Abu Ghraib Head: We Were Scapegoated
Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, who ran Iraq prisons in 2003, including the notorious Abu Ghraib prison was insistent that all orders on interrogation practices came from the top down during the Bush administration on CBS News’ The Early Show this morning.
“These soldiers didn't design these techniques on their own…we were following orders,” Karpinski told Harry Smith. “We were bringing this to our chain of command and they were saying whatever the military intelligence tells you to do out there you are authorized to do."
A new Senate Armed Services Committee report finds that early roots of U.S. interrogation practices were being circulated through the CIA and the Pentagon as early as 2002.
The report also ties the interrogation policies of the Bush administration to abuse cases at Abu Ghraib prison as well as to interrogations at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
After the scandal involving Abu Ghraib’s torture practices, Karpinski was demoted to colonel and has since retired.
Karpinski argued that there was a “clear” line between the techniques condoned by top level administration officials and the practices condemned in Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib.
“The line is clear,” she said. “It went from Washington, D.C. From the very top of the administration with the legal opinions through Bagram to Guantanamo Bay and then to Iraq via the commander from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. And the contractors who were hired to do those things.”
Karpiniski was insistent that she and the soldiers prosecuted were “scapegoated” by superiors in the administration.
“Scapegoat is the perfect word and it's an understatement,” she said. “Right now, with the hard, fast facts in those memos, the black and white proof, the administration is suggesting that those operatives should be immune from any investigations or persecution.”
You can watch the interview below:
“These soldiers didn't design these techniques on their own…we were following orders,” Karpinski told Harry Smith. “We were bringing this to our chain of command and they were saying whatever the military intelligence tells you to do out there you are authorized to do."
A new Senate Armed Services Committee report finds that early roots of U.S. interrogation practices were being circulated through the CIA and the Pentagon as early as 2002.
The report also ties the interrogation policies of the Bush administration to abuse cases at Abu Ghraib prison as well as to interrogations at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
After the scandal involving Abu Ghraib’s torture practices, Karpinski was demoted to colonel and has since retired.
Karpinski argued that there was a “clear” line between the techniques condoned by top level administration officials and the practices condemned in Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib.
“The line is clear,” she said. “It went from Washington, D.C. From the very top of the administration with the legal opinions through Bagram to Guantanamo Bay and then to Iraq via the commander from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. And the contractors who were hired to do those things.”
Karpiniski was insistent that she and the soldiers prosecuted were “scapegoated” by superiors in the administration.
“Scapegoat is the perfect word and it's an understatement,” she said. “Right now, with the hard, fast facts in those memos, the black and white proof, the administration is suggesting that those operatives should be immune from any investigations or persecution.”
You can watch the interview below:
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See all 67 CommentsNow, if you want to think about things getting out of hand, think about the last administration and what they determined was not torture and what they determined was no longer disgusting, and the lengths they went to make the Army think it was legal.
Now think about what they did when this information got out . --- They left the troops hang out to dry. That was worse than leaving a wounded soldier on the battlefield. It undermined soldiers trust in those above. It undermined soldiers trust in officers.
Posted by whosaid1
whosaid1... First, thank you for your service. Second, you may want to get your facts straight about the case. Gen Miller (from Gitmo) went to Abu Ghraib and trained the soldiers. He taught them the tactics on how to "take the gloves off" with the "enemy combatants." All of the commanding officers knew exactly what was going on, and don't forget Mr. Rumsfeld's trips. They all condoned what was happening and knew exactly what was going on. Remember, this was the hard site, not just a rinky dink prison.
Many folks there (not just the low-level soldiers) used those pictures as their screensavers on their computers. Hey Mr. Inmate... if you don't give us information, THAT is what will happen to you. ... the leaders WERE leading... they were leading based on the orders and SOPs handed down to them from above.
The activities were widespread, from Gitmo, Afghanistan, and Iraq. How can that be if it was just the actions of a "few bad apples"?
Bush lied to the world. And it is FINALLY (thank goodness) coming out to the public.
Free Graner!
Somehow waterboarding dosn't seem to measure to say being slowly torn assunder on a rack or slow roasted over coals. Now those are REAL torture methods.
The fact is waterboarding is safe! I guess the world has gotten softer. maybe Nick Berg would have something to say about that if he were alive...
Posted by azirine1 at 2:14 PM : Apr 22, 2009
Do you know anything about American History? Are you aware that after WW II Japanese soldiers were tried and executed as war criminals for water boarding POW's? So, in answer to your question, Yes - people DID lose their life over water boarding. Was it wrong for the US to execute those soldiers? Why was it a crime then but, in your opinion, not now?
Posted by norcalruss
You being the smart person you are....you do understand that the President was not in personal contact with the "troops" at Abu Ghraib....there are "many" levels of Command between the White House and the troops....levels of command in which....policies are interperted....added to...deleted from...then acted on. What happen there was clearly wrong....much of the questionable actions were not "torture" as ...is being discussed of late.....but rather degrading....crude actions. This certainly was not one of the Armys finest efforts....A major failure of Leadership at the UNIT level.....
Posted by whosaid1 at 2:31 PM : Apr 22, 2009
True there are many levels, but I think it would be naďve to think, as the top brass wanted us too, that this was only the isolated work of a few lower level enlisted personnel. This is why a special prosecutor is needed to investigate. The investigation done under the Bush Administration was a scam to give them cover and buy them time. If the war was over by the time they left office no one would be talking of Abu Ghraib anymore.
"Waterboard Videos "
And Choked their chickens in Delight !
The same people who post about the honor and ideals of America being violated don't know the first thing about honor, or what it really has taken to establish and defend it.
Take a quick history lesson of our own American Revolution and think about how we won that conflict. As Americans, we embraced means of fighting that were considered barbaric and unseemly at the time. The British were unwilling to adapt 'down to our level' and as a result lost much of their military advantage and inevitably were defeated.
Which side do you represent in this new terror conflict? British or American? Based on the posts, I'd say the majority are British.
The sad fact is that so many Americans are ignorant that their country's history and values are of doing WHATEVER IS NECESSARY to WIN a war.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
The chickens are coming home to roost for the corrupt and criminal Bush administration. The information comes out in drips, like the water torture they administered. The Attorney General?s Office needs to appoint a special prosecutor NOW not later.
Hello people!!! The point is... Bush outright lied to the world to save his butt. He APPROVED torture, humiliation, etc. whatever you choose to call it. He made it LEGAL.
When it came out to the public. He LIED. LIED and let the low level soldiers take the blame and go to jail. GO TO JAIL. We're talking LEAVENWORTH! Solitary confinement. No contact with family. No pay. All rights stripped of them!
Bush is walking around free while these guys CONTINUE to take the blame and serve their jail time.
I don't care if you think torture is right, wrong, or no opinion. The point is. What the soldiers did was follow legal orders. They are in jail for following orders, while Bush is free.
Everyone else is now immune to prosecution for following the SAME ORDERS that the other guys (Graner, etc.) were convicted and jailed for.
Whatever your stand is... you have to see the logic that GRANER and the others deserve the SAME rights as the CIA and anyone else immune to prosecution because they followed orders.
I don't care if you think the torture is right or wrong... but Bush was a horrible "leader" because a leader takes full responsibility for his/her actions. Instead, he LIED. LIED. LIED. And Graner still sits in a jail cell.
Posted by slcadman2001 at 1:29 PM : Apr 22, 2009
How can you say that? I'll tell you this, I don't know what makes you people tick but it ain't American Values! My Dad fought in the Pacific and my Uncle in France. The FACT that they could say with Pride that America does NOT torture and then DEMAND that the leaders of the Third Reich stand trial... Man that is NOT a game. People were Tortured UNTIL death in Hitlers Camps and a commitment was made to the world by a Nation that had ALLOWED it to go on for YEARS before they acted. That Commitment is contained in the Geneva Convention and the UN Convention on Torture. There's also, a law my Dad was proud of, the Uncle is buried in France as a POW, it's the law on Torture. When He saluted the flag HE meant it! Being American AIN'T cheap, it AIN'T easy and it most certainly is not a place for Cowards like you!!
Posted by TeabagBandit at 1:04 PM : Apr 22, 2009
Yep but it's an even more bitter pill to the Vietnam Veterans out here. We sat back and allowed him to USE us and our Division's over that Stupid War, against us to get elected the Second Time. Now THAT'S tough finding out what we've found out in the last few days. I'll tell you what, we OWE a lot to this President, he is OBVIOUSLY going to listen to the people, even though it hurts. The Man already has a MOUNTAIN on his back and relentless hate from the right. All he needs is the Rotten History we created and have to clean up.
Have you noticed that you consider about 70% of this nation to be "Liberal". Are you quite sure you have the education to be posting on here? Anyway what these people did, Bush and Cheney, letting these Troops hang for what they were telling us was Legal? Do you think it's fair to put them in jail?
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