama wants to impose upon us all. The democrats want to tax middle class America to death. Don''t tread on Me!
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by wjw2sq October 16, 2008 4:59 AM PDT
Joe should hire an Accountant to get advice ,how much the business cost , how much is he putting down, whats his mortgage payments, plus all other cost? whats is his projected income? whats is his business plan? etc,etc. Bad time to buy business!!
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by wjw2sq October 16, 2008 5:00 AM PDT
Joe should hire an Accountant to get advice ,how much the business cost , how much is he putting down, whats his mortgage payments, plus all other cost? whats is his projected income? whats is his business plan? etc,etc. Bad time to buy business!!
Reply to this comment
by wjw2sq October 16, 2008 5:01 AM PDT
Joe should hire an Accountant to get advice ,how much the business cost , how much is he putting down, whats his mortgage payments, plus all other cost? whats is his projected income? whats is his business plan? etc,etc. Bad time to buy business!!
Reply to this comment
by wjw2sq October 16, 2008 5:02 AM PDT
Joe should hire an Accountant to get advice ,how much the business cost , how much is he putting down, whats his mortgage payments, plus all other cost? whats is his projected income? whats is his business plan? etc,etc. Bad time to buy business!!
Reply to this comment
by wjw2sq October 16, 2008 5:14 AM PDT
Joe should hire an Accountant to get advice ,how much the business cost , how much is he putting down, whats his mortgage payments, plus all other cost? whats is his projected income? whats is his business plan? etc,etc. Bad time to buy business!!
Reply to this comment
by etrendsplus October 16, 2008 6:10 AM PDT
Bottom line, both Barack Obama and John McCain made Joe the Plumber famous last night. I''m sure he''s going to go to work the next morning and find a TON of messages and lots of new business.
It looks like Joe the Plumber is going to easily clear $250,000 this year.
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by jacopino October 16, 2008 7:49 AM PDT
"Joe the Plummer" is a Republican Party plant.
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by contractoree October 16, 2008 8:12 AM PDT
Joe is certainly buying the business from a Republican plumbing contractor; probably setup long ago by the GOP under layers and layers of hidden agenda.
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by mikolasa October 16, 2008 9:07 AM PDT
I am a small business owner and a CPA. If my business was residential plumbing, I would want to make sure that 95% of my customers had more spending power. In a bad economy where the majority of Americans are strapped, I am going to have a harder time making over 250K. In good times, I work a lot of hours but I have never made 250K in net income, and most plumbers I know don''t either.
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by mattcat25 October 16, 2008 9:30 AM PDT
John McCain in accordance with Republican Conservative Values has probably already established a fictitious business entity S-Corp called %u201CJoe%u2019s Plumbing%u201D that he will divert $Billions of Federal Treasury Funds to!

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by kyblue51 October 16, 2008 10:43 AM PDT
Joe the Plummer was a plant by the McCain campaign, but that is not the issue for me. My question to both candidates is what about the lower middle class ($70k and below)? I have no dependents, no tax breaks and I am working two jobs just to afford my mortgage and to live comfortable and trying to get ready for retirement. The market has beat up my nest egg! What tax breaks am I going to get. I am 3 years from retirement do I have to continue to work just to maintain a decent lifestyle? What does McCain propose for me. He whined all night for a apology; I''m whinning for a break. He doesn''t have to worry about health insurance or his pension. As you can tell I am a Obama supporter. So Joe the Plummer if you are worried about a tax break for a business worth $250,000; and you got that kind of money to invest in the american dream be ready to pay your fair share. I already do.
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by kyblue51 October 16, 2008 10:51 AM PDT
Joe the Plummer was a plant by the McCain campaign, but that is not the issue for me. My question to both candidates is what about the lower middle class ($70k and below)? I have no dependents, no tax breaks and I am working two jobs just to afford my mortgage and to live comfortable and trying to get ready for retirement. The market has beat up my nest egg! What tax breaks am I going to get. I am 3 years from retirement do I have to continue to work just to maintain a decent lifestyle? What does McCain propose for me. He whined all night for a apology; I''m whinning for a break. He doesn''t have to worry about health insurance or his pension. As you can tell I am a Obama supporter. So Joe the Plummer if you are worried about a tax break for a business worth $250,000; and you got that kind of money to invest in the american dream be ready to pay your fair share. I already do.
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by dmh81352 October 16, 2008 11:52 AM PDT
I don''t believe joe the plumber has the money to buy a business that is netting $250,000.00. Maybe grosses $250,000.00 with net profits of under $100,000.00. What joe the plumber needs is a cpa and better business sense. This is the type of individual that can''t grasp simple arithmetic. Either he is just too dumb to get it or was a plant by the republicans. I won''t be calling joe the plumber to repair my plumbing.
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by fayecbs October 16, 2008 12:46 PM PDT
Is Joe a register voter? He is not list in the voter query for the state of ohio.


http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/voterquery.aspx?page=361
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by Retina99 October 16, 2008 1:54 PM PDT
I''m an Obama supporter, but I do hope that he tweaks some of his tax plan for those making over $250K. I work for a small business, and its a C-corporation. We have about 8 employees and make about $2 mil in sales each year, but most of that money goes right back into the business. Being a c-corp, the owner reports the business profits as personal income, since the income tax rate is lower than the corporate rate (apparently a lot of small business c-corporations do this). So he files income tax earnings of well over $250K, even though very little of that actually goes into his personal account, almost all of it goes right back into the business (payroll, rent, goods, etc). The guy is not getting rich, trust me, I''m an hourly employee and I make more than him. (although he doesn''t work much, just 10-15 hours a week.) I''ve worked for a number of small businesses, and ALL of the owners barely worked at all...the small business owner who puts in a lot of hours is a myth in my experience...I''m sure there are some out there but I''ve yet to meet one.

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by sweet_meliss October 16, 2008 2:05 PM PDT
Hey thurman6030, open wide- socialism''s coming.
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by Retina99 October 16, 2008 2:06 PM PDT
Another thing...the republicans certainly seem to be in a dither over Obama''s plan to "spread the wealth around". What the heck do they think has been happening the past few weeks, with nearly a trillion taxpayer dollars bailing out the financial industry? That''s certainly "spreading around" taxpayer dollars, an McCain was all for that. Obama''s tax plan is not redistributing millionaires'' dollars into my pockets, its just going to let me keep more of the money which I myself earn.
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by dee196-2009 October 16, 2008 2:19 PM PDT
Check out http://www.courtclerk.org/cpciv_namesearch.asp
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by dee196-2009 October 16, 2008 2:21 PM PDT
When you do check out "http://www.courtclerk.org/cpciv_namesearch.asp" do a search under his last name and first initial.
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by Retina99 October 16, 2008 3:10 PM PDT
As more info on Joe the plumber becomes available, the more of a comical character he becomes. The company he hopes to purchase makes substantially less than $250K per year, so Joe, as a business owner, would actually benefit from Obama''s tax cuts!

And it turns out that Joe the plumber owes money in back taxes...apparently the guy doesn''t think he should pay any tax! And on top of that, he is on record as being against social security, saying he should be able to invest his money however he wants. So he''s against payroll taxes too.

Hey Joe, if you really want to buy that company, you''re going to need a loan - and you''re not going to be able to get one with tax liens against you! What a bozo.
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by dmcgavock October 16, 2008 4:56 PM PDT
It sounds like Senator Obama didn''t hear Joe right. The business being worth 250,000 doesn''t equate to 250,000/yr in income for Joe.

If Joe earns less than 250,000 whether he works for himself or someone else, he gets a tax break under Obama.

Joe will also get a tax credit whenever his business hires a new worker here in America.

John McCain promises to tax Joe the Plumber for his health care and confirmed that in the debate.
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by aileenhs October 16, 2008 6:02 PM PDT
If Joe the plummer would hire employees like he said he wanted to, his taxable income would drop below $250,000 and he would be eligible for the Obama tax cuts....Just a thought.
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by sulari1245 October 16, 2008 11:27 PM PDT
What is with Senator McCain , all he is left with is Bush Cheney Karl Rove gruff. He can''t even answer without rebuke or blame Sadly there is no seriousness or class in him anymore. He decides to use a tax evading man to represent hard working honest Americans. Mr. McCain is becoming more non presidential and desperate. These are serious times please show some substance. Worry abut us Americans not about how to to bully Obama. It is getting old. we have seen it already with the Bush Cheney Karl Roves. And while you are at it you may want to ask Sarah Palin to apologize to Obama for calling him a terrorist before asking Obama to apologize for Mr. Lewis remarks. She is YOUR running mate , check her credentials and records more thoroughly before pointing fingers on others. That is very non Christian of you Sir. ... And one more thing, Sarah Palin has yet to take care of that baby you all use for your personal political gain. You conveniently bring in the kids when you want to but then blame others for bringing the kids into politics. Take a stance Kids are in or not. Autistic kids and kids with Down''s need parents at home. She is busy buying votes for you Mr. McCain . And truly,she has no idea what it takes to be a really involved in raising kids of special needs , not till they are beyond 6 months old. Stop using her baby as a prize for your political aspirations.
Whatever happened to John McCain?
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by hatenomore-2009 October 17, 2008 1:31 AM PDT
I have one thing to say: McCain = Bad Judgement.
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by hatenomore-2009 October 17, 2008 1:35 AM PDT
It''s time for wealthy Americans to pay their share of taxes. The middle class is losing their shirts. No one wants to pay taxes but someone has to. Even on a state level, you can''t even build roads without taxes. By the way.... I think the war mongers who want this war should be paying for it instead of those who don''t want it. How is McCain going to pay for his never ending war? Think about it!
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