Full transcript of "Face the Nation" on April 5, 2020
On this "Face the Nation" broadcast moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Dr. Anthony Fauci, Director, National Institute of Allergy & Infectious Diseases
- Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb
- Michael Dowling, President & CEO, Northwell Health
- James Bullard, President & CEO, Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis
- Dr. Luana Marques, President, Anxiety and Depression Association of America (ADAA)
Click here to browse full transcripts of "Face the Nation."
MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington. And this week on FACE THE NATION, with the month of March behind us, Americans prepare for what is likely to be a catastrophic April. The numbers of new cases of coronavirus are staggering. If mitigation doesn't work, the trends are terrifying, and the impact on the economy unimaginable.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: This will be probably the toughest week. Between this week and next week, there will be a lot of death, unfortunately.
MAN: Please maintain social distancing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: With forty-two states and the District of Columbia issuing stay-at-home orders, people are struggling to abide by the rules. Continuing shortages of medical equipment and personnel add to the urgency of the crisis.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: When the brunt of it comes, we want to be ready to hit the area that needs it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll try to get answers to two crucial questions this morning: Is mitigation working? And how are we doing with scientific advances to stop the virus? We'll talk with Doctor Anthony Fauci of the National Institutes of Health, and former FDA Commissioner Doctor Scott Gottlieb. Plus, as the crisis continues to engulf New York City, we'll talk with the head of Northwell Health, Michael Dowling. On the economic front, the pandemic has left at least ten million people out of work so far. We'll look at the new numbers, and talk with the head of the St. Louis Federal Reserve Bank, James Bullard. Finally, as the strain of job loss, health concerns, and isolation take their toll on Americans, we'll ask mental health expert Doctor Luana Marques, how to cope with it all.
(Crowd cheering)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Despite these dark days of America being challenged like never before.
MIKE PENCE: We will get through this, America.
MARGARET BRENNAN: From coast to coast, there is one thought that can unite us all.
It's all ahead on FACE THE NATION.
Welcome to FACE THE NATION. Since last week's broadcast, the number of deaths due to COVID-19 in the U.S. has quadrupled. In the last twenty-four hours, there have been more than thirteen hundred new deaths recorded. The hardest hit areas are by now familiar to you: The Northeast, the West Coast, the South, and some parts of the Midwest, with New York City, Los Angeles, New Orleans, and Detroit heavily impacted. Experts say there is a new wave of so-called hotspots coming, expanding areas in the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, and South, plus, states like Indiana and Colorado. CBS News national correspondent Mark Strassmann reports from Atlanta.
MARK STRASSMANN (CBS News National Correspondent): Good morning, Margaret. The CDC now recommends wearing face masks in public, something cloth, like this bandanna, all voluntary. It's the latest shift in our crisis lifestyle. Roughly ninety-five percent of Americans now live under orders to stay home, a nation in hibernation.
(Begin VT)
MARK STRASSMANN: Fifty states, fifty front lines, and by far, New York has the worst of America's corona contagion.
MAN: All these patients here--
MARK STRASSMANN: Forty percent of the country's cases, and almost half the deaths.
ANDREW CUOMO: We're not yet at the apex, and if we don't stop the spread, then it's going to burn down our own country.
MARK STRASSMANN: Governor Cuomo believes New York City is about a week away from the apex, terrible timing. City hospitals could run out of ventilators within days.
CROWD (in unison): PPE. PPE.
MARK STRASSMANN: Doctors and nurses protested alarming shortages of protective gear--gowns, masks, face shields.
WOMAN #1: Every day when I go to work, I feel like a sheep going to slaughter.
MARK STRASSMANN: In New Jersey, Governor Phil Murphy pleaded for supplies and volunteers.
PHIL MURPHY: Clearly, we're in a world of hurt.
MARK STRASSMANN: Without real-time data, no model can truly predict when any hotspot will peak, but consider the latest trends. COVID-19 deaths quadrupled in both Chicago and Detroit over the last week, and doubled in New Orleans. Overflow corona patients will head to the city's convention center. Like the one in New York, converted into a military field hospital. Across America nearly twenty thousand National Guardsmen reinforce COVID-19 response efforts. And for the Coast Guard it's all-hands-on deck with cruise ships. In PortMiami, Carnival's Coral Princess today will start letting off more than one thousand passengers. Two people died at sea from the virus, another dozen have tested positive.
WOMAN #2: This is so sad that all the cruise lines are here.
MARK STRASSMANN: Right off South Florida's coast, you can see a floating parking lot. In all, one hundred fourteen cruise ships sail in or near U.S. waters. They carry an unknown number of sick people. America is staring at another grim week. New cases and deaths will spike again. Without a vaccine, social distancing remains key because only the virus can predict its course.
(End VT)
MARK STRASSMANN: The CDC has also begun blood testing groups of people. It's looking for signs of previous infection with the virus. And one of the goals: to get a better sense of just how widespread this epidemic really is. Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mark Strassmann reporting from Atlanta.
As most of the world struggles to contain a still-surging pandemic, China is over the worst, and things are getting back to normal. CBS News senior foreign correspondent Elizabeth Palmer reports.
ELIZABETH PALMER (CBS News Senior Foreign Correspondent/@elizapalmer): Margaret, now that the worst is over and there's no sign so far, anyway, of a second wave of infection, China declared a national day of mourning.
(Begin VT)
ELIZABETH PALMER: Nationwide, people stopped wherever they were and joined President Xi and the party leadership to remember what China says was three thousand three hundred and thirty-three victims. That now sounds shockingly low compared to more than thirty thousand deaths in Europe alone. In Spain, a pop-up hospital in Madrid's conference center has a thousand acutely ill patients. The country has the second-largest number of cases in the world, after the United States. But at last, some good news.
(Pedro Sanchez speaking foreign language)
ELIZABETH PALMER: Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez announced the peak is almost over. And in Italy, too, the rates of infection and death have flattened. Grateful shoppers in Rome were back at a local street market this weekend after one of the strictest lockdowns anywhere. By contrast, in much of the developing world, including Brazil, the death toll is mounting fast. There, President Bolsonaro tweeted, "that coronavirus is just a little flu," which so infuriated Rio citizens they beat pots and pans on their balconies to protest his lack of leadership. Here in the U.K., there is still limited freedom of movement. Evidence suggests the infection will peak next weekend. Prime Minister Boris Johnson, himself still sick with COVID-19, begged people to continue to follow the rules.
BORIS JOHNSON (internet video): Please, please, stick with the guidance now.
ELIZABETH PALMER: That is, if you go out for exercise, stay two yards apart and heed the police. One British institution did go ahead this weekend, the Grand National horse race, but virtually. Britons could bet on these computer-generated horses. All the proceeds went to health care.
(End VT)
ELIZABETH PALMER: In a few hours, Queen Elizabeth is going to make a rare special address to the nation, just the fifth time she's done that in almost seventy years on the throne. It's to unify the country and to thank people for everything they've done in this time of extraordinary hardship. Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Elizabeth Palmer, thank you.
We turn now to Doctor Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at NIH. Doctor Fauci, thank you for what you're doing and thank you for making time for us.
ANTHONY FAUCI, MD (Director, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases): Good to be with you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We heard from the President that there will be a lot of death in the coming weeks. Doctor Birx said it's not the time to go to the grocery store or the pharmacy. What should Americans be preparing for?
ANTHONY FAUCI: Well, this is going to be a bad week. Margaret, unfortunately, if you look at the projection of the curves, of the kinetics of the curves, we're going to continue to see an escalation. Also, we should hope that within a week, maybe a little bit more, we'll start to see a flattening out of the curve and coming down. The mitigation that we're talking about that you just mentioned is absolutely key to the success of that. So on the one hand, things are going to get bad and we need to be prepared for that. It is going to be shocking to some. It certainly is-- is-- is really disturbing to see that. But that's what's going to happen before it turns around. So we'll just buckle down, continue to mitigate, continue to do the physical separation because we got to get through this week that's coming up because it is going to be a bad week.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you saying, Doctor, that despite the deaths that we may see, that mitigation is working and that you do have this outbreak--
ANTHONY FAUCI: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --under control?
ANTHONY FAUCI: I will not say we have it under control, Margaret. That would be a false statement. We are struggling to get it under control, and that's the issue that's at hand right now. The thing that's important is that what you see is increases in new cases, which then start to flatten out. But the end result of that, you don't see for days if not weeks down the pike, because as the-- as the cases go down, then you get less hospitalizations, less intensive care, and less death. So, even though, you're getting a-- really improvement in that the number of new cases is starting to flatten, the deaths will lag by, you know, one or two weeks or more. So we need to be prepared that even though it's clear that mitigation is working, we're still going to see that tail off of deaths. So the first thing we want to look for is to see on a daily basis: Are the number of new cases starting to stabilize? We've seen that in Italy. You just mentioned that correctly. We're going to hopefully be seeing that in New York very soon. And that's the first sign of that plateau and coming down.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So when Governor Cuomo says we're-- New York is not yet at the apex, what does that actually mean? And-- and what happens on the other side of that apex?
ANTHONY FAUCI: Yeah, what the Governor is saying is that we are still going to see an increase. The curves that we show at the conferences often is that the epidemic curve goes up, and it hits the top a bit and then it starts coming down. So what Governor Cuomo was saying is that we haven't, yet, reached that peak. And when you do you'll start to see a bit of a flattening and come down. So where we are right now is really approaching that apex. And that's why what he's saying and what we're saying is that this next week is going to look bad because we're still not yet at that apex. And I think within a week, eight days or nine days or so, we-- hopefully, you're going to see that turnaround.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You have flagged that you see this virus now spreading in the developing world and communities where people don't really have the luxuries that we have of working at home. What does that mean for the risk of re-infection here in the United States?
ANTHONY FAUCI: Well, you bring up a very good point, Margaret. Unless we get this globally under control, there's a very good chance that it will assume a seasonal nature in the sense that even if we, and I-- and I hope it's not just if but when we get it down to the point where it really is at a very low level, we need to be prepared that since it unlikely will be completely eradicated from the planet, that as we get into next season, we may see the beginning of a resurgence. And that's the reason why we're pushing so hard and getting our preparedness much better than it was, but, importantly, pushing on a vaccine and doing clinical trials for therapeutic interventions so that, hopefully, if in fact we do see that resurgence, we will have interventions that we did not have in the beginning of the situation that we're in right now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you said yesterday that there are three things you think this country needs to have in place before some of these restrictions are pulled back: the ability to test, to isolate and to do contact tracing. How close are we to meeting those requirements you laid out?
ANTHONY FAUCI: We're not a hundred percent there yet, but the people who are responsible for getting these tests out there, it's very clear that we are much, much better off than we were in the sense that in the next week or two, we'll have an extraordinary amount more capability of doing the kinds of testing that's essential. Because testing is not only important to be able to identify individual cases, isolate them and contact tracing. But we really do need to get a feel for what the penetrance of this infection is in society. That becomes critical when you plan to start to get back to normal or at least take those first steps to getting back to normal. You have to know what's out there. You have to know what you're dealing with. So testing becomes even more important than what we've been speaking about in the past.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you wear a mask when you're not on television?
ANTHONY FAUCI: Well, you know, my-- my life, is-- is-- is pretty different, I-- I stay six feet away from anybody that I can. If I go out, which I really don't do very much because of-- of my life as it is now, Margaret, I would and do. If you go to a situation where you don't have control over that six-foot distance, that you wear a mask. In fact, my wife just went out to get us some food for-- for the morning, and she doesn't wear a mask in the house or when we go out and run. But when she gets into a situation, as I would, where you don't have the power or the control of staying six feet away, I would recommend doing what the CDC as I think appropriately and correctly said. It's-- it's an adjunct. It's an additional way--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
ANTHONY FAUCI: --to help protect you and to have you help protect others.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Doctor, what would you tell our viewers who live in South Carolina, Arkansas, Wyoming, South Dakota, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, Utah, the eight states that do not have stay-at-home orders? What does that do to the White House models of projected deaths? Are they putting the rest of the country at risk?
ANTHONY FAUCI: Yeah. Well, it isn't that they're putting the rest of the country at risk as much as they're putting themselves at risk. So every time I get to that podium in the White House Briefing Room, Margaret, I always, essentially, plead with people to please take a look at those very simple guidelines of physical separation. And they're very, very clear. They're like multiple different ways that say all the same thing. Physically separate. Six feet away. Ten people in a crowd. Avoid any interaction like movies and sports events and theaters and things like that, even in areas where you're not having a big explosion of cases. To the best of your ability do that because this virus doesn't discriminate, whether you're in a small town, in a relatively--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
ANTHONY FAUCI: --secluded area of the country versus whether you're in a big city. And sooner or later, you're going to see a surge of cases.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay.
ANTHONY FAUCI: So I would urge people to please take a look at that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Very quickly, is hydroxychloroquine preventative against this virus? Yes or no?
ANTHONY FAUCI: You know, as I've said many times, Margaret, the data are really just at best suggestive. There have been cases that show there may be an effect--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
ANTHONY FAUCI: --and there are others to show there's no effect.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay.
ANTHONY FAUCI: So I think in terms of science I don't think we could definitively--
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right.
ANTHONY FAUCI: --say it works.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you. Good luck to you, Doctor.
We will be right back with a look at our struggling economy. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The breathtaking speed of this global economic contraction is unlike anything we've ever experienced. And that makes it very difficult to project out what this slowdown will mean. This week there were more than six and a half million new unemployment claims filed by now jobless Americans. Combined with over three million last week, that means nearly ten million Americans have lost jobs in less than a month. We turn now to James Bullard, president and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, one of twelve banks that make up the Federal Reserve System. He joins us from St. Louis. Good to have you with us.
JAMES BULLARD (President and CEO, Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis): Pleasure to be here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You and your team have predicted that forty-seven million Americans could lose their jobs, bringing the jobless rate above thirty percent. It-- it sounds like you're saying the job market is in free fall. Where do you see this happening? What Americans? What industries?
JAMES BULLARD: Yeah, I would push back against the idea of the economy or the job market being in free fall. We're asking people to stay home to invest in national health, and we're asking them to use the unemployment insurance program in order to get the transfers they need to be able to pay bills while they're at home, while they're not able to work because health authorities are trying to get the virus under control. Our estimates, which are available at our blog, St. Louis Fed on the economy blog, suggests the unemployment rate could go anywhere between ten percent and forty-two percent. The thirty-two percent-number is a-- is a compromise in the middle.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that's what I'm asking you about. I mean there's this idea when I speak to business leaders, in particular, that some of those jobs are going to come back, that these are temporary furloughs, that they will be somehow just a switch that flips on and the economy will come back roaring. Isn't that a little bit of a projection of a perfect scenario here?
JAMES BULLARD: Well, I-- I think it can be done. Whether it will be done depends on execution. I thought Congress did a great thing in-- in passing their bill. I thought it was appropriately sized for this situation. The object is to keep everybody whole during the period when you're asking people to not go to their jobs and not go to the shops and-- and, basically, not participate in the economy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
JAMES BULLARD: So in some ways-- in some ways, the-- the uptake on the unemployment insurance program is a good thing because it means you're getting the transfers to the people that are being disrupted by this health-ordered shutdown.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When you talk about transfers, you know, we saw one of the emergency programs launched by the government, this three-hundred-and-fifty-billion-dollar package to help small businesses, supposed to be up and operational this week. But that's not actually happening according to some of the biggest banks like Citi, like they're not even accepting applications right now. What is the real world impact of delays like that? Because the money is needed now.
JAMES BULLARD: It sure is, and we're in the middle of a national crisis. So you would expect some chaos. But we talked to the SBA, the Small Business Administration, on Friday. They actually originated a lot of loans on Friday. I thought it was close to four billion if I have it right. And they are going to have even bigger days on Monday and Tuesday here. I think-- I think there is a lot of potential for that program to be successful.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But what about the size of this rescue package? The President said as recently as yesterday that he thinks there may need to be more money offered to small businesses than what has already been authorized by Congress. Do you think we need a fourth rescue package?
JAMES BULLARD: I felt like this one was well-sized for the situation. I think most of the impact is going to come in the second quarter here, which just started a few days ago. If you think about the U.S. economy with very round numbers, we produce about five trillion dollars worth of goods and services and hence five trillion dollars worth of income every quarter. This shutdown means that we're trying to only produce essential services and this-- the goods and services that can be produced by workers working from home. Surely, that's less than fifty percent of the total economy. So income is going to be down fifty percent. If you said that's two-and-a-half trillion, that sounds like about the number that Congress came up with here. So, in that sense, I think you've got the right amount of resources. The challenge is how are you going to get that to the right people--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
JAMES BULLARD: --that really have been disrupted? And that's the execution risk that we have here. But in principle this is an understandable situation. We do not want people to go back to the basketball games. We do not want people to get on planes while people-- while this disease is ravaging the economy. So we want them to be able to pay bills, keep people whole during this crisis, and then we'll come out on the other side. There's nothing wrong with the economy itself. The economy was actually doing quite well going into this health situation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I-- I know but that has that assumption also built into consumer psychology that people will be sick-- feel safe enough to do the things that they did before. Do you think that this global economy is going to look the same on the other side of this pandemic? Are those jobs actually going to exist for people to go back to?
JAMES BULLARD: You know I have good news for you, Margaret, because we have a-- there is a solution using available technology today to fix the economic part of this problem. The solution is universal testing. What you want is every single person to get tested every day. And then they would wear a badge like they would at a-- after they voted or something like that to show that they've been tested. This would immediately sort out who's been infected and who hasn't been infected. That would help the health care sector. But it would also help the economy because we could interact with each other with a lot of confidence.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we will talk about that surveillance portion of the equation that you just referenced there ahead.
Stay with us. More FACE THE NATION.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Late Friday President Trump continued with his post-impeachment payback. He abruptly fired Michael Atkinson, the inspector general of the Intelligence Community, who told Congress of the whistleblower complaint that ultimately led to the President's impeachment.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll be right back with more FACE THE NATION.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.
Michael Dowling is the president and CEO of Northwell Health, the largest health care provider in New York State. He joins us this morning from Long Island. Thank you for joining us.
MICHAEL DOWLING (President and CEO, Northwell Health/@MichaelJDowling): Thank you so much. Pleasure to be here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I know in addition to your day job, Governor Cuomo had also asked you to help increase hospital capacity across the state. This morning, the defense secretary said that about a thousand military medical professionals will be sent to New York today and tomorrow. Does that solve the problem? Is New York poised for this apex now?
MICHAEL DOWLING: Yes, I think we are-- we're as prepared as we can possibly be. Obviously, if another resource comes in from the federal government, that is great as long as it is a resource that can help us. We have had a situation in New York where we have had federal assistance with the Comfort ship on the west side of Manhattan and the Javits Center. And up to this point, they haven't been able to take that many patients because of the criteria that they use for admission to the facility. So to the extent that they arrive here, to the extent that that can be helpful, obviously, it's all great. We welcome all help, and we appreciate the offers. And if-- if it all works, I think we will all be better off for it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is staffing the chief issue right now?
MICHAEL DOWLING: Well, staffing is always an issue because the severity of the issue-- we've been in this now for a couple of weeks, and the intensive care staff, the physicians on the front lines, we have-- we have to use staff over and over. We have to put staff on overtime. We are getting staff in from around the United States. We're getting staff from upstate New York. So finding the capacity is one thing. You can create the beds. That's the easiest part because you can create an ICU bed or a bed pretty much any place. And we have plenty of beds. The issue then becomes each and every day making sure that you have the right staff with the right skill levels to make sure that you can take care of the patients in the optimum way that you would want to take care of them. So, yes, staff is-- is always a-- an issue, but we are-- we are well prepared at the moment. And we will be well prepared no matter when that apex comes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
MICHAEL DOWLING: Whether it's this week or next week, we will be prepared.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There was a memo from Northwell, from your company published by Politico--
MICHAEL DOWLING: Yeah.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --outlining guidance to medical staff, basically, to help triage and decide who gets a ventilator and who gets to stay on one. Are we close--
MICHAEL DOWLING: We-- we--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --at-- to that point--
MICHAEL DOWLING: We are not--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --of having to make those hard decisions?
MICHAEL DOWLING: Yeah, we are not at that point at all. We have sufficient ventilators for the foreseeable future, and we're obviously getting more supply. And the-- Governor Cuomo has been a major, major quarterback in that effort. The policy that you-- you reference is a draft policy. It is something that we like to prepare for the inevitability. In case that we ever have to do something in the future, you have to have a policy prepared well in advance.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
MICHAEL DOWLING: I don't think we will ever get to that point, but it would be foolish to wait until you have a disaster and then try to develop the policy--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
MICHAEL DOWLING: --during that situation. So this is all preparation. It's just the draft. It's not happening. We hope it never happens. But if it does, we are prepared.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood. If a patient has to go on a ventilator, what is the chance of survival? What are you seeing?
MICHAEL DOWLING: Well, what we're seeing, and I think it's across all areas, all of-- all facilities, that if you go on a ventilator, there is about a twenty-percent chance that you will survive. We have had, obviously, patients survive off ventilators, but it's about a twenty-percent chance. And, as you know, people are on the ventilators a long period of time. But we've had successes. And the other thing I'd just like to mention here, because I think the public sometimes gets-- can get not always the right information. We've had lots of people discharged from the hospital successfully after they have been treated, many after they have been on a ventilator.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
MICHAEL DOWLING: So in our system alone, about three hundred people each and every day after successful treatment for the COVID virus actually go home. That is success. That's what we've got to also be talking about and thinking about and celebrating. That's the good news. And I think good news is what everybody needs right now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What are you telling your-- your hospital workers, the doctors and nurses who-- who work at all of your facilities? Do you have enough--
MICHAEL DOWLING: Well--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --protective equipment for them?
MICHAEL DOWLING: Yes. We have enough protective equipment. And what's amazing here is that at times of crisis like this, charac-- people's character reveals itself. You see extraordinary work being do-- by-- being done by not just doctors and nurses. You see hospitals being retrofitted to put beds where beds never before existed. You see sadness among employees when things don't go well, but you see joy and celebration when there are successes. We are seeing in many ways the best of humanity. I am out in the-- meeting with the physicians and meeting with the staff on the front lines. And I can tell you that we should sit back and say how fortunate we are to have people with that commitment, that compassion, that courage to do what it is they're doing each and every day to protect the rest of us. We are very lucky for the-- with the health sect-- the health care systems that we have. We are very, very, very fortunate. And we should never forget about it. And so when this is all over, and when you can get close to people, eventually, with social distan-- distancing is over with--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
MICHAEL DOWLING: --for everybody out there, if you see a healthcare worker, especially a nurse or a doctor that have been on the front lines--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
MICHAEL DOWLING: --please give them a hug. Don't do it today. Do it later because these are--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Good advice. We'll clap. We will clap--
MICHAEL DOWLING: --special, special, special people.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will clap for now as Doctor Fauci recommended.
MICHAEL DOWLING: Clap for now. Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you. Thank you, Mike. Mike Dowling there of Northwell Health.
And we go to Connecticut and former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb. Thank you for joining us again.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB, M.D. (Former FDA Commissioner/@ScottGottliebMD): Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You just heard the descriptions there from a hospital in the-- on the front lines up in New York. Doctor Fauci was pretty direct. He said it's not going to be an easy week. Do you believe that, as he says, mitigation is working?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Mitigation's clearly working. We're seeing cases slow in the Northeast and the northern states. The Sun Belt is going to be in for a tough week. We're going to see cases in the Sun Belt start to accelerate. I think the New York City health system is going to be brought right to the brink, but they're not going to go over. They're expanding their capacity to keep pace with their surge of demand, really a historic effort. And I don't think they're going to run out of ventilators. They're doing things to convert existing devices into ventilators. And I think they'll keep pace with it. But it's a historic effort that's underway in New York right now, and we should make no mistake, what they're doing to try to keep pace with the increased demand. That demand is likely to peak in the next week or two. So we're going to see a backdrop this week of-- of severe strain on the New York City health care system at the same time that cases in the South--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: --start to accelerate.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What-- but what are some of the-- the lessons of what we're seeing in New York right now? Because we're hearing, and I know you've been tweeting about, some of the unusual things. Younger patients being hospitalized at alarming rates in New York in particular. Why is that happening?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Right. Well, we don't understand. I mean, this infection is not just an infection that's causing severe outcomes in older Americans as was originally, initially put forward. A lot of young people are having bad outcomes, are intubated right now in the ICUs, with no comorbidities, no otherwise-- no risk factors that would predict a bad outcome. There's pregnant women intubated and in hospitals right now. We need to understand that. There's been no publication, serious publication, by the CDC of the collective clinical experience in this United States-- in the United States right now. So doctors are making decisions based on anecdote and their own clinical experiences. There's really no excuse for that right now. We need to start getting literature out right away to inform providers on what's working and what's not. You heard the hospital chief there say about eighty to-- seventy to eighty percent of people who get intubated succumb to their infection. That's what I'm hearing from other hospitals. Doctors are now experimenting with more fluids. They're experimenting with high-flow oxygen. They're experimenting by putting patients in the prone position, meaning laying them on their stomach rather than on their backs when they're intubated. This is stuff that doctors are figuring out from their own clinical experience, but really what we should have is literature published by the CDC that delineates what's working and what's not so doctors--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: --can take a more systematic, data-driven approach to these things.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So tell me about the timeline here. The President said this week that he thinks we should be able as a country to hold mass gatherings like the Republican National Committee in August. Is that too aggressive a timeline for you?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: I think things are going to be permanently changed coming out of this until we get to a vaccine and we can fully vanquish this. We're not going to see a V-shaped recovery or a quick snapback absent the ability to get a highly effective drug in the hands of doctors that can mitigate the risk, either used as a prophylaxis to prevent infection in people who get exposed to this virus or treat people who get the virus and are-- are likely at a high risk of a bad outcome. We can have that kind of drug by the summer and certainly by the fall. I don't see the kind of deliberate, industrial approach, all-hands-on-deck approach, to trying to get that kind of therapeutic. And there are things that are promising right now that could be brought forward more quickly. But absent that this is going to be an eighty percent economy. There are things that are not coming back. People are not going to crowd into conferences.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: They're not going to crowd into arenas. The marginal customer is not going back to movie theaters and cruises and Disneyland. And we need to accept that. Now, what changes that equation is technology. But we need a deliberate approach to getting that technology quickly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you've mentioned technology. The Fed president from St. Louis mentioned technology. Doctor Fauci has mentioned technology and surveillance. Specifically, what does that look like in the United States of America and how far are we from getting that?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Well, the massive surveillance system that we need to detect infection quickly, we're going to have-- we're hopefully going to have in place. We should have that in place. We'll have the tools to do that. So we'll be able to identify cases when there are small outbreaks in the fall and use case-based interventions, basically, isolating people with the infection and their close contacts. But what we also need is a drug that could be used either as a preventative tool, a prophylaxis, as a bridge to a vaccine or a treatment for people who are likely to have a bad outcome with this virus. There are about four or five drugs that I would say are in advanced stages of development that could be available by this summer. We need to place significant bets on each of those drugs and try to pull them through more quickly. This is a time for placing bets. This is a time for--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: --for an industrial approach to this. It's not happening right now. I think it needs to happen. There's still time, but we need to recognize how important that is. Otherwise, these scenarios of this country just snapping back--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: --and being something more than eighty percent economy just aren't going to come to fruition. And we need to prepare for what it looks like when you have a slower economy and more people unemployed in the fall.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I think it's an important point because you're saying there the science is not supportive of the economic theory, that this is just going to be a sharp return to what was normal.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Not unless we have the kind of breakthrough that we should be able to obtain. Like I said, one of these drugs should work. The-- the strategy that looks the most promising are these antibody-based drugs where you basically develop an antibody that can directly target the viruses. Four experienced companies working on this. There's every reason to believe this strategy should work. It's worked in other settings of viruses. We need to start pulling those through more quickly. And there's a couple of antiviral drugs that directly target the virus and block its replication that look effective and maybe used early in the course of the disease will be effective. Nothing's a home run here but we don't need a home run. What we need is a better toolbox, a good medicine cabinet coupled with--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: --with very aggressive surveillance. That could be enough to really change the contours of the risk in the fall and allow people to feel comfortable going back out again.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right. Doctor Gottlieb, always good to talk to you.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Thanks a lot.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When we come back, a look at the devastating financial impact on some of our viewers who are small business owners themselves. Stay with us.
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MOLLY MOON (Small Business Owner/@mollyMoon): This recovery is going to take small businesses years if we're going to recover at all and I'm really afraid that without more stimulus help in another bill, all of our favorite small businesses in our cities and towns might be lost forever.
ANGIE BOWEN (Small Business Owner/@abowenbluesky): My business is a part of the gig economy which means that we work large and small events, such as basketball games, football games or concerts. So as long as people are not allowed to gather together, we have no prospect of making money.
SANGEETA LAKHANI (Restaurant Owner): I've had people that have worked here for seven years, you know? Like these are my kids. Like, I feel responsibility towards them like I do with my own children. These kids aren't sitting on savings accounts, like, these are hourly workers. They're tipped workers. As a parent to not know how to help your children through something like this, it's-- it's heartbreaking, you know? I don't know how to help them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Those are just three stories from business owners who are facing some real financial uncertainty due to the coronavirus crisis. To help us put the experiences in context, we bring in CBS News business analyst Jill Schlesinger, who joins us from Long Island. Jill, you just heard some painful, personal experiences. And we know, even if you're not one of the ten million Americans who just lost their job, this was tough. How should people at home be preparing?
JILL SCHLESINGER (CBS News Business Analyst/@jillonmoney): I think this is one of those back-to-basics moments. You know, you hear these stories. I hear them all the time now. And it's really gut-wrenching. So what do you do with this information? You look at your own personal financial situation. You start prioritizing your bills well in advance of anything bad happening. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau actually has a really good worksheet on its website, ConsumerFinance.gov. And you prioritize. Obviously, you put your food first, and then you go to your shelter, you go to your insurances. And if you have lost your job and you feel thwarted by your state's unemployment insurance platform, keep trying. And also know if you've lost your health insurance coverage, the Affordable Care Act actually allows you a special enrollment period if you've had a loss of income and a loss of a job. So you should absolutely check those things out. And be sure to know that if you ask landlords and utility companies for forbearance or a little breathing room, they are most likely going to give that to you. So don't hide, check out what you need to do, and ask for help where you need it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But for some of the small businesses that we've heard from, they are trying to ask for help, and they can't actually do it because the applications aren't up and functioning at a lot of the banks that will be lending out the money as part of this government program. What are you hearing about whether the money set aside was enough and if this is going to get going soon?
JILL SCHLESINGER: Well, I think that that frustration on Friday was pretty dramatic. I must have gotten a hundred different screenshots from people who had frustrations trying to apply, where the banks themselves were simply saying, we don't have enough information from the government. Then throughout the day, it seemed to get a little bit better. I would say if you're a small business, be very careful. Go through the programs that are available on the SBA website. Then you will apply. And from the perspective of, is this enough, my fear is that the way the program is set up is, essentially, for companies to be able to bring their employees back on their payrolls, and they may not be up and running in two or three months. We got a data out, or a poll out, rather, from the Chamber of Commerce. And when they polled a number of-- of small business owners, twenty-four percent said they are going to be out of business within two months.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Wow.
JILL SCHLESINGER: So we've got to get the money faster to these people. They need help.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Does the economy look the same on the other side of this crisis?
JILL SCHLESINGER: I have been interviewing economists for the last, say, six weeks. And the views have really changed pretty dramatically from week to week. I don't think we will have a-- an economy that is the same when we come out of this. You heard Doctor Gottlieb talk about an eighty percent economy. You've heard different people say that there is going to be winners and losers out of this. What I know in my heart, and I think what most us are experiencing is this is a once-in-a-generation kind of recession. It is going to be worse than the Great Recession.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
JILL SCHLESINGER: We are going to come out of it. But we are very clear in this: this economy and all of us will be changed forever.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jill, thank you for your insight.
JILL SCHLESINGER: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we have more of those stories from business owners on our website at FaceTheNation.com.
And we have this programming note for you: Scott Pelley reports tonight on 60 MINUTES about how restaurants and other small businesses are being impacted, how they are trying to help out others. Scott spoke with New York restaurateur and the founder of Shake Shack, Danny Meyer, tonight on 60 MINUTES.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: Isolation, stress, uncertainty are just a few of the mental health challenges affecting the country during this crisis. Doctor Luana Marques is the president of the Anxiety and Depression Association of America. She also teaches at Harvard and practices at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston. That's where she joins us from this morning. Doctor, it is really hard to think of any kind of comparative event to what we are going through right now. The President has said he expects massive drug use, massive depression, massive numbers of suicide, disease. As a medical professional, is that the mental health impact that you're seeing?
DR. LUANA MARQUES (President, Anxiety and Depression Association of America/@DrLuanaMarques): Margaret, it's really difficult for a lot of my patients and certainly the mental health of the country in general. I think before we even talk about the magnitude, it is important for us to first remind our country that it is okay not to be okay right now. It's important to remind our country that it's okay to have strong emotions. And this is why, as we turn on the news every morning and we're hearing stories of death, of loss of economy, of grief and sadness, we quickly start to feel our heart pounding and we feel the sense of tension, anxiety, and fear. And that is our normal fight or flight response, our biologically adaptive response in moments of tension. We just heard the president and Doctor Fauci talk about the next week being a very difficult week. And so the first thing I want to talk about before we even get to the magnitude of this is to remind our fellow Americans, all of us might have some of this adaptive response, and that's okay. It's just up to a point, eventually, it does become too much.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So what are you telling people to do about that?
DR. LUANA MARQUES: There are three things that I think are really important for us to do, Margaret. The first one is to remember that we are on the state of fight or flight and we need to do anything to cool off our brain. So the three ways that you can do right now if you're sitting at home. The first one is to remember to unplug and to anchor. And what I mean here is give your brain a break from the news a little bit, allow your brain to settle. And I know it's hard to do it right now. So by unplugging, you're bringing down that fight or flight. And then what I encourage you to do is to anchor on something that closes your brain off: walking, meditation, calling a friend. The second thing I urge all of us to do, and this is not optional, is to charge up, is to be able to eat, sleep, and exercise. Those three things are things that we know help our mental health, but also help your immune system. So figure out what you're going to do, how are you going to do it, and why you're going to do it. And anchor on something that gets you going. For me, I've been walking and exercising because it's important for me to stay healthy for my family and for my patients. And, finally, I urge us to be of service. We know that helping others not only makes them feel better, but also ourselves. So let's call an elderly neighbor. If you can afford, send food to those that actually need it or--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.
DR. LUANA MARQUES: --if you're sitting at home and you know how to sew, let's sew masks and help those that need it right now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, what about those who don't have the luxury of staying home? The medical workers, in particular, how do you counsel them to continue going back in and helping people when they themselves may be in distress?
DR. LUANA MARQUES: So some of the-- the techniques I mentioned are important to them, but you're absolutely right, Margaret, they're really suffering. I did a webinar at Harvard Medical School this week for first responders, and I heard questions like, what do I do if I'm about to have a meltdown in the emergency room? How do I cool off my brain after an eighteen-hour shift? And that's not unique to the Harvard community. We've seen this globally. New research coming out from China published in JAMA Psychiatry shows that first-line responders are reporting forty-- fifty percent more depression, forty percent more anxiety, and thirty-five percent are reporting difficulty sleeping. So I'm going to urge them to really figure out how to cool off their brain. One of the suggestions I gave to a friend who is a doctor is if you are in the emergency room and you're rushing around and you're about to go from room A to B, take a moment to breathe. Just thirty seconds. You can cool off your brain. Turn your phone off for a little bit. Transition. I'm going home without listening to the news and rely on your fellow first responders. They are your source of support and-- and they're here for you. And as mental health professionals, we are also here for you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right. Doctor, thank you for your advice.
And for all of you who are at home and might be feeling overwhelmed with emotions like depression and anxiety, you can visit adaa.org for information on coping strategies. You can call the Disaster Distress Helpline at 1-800-985-5990.
We'll be right back.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: That's it for us today. Until next week, be safe. For FACE THE NATION, I'm Margaret Brennan.
