need to add title here

DWI: Is It Murder?

August 2, 2009 4:55 PM

With DWI fatalities staying constant despite all the campaigns against the crime, some prosecutors are pursuing harsher penalties against perpetrators, including long prison terms for those who caused deaths. Bob Simon reports.

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by ixlovexboobies November 12, 2009 12:19 PM EST
Wow Ok this is why people should NOT drink and drive. I am so sorry for the parents of Katie. She was such a cute little girl. And dad your are so right for wanting the guy to die. I do to. This story made me cry so much. :( If you are with someone that has had alcohol in their system do them and many others a favor and take them home yourself.
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by Notsheep August 9, 2009 7:06 PM EDT
What you seek is a risk free society. Driving or riding in a vehicle, motorcycle, airplane, boat, ship, bus, monorail or space shuttle involves risk. Eliminate the risk of alcohol and you still face poor judgment in many forms. Texting, cell phones, PMS or just some dumb schmuk who can't drive for what ever reason.. I too have lost friends to accidents. Alcohol involved in some, not in others. They are all just as dead, just as missed. How do you eliminate all risk? Stay home, bar the doors and don't eat any actual food as there is risk in that as well? Life is tough. There will be losses in a big operation. If DUI is such a henious crime, why are illegals routinely released when apprehended at the scene of an accident they caused when stinking drunk? Because they have no money? It's either that or the same government that is getting so tough on DUI's wants them here - and they know that they drink. They only care about being re-elected, tragicly using your losses as ammunition.
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by dugudr August 9, 2009 3:03 AM EDT
We need more effort into prevention. Drunkard make poor judgement, so why don't we make the party host to give alcohol test for people leaving or seems drunk? The DUI fine is too soft, we need ramp it up exponentially. They need to make payment equal to and separately to their monthly insurance to fight DUI so they can remember every time they pay the bill.
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by Collin1976 August 9, 2009 2:27 AM EDT
Way to harsh.. There are many different levels of drunk driving.. You could have a blood alcohol of .09 and some fool walks out into traffic and now your a murderer.. This guy was inebriated driving the wrong way down the freeway.. 10 years would have been good.
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by goodhumorman August 8, 2009 9:50 PM EDT
Anti-smoking fervor should be directed more toward alcohol than tobacco. It seems the devastation due to drinking far out-weighs the losses of smoking. Overdrinking leads to divorce, job-loss, liver failure, property destruction, vehicle fatalities, violent behavior...the list is endless.
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by commorancy August 7, 2009 7:30 AM EDT
Driving drunk and killing someone is not necessarily murder. Murder usually implies the unlawful intentional act of killing someone, usually with malice aforethought. Yes, in some jurisdictions, this may include the 'depraved heart' or 'extreme recklessness' argument. In this specific case shown in 60 minutes, because he was driving down the wrong side of the road, that could be considered extreme recklessness that lead to deaths. So, in this one case, by legal definitions it could be considered 'murder'. However, that case does not necessarily apply to all instances of drunk driving deaths. It depends entirely on the situation. In this one instance, he could be and was charged with murder because of the way the laws are written combined with the situation surrounding the deaths.

On the flip side, you're also talking about a limo. CBS did not bring up this point at all. Did the limo contribute to the child's death? Was the child properly restrained? You're talking about a vehicle that is designed to encourages unrestrained use inside the vehicle. If the family had chosen to drive home in a standard vehicle with proper safety restraints, would Katie be alive today? Putting her into the limo likely contributed just as much to her death as the impact from the drunk driver's vehicle. I'd like to see statistical data on limo crashes and how many end up in death. I think this would tell the tale. The limo driver, on the other hand, was likely properly restrained. So, his death should be the one that hinges the case and not necessarily the child's death just strictly due to a limo's unsafe design.

Kathleen Rice's arguments are all about tougher sentences, not about stopping drunk driving. She improperly believes that tougher sentences will reduce or stop drunk driving. It won't. This is a false argument. People will still continue to drive drunk even if the sentence were increased to the death penalty. If you truly want to stop drunk driving, then you need to take alcoholic beverages off the market. We've already tried that once and it failed. The only other way is through technological measures in vehicles (i.e., breathalizer tests or blood alcohol tests) that prevent the vehicle from starting if under the influence. Also, licenses should be revoked at the first instance of drunk driving. This is a penalty that carries weight. If you don't have a license, it makes life extremely difficult in so many ways. But, taking a way a license will just mean people will drive without a license (and likely may still drive drunk).

The most effective way to stop people driving drunk is to take alcohol off the market. Increasing penalties won't deter the behavior in determined individuals. Stiffer sentences means we end up with more people in prison hanging off taxpayer dollars for longer periods. That also doesn't help our economy or our society.
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by latinoinjc August 6, 2009 10:03 PM EDT
I watched your story on drunk drivers and wow did it bring that day back to me. That day was june 24th, 2003. On that day a drunk driver took away from me my younger brother, a police officer from our lives. The person only got 19 yrs for what he did. I want to applaud Ms. Rice for what she is doing because things have to change. On june 24th what was taken from me was his laughter because thats what he gave me. I miss him very much. still hurting in new jersey.
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by latinoinjc August 6, 2009 10:02 PM EDT
I watched your story on drunk drivers and wow did it bring that day back to me. That day was june 24th, 2003. On that day a drunk driver took away from me my younger brother, a police officer from our lives. The person only got 19 yrs for what he did. I want to applaud Ms. Rice for what she is doing because things have to change. On june 24th what was taken from me was his laughter because thats what he gave me. I miss him very much. still hurting in new jersey.
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by ckgatz August 6, 2009 12:40 PM EDT
I applaud DA Rice. My 16 year old son John was killed by a drunk driver. This young lady who killed my son was a senior in high school. They both went to the same school, and just happened to be on the same road at the same time at 5:30 on a beautiful, sunny, October afternoon. This young lady made the decision to drink and drive. She only served 9 months in prison, however we have lost our son forever. Fair? I don't think so! We need tougher laws, we need a better solution. I hope that our society will make better strides in the fight against drinking and driving!
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by c_g August 5, 2009 12:44 PM EDT
I have gone through reading some of these comments and am repulsed to say the least. i responded to a few, but i can no longer read the people who are in opposition the the plight of Kathleen Rice. Perhaps if YOU people - who claim alcoholism is a disease, and people don't drive intending to kill - would more fully understand the impact of this socially acceptable, yet completely immoral act if you lost a loved one! How can you even watch this story and be so insensitive?! It is probably because you drink and drive! My father was killed by a drunk driver on my mother's birthday in 2008. It was the worst day of my life. My dad was MY WORLD! I can't even begin to explain how much we have suffered because of this MURDER'S CHOICE to drive drunk, but that is not even the point. MY DAD'S TIME WAS CUT SHORT BECAUSE SOMEONE CHOSE TO DRINK AND DRIVE! Anyone who is so ignorant and insensitive to object to stricter penalties should go through what my family and I have gone through in the past year of our lives. Having my father's bloody shoe and tooth, hearing witness testimony of how his body was "squished" in the car and his last breath, knowing that HE WOULD STILL BE HERE IF SOMEONE DIDN'T ACT SO TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE AND SELFISH! SHAME ON ANY OF YOU WHO DON'T SUPPORT RICE. Try empathy on for size, and read some of the comments of people who lost loved ones to this preventable tragedy. Then imagine it happening to the person you love more than anyone because that is what my dad was to me - surely what this child was to her parents. We cannot change behavior unless we recognize it, and those who refuse to recognize it are as guilty as the drunk drivers.
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by obviousfacter August 5, 2009 9:43 AM EDT
KATHLEEN RICE...We need all car manufacures to install mandatory sensors in ALL vehicles that sense the smell of alcohal to keep car from starting.When we take are vehicles for inspection and these sensors aren't working cars should be confiscated. We NEED to get tougher on drunk driving.
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by obviousfacter August 5, 2009 9:32 AM EDT
My name is Diane and I run a driving school and I applaud any efforts to make drunk driving a crime with consequences.We are not making any headway by warning teens of risks of death but I believe jail might be a deterrant. When someone gets behind wheel drunk and kills an innocent person and a lawyer pleads it was the alcohol and not his clients fault are the courts willing to say just because someone shoots a gun randomly and the bullet ends up in a toddlers brain should we say "it was the gun's fault not the person that shot it off?
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by riknj August 4, 2009 9:41 PM EDT
I suspect that more innocent people have been killed or permanently injured by drunk/stoned drivers. I believe that we as a nation should treat drunk drivers as we treat terroroists. One solution might be a mandatory sentence for those involved in an accident while under the influence. With a mandatory maximum sentence of 25 years if someone is killed. I think that the lawyers who defend drunk drivers so they get a slap on the wrist are as guilty as the drunk drivers. As it turns out, the woman who was driving the wrong way on the Taconic Parkway last week and killed 8 people was drunk and high on marijuana. This murderer was eloquently eulogized at her funreal. I wish that more prosecutors were serious about going after drunk drivers.
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by jcbono August 4, 2009 7:46 PM EDT
All I can say is, I've had nightmares about this 60 minute segment for the last two nights. How terrible for these parents and grandparents to have relive that night over and over in their memories. I can't imagine the pain they must feel each and every day. My heart goes out to all of them.

On the other hand, I worry about my own children making such a mistake and I hope I've taught them to do the right thing by not drinking and driving. That young man took that child's life into his own hands that night when he got behind the wheel and now he'll pay the rest of his life for that mistake.

Was it murder? Picture that child the night of the accident and now picture that it being your own child in your arms and answer that question yourself.

It's a lose - lose situation. The madness has to stop and accountability has to begin somewhere.
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by revraj August 4, 2009 5:29 PM EDT
The remarks ahead of mine run the gamut: those who plead for leniency "since it wasn't intentional" to those whose sympathies lie with the innocent, "the results offer no exculpation." Some ask for machines to intercede, disabling an automobile. Could a civil people not come to some basic agreements? 1.The behavioral effects of alcohol consumption can be charted and predicted - concerning motor ability and mental acuity (or at least judgement.) 2 Everyone can know the relationship between the number of drinks taken and the alcohol content of the blood (weight chart included.) 3. Everyone can know that violation of sobriety levels is a prime cause and intentional violation of the law, 4. No one is exculpated from the results of deliberate behavior in a civil society.

Drunken driving is a scourge on society, incalculably costly in human suffering and financial loss.

Society is rightly alarmed at the loss of 5,000 military persons in a war, especially when that war is judged needless. Every month at least 1,000 persons die from this "behavior" on the roads. Thousands more are maimed and crippled. Perhaps your segment on Sunday can provoke a national discussion and reform, What do you want to come from this program??
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by Telstar_55 August 4, 2009 2:43 PM EDT
Being a victim of a drunk driver for 33 years and experiencing all the excuses and hypocrisies present by not only individuals, but by our justice system and society in general concerning alcohol and its abuse. These tragedies that are from time to time emphasized because of their severity of such news programs in 60 minutes and others with an attempt to make an impact really accomplish no more than a simple spit into the wind. The fact remains until our society including the entertainment industry, the politicians, the laws themselves which need to be much more effective, the sports industry etc. become united in the fight to address such stupid and inappropriate behavior little will be accomplished. It's like the analogy a few steps forwards, but 10 steps backwards. Although it is necessary for victims and advocates keep trying.
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by quotelawrence August 4, 2009 1:00 PM EDT
CURRENTLY PRO-FOOTBALL PLAYER RAN DOWN A PED, AND GOT LESS THAN 30 DAYS FOR MURDER BECAUSE THE DRIVE WAS INCONVIENCED INTO SLOWING DOWN OR YET PUTTING ON HIS BRAKES, OH YEA THAT RIGHT IT WAS RACIAL PROFILING, OUR JUSTICE IS ALL SCREWED UP.
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by andypratt August 4, 2009 12:12 PM EDT
Be afraid, America! Be very afraid!

The government of the people, by the people, and for the people has been replaced by the government VERSUS the people; and the "Newspeak" created by them is altering the language to be used against us!

Kathleen Rice is yet another single-issue, power-mongering politico. She is using fear, anguish and vengeance to push her agenda to re-define murder to fit her particular cause. And with the unbridled license afforded a prosecutor's office in obtaining indictments from a "grand" jury (no opposing arguments are allowed) she is free to present anything she likes (pertinent or not) to achieve her goal. No wonder famed litigator, Gerry Spence, once noted that a grand jury could "indict a ham sandwich" if it wanted to.

Lastly, though, let's follow Ms. Rice's agenda to its logical conclusion-- if death-related DUI is universally accepted as murder, then every person- EVERY PERSON- ever accused of DUI could also be indicted for attempted murder! Sounds more like the reign of Prince John than the U.S.A... and as if our prisons weren't over-filled already.

When justice FOR ALL and mercy are absent from our court system, only the unjust and the merciless shall prevail.

Be afraid, America! Be very afraid!
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by maccount August 4, 2009 11:54 AM EDT
I think people in general don't have ANY COMMENT SENSE. Here's an opportunity to make it save on the road by putting a heavy penality on drunk drivers who are killing our love ones who we will never see again! Then all of a sudden, there are questions about: well, what about the elderly / people texting or using their cell phone while driving which can cause an accident? Let's deal with one issue at a time, if there's an opportunity to minimize driving while under the influence, then let's NOT drop the ball by bringing everything else into the mix! If one problem can be solved (if not minimized), we can all work out all the other problems one-by-one which need to be addressed! There's a poem which goes like this:

MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Drivers)


WENT TO A PARTY MOM

I went to a party,
And remembered what you said.
You told me not to drink, Mom,
So I had a sprite instead.

I felt proud of myself,
The way you said I would
That I didn?t drink and drive,
Though some friends said I should.

I made a healthy choice,
And your advice to me was right.
The party finally ended,
And the kids drove out of sight.

I got into my car,
Sure to get home in one piece.
I never knew what was coming, Mom,
Something I expected least.

Now I?m lying on the pavement,
And I hear the policeman say,
The kid that caused this wreck was drunk,
Mom, his voice seems far away.

My own blood?s all around me,
As I try hard not to cry.
I can hear the paramedic say,
This girl is going to die.

I?m sure the guy had no idea,
While he was flying high.
Because he chose to drink and drive,
Now I would have to die.

So why do people do it, Mom
Knowing that it ruins lives?
And now the pain is cutting me,
Like a hundred stabbing knives.

Tell sister not to be afraid, Mom
Tell daddy to be brave.
And when I go to heaven,
Put ?Mommy?s Girl? on my grave.

Someone should have taught him,
That it?s wrong to drink and drive.
Maybe if his parents had,
I?d still be alive.

My breath is getting shorter,
Mom I?m getting really scared
These are my final moments,
And I?m so unprepared.

I wish that you could hold me Mom,
As I lie here and die.
I wish that I could say, ?I love you, Mom!?
So I love you and good-bye.

Read it a weep people - I wonder how you will react if it was one of your own!

Maria
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by maccount August 4, 2009 11:49 AM EDT
I think people in general don't have ANY COMMENT SENSE. Here's an opportunity to make it save on the road by putting a heavy penality on drunk drivers who are killing our love ones who we will never see again! Then all of a sudden, there are questions about: well, what about the elderly / people texting or using their cell phone while driving which can cause an accident? Let's deal with one issue at a time, if there's an opportunity to minimize driving while under the influence, then let's NOT drop the ball by bringing everything else into the mix! If one problem can be solved (if not minimized), we can all work out all the other problems one-by-one which need to be addressed! There's a poem which goes like this:

MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Drivers)


WENT TO A PARTY MOM

I went to a party,
And remembered what you said.
You told me not to drink, Mom,
So I had a sprite instead.

I felt proud of myself,
The way you said I would
That I didn?t drink and drive,
Though some friends said I should.

I made a healthy choice,
And your advice to me was right.
The party finally ended,
And the kids drove out of sight.

I got into my car,
Sure to get home in one piece.
I never knew what was coming, Mom,
Something I expected least.

Now I?m lying on the pavement,
And I hear the policeman say,
The kid that caused this wreck was drunk,
Mom, his voice seems far away.

My own blood?s all around me,
As I try hard not to cry.
I can hear the paramedic say,
This girl is going to die.

I?m sure the guy had no idea,
While he was flying high.
Because he chose to drink and drive,
Now I would have to die.

So why do people do it, Mom
Knowing that it ruins lives?
And now the pain is cutting me,
Like a hundred stabbing knives.

Tell sister not to be afraid, Mom
Tell daddy to be brave.
And when I go to heaven,
Put ?Mommy?s Girl? on my grave.

Someone should have taught him,
That it?s wrong to drink and drive.
Maybe if his parents had,
I?d still be alive.

My breath is getting shorter,
Mom I?m getting really scared
These are my final moments,
And I?m so unprepared.

I wish that you could hold me Mom,
As I lie here and die.
I wish that I could say, ?I love you, Mom!?
So I love you and good-bye.

Read it a weep people - I wonder how you will react if it was one of your own!

Maria
Reply to this comment
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