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More Than Junk Science

April 24, 2009 1:52 PM

When first presented in 1989 cold fusion was quickly dismissed as junk science. But, as Scott Pelley reports, there's renewed buzz among scientists that cold fusion could lead to monumental breakthroughs in energy production.

Cold Fusion Is Hot Again
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by Gerrit_ecn January 14, 2013 7:16 AM EST
Moulton45's comments below are interesting. This user assumes he has understood the science of electrochemistry and calorimetry after studying wikipedia for 4 days and that he can therefore conclude that the reported excess heat is due to simple measurement mistakes.

What he hasn't explained though, is why his assumed measurement mistake only happens every now and then (excess heat is observed only sometimes).

What he also hasn't understood is that if his explanation were correct (which isn't so), all previous electrochemistry experiments in the history of science would have had the same systematic experimental error. And Moulton45 has now uncovered it, well done, please collect your Nobel Prize for this significant advancement.
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by cchardwick November 4, 2011 10:43 PM EDT
This is not about chemistry or energy, it's about politics and the power of billions of dollars and people in power with that money backing them every step of the way. This is basically 'free' energy or nearly free with very little amount of money needed to get a tremendous amount of energy. Just think what would happen to all the green energy research, the solar panel companies, the oil and gas, drilling, mining for coal, etc. etc... This would make all those industries come to a screaming halt as well as all the jobs and all the revenue, people would lose trillions of dollars and tens of thousands of jobs. I believe this was debunked years ago by the people making large sums of money from these industries. It wasn't until they reproduced it in 27 labs at once and all came forward that they were successful because they can't go after 27 labs at once. And I'm guessing the experts debunking the scince were paid large sums of money to fight this. I've been a scientist for over a decade and I can tell you that most everything you know about science is incorrect, especially if it involves large amounts of money to any one party. Billions upon billions of dollars can push a lie so far that everything just takes it for granted that it's the truth. Politics and money distort science to the point where I don't believe anything I hear anymore. I'm surprised this made the media and I wouldn't be surprised if this was debunked, deleted, and banned from the main stream media. There's just too much money and power at risk.
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by sculptagain November 4, 2011 10:05 PM EDT
The University of Idaho (Moscow, ID) have been developing D2O in larger quanties. This D2O is then sent by guarded vehicles to a small airport just west of the university in Washington state - flown to 3 stations in Alaska (Port Clarence, Attu, and one not specified) to continue the experiments. Small laboritories left from old WWII Coast Guard bases have been working dilligently (and Secretly) on this process thanks to the U.S. Government and a few private corporations that supply materials. These stations in Alaska often change temporarily to Hawaii and on to other Pacific islands where secrecy, again, can be easily maintained. Not even the highest government officials know about these bases since there is no interest nor government monies going into the experiments. The only direct involvement from the Government is the use of transporting materials, equipment, and personnel by military air and sea-going vessels. And since the materials and personnel are quite minimal, these movements are easily substantiated in budget or fiscal expenditures as "routine."
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by BMak1225 September 30, 2011 7:10 AM EDT
where is this Technology now ? Please do another show on it. America needs this technology so we can get the heck away from middle eastern oil. if this aired 3 years ago , where is it at now ?
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by dadabla April 8, 2011 4:04 AM EDT
I am not a scientist, but I find this story very interesting, as I am very much into "energy issues."

Certainly the comments by Moulton45 are interesting, even though I don't have the background to really critque or even understand some of the terms he uses. But whether or not he and the other skeptics are correct is obviously beyond me.

It seems obvious to me though that one easily determine whether excess electrical energy is ultimately created by using a battery of a certain known amp-hour rating as the souce of electrical energy, and after heating water (or a refrigerant in an ORC process for a more efficient conversion) and turning a turbine to produce electricity, charge (if possible) several such virgin batteries with this electricity. This would be "real world" experiment -- not just one in lab conditions. Obviously if the water wasn't heated enough to produce the requisite electricity, then the virgin batteries wouldn't be charged (whether it is one battery, or a hundred or more).
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by tblakeslee April 2, 2011 3:13 PM EDT
Focardi and Rossi recently held a public demonstration of a desktop-sized reactor that produces 11 kW of net power for extended periods of time. Both the fuel and residues are clean and free of radioactivity. The fuel is a nickel powder and a tiny amount of hydrogen. A gram of nickel generates 2000 kilowatt-hours in this prototype.
On January 14, 2011 a public demonstration was held at the University of Bologna with about 50 attendees. The US press totally ignored this momentous event.
Perhaps 60 Minutes should do an update on this story. The disaster in Japan makes it painfully clear that our current nuclear power, which was adapted from bomb technology, is a disastrous mistake. Focardi and Rossi plan to deliver a one million watt power station to a Greek company this October. A true "black swan" event, this technology will change the world.
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by Moulton45 January 9, 2011 8:45 AM EST
Scott Pelley, when you were in McKubre's lab at SRI with your CBS News film crew, did it occur to you to slap a VU Meter (or a European style Peak Power Meter) across the terminals of his cell, to measure the AC (audio) power going into his cell?

McKubre might not bother to measure AC (audio) power, but the technicians at CBS surely know how to measure the peak-to-peak audio power using an ordinary VU Meter.

In McKubre's best results, he reports an excess power of about 500 to 1200 mW. My calculations, treating the AC (audio) power as a 2 volt peak-to-peak triangle wave, yield an audio power going into his cell of roughly 500 to 1800 Mw.

Is this the missing input power that Michael Garwin suspects that McKubre left out of his model when he (McKubre) assumed there was only constant current DC power going into his cell?
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by Moulton45 January 9, 2011 1:56 AM EST
It turns out that the missing correction for AC power doesn't depend on any capacitive load in the cell. The correction applies even to a pure resistive load, if the ohmic resistance is fluctuating (as it does when the cell is bubbling).

It's ironic that McKubre is funded by EPRI, the Electric Power Research Institute, which depends on funding from the electric power utilities, whose revenues depend on calculating AC power consumption correctly.

McKubre (like most researchers in CF) is using a precision constant current power supply. When the ohmic resistance of the cell fluctuates (as it does when it's bubbling), the constant current power supply has to adjust the drive voltage to maintain the constant current. In an ideal constant current power supply, this adjustment is instantaneous. But in a real power supply it takes a small but finite time for the power supply to adjust. The speed at which it adjusts is called the slew rate. But no matter how fast the slew rate, there is a transient in which the voltage and current are perturbed and ramp to a new value.

It turns out that the AC power from this transient isn't that hard to compute. It can be modeled as a linear ramp, which replaces the ideal square wave (instantaneous correction) with a sawtooth (or triangle wave). When you integrate the power over the rise or fall of the triangle wave, you get the AC power that McKubre left out of his model.

I took the data from two of McKubre's experimental runs where he reports significant excess heat, and computed the AC power, assuming a peak-to-peak voltage fluctuation of 2 volts. I get AC power almost exactly equal to his anomalous excess heat.

So Michael Garwin was right. McKubre neglected to account for the AC power pumped into his cell when it's bubbling furiously and taxing the power supply to maintain a constant current as fast as it can.

There's a slew of AC electrical energy in that slew rate that McKubre neglected to account for.
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by Moulton45 January 7, 2011 11:44 AM EST
There is yet another issue with these cells that seems applicable to all of them using an electrolyte driven by a constant current power supply.

When the cells are fully loaded, and evolving D2 and O2 gas, there is some (variable) amount of gas that clings to the electrodes, forming an irregular thin layer of gassy foam separating the electrode from the electrolyte.

A thin layer of dielectric material separating the electrode from the electrolyte introduces a phenomenon known as an electrochemical double layer. In effect, it turns the electrodes into double-layer capacitors, which can store energy the way an electronic flash does when it charges up.

Because McKubre and others are using a constant current power supply, the voltage into the cell fluctuates significantly once the bubbles start forming and wreaking havoc with the conductivity of the interface between the electrolyte and the electrodes. This fluctuating voltage drives an AC noise current into the cell, rapidly charging and discharging the double-layer capacitors formed by the presence of the thin layer of gas on the surface of the electrodes. This AC noise current is not included in McKubre's energy budget, but it appears to be large enough to account for the otherwise unexplained heat.

More details here:

http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Talk:Cold_fusion/Skeptical_argument/Were_the_excess_heat_results_ever_shown_to_be_artifact%3F/Electrolytic_capacitor#Double_Layer_Capacitance
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by Moulton45 January 6, 2011 11:53 AM EST
McKubre's cells are shown in Figure 1 here:

http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/McKubreMCHexcesspowe.pdf

The outer shell is a stainless steel can.

It's lined with Teflon, and filled with electrolyte.

In other words, his cell is a large Electrolytic Capacitor with a Teflon dielectric.

Here is a quick explanation from the Wikipedia article on Types of Capacitors:

"Electrolytic capacitors have a larger capacitance per unit volume than other types, making them valuable in relatively high-current and low-frequency electrical circuits, e.g. in power-supply filters or as coupling capacitors in audio amplifiers. High-capacity electrolytics, also known as supercapacitors or ultracapacitors, have applications similar to those of rechargeable batteries, e.g. in electrically powered vehicles."

"PTFE or Teflon is a higher performing and more expensive dielectric than other plastic dielectrics."

If the outer metal shell is grounded, and if the voltage of the LiOD electrolyte is time varying, electrical power will be conveyed through the Electrolytic Capacitor to ground.

How does McKubre model the electrical power drained away by the action of the Electrolytic Capacitor of the outer stainless steel shell of his cells?
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