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"Face the Nation" transcript: January 22, 2012

Below is a rush transcript of "Face the Nation" on January 22, 2012, hosted by CBS News chief Washington correspondent and "Face the Nation" anchor Bob Schieffer. The guests are: Republican presidential candidate Newt Gingrich; Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.; former Gov. Haley Barbour, R-Miss.; Wall Street Journal columnist Kelly Evans; and Time Magazine columnist Joe Klein

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BOB SCHIEFFER: Today on FACE THE NATION, Newt Gingrich, yes, Newt Gingrich pulls it off and wins South Carolina and he's with us this morning on FACE THE NATION. Everywhere you looked in South Carolina, there he was.

NEWT GINGRICH (Republican Presidential Candidate/Former House Speaker): What kind of Chik-fil-A sandwich would you like?

BOB SCHIEFFER: And it worked. He won't have to sell chicken sandwiches full time just yet.

NEWT GINGRICH: The order, I want at least is to get your votes today. Thank you.

BOB SCHIEFFER: He crunched the once front-runner in South Carolina Mitt Romney in the upset of the year and hits to the next stop, the win that is back.

NEWT GINGRICH: We're now moving on to Florida and beyond.

(crowd cheering)

BOB SCHIEFFER: Mitt Romney was left to state the obvious.

MITT ROMNEY: We've-- we still got a long way to go.

BOB SCHIEFFER: And it all happened in spite of Gingrich's ex-wife downloading nasty allegations for all to hear.

MARIANNE GINGRICH (ABC News): I-- he was asking me to have an open marriage.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Gingrich turned it around with an attack on the media.

NEWT GINGRICH (CNN): And I'm appalled that you would begin a presidential debate on a topic like that.

(crowd cheering)

BOB SCHIEFFER: South Carolina voters seemed to agree and Gingrich is with us this morning to tell us what comes next.

Then, we'll bring in former Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour and South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham for analysis of a wild political week that have little of everything, including a singing President.

(President Barack Obama Singing)

BOB SCHIEFFER: This is FACE THE NATION.

ANNOUNCER: From CBS News in Washington FACE THE NATION with Bob Schieffer.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Good morning again. And it was a stunner. Newt Gingrich won South Carolina in a landslide. He bet-- beat Mitt Romney who was leading all the polls at the beginning of the week. He got forty percent of the vote. Romney got twenty-eight percent. And the others were far behind. Good morning to you, Mister Speaker. And I'm going to start with the obvious question. How did you pull this off?

NEWT GINGRICH: Well, I think I didn't pull it off. I think the people of South Carolina did. They wanted somebody who is tough enough and bold enough to take on Obama because they really want to beat Obama. They also wanted somebody who was committed to jobs and economic growth because frankly South Carolina is really hurting. And-- and the Obama administration has made it hurt worse with their war against Boeing and-- and the National Labor Relations Board and other things they've been doing. In addition, I think South Carolinians were the first state to really understand how liberal Governor Romney's record was as the governor of Massachusetts. And I think there was-- he-- he lost, I think, probably fifteen or twenty points over the course of the two weeks as people began to realize that he had been pro-choice, pro-gun control, uh-huh, pro-tax increase and a whole range of areas that despite his advertising and-- and-- and his, you know, pretending, it's clear that he was way to the left of South Carolinians.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Mister Speaker, no question he has a lot of money, he has a lot of organization, but I think most people would agree you won this one on the debate stage. I-- I just want to ask you this, do you think in retrospect ABC did you a favor by dumping that interview with your ex-wife outright in the middle of all this?

NEWT GINGRICH: Well, you know, it was so outrageously dishonest. You know, both of my daughters, Kathy and Jackie, signed a letter asking the president of ABC to not release it. And-- and just said it was totally inappropriate. And I think what you saw was that the people of South Carolina agreed that it was totally inappropriate. Uh-Huh, you know, my life in that sense is open. I'm running for President. People can critic-- criticize, question, challenge. But the way they did it was almost as though ABC were an arm of the Romney campaign, deliberately trying to set the stage and rig the game. And what people rejected was that whole premise. And-- and it was particularly powerful in the CNN debate when they picked it up. And-- and people just repudiated. I mean I was amazed how intense the feeling was that night when people just repudiated that kind of trash in a presidential campaign.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Last night Mitt Romney suggested that-- that you're too similar to President Obama--

(Newt Gingrich laughing)

BOB SCHIEFFER: --to run against him. Listen to what he said last night.

MITT ROMNEY: In recent weeks, the choice within our party has also come into stark focus. President Obama has no experience running a business and no experience running a state. Our party can't be led to victory by someone who also has never run a business and never run a state.

(Crowd cheering)

BOB SCHIEFFER: So, this morning he adds to that and says that you're just unsuitable to be the candidate or words to that effect. I guess I get your response here.

NEWT GINGRICH: Well, one or two more defeats and who knows what he's going to say. Look, I have a long level of experience at something called the government of the United States. I have a long period of experience at national defense and national security. I am the only person in this race who has helped balance the federal budget four straight times. I'm the only person in this race who led the effort and negotiated with President Clinton to get welfare reform the first big entitlement reform of our lifetime. I don't know what, you know, Governor Romney may be running for CEO. I'm running for President. President of the United States has to understand the government of the United States. Barack Obama clearly didn't. And candidly I doubt of Governor Romney would. In terms of business experience for the last twelve years, I've run four small businesses. They're businesses that require you to meet a payroll, to have customers, to bring in the money. It may not seem like a big deal to Governor Romney but for millions of small business owners, they'll understand that Newt Gingrich is a small business owner really understands exactly what they go through in a way that I think sometimes big investors and big managers don't understand. So I'm happy to have all the small business owners in American understand that I do know what they have to go through to meet a payroll. And we'll let Governor Romney tout his experience which is very different and at a very different level.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Why do you think he's had trouble getting his message across? You seem to have made some connections with-- with folks down there in South Carolina. But he still seems to be having some problem. Why do you think that is?

NEWT GINGRICH: Look, I think the number one thing people look for in difficult times is authenticity. They want somebody who is what he seems to be, somebody who is comfortable with himself. Somebody who is able to have force in what he's saying or she's saying, because they actually believe it. And I think governor Romney's core problem was that the governor of Massachusetts moderate which by the standards of republican primary voters is-- is liberal. And he can't-- he can't relax and be candid. You know, Romney-care is the precursor to Obama-care. He can't admit that. He vote-- he had tax increases and ranked forty-seventh in job creation, fourth from the bottom. He can't admit that. He was pro-gun control and had a four hundred percent increase on taxes on guns. He can't admit that. He was pro-choice function. And no matter what he said about his views he can-- he led planned parenthood, the largest abortion provider in the country written into law in Romney-care. He appointed pro-abortion judges. Romney-care includes a tax-paid abortion. You know, he-- he can't admit that. So you end up with a guy who is, I think, a very good salesman. Very-- very much wants to sell. But he has a really weak product. And so I think he's been dancing on eggs trying to figure out how to find a version of Romney that will work. And I think the more he dances the more people go, you know, give me the-- you know, I-- I have flaws. I have weaknesses. I've had a long career. But the fact is what you see really is what you get. And I'm prepared to stand toe to toe with Barack Obama and debate him, I think, successfully this fall. And that's the key to beating him with his billion-dollar war chest. And I think in South Carolina began to become really clear that if you want to beat Barack Obama, that Newt Gingrich is the only person who has the background, the experience and the-- and the-- the ability to get on the stage and drive home a conservative message with authenticity.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Are you willing to go so far as to say he's just a fake or a phony?

NEWT GINGRICH: Well, look, you-- you and I went down this road once before, Bob, I will let you as a very sophisticated senior analyst and reporter draw your conclusions. But if you take what I just said, which are facts, it-- it does show you why-- why he has-- he keeps sort of bouncing around trying to find a message. You know, I don't do that. I've-- I've had the same message for many, many years. Re-- Reagan once said that he didn't change with the world came around. I have been saying things like this. I've written twenty-four books. I've given lots of speeches. Callista and I have made seven documentary films. It's all the same pattern. It's all the same core beliefs. We believe in America. We believe in free enter enterprise. We believe in national security. We believe in core values that have made this country great. None of that has changed in my career which goes back, you know, for almost forty years.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Mister Speaker, I have got a proposal for you. We're going to be in Miami next week broadcasting FACE THE NATION, a special one-hour edition. If I could get Mitt Romney to come sit down at the table with us, would you come on and debate him for the full hour just the two of you?

NEWT GINGRICH: Is this-- will this be your first hour-long FACE THE NATION?

BOB SCHIEFFER: Yes, Sir.

NEWT GINGRICH: Well, listen, I-- I have to consult with-- with R.C. Hammond as you know. But my-- I-- I will tell you I personally would like to do that. I have a hunch that if you can get Governor Romney to agree the three of us to sit down together next Sunday. It will be prefect and I suspect we'd be happy to come and do it.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, we'll look for you then. And I'll call him up right now. Thank you very much, Mister Speaker.

NEWT GINGRICH: Thank you.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Congratulations.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. So now we turn to two of the most astute analysts of Republican politics in the history of politics. Former Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour and South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham. Well, Senator Graham and Governor Barbour, don't you agree that that would make a wonderful debate if we could get the two of them to sit down next Sunday morning? Senator Graham?

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-South Carolina): I agree that you're a danger-- I think you're a dangerous man on TV. I think you've just sealed the deal there. That would be a wonderful debate on FACE THE NATION, and I would tune in and watch. I hope I do it.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right, if you can help me and call Governor Romney, I think we can make this work. Senator Graham, what happened down there? Did-- is-- is South Carolina just too conservative for Mitt Romney or is there a problem here that goes deeper than that with his campaign?

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: John McCain won, Bob Dole won. Not the most conservative people in the world but good-- good Americans who impressed South Carolina in sobriety, Newt won. The debate Monday night in Myrtle Beach was probably the best explanation of conservatism in a bold fashion coming from Newt Gingrich I've heard in decades. And Newt not only won the debates. He convinced people that he could beat Barack Obama and electability was the issue before South Carolina primary, during the primary and on voting day. And Newt won. He's the guy that we saw forty percent of us, the best to go into the arena and beat Barack Obama. Governor Romney did fine. Rick Perry did very well. He had some stumbles by Romney. We had six hundred thousand people vote. The largest Republican primary in history occurred yesterday. And people were energized. They were looking close and they picked Newt. This was Newt winning more than anybody else losing.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Are you ready to endorse him that sound, those were very complimentary words.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, here's what I am willing to say. That Newt Gingrich has changed a lot in a positive way. This immigration issue is tough for our party, tough for our country. And Newt is putting on the table an idea that once you secure your borders and control who gets the job and you have to deal with the twelve million, we're going to have a rational system, most of them will have to go back. But if you've had a lady who has been here twenty-five or thirty years and has done nothing but be part of the community, committed an immigration violation, we're going to give her a second look. She'll have to learn English, pay a fine. She can have legal status, not citizenship. That's a-- that's a way of thinking that I think will help our party because she may have a young son or grandson who is in the Marines in Afghanistan. And I don't want a party who says to Sergeant Gonzalez, congratulations, you just won the Purple Heart. Unfortunately, we're going to have to deport your grandmother. I hope you get home before she leaves. Newt's putting on the table real solutions in a way today that he wouldn't have done in 1994. And that kind of maturing and thought I think is going to help the party and help him.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well let me turn to Governor Barbour here. Governor, you heard Newt Gingrich. He is painting Mitt Romney as the candidate of the Republican establishment. What I'm wondering, what is the Republican establishment these days?

HALEY BARBOUR (Former Mississippi Governor/ Chairman, Republican National Committee): Well, of course, the Republican Party is a conservative party of the United States. The Democratic Party is the liberal party becoming more liberal daily under the Obama administration. But ours is a very diverse party, you have got economic conservatives, social conservatives. About sixty percent of the people who voted in South Carolina are like me they're Evangelical Christians. But I was interested and Lindsey touched on this. Two thirds of them said in the exit polls their first criteria was to vote for the person who had the best chance to beat Obama. And I think that's what most Republicans want. They're looking for the candidate as-- as Bill Buckley used to say years ago, we want the most conservative person who can win in November. And Newt was really helped by the fact that lot of people who maybe didn't think he could win three months ago have come to that conclusion. Of course, if we would have said three months ago that Bob, that Mitt Romney was going to win the South Carolina primary, we'd all laughed at that too. So a little of this was according to Hoyle, but I think Newt has-- Newt had a great week and debates really help him because as Lindsey says he can make it very plain why we're for the right things.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well let me ask you this. Do you now agree with the majority of those who said that they voted for-- for-- for Newt Gingrich that he is the one now who has the best chance of beating Obama? Do you think that?

HALEY BARBOUR: I think that-- I think that remains to be seen, Bob. Newt-- Lindsey mentioned Newt has become a much better candidate. He is a-- he is tremendous in debate. He's the best debater by far, not close. Romney strengths are more managerial and Lord-- there are a lot of people in the United States who understand we need some management after watching this administration for the last three years. We need somebody that knows how to get things done. Romney has in my opinion been very courageous to tackle the entitlement programs of the-- of the Obama administration. When the President makes his state of the state address this week, I predict he's going to say we need bigger government. We need more of people to be paid for the-- by the government. We need more people to be taken care of by the government. And Romney's had the courage to say now that's a losing proposition in the long-term. America is not based on an entitlement society but an opportunity society. So I think both of them have something really strong to offer. A long primary season, I think, is healthy in many ways as it gets personal. That's negative. But not nearly as negative as the Democrats are going to be, I mean, Obama can't run on his record--

BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me.

HALEY BARBOUR: --so he's going to make the Demo-- he's going to make the Republican, whoever it is, somebody that his grandmamma wouldn't recognize or vote for.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me ask you this, Governor, before I let you go. You created quite a stir yourself when you left office and pardoned those two hundred prisoners. It turned out that the vast majority of them hundred and eighty some of them had already been released from jail. They weren't even in jail, a lot of them on dialysis. But I want to ask you, do you think in retrospect, do you regret the way that was handled? Could you have done that better?

HALEY BARBOUR: Well, sure we could have done it better because we had no idea that the reporting of it and particularly some of the misstatements by political opponents would let the public think we were letting two hundred some people out penitentiary. We let twenty-six out of the penitentiary and as you mentioned half of them for health reasons. A hundred and eighty-nine of these people had been out. Most of them had been out for years and years and years. They're no more threat to the people of Mississippi now than they were the week before they got their pardon but there's a handful that this is all about. And it is becoming public now that the attorney general's office was very involved in this. In fact, if we had anything to do, I would have found out that the attorney general's office had something to do with it and got somebody else to tend to it.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, we have to leave it there. Thanks to both of you for that analysis this morning. We'll be back in a minute with a little round-table.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

BOB SCHIEFFER: And welcome back to our round-table. Joining me to try to make some sense of this race, a guy who has watched these things about almost as long as I have, Joe Klein of The Time magazine and the Wall Street Journal's Kelly Evans who hasn't watched them as long.

KELLY EVANS (Wall Street Journal Columnist): No. But I-- I did get a front row look on Monday night. And it was pretty interesting.

BOB SCHIEFFER: You sure did. I want to ask you about that. This-- this primary was all about debates. What was it like to be asking the questions because you asked it, and, boy, that crowd was going wild?

KELLY EVANS: The energy was interesting. The crowd was almost as much a candidate or a part of the debate as-- as anyone else. And I think to talk about the debates a little bit broadly, they've been an opportunity for Newt Gingrich to really stage his comeback and really stage his campaign. You know, Mitt Romney's folks going into next week were hoping he might not even have to participate in the debates because it basically gives air time to Newt Gingrich who does quite well in them. And Mitt Romney spent so much money. But as we're learning that doesn't necessarily amount to as much as a good performance does. So tomorrow night, NBC has a national debate in Florida as we turn our attention there. Mitt Romney will be involved. There will be two more debates. And again don't count that out even though Mitt Romney has raised so much money and spent so much money in Florida. These debates are part of the reason why Newt Gingrich just won South Carolina.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Where do you think this thing is right now, Joe?

JOE KLEIN (Time Columnist): Well, maybe we should go along with what Gingrich wants and have debates without moderators because he's been really good at beating the moderators in the debates.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Mm-Hm.

JOE KLEIN: You know he's really terrific at taking us to the cleaners. But he hasn't been all that tough on Mitt Romney. He had a couple of good moments, pious baloney was a good moment. But if you look at the debate on Thursday night, Rick Santorum, former prosecutor really took it to both Romney and Gingrich, something that Gingrich hasn't been willing to do. But you've got to say that right now he fits the profile of this Republican Party better than Romney does. Because he can do angry really well.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, I mean, one of the things I asked Governor Barbour, what is the Republican establishment now? Gingrich says that Romney is a Republican establishment. But who-- is there such a thing anymore?

JOE KLEIN: Well, it sure ain't the one that we used to know, Bob. It's-- it's become a far more populist party. It's a party of the white working class and that's who Newt Gingrich is representing. You know, in any other Republican race of the millions that I've covered, you know, Mitt Romney would have a shoe-in. They usually go for the next guy in line. And he used the next guy in line. Not this time.

KELLY EVANS: Part of the problem may be, in this case, the next guy in line is showing that he's not necessarily as electable as he's supposed to be. So it's not necessarily that Newt Gingrich has suddenly demonstrated his electability even though we heard Lindsey Graham talking favorably about his immigration policies. It's not necessarily that Newt Gingrich is going to reach out to independents. But that yesterday showed Mitt Romney isn't necessarily doing that. And if the GOP feels that its candidate can't necessarily do that, then it does have a problem.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Will the economy be more of an issue in Florida? You write about housing. That's what your column is about at the Wall Street Journal. Is this going to be an issue in Florida, say, maybe more so than South Carolina?

KELLY EVANS: Florida is one of the states hit hardest by foreclosures. And South Carolina and Florida are very diff-- different demographically and economically than Iowa and then New Hampshire. But what's really interesting, we've reached this moment where we feel like the economy is getting better, unemployment is coming down. This is supposed to be good for Obama's re-election chances. But don't count out the possibility that the data here starts to get a little bit weaker in the weeks and months ahead. We've seen this for the last couple of years. And if we're heading into the summer maybe looking at the importance of the conventions suddenly in-- in this GOP process, maybe if the economy starts to worsen, that also affects the way people vote. Remember, people who made the economy their top priority voted for Newt Gingrich yesterday.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, what about this?

JOE KLEIN: Can I say-- you know, one-- one thing that's going to be important in Florida, is entitlement. I mean, you know, Mitt Romney has spent the last months talking about his opposition to an entitlement society. And his being in favor of an opportunity society. But you've got a-- a lot of people down in Florida who are on entitlements, on Medicare and Social Security and don't want to see it messed with by the federal government. So it's going to be interesting to see how both--

BOB SCHIEFFER: Twenty seconds left. Do you think we're going to have a brokered convention here? And if we do, will we remember how to cover it?

JOE KLEIN: I certainly won't. You might--

(Bob Schieffer laughing)

JOE KLEIN: But-- but-- but-- but it's not impossible, I think.

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. We're going to leave it there. I'll be back in a minute with some final thoughts.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

BOB SCHIEFFER: Finally today, I love to vote, but I never tell anyone who I vote for, not even my wife. Nor do I advocate for or against anyone so don't take this as support or opposition to any of the candidates. But when I saw a voter quoted the other day as saying one of the candidates was just too moderate, I had to wonder. How can anyone be too moderate? Is moderate like compromise a new dirty word? With all these labels being flung around, I went to the dictionary for a campaign year review. Well, it turns out moderate is defined as avoiding extremes, calm, temperate. Can anything or anyone be too much of that? And I hope liberals who derisively brand others conservative and conservatives who are proud to be called just that will not be surprised to know that one definition of conservative is one marked by moderation. And those who derisively brand their political enemies liberal may be unaware that dictionary defines liberal as generous and open-minded. I offer this information as a public service. If we're going to call people names it does help to know what we're calling them. And by the way, I also looked up the term Christian. The dictionary says it has to do with Jesus and links it to no particular political party. I thought I was right about that.

Back in a minute.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

BOB SCHIEFFER: That's all our time for today. Thank you for being here. Be sure to tune in next week for a special edition of FACE THE NATION from Miami. We'll be broadcasting for one full hour just two days before the Florida primary. Will Mitt Romney accept our invitation to debate Newt Gingrich? Stay tuned. See yo

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