Political Hotsheet
May 4, 2009 12:35 PM

Churchgoers More Likely To See Torture As Justifiable

(PEW)
A Pew Research Center for the People & the Press survey released last week found that those who attend weekly church services are more likely than those who rarely or never attend services to say the use of torture on suspected terrorists is justifiable.

Here's the analysis from Pew's Forum on Religion & Public Life. The poll found that fifty-four percent of those who attend weekly services say the use of torture on terror suspects in order to gain important information can "often" or "sometimes" be justified. That's twelve percent higher than the 42 percent of those who seldom or never attend such services who say the same.

It's important to note that the percentage who says the use of torture can never be justified is roughly the same in both groups, about one in four. See the graphic above.

(CBS)
The poll also suggests that those who are religious are more likely to say the use of torture can be justified than those who are not religious. While roughly one in two Americans say the use of torture can "often" or "sometimes" be justified, a smaller percentage of those who are unaffiliated – 40 percent – say the same. Unaffiliated, for Pew's purposes, are those who call themselves atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular.

White evangelical Protestants, meanwhile, are more likely than the general population to say the use of torture can "often" or "sometimes" be justified - sixty-two percent say so. The figures for white non-Hispanic Catholics and white mainline Protestants (groups like Episcopalians, Lutherans and Presbyterians) are closer to the general population: Fifty-one percent of the former and 46 percent of the latter say torture can "often" or "sometimes" be justified. (Breakdowns of other groups were not offered because the sample size was too small.)

The Boston Globe, which flagged the finding yesterday, notes Andrew Sullivan's response: "So Christian devotion correlates with approval for absolute evil in America. And people wonder why atheism is gaining in this country."

Hot Air, meanwhile, argues that "the results probably indicate political correlation more so than religious influence."

"Evangelicals are more likely to be conservative and conservatives are more likely to support coercive interrogation, ergo evangelicals are more likely to support coercive interrogation; atheists are more likely to be liberal and therefore less likely to support it," writes blogger Allahpundit.

David Neff at Christianity Today – whose analysis was also noted by the Globe – points out that other studies have found similar results. (Last year, a Pew study found that 58 percent of white southern evangelicals believe torturing suspected terrorists can be justified at least some of the time.)

He also notes the differences between the beliefs of the rank-and-file and religious leaders on the issue, pointing out that "key leaders of most evangelical denominations and parachurch organizations have gone on the record against the use of torture."

(CBS/AP)
A CBS News/New York Times poll released last week found that 71 percent of Americans believe that the use of waterboarding and other aggressive interrogation techniques constitutes torture. Such techniques, deployed during the Bush administration, have been halted by President Obama.

The CBS News/NY Times survey also found that while 37 percent of Americans think waterboarding and other aggressive interrogation techniques are sometimes justified, 46 percent think these techniques are never justified.
Tags:
torture ,
poll ,
justified ,
pew
Topics:
Polling
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by May 10, 2009 7:36 PM EDT
this only proves that the science vs. religion controversy is bogus, cuz no religion approves of torture. this is about ideology. irrational illogical unthinking ideology and dependence. i am sure that believers in anything resembling god cringe, feel deep shame and inner disgust over this perversion of basic faith. now we understand how hate and the devil do their dirty work. jesus called it like it is: their temples whitewashed tombs full of death.
Reply to this comment
by jeshuey May 7, 2009 6:43 PM EDT
Well of course Christians who attend church regularly have no qualms about torture.

They endure it themselves every Sunday morning.
Reply to this comment
by apostasyusa May 6, 2009 4:07 PM EDT
Religious people justify many actions against people with the simple the realization that all transgressions are "forgivable".

Simply put, who cares how we treat each other, because in the end, "god" will forgive our sins.

Right?

So sin away!!!
Reply to this comment
by apostasyusa May 6, 2009 3:57 PM EDT
Whew.

The last administration was torture for our country.
Reply to this comment
by bradkt1 May 6, 2009 4:00 AM EDT
As an American, I never thought that I would live to see the day that our Government would claim that indefinite detentions without charges and torture has a legitimate place in what we stand for and do as a country...or that my countrymen would be seriously arguing over whether torture has a place in this country. Make no mistake, we have tried people who waterboarded our soldiers for war crimes in the past...that (and some of the other things that we have done) is torture! No matter what our enemies do, we are better than this...much better! Once we start down this path with non-citizens, it's not that big a step to do this to American citizens. We have already held one American citizen without charges for years (remember the dirty bomb suspect who the public was told was part of a plot to detonate a dirty bomb in a U.S. city and who was never charged with that crime?), without recourse to habeaus corpus and without any way to challenge the Government's actions..and all of this solely on the uncontested word of the Government without a trial!
Doesn't that sound kind of dangerous to you...or do all of you suddenly believe that our Government is right all of the time when it accuses someone of something?
Reply to this comment
by MikeAlike9 May 5, 2009 7:23 PM EDT
Going to church can be torture, and the fact that they demand you believe in their will or your life will perish is a form of mind control- so I can understand why they think torture is an act of God, they worship a dead man nailed to a cross and drink his pretend blood, for Christsake.
Reply to this comment
by MikeAlike9 May 5, 2009 7:18 PM EDT
Is Christianity a cult, or a sect, once removing the cause and justifications, they give themselves as rights, entitled by God?
Reply to this comment
by johndevinejr May 5, 2009 1:29 PM EDT
Indeed it is - usually your argument is the evolution is a theory and therefore not proven fact. Evolution as a theory, however, is based on scientific fact - you simply choose not to believe in science.
Posted by scyouth at 10:07 AM : May 5, 2009


Evolution is a theory in the same way as Electrical Theory is a Theory. Not every single fact about either phenomena is known.

Those who espouse Creationism believe that human beings, birds, horses, elephants, all animals and plants arrived on the earth "abruptly and fully formed".


We know for certain that this did not happen. Only children under the age of 5 and idiots believe this nonsense.


.
Reply to this comment
by johndevinejr May 5, 2009 1:22 PM EDT
I know! How dare people be pro-life! Everyone should be "pro-death" of the unborn correct?? How dare they!

Oh and the prayers in school thing! Such a terrible thing to have prayer in school isn't it!?? Certainly we can see just how much BETTER the school systems have become the past few decades with the continuous school shootings, rise in teen pregnancy, abortion, and misbehaviors and utter chaos since prayer and the Bible were removed...can't we??

How dare they we pray in public! How DARE Constitutional rights be upheld!
Posted by Culture_Warrior_in_09 at 9:39 AM : May 5, 2009

Prayer in the public schools is unconstitutional. Always has been always will be. It is in writing. Thomas Jefferson explained the intent of the First Ammendment in his letter to the Danbury Baptists.
That is where the phrase "wall of separation between Church and State" comes from.
In America we have no use for Christianity as a State Religion.
You think it is ok to have 73 million public school students in every classroom, in every school, in every town, city and state be led in prayer by the teacher who is a government employee and not call it a State Religion.

And the notion that evolution is not a fact is another lie that Christians like to spread.

Most Conservatives favor torture, in spite of it's illegality. Most Conservatives claim to be Christians.
Most Conservatives oppose abortion
Most Conservatives favor war
Most Conservatives favor execution.

No babies are killed during an abortion, only a fetus
In war and execution, human beings are killed.

There is no bigger hypocrite on this planet than the Evangelical Christian

Religion is not the answer, it is the problem.
Reply to this comment
by scyouth May 5, 2009 1:09 PM EDT
Posted by scyouth at 10:07 AM

Just noticed - did we all move to California or is the time wrong here?
Reply to this comment
by scyouth May 5, 2009 1:07 PM EDT
"Evolution" is not based on scientific fact, either.

Posted by Culture_Warrior_in_09

Indeed it is - usually your argument is the evolution is a theory and therefore not proven fact. Evolution as a theory, however, is based on scientific fact - you simply choose not to believe in science.
Reply to this comment
by scyouth May 5, 2009 1:02 PM EDT
You are indeed picking and choosing. You are basically saying that the eye-witnesses who recorded the events of Jesus' crucifixion on the cross in the Gospels were being truthful, that is UNTIL they get to the resurrection part....then you're accusing them of making it all up.
Posted by Culture_Warrior_in_09

As I remember the Bible, nobody eyewitnessed the resurrection, they merely found the tomb empty. And, the Gospels all give different interpretations of what happened after the event. Which one is correct?
Reply to this comment
by scyouth May 5, 2009 1:00 PM EDT
Oh and the prayers in school thing! Such a terrible thing to have prayer in school isn't it!?? Certainly we can see just how much BETTER the school systems have become the past few decades with the continuous school shootings, rise in teen pregnancy, abortion, and misbehaviors and utter chaos since prayer and the Bible were removed...can't we??
How dare they we pray in public! How DARE Constitutional rights be upheld!
Posted by Culture_Warrior_in_09 at 9:39 AM : May 5, 2009

I grew up in England. We had state mandated school prayer every day. I assume they still do. My "High School" even had its' own Chapel. If you read the British papers, violence on the street there is just as common as here (except, of course in the UK we don't have guns so far fewer people wind up dead). This would seem to prove that school prayer is NOT the answer. The main common thread is the ability of the parents to teach right from wrong, (although plenty of bad 'uns come from good homes - the majority do not). By good homes BTW I do not mean exclusively Christian homes, but homes where the parents do a good job.
Reply to this comment
by toldyouso29 May 5, 2009 12:59 PM EDT
-Since you're so against "right wing", can you tell us where Christ supports murdering unborn babies, something the "left wing" promotes by calling it "abortion"?
Posted by Culture_Warrior_in_09

He never mentions it because abortion did not exist at that time. I would suggest that were he alive today (and I mean phyiscally rather than metaphysically) he'd be neutral on the subject. a) he'd be bright enough to know that a zygote is NOT a baby, and thus, until the third trimester you're not "Killing an unborn child." b) He'd recognize that on rare occasions, there is a point where the mother's need outweigh the baby's and c) he'd also realise that abortion is not a good thing and should be minimized by responsible, early education. He'd also wonder why people who decry abortion aren't the ones at the top of every adoption waiting list, as they are indiredtly responsible for unwed births.
Posted by scyouth at 9:47 AM : May 5, 2009


Abortion and infanticide, like prostitution, have existed almost since the beginning. but here is a thought.

Scripture says "chhose you this day whom ye shall serve for ye cannot serve both God and mammon. (mammon means riches) No matter what, with eternity at stake, God gives us free choice.

If God can still give choice with billions of years at stake, what makes us think He would give less free choice for a span of 70 to 100 years? God is pro choice, at least as far as eternal life is concerned, He leaves it up to people and judges them accordingly. I believe if Christ was alive, he would teach against abortion, but in the end, he would advocate choice and leave it to judgment day to be sorted out. During the time of Christ he told followers to not vonform to the word, but to recognize and render unto Caesar what was Caesars and to obey the law of the land except where it did not conform to God's law. where it did not conform, believers were not told to agitate and change laws-- but that individually, they should follow what they believed to be right. fanatics and other right wingers miss this fine point.
Reply to this comment
by Culture_Warrior_in_09 May 5, 2009 12:52 PM EDT
I notice you don't quote my reasoning behind my position as posted. Anyway, dying is a proven scientific fact; resurrection is a fable and not backed up by scientific evidence as evolution is. Hence I'm not really picking and choosing.
Posted by scyouth

You are indeed picking and choosing. You are basically saying that the eye-witnesses who recorded the events of Jesus' crucifixion on the cross in the Gospels were being truthful, that is UNTIL they get to the resurrection part....then you're accusing them of making it all up.

"Evolution" is not based on scientific fact, either. But if you want to believe you came from a puddle of goo, to the zoo, to you, than that's your choice.
Reply to this comment
by toldyouso29 May 5, 2009 12:51 PM EDT
I know! How dare people be pro-life! Everyone should be "pro-death" of the unborn correct?? How dare they!

Oh and the prayers in school thing! Such a terrible thing to have prayer in school isn't it!?? Certainly we can see just how much BETTER the school systems have become the past few decades with the continuous school shootings, rise in teen pregnancy, abortion, and misbehaviors and utter chaos since prayer and the Bible were removed...can't we??

How dare they we pray in public! How DARE Constitutional rights be upheld!
Posted by Culture_Warrior_in_09 at 9:39 AM : May 5, 2009


If you are pro guns, pro war or pro death penalty--you are already pro death--you don't get to make a distinction.

As for prayer in schools or any other thing where you or your group seeks to impose your will on others--you intefere with choice and part of God's test for each person--so yeppers--wrong approach.

"Every man shall be judged according to his own knowledge and works--which means mind your own business for your own soul's sake and leave everyone' else's to themselves.

and now...a lesson in keeping your own word: You've exceeded your quota for religious idiocy with me for today--so say hello to ignoreland for the rest of this day. ..And unlike you, I take lying seriously--so no more posts today for ya.. peanut.
Reply to this comment
by scyouth May 5, 2009 12:50 PM EDT
-Ok, so if the Bible is your source that the Pharisees killed Jesus, then why have you ignored the rest of the Bible where Jesus rose from the grave?

Picking and choosing....right?
Posted by Culture_Warrior_in_09

I notice you don't quote my reasoning behind my position as posted. Anyway, dying is a proven scientific fact; resurrection is a fable and not backed up by scientific evidence as evolution is. Hence I'm not really picking and choosing.
Reply to this comment
by Culture_Warrior_in_09 May 5, 2009 12:49 PM EDT
scyouth

You claimed that Jesus Christ is dead. Then you claimed that the Pharisees killed Him. Then I asked you for your source of this claim, and you said the Bible. So again I ask, why have you CHOSEN to ignore the rest of the Bible, which speaks of Jesus' resurrection from the grave?

You can't pick and choose. If you believe that Jesus was killed on the cross, you can't leave out the rest of the story. Thats' not the way it works.
Reply to this comment
by Culture_Warrior_in_09 May 5, 2009 12:47 PM EDT
Can't ell ya, peanut
posted by toldyouso29

-Of course you can't , because God hasn't given you anything, because you're rejected Him, and are now a heresy going around spreading lies about the Scriptures and leading sheep astray.

The Bible warns Christians about people like you. Thank God for the Wisdom of my LORD And Savior Jesus Christ, the LORD of lords, and King of kings.
Reply to this comment
by scyouth May 5, 2009 12:47 PM EDT
-Since you're so against "right wing", can you tell us where Christ supports murdering unborn babies, something the "left wing" promotes by calling it "abortion"?
Posted by Culture_Warrior_in_09

He never mentions it because abortion did not exist at that time. I would suggest that were he alive today (and I mean phyiscally rather than metaphysically) he'd be neutral on the subject. a) he'd be bright enough to know that a zygote is NOT a baby, and thus, until the third trimester you're not "Killing an unborn child." b) He'd recognize that on rare occasions, there is a point where the mother's need outweigh the baby's and c) he'd also realise that abortion is not a good thing and should be minimized by responsible, early education. He'd also wonder why people who decry abortion aren't the ones at the top of every adoption waiting list, as they are indiredtly responsible for unwed births.
Reply to this comment
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