"Face the Nation" transcript: February 19, 2012
Below is a rush transcript of "Face the Nation" on February 19, 2012, hosted by CBS News chief Washington correspondent Bob Schieffer. Guest is Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum. A roundtable with CBS News' Norah O'Donnell and John Dickerson, The Detroit Free Press' Todd Spangler and The Washington Posts' Karen Tumulty
BOB SCHIEFFER: Today on FACE THE NATION, did you hear what Rick Santorum said. He's the man of the hour in Republican politics and he's with us this morning. The latest leader in the Republican race at the top of the national polls and even in Michigan where Mitt Romney grew up. Yesterday, he was feeling his oats. In one twenty-four-hour-period he questioned the President's religious beliefs.
RICK SANTORUM (Republican Presidential Candidate/Former Pennsylvania Senator): It's about some phony ideal, some phony theology, oh, not a theology based on the Bible, a different theology, but none-- no-- no less a theology.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Said prenatal testing is really just the President's way to reduce costs in taking care of the disabled.
RICK SANTORUM: Because it saves money in health care. Why? Because free prenatal testing ends up in more abortions and therefore less care that has to be done because we cull the ranks of the disabled in our society.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And questioned the value of public schools.
RICK SANTORUM: But the idea that the federal government should be running schools frankly much less that the state government should be running schools is anachronistic.
BOB SCHIEFFER: We'll ask him about all of it this morning, then check in with our round table of Norah O'Donnell and John Dickerson, plus Karen Tumulty of The Washington Post and Todd Spangler of The Detroit Free Press.
This is FACE THE NATION.
ANNOUNCER: From CBS News in Washington FACE THE NATION with Bob Schieffer.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And good morning. Welcome, Senator.
You are the leader in the polls this morning. And I have to say you were very busy yesterday. The Associated Press led its story of your appearance in Columbus, Ohio, by saying, quote, "Rick Santorum questioned Barack Obama's Christian values." That was after you lashed out at the President's proposal on energy of all things when you said this.
RICK SANTORUM (Republican Presidential Candidate/Former Pennsylvania Senator): It's not about you. It's not about you. It's not about your quality of life. It's not about your jobs.
MAN: Right.
RICK SANTORUM: It's about some phony ideal, some phony theology. Oh, not a theology based on the Bible, a different theology.
(Crowd applauding)
BOB SCHIEFFER: So, Senator, I've got to ask you. What-- what in the world were you talking about, Sir?
RICK SANTORUM: Well, I was talking about the-- the radical environmentalists. That's why I was talking about energy, this-- this idea that-- that man is-- is not-- is here to serve the Earth as opposed to husband its resources and be good stewards of the Earth. And I think that is a-- a-- is a phony ideal. I don't believe that that's what-- that's what we're here to do. That-- we-- that-- that man is here to-- to use the resources and use them wisely, to care for the Earth, to be a steward of the Earth. But we're not here to serve the Earth. The Earth is not the objective. Man is the objective. And-- and I think a lot of radical-- a-- a-- a lot of radical environmentalists have it upside down.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, how does that translate into some sort of theology that the President's theology--
RICK SANTORUM (voice overlapping): Well, it's-- it's a world view.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --is not based on the Bible. I mean that suggests that he's not a Christian.
RICK SANTORUM: No, I wasn't suggesting that President's not a Christian. I accept the fact that the President is a Christian. I-- I just said that when you have a-- a-- a world view that-- that elevates the Earth above man and-- and-- and says that, you know, we can't take those resources because we're going to harm the Earth by-- by things that are-- that-- that frankly are just not scientifically proven, for example, that politicization of the whole global warming debate, I mean, this is just all-- all-- all an attempt to, you know, to centralize power and to give more power to the government. And-- and it's not questioning the President's beliefs in-- in Christianity. I'm talking about, you know, his-- the-- the belief that-- that man is-- should be in charge of the earth and should have--
BOB SCHIEFFER (voice overlapping): No, but once--
RICK SANTORUM: --dominion over it and should be good stewards of it.
BOB SCHIEFFER: I-- I don't want to just spend the whole program on this, but was your--
RICK SANTORUM (voice overlapping): Good.
BOB SCHIEFFER: --use of the word theology, perhaps, you could have had a better word than that? I mean, don't you know that-- that--
RICK SANTORUM (voice overlapping): It--
BOB SCHIEFFER: --or do you wonder that-- that might lead some people to suggest that you were questioning the President's faith?
RICK SANTORUM: Well-- no, because I've repeatedly said I don't question the President's faith. I've-- I've repeatedly said that I believe the President is a Christian. He says he is a Christian. But I'm talking about his world view or his-- the-- the way he approaches problems in this country and I think they're-- they're different than how most people do in America.
BOB SCHIEFFER: At another stop in Columbus, you took on the Pres-- President on prenatal care for expectant mothers. Here's what you said at this-- in this passage.
RICK SANTORUM: One of the things that you don't know about Obamacare and one of the mandates is they require free prenatal testing in every insurance policy in America. Why? Because it saves money in health care. Why? Because free prenatal testing ends up in more abortions and therefore less care that has to be done because we cull the ranks of the disabled in our society.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Senator, I-- I have to ask you to-- to give some explanation of that. You sound like you're saying that the purpose of prenatal care is to cause people to-- to have abortions, to get more abortions in this country. I think there are any number testing, I think any number of people would-- would say that's not the purpose at all.
RICK SANTORUM: Well, Bob, that's simply not true. The-- the bottom line is that a lot of prenatal tests are done to identify deformities in-- in utero and the customary procedure is to encourage abortions and in fact, prenatal testing that-- that particularly amniocentesis. I'm not talking about general prenatal care. You said prenatal care. I-- I didn't say prenatal care shouldn't be covered. We're talking about specifically prenatal testing and specifically amniocentesis, which is a-- which is a procedure that actually creates a risk of having a miscarriage when you have it and is done for the purposes of identifying maladies of a child in the womb. In-- in which in many cases and in fact most cases a physicians recommend, particularly if there's a problem, recommend abortion. We know, Bob, that ninety percent of Down syndrome children in America are aborted. So to suggest where does that come from? I have a child who has trisomy 18. Almost a hundred percent of trisomy 18 children are encouraged to be aborted. So, I know what I'm talking about here.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, I-- I know you know what you're talking about. I know that well. I know you also had another child that was stillborn. But--
RICK SANTORUM (overlapping): And I was--
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): Didn't you want to know about that, just a minute.
(Cross talking)
BOB SCHIEFFER: Just hold on.
RICK SANTORUM: But what my-- my child was not stillborn. My child was born alive.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right.
RICK SANTORUM: --and he lived two hours.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right.
RICK SANTORUM: And by the way, prenatal testing was-- we had a-- we had a sonogram done there and they detected a problem. And, yes, the doctor said, you know, you-- you should consider an abortion. This is typical, Bob. This is what goes on and in-- in medical rooms around the country. And yes, prenatal testing, amniocentesis does, in fact, result more often than not in this country in abortions. That is-- that is a fact.
BOB SCHIEFFER: I stand corrected on the stillborn. You're absolutely right. I simply misspoke. But, Senator, do you not want any kind of prenatal testing? I mean would we just turn our back on science that this is something that expectant mothers should not go through, that it's best not to know about these things ahead of time? I mean is that what you're saying here?
RICK SANTORUM: No, I'm not saying. Look, people have the right to do it but to have the government force people to provide it free, just as to me, has a has is-- is a bit loaded. There are all sorts of prenatal testing which should be provided free. I have no problem with that if the-- if the insurance companies want to. I'm not for any of these things to be forced. Just let me-- just step back and say I don't believe any of these procedures, anything in insurance should be forced. So let me-- let me just start from there.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Okay.
RICK SANTORUM: But the idea of having, for example, sonograms and other types of prenatal care, absolutely, if-- if I think that is-- that is a wise thing to do. And If I was an employer, I would certainly encourage that. But not all prenatal testing, amniocenteses basically are used for the purposes of identifying children who are disabled and in most cases end up as a result with abortions. It's the bottom line.
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): You're not saying. Let me just ask you, you're not saying that the cause of this, that the President looks down on disabled people, are you? You're not accusing him of that?
RICK SANTORUM: Well, the President supported partial birth abortion and partial birth abortion is a procedure used almost exclusively to-- to kill children late in pregnancy when they've been found out to be disabled. The President voted for a provision that-- that said that children born alive as a result of abortions late in pregnancy who were-- who were otherwise viable should be allowed to be killed by the doctor. I think the President has a very bad record on-- on-- on the issue of abortion and children who are disabled who are in the womb. And I think this simply is a continuation of that idea.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, since you brought all this up, I just wanted to make sure that everybody had a clear understanding of exactly what you meant--
RICK SANTORUM: Yeah.
BOB SCHIEFFER: And-- and how you feel about this. Another thing that raised a few eyebrows yesterday, Senator, you questioned the value of all things at the public school system. Now here's what you said about that.
RICK SANTORUM: But the idea that the federal government should be running schools, frankly, much less that the state government should be running schools is anachronistic. It goes back to the time of industrialization of America when people came off the farms where they did home school or have the little neighborhood school and into these big factories. So we built equal factories called public schools.
BOB SCHIEFFER: So, there you are, Senator. I mean, are you saying that we shouldn't have public schools now? I mean I thought public schools were the foundation of American democracy.
RICK SANTORUM: Yeah, I think, I'm saying that-- that local communities and-- and parents should be the ones who are in control of public education, not the-- certainly not the federal government and to as I said before, as I said in that clip I think the state governments have not done a particularly good job in public education. I think public education should be a dynamic process that's locally run, that works with parents to provide the optimal opportunity for each child in America to get the education that they need, not what the federal government or the state government says that you should have. That's why I refer to it as, you know, going back to the industrialization of America when we had a-- we had a system in-- in this country with industrialization where, you know, you had one car produced. And, you know, you maybe got it in two colors. And-- and we haven't changed public education significantly since then. Every single car on a Detroit line is custom ordered. Why? Because it's designed to meet the needs of the customer. The education system, federally run, state run, is not designed to meet the-- meet the needs of the customer. It's designed for the purposes of the school not the children and the parents who are the customers of that system. And I think we need a dramatic change in that system.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, you know, Senator, if everybody could afford to home school their children that would be one thing but--
RICK SANTORUM: I'm not talking about home schooling. I'm talking about public education, Bob.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, you know, there are little communities where the people couldn't afford to have a public school. And that's why you have states involved in the schools. And there-- there--
RICK SANTORUM: Well, there's one thing the state-- there's one thing for states to-- to help fund public education. It's another thing to dictate and micromanage and-- and create a "one size fits all education" system in states and certainly in the federal government what President Obama is trying to do. What we need is to have the same kind of change and dynamic change in the public school system as we've seen in the economy of this country. Customized. Everybody gets what they need. I have seven children. I can tell you each one of them learn differently. All of them can excel in different settings. And that goes with every-- every American child. And we can do better than a system that one in three children drop out of school. If that is the hallmark, Bob, that you talk about as a-- as a great society, when one of three children drop out of school and a lot of the folks who don't drop out of school still can't read at grade level, that to me is a failure and defending that failure is not something I'm planning on doing which is what the President does.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, what-- what do you do to-- what would you do to fix it, Senator?
RICK SANTORUM: Well, as I said before, first I'd get the federal government out. I would, to the extent possible with res-- with respect to mandates and-- and designing curriculum and the like, I would get the state government out. I think that-- that the parents should be in charge working with the local school district to try to design an educational environment for each child that optimizes their potential. And whether it's in a public school or a private school or a Christian school or whatever kind of-- and whatever kind of setting that is best that the people at the local level can determine, I think that's where we need to go in education. It's got to be a much more dynamic process. We are failing American children. We're failing our society with having these high rates of dropouts and the people graduating without the skills or frankly without the value structure that's necessary to be able to go out and work hard and to be able to-- to produce in our society and to build strong communities. And I think we need some really dramatic changes. And we're not getting that.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Senator, I want to thank you very much for being with us this morning. I had hoped to ask you about some questions about the economy. But, frankly, you made so much news yesterday, out there on the campaign trail, I felt compelled to ask you about that. Thank you so much for being with us.
RICK SANTORUM: Well, I'm-- I'm happy to make news about-- about important issues of the day that obviously don't get talked about a lot.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, thank you so much. We'll be back in just a minute with our political round table.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: And welcome back. Joining us now are Karen Tumulty, the political reporter for The Washington Post, Todd Spangler who is the Washington correspondent for The Detroit Free Press. And our own chief White House correspondent Norah O'Donnell and her partners the dynamic duo here political director John Dickerson. John, you just heard Rick Santorum. What do you make of it?
JOHN DICKERSON (Political Director): Not backing down. And that's what a lot of these conservative voters like about Rick Santorum. You know, at the end, he said he'd-- he's happy to make news about issues of the day that don't or that aren't talked about very much. And that's what he's pitching. I'm thinking about these issues, social issues, all the time. And they get pushed to the side but I'm the one who's going to stand firm and say these things that are unpopular and they get-- create a flap. That's great for his support within the strong conservative base of the Republican Party. His political challenge is how to grow his vote both within the Republican Party to people who want to hear about other issues but also in the general election. Independent voters, what do they hear about? Conservatives like the fact that Rick Santorum makes a strong break with Barack Obama. But what do independents want to hear about? And when they hear that conversation, they may think, gosh, this is a lot of change in a world that's already moving fast. I'm not sure about him as a general election candidate.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Todd Spangler how is this going to play our there in Michigan? What-- what does your newspaper report?
TODD SPANGLER (Detroit Free Press): Well, I-- I-- I think what John said is-- is-- is dead on. Because, frankly, I think that a lot of moderate voters somewhat conservative voters who are the natural constituency for Governor Romney, are kind of not playing in the Republican field. I think they're-- they're not sure they want to be part of this primary which ends up hurting him in Michigan, helping Santorum in Michigan but hurting Romney.
KAREN TUMULTY (Washington Post): You know, it's interesting. I was in Michigan this week at a Mitt Romney event in western Michigan it's near Grand Rapids, very conservative part of the state. The first two people I talked to in the crowd, told me that they had been thinking about Romney but that now they were leaning toward Rick Santorum. And those people brought up exactly these kinds of issues, you know, the contraception decision, the gay marriage decision. I mean, they feel that Rick Santorum is a very clear voice on these issues. Now these same issues could-- could though be a problem in a general election.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, I'll tell you one thing. Nobody has accused Rick Santorum of not being a conservative. Romney is having such a hard time making the case that he really is a conservative, whether he is or not. They don't make that case about Rick Santorum. I know, Norah, the White House took particular offense at what-- at what Santorum said yesterday about the President on the religion thing. I think Robert Gibbs who is the senior advisor said what it was a new low, I believe-- I believe, he said.
NORAH O'DONNELL (Chief White House Correspondent): Right. Once again because Rick Santorum was questioning his theology. Of course, theology is the study of religion so it suggests that Santorum was talking and suggesting that the President is not a Christian. He's sort of disavowed that today. But, look, Rick Santorum has won four states. Mitt Romney has won three states. Rick Santorum is arguably the frontrunner at this point. But the Obama campaign is not switching their focus. There, of course, would be political malpractice in their words not to look at Rick Santorum and study his record, but they still think at end of the day, Mitt Romney will eke this thing out. And you notice the Obama team is not attacking Rick Santorum. Why? Once again, I feel like we say this often. It's because they want Rick Santorum to continue to stay strong and watch this primary last for several more months as the President holds back his official events, raises money, and also focuses on the economy. And we saw something change this last week in our own CBS News/New York Times poll the President hitting fifty percent in his approval ratings, for the first time also in head to head match-ups defeating all of the four potential Republican challengers. So the President may have a little bit of his mojo back. And quite frankly, as the Republicans are distracted on social issues right now and not focusing on President's economic record that may still give the President some more breathing room for a short time.
BOB SCHIEFFER: You know, I-- I'm not one of those that is saying Newt Gingrich is dead. I've already said he's dead twice. Twice he's risen from the dead. And he now has a new infusion of money, I guess, John, so I'm not sure it's a two-man race yet. It might be but I'm not sure it is.
JOHN DICKERSON: It's not. And the best thing that can happen to Newt Gingrich's campaign is that we can declare it's dead. It comes back right after that happens. What we've seen though in the polls is that those conservative voters who loved what Newt Gingrich was saying, they loved what Rick Santorum was saying today on your show. And so that's why the votes are slipping away from Gingrich. Gingrich also in-- in Michigan where we're all paying attention because it's a race that-- that is a fairer race. If Romney doesn't do well he can't say well this had peculiarities about this state. The extent of peculiarities of that state help anyone it's Mitt Romney. Gingrich sort of isn't in that picture. So he's got to wait all the way to Super Tuesday. That's a long wait. Where some of those southern states might be more favorable to him but he does have a debate coming up on Wednesday. And that's where he's done well.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Scott, let me ask you this. This whole business of the bailout. I mean it seems to me the bailout worked, you know, this was started by George Bush. He said last week in a speech, if I had to do it again, I would do it again. People are working. General Motors made this record profit and, yet, both Romney and Santorum have gone out there and-- and come out against the bailout. Is that going to sell out there?
TODD SPANGLER (Detroit Free Press): It's-- it's-- it's going to sell in a-- in a Republican primary the way it looks right now because there's a lot of anti-bailout feeling there and around the country.
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): You're Todd, not Scott. Sorry.
TODD SPANGLER: Indeed. It's fine. But-- but it does hurt him in the general. And, you know, quite frankly, Michigan has gone for a Democratic president in the general since 1988. That's probably not going to change this time with all the Republican candidates, Romney included, saying the bailout was a mistake.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Where do you think this race is going, Karen? I mean I as a reporter, I am hoping, of course, that it goes all the way to the convention because we hadn't had one like that. It will be so much fun to cover. But I say that as a joke. Where do you see this going? It's going to go on for a while it looks like.
KAREN TUMULTY: It is going to go on for a while. And the Republicans will tell you that's not necessarily a bad thing. They say they set up their calendar so it worked-- worked this way. The way the delegates are apportioned would work this way. And they point out that four years ago that a long primary battle actually strengthened Barack Obama for the general election. But what was different about four years ago was the tone of the race. And I don't recall Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama making the kind of very intense personal attacks on-- on each other that we're hearing from the Republicans and more importantly from Republican Super PACs who are just carpet bombing the opposition.
BOB SCHIEFFER: Right up against the clock, Norah. What does the President do next?
NORAH O'DONNELL: Well, the President's campaign is sort of sitting and waiting to when they're going to launch their first official campaign swing. He's already behind essentially when George W. Bush and President Clinton launched their first official campaign. They keep stockpiling cash and focusing on Mitt Romney. And I think the President sees that this laser-like focus on talking about his jobs agenda has benefited them for the-- for the near term.
BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, I'll be back with some final thoughts in just a minute.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: Finally today, we interrupt this program with a bulletin. Congress did something. I mean, really. We're not kidding. Congress actually did something, Friday. A bipartisan coalition of Republicans and Democrats agreed to extend the payroll tax cut for the rest of the year. That after Republicans had vowed for two months to oppose it unless there were huge cuts in government programs. There were no such cuts. Instead, Republican congressman Greg Walden of Oregon said, we needed to get this policy move forward. When you're in the majority, you have to govern. Translation: This is an election year. We were about to get our keisters handed to us on a platter. So the tax cut passed with plenty of Republican support. Now, don't get me wrong. Like the Republicans, I am not much for tax cuts that aren't paid for. Nor do I agree with some Democrats who saw this as ranking in importance with the invention of penicillin. But letting that tax cut expire could have hurt a lot of struggling working people. And when experts say that could have endangered a frail economic recovery, it sounds right to me. But more important, bipartisan cooperation could be contagious, a pleasant experience for both sides which could tempt them to try it again. Who knows? If they got in the habit of working together they might move beyond the stop-gap measures and tackle something of real significance.
Back in a minute.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
BOB SCHIEFFER: And that's all the time for this week. Thanks for watching FACE THE NATION. We'll see you next week.
ANNOUNCER: This broadcast was produced by CBS News which is solely responsible for the selection of today's guests and topics. It originated in Washington, DC.