Coop's Corner
November 8, 2009 7:27 PM

When Muslims Commit Violence?

(AP )
Writing in The Atlantic Jeffrey Goldberg has an unremarkable post about the Fort Hood shootings with the quite remarkable headline "When Muslims Commit Violence." Goldberg takes issue with colleagues Megan McArdle, James Fallows and the Atlantic Wire, for ignoring the religion of the alleged shooter, Nidal Hasan, as relevant to any inquiry into motivation. He believes that it is.

"It seems, though, that when an American military officer who is a practicing Muslim allegedly shoots forty of his fellow soldiers who are about to deploy to the two wars the United States is currently fighting in Muslim countries, some broader meaning might, over time, be discerned, especially if the officer did, in fact, yell "Allahu Akbar" while murdering his fellow soldiers, as some soldiers say he did," he writes.

I have no idea what would motivate someone to carry out this heinous crime. Maybe religion was involved. But only days after the shootings how can anyone be sure? On NBC's Meet the Press, the U.S. Army's Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey urged the public not to rush to conclusions and referred to reports about so-called early warning signs about Hasan's behavior as "speculation" based on anecdotes. But what does he know?

Connecticut's Sen. Joe Lieberman went on Fox News Sunday to press for an investigation because, he said, Hasan reportedly "showed signs of being a "self-radicalized, homegrown terrorist." Lieberman may have missed delivery of his Sunday New York Times, which carried word that investigators have tentatively concluded that Hasan, an army Major, was not part of a terrorist plot.

Lieberman did allow that it was premature to get into the question of motivation. No such hesitation, though, from the usual crowd of gasbags and grandstanders who have already settled on a pot boiler narrative.

The predictable Michelle Malkin describes Hasan, who was born in the United States, as a "Muslim soldier." Of course, we're all being kept in the dark because of the "whitewashing of jihad by the (mainstream media.") She goes on: "I’ve said it many times over the years and it bears repeating again as cable TV talking heads ask in bewilderment how all the red flags Hasan raised could have been ignored: Political correctness is the handmaiden of terror."

Malkin also uses the occasion to remind her readers that as far back as 2003 she had been writing about "Muslim soldiers with attitude." (Muslim soliders with attitude?) That's quite a statement. But scroll through the archives to read how she reacted after James von Brunn, an 88-year-old white supremacist, was arrested in the shooting at the National Holocaust Museum. The shooter `wasn’t "left” or “right," she wrote at the time - he was "just plain loony." Fair enough, but if Hasan is a "Muslim soldier," would that make the shooter arrested for murdering abortion doctor George Tiller a "Christian terrorist." After all, there were suspicions that he was involved with a radical Christian movement. No need to email, Michelle, I have a pretty good idea how you'd answer that one.

Meanwhile, Malkin's ideological fellow traveler at Allahpundit cites chapter and verse from a Guardian piece to conclude Hasan was a "typical fundamentalist Muslim. That's quite a statement considering there are more than 1.2 billion Muslims around the world. How many are "fundamentalist" and what does mean - especially in an American context?I don't expect an answer to that question either. Of course, this crowd isn't interested in nuance. They are lucky enough to be endowed with the rare capacity of performing long-range psychoanalyses to offer declarative conclusions long before investigators render their final verdicts.

We should all be so fortunate.



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by noloyalisti November 12, 2009 4:19 PM EST
by RIGHTSTUPIDDUDE November 9, 2009 7:32 PM EST
6 "And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars

Man listen to this slanted religious blather. You could pretty much say anything you want and what it means. No wonder religion is in such trouble in this country. You read it and then beat your head like an empty drum. Scary stuff, this religious blather. What does this have to do with America, the Constitution, out founding fathers of anything?
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by RIGHTSTUPIDDUDE November 9, 2009 7:32 PM EST
6 "And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
8 "All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.
10 "And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.
11 "Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
12 "And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),
16 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
17 "Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house.
18 "And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.
19 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
20 "And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.
21 "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it.
24 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
25 "See, I have told you beforehand.
26 "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.
27 "For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
28 "For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
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by RIGHTSTUPIDDUDE November 9, 2009 7:13 PM EST
I say that every person who is against what our founding Forefathers stood for, leave the country. Go to a country you can support. We don?t need to change our Constitution. We need to change those who do not uphold the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA CONSTITUTION! Yes! In God we trust. The God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob. There is only one God. The true and living God. The creator of heaven and earth and everything above, below and in it.
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by RIGHTSTUPIDDUDE November 9, 2009 7:04 PM EST
GOOD POINT
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by RIGHTSTUPIDDUDE November 9, 2009 6:58 PM EST
There?s one way to solve this Muslim stuff. Get them out of the service and our country. Because of them, we take our shoes off at the airport even if you have nothing but rubber. Just like the Muslims. Right they are all not violent. But their religion allows it. All of them out of the service I say. Bring our troops home and let them continue to kill their own. Those here. Take their business, properties and send them home. . . Every Muslim I see in my opinion they are a potential terrorist. It?s my right dude to say what I want. I am a US born American, Tax payer with a president that needs to be changed. That?s the change we need.
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by Superstarzchef November 10, 2009 9:12 AM EST
That sounds a little like Hitlers plans in WWII. Granted that may sound good on paper and all, but it is seriously not possible and its overall quite a flawed mentality. I've seen this same rhetoric applied here in the USA to the debate about the illegal immigrants. Are you really serious? Do you even hear yourself when you type? The funny thing is, at first, we all may tend to agree with you-at least a large part of me does. I would want to do the same thing with those Muslims, and Mexicans, and Jews, and Poles, and Russians, and N. Koreans, and Chinese, and you get the idea? Soon there wouldn't be anybody left in the USA for you to throw outta here. What we need is those in the Muslim community to STEP UP, and place the ideals of radical jihad on the table, and discard the notion that the "jihadists" are going to "heaven". They themselves, must out those radical indidviduals whom are capable of these atrocities against us, and the USA. The Muslim community as a whole must decry the idea of jihad, and what that ideal represents. I find the Muslim community to be severly lacking in this effort, and their silence is damning. Forget the notion that the presence of American troops in foreign countries for now...The reasonable person here in American needs to understand that with or without the troops overseas, that the fundemental jihadists would/will eventually strike the USA is for what we belive in. Our way of life is under attack. The USA just represents the best "image" od what that way of life is. Until those Muslims can understand that principle, jihadists will continue to attack "us" no matter what. Its sad that the idea that this is not a "War on Muslims" because it really isn't. Yet the sad part is that that is what it must become, otherwise we will not be able to live inpeace and security. Both with al of those "groups" we hate, and the "Americans" who were born here.
by noloyalisti November 9, 2009 2:38 PM EST
This is the US terror campaign coming home to roost. What do we expect when we terrorize four countries to control oil for the big corporations? What do these Christian Fascists in America expect to happen?
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by thebob-bob November 9, 2009 2:22 PM EST
"the usual crowd of gasbags and grandstanders who have already settled on a pot boiler narrative". And it will be a coordinated, right wing press mantra.

They also make a big deal about his "proselytizing and ignore the Evangelical whackos at the Air Force Academy in Colorado insisting that their fighting, not for America but for Christ!
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by smitvict November 9, 2009 1:49 PM EST
I'm waiting for Obama to hit the apology circuit on this one. A muslim who frequented the mosque of 9/11 hijackers (but then again Obama never listened to Jeremiah Wright either), posted to radical islamic websites and shouted "Allahu Akbar" during the attack.

We should be wary of a rush to judgement.
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by kevingallagher November 9, 2009 1:28 PM EST
Hasan should have been shot in his hospital bed upon waking up from his coma. Until an example is made of one of these radical muslims, the domestic terrorism will continue. No price being paid for crime is the chief reason for the continual rise in crime in America. Killing fellow soldiers is the lowest form of treason and treason should be punished with death like it used to be.
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by RIGHTSTUPIDDUDE November 9, 2009 7:33 PM EST
I agree 100%
by Superstarzchef November 10, 2009 9:26 AM EST
No he shouldn't have been. He should be tried and convicted of his TREASON first. In a court of LAW. Then he should be put up against the wall and shot. I wouldn't and don't want to pay to keep this treasonist ******* in prison, with better Medical care then I recieve I might add-for the rest of his natural life. My .55 cent .45 ACP round can quickly end years of expensive imprisonment, free postage, better food, better Doctors then I have to work 80 hours a week to achieve.
by lepbodie November 9, 2009 12:52 PM EST
He was both...don't you get it. A Muslim jihadist and a nutcase. In fact aren't they the same? But then lets not prejudge. Obama might speak out soon and straighten it out...like the Cambridge cop situation where he did jump to conclusions. Could it be that Obama has some sympathies for this "mistreated" army major and thus his silence?
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by RFBodi November 9, 2009 12:40 PM EST
Hmmm. Not consistent with Cooper's post of June 10, 2009, when he seemed happy to paint the abortion doctor shooter as a right-wing extremist. See: Right Wing Extremism: Alive And Well. Guess we only have to avoid jumping to conclusions when it is politically correct to do so, eh Cooper?

-Bob
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by briannorwood November 9, 2009 12:21 PM EST
I am a pretty tolorant guy. But in my opinion, Islam is a gutter religion that is based on hate, oppression and violence.

And don't give me that ********* about how 99% of Muslims are peace loving humanitarians. We saw them dancing in the streets across the globe after 9/11.

Ever since that King of Jackasses, Muhammed walked the earth 1,400 years ago, the cultures of the Islamic nations have virtually frozen in time.

For example, please name one major accomplishment to the betterment of the world that ANY citizen of an Arabic country has been responsible for. You will find none! All contributions to humanity by Arabs ended on the day Muhammed was born!

The idiocy of their religion prohibits freedom of thought and freedom of speech. It preaches rejection of science, subjugation of women, hate, xenophobia and violence.

If I had one magic wish, I would wish to return to Persia in the year 570AD, whereupon I would personally kill the mother of Muhammed before that evil child could ever have been born!
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by displeased November 9, 2009 1:07 PM EST
"For example, please name one major accomplishment to the betterment of the world that ANY citizen of an Arabic country has been responsible for."
by briannorwood

Back in 800 A.D., it was the Islams that preserved the Greek recordings of astronomy and science that the Christians tried to destroy. The Christians destroyed the Library of Alexandria, but luckily the House of Wisdom in Bagdad preserved the Greeks important findings that helped evolve our progress with astronomy today.

"And don't give me that ********* about how 99% of Muslims are peace loving humanitarians. We saw them dancing in the streets across the globe after 9/11."
by briannorwood

Were ALL muslims dancing in the streets or just the ones we have conflict with, such as the Palestinians and Iranians? I only remember them showing Palestinians.

"The idiocy of their religion prohibits freedom of thought and freedom of speech. It preaches rejection of science, subjugation of women, hate, xenophobia and violence."
by briannorwood

Agreed, However, I feel this way about ALL religions. You know, back when the church controlled education and government, it was considered the dark ages. Your comment pretty much sums up the reason.
by rwassel November 9, 2009 10:24 AM EST
My my - what short term memories some of us have! James von Brunn, a suspected member of radical Christian organization, shot up a Holocaust Museum just last year. Where were all the cries of religious terrorism then? Or does it not count because it's OUR religion. Everyone needs to wake up, stop being hypocrites and realize there are extremists in EVERY religion.
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by 50BMS13 November 9, 2009 3:58 AM EST
99%of muslims aren't terrorists but 99% of terrorists are muslim. It definitely needs to be looked at.
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by skyk-2009 November 9, 2009 8:14 AM EST
50BMS13, 99% of Muslims are not terrorist, that part is true but the other part about 99% of terrorist defies reality, especially given the history of this country. I can tell you from REAL TIME experience that the people who bombed and lynched in the 60's and who still plot and plan terror in this nation today ARE NOT Muslim but are Christian. The Reich had better be real careful with this one... they have a VERY VERY LARGE problem under the rug.
by zoopster1 November 9, 2009 2:58 AM EST
...How many are "fundamentalist" and what does (that) mean - especially in an American context?...

I guess it translates roughly to "willing to commit violence in the name of one's religious beliefs". Yeah, that should about sum it up. What's the problem? Does it HAVE to be more complicated??
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by radicalc-2009 November 9, 2009 1:57 AM EST
The christian bible does not teach Jihad or any such doctrine. Christian believers do not believe that we must destroy other nations to advance the kingdom of God or expedite the Messiah's return. Iran's leadership and radical Muslims do. Iran will have nucleur weapons soon and they will not be merciful on the Jews or Americans as we have been toward them. The radical Muslims do not suffer from mental illness, it's is in their interpretation of their teachings to do Jihad and destroy Israel and the Great Satan - America.

This is a dangerous doctrine and we need to know who in our military and our country for that matter believe these things. Dam*n political correctness. My daughter and three grandchildren live at Fort Hood.
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by radicalc-2009 November 9, 2009 1:54 AM EST
The christian bible does not teach Jihad or any such doctrine. Christian believers do not believe that we must destroy other nations to advance the kingdom of God or expedite the Messiah's return. Iran's leadership and radical Muslims do. Iran will have nucleur weapons soon and they will not be merciful on the Jews or Americans as we have been toward them. The radical Muslims do not suffer from mental illness, it's is in their interpretation of their teachings to do Jihad and destroy Israel and the Great Satan - America.
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by physguy88 November 9, 2009 12:17 AM EST
As far as I can tell, a minority in the media is rushing to pin this guy as an Islamic terrorist, while a majority is rushing to pin this on him having gone nuts.

At the moment there's circumstantial evidence pointing to both and no evidence confirming either. Thus _both_ sides are rushing to judgement.

This guy may yet be a Muslim terrorist, or he could have just gone nuts. Wait for the facts, Jack.
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by ubrew12 November 8, 2009 10:01 PM EST
Based on what I've read, I think Hasan acted out of religious faith. And desperation. To prevent these occurances from happening again, we need to look at the desperation factor, because religous faith has countenanced so many atrocities over the years we've stopped counting. (doubt that? Half-a-million Iraqi's died in the last few years because America invaded, and a fair fraction of America neither mourns them or cares, because they were already 'lost to heaven.')

Two factors may play a big role in Hasan's desperation: 1)his being unmarried at 39, and 2)his demotion from a residency at Walter Reed to an imminent deployment at Ft. Hood. Hasan wanted to be married, according to a muslim priest, so why wasn't he? In part, he wasn't because American women are 95% NON-muslim, and he wanted a muslim wife. Councilors and psychiatrists need to look into this factor and think of solutions. How to convince muslim men that non-muslim American women aren't 'off limits'? I don't care what your religion: if you're a red-blooded male who wants a woman, you're going to go crazy without one. Hasan's religion may have played a negative role here in his happiness here on earth.

Hasan also made his opposition to America's involvement in the Mid-East very plain. He was increasingly outspoken about it in recent years. And what was the Army's response? They demoted him from a residency at Walter Reed into a vagabond's life at Ft Hood, of imminent deployment. Whatever barriers Hasan himself placed against romance and personal happiness, losing the stability of a residency at an Army hospital and ending up with no certain future would have put the final nail in the coffin. And, at 39, he would have been running out of options. This may well have tipped an unstable man into lunacy.

At the personal level, whatever the reason for Hasan's lunacy, he should pay the ultimate price for what he did. But, we need to get beyond the obvious religious factor in this investigation, and see the other factors, of a more personal nature, that may have led to this catastrophe, because understanding them may prevent another one. I don't want to take away from those who say having Muslims in the military is a bad idea, however. This would obviously be a very difficult time to be a Muslim in the American military. I don't know how I would respond to the knowledge that America's invasion of a country that had nothing to do with 9-11 resulted in the deaths of at least half-a-million people, including children, whose crime appears to have been their religion, a religion I shared.
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by agrak November 9, 2009 10:53 AM EST
I think I will ignore your first 3 paragraphs but the fourth in particular the last sentence it is impossible to let go. The half a million people's death is a fallacy that was created by the politically correct sections of the society, the human rights activists and people of similar views. There are several sites proving this fallacy to be wrong. In addition the Americans in that war killed soldiers of the Iraqi regime fighting against them. The killings of the civilians including children was committed by fellow Muslims and this act continues today in Iraq and in Pakistan. Muslims are killing in the name of their religion fellow Muslims.
by herbnjosie November 8, 2009 9:05 PM EST
I am (was) watching 60 minutes, and I am so upset with the news,
Steve Croft questions to this man about the computer hacking by enemy forces and this man (cannot remember his name) was telling ,for every one to hear, what terrorist should do to interfer with the electric power system here in America. Why are you doing this. Just telling these bastards what to do to hurt us. Are you completely crazy. Stop telling every possible terrorist what to do. Trust me they know quit a bit already. Now about this military major who decided to kill Americans soldiers in our own country. Why can the government (the military) stop accepting Muslims in the Forces that it be Air Force, Army, Navy, and all the other branches of the services. Now you are newsmen, talk about this rather than the subject like you did this evening.
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