September 6, 2010 7:48 AM

Student Complaints Rising at For-Profit Schools

By
Wyatt Andrews
(CBS)  No segment of higher education is growing faster than for-profit colleges. Enrollment has shot up from 365,000 a few years ago to five times that now, but complaints by dissatisfied students are also rising.

Congress holds hearings again in September after investigators went undercover.

Two years after graduation, Michelle Zuver doesn't know how her college debt reached $86,000. She was told the cost would be less for a criminal justice degree she says many police agencies don't recognize. Her degree came from Westwood College, a for-profit school with 17 campuses, reports CBS News correspondent Wyatt Andrews.

"It's definitely a false American dream," says Zuver. "I can't get a job, I'm in debt and living at home."

Justin Schulthies, another Westwood student, borrowed $84,000 and also says he was never told the true cost. He describes his degree in videogame design as almost worthless.

"I feel like I went to Wal-Mart and bought myself a degree," he says.

Widespread complaints like this - overpriced degrees, misleading claims, and an alarming level of student debt - led to some embarrassing revelations this year on the entire for-profit college industry, including Westwood. When the Government Accountability Office went undercover to investigate how 12 for-profit colleges recruited their students and found that every one - 12 of 12 - made deceptive claims and that four colleges encouraged fraud. In a video, a Westwood sales rep tells the GAO agent not to report a quarter-million dollar bank account in order to maximize his student loans.

"Just FYI, they don't need to know your cash," says the recruiter on the video.

In June, the Senate heard testimony on why these colleges recruit so aggressively.

"Excuse the language, but it's putting asses in classes," says Senate witness Margaret Reiter.

Turns out, the explosive growth and profitability of the industry, including its big names like Kaplan and the University of Phoenix, is being funded by students using taxpayer-financed grants and loans. The industry now educates 10 percent of all college students, 1.8 million. But those students get 23 percent of federal loans and grants, and are the most likely to default on those loans.

"The whole business model of the for-profit school industry depends on taxpayer money," says Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa)

The for-profit college system does play a critical role in society. It serves older students, workers between jobs and adults upgrading their skills. But now to protect taxpayers against huge losses, the Department of Education wants some new rules, including one that would expel a for-profit school from the student loan system until more of their graduates start to pay. The industry is fighting that rule, calling it a penalty for serving low income students who can't attend state universities.

"We're always going to have higher default rates than those who go to much more highly selective traditional institutions," says Harris Miller, president and CEO of the Career College Association.

Westwood College declined our interview request but claims that most of its graduates have "positions in their field of study." Meanwhile Schulthies works in a mail room and Zuver works in retail.

"They've put me in a situation where if I'm lucky I'll recover around the age of 50 or 60," she says.

Westwood tells CBS News that Zuver got the information she needed on the cost and value of her degree but Westwood and the other colleges caught on tape by the GAO have promised major improvements in what they tell students what they disclose during recruiting, including more details on costs and whether the degree being offered is likely to result in a job.

Copyright 2010 CBS. All rights reserved.
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by pepsidoodles June 7, 2011 12:36 PM EDT
Well, I could post a book on this subject! I signed up for a 7 month for profit school at Everest Institute in Tigard Oregon for their medical assisting program. I finished the program March 11, 2011 and was to start my externship, I got mostly As' as well I was a school ambassador and I helped other students with anything they needed help with. I was at school 3 to 4 hours before class started every day. SINCE I finished the program there have been at least 50 students graduate behind me, ALL of them have been given externships but not me. It is going on 4 months now and no externship in sight. I have an apt with a lawyer now. Many of the other students had 3 to 4 interviews before they graduated, I only got 1 interview in 3 months! It was set up by a woman whom hates me that is in admin. We had a run in when I stood up for another student being racialy discriminated against by this woman, and I have been put through helll ever since! She is the reason I have not had an externship yet!!! On the one interview I went on the interviewer had the nerve to say "We usually don't hire women your age" yes I will be speaking to the lawyer about that too!!! Everyone in the career services dept lied to me so many times I can not count them all!! I hope they are shut down!! I am not the only one!! There are many others whom had bad experiences with this school and I found 234 complaints filed with the BBB, and several lawsuits, mine will be one of them. I am going to contact FOX news here so they can give them 15 min of free advertising, pun intended! I went to this school for a career change, I have been offered jobs but need the certificate to go to work. I can't get the certificate until I do the externship! So now we are talking lost wages on top of the $1600 a month rent I am paying to be near the school for a year now to finish! They charged me for books I did not use, they charged me for a pc program that did not work for 4 months of the program, and when it did work it would not work with the book I had!! BUT I WAS CHARGED FOR IT! The instructors were **** poor, except for 2 of them. And the best one,,well they fired her,,,seems the same admin woman felt threatened by her so she made up some new rules and told the Dr, yes the Dr instructor that she broke the new rules that she was never told about before she broke them..Everest you lost the best instructor you will ever have there!! Oh gosh I could go on and on I am soooo dm mad right now!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I am going after them, the school and each admin will get their very own summons! I am calling it a "private party" lol...anyone have any advice or know where I can get a entry level job as a medical assistant without the dm certification???? Thanks in advance!!
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by spudbuddy1 October 23, 2010 2:19 PM EDT
wow.
blame blame blame
what a shame.

I suppose some of us need to desperately believe in positive results no matter what (or yellow brick roads, tooth fairies, etc...)

Um, why....? should we get our shorts in a knot over the idea that some such group of highly American entrepreneurs figured out a way to create much fun and profit off ersatz students, perhaps real, or otherwise?
We have a gazzillion such sad examples, the sexiest being the S&L scandal, Enron, the Housing meltdown - and divers other wonderful evolutions of free enter-prize, zombie-style! Yum!

The foxes were let loose in the henhouse...and various surviving chickens are squawking about the true nature of the beasties? Oh please. Take a wee peek at the blood dripping down their sleek muzzles. Go ahead.

Some financial psycho is always going to come along and figure out how to scam somebody somehow. It's the American way. It started with PT Barnum I suppose...only the stakes have raised somewhat.

But we should at least admit to ourselves - barring a certain amount of folks who were probably only ever going to do well churning out Chevies or fruits of the loom....
That our job market does not NEED the um, educations - of these graduates.
(somebody's lying somewhere)
shhhhh.

There it is.
Reply to this comment
by spudbuddy1 October 23, 2010 2:13 PM EDT
wow.
blame blame blame
what a shame.

I suppose some of us need to desperately believe in positive results no matter what (or yellow brick roads, tooth fairies, etc...)

Um, why....? should we get our shorts in a knot over the idea that some such group of highly American entrepreneurs figured out a way to create much fun and profit off ersatz students, perhaps real, or otherwise?
We have a gazzillion such sad examples, the sexiest being the S&L scandal, Enron, the Housing meltdown - and divers other wonderful evolutions of free enter-prize, zombie-style! Yum!

The foxes were let loose in the henhouse...and various surviving chickens are squawking about the true nature of the beasties? Oh please. Take a wee peek at the blood dripping down their sleek muzzles. Go ahead.

Some financial psycho is always going to come along and figure out how to scam somebody somehow. It's the American way. It started with PT Barnum I suppose...only the stakes have raised somewhat.

But we should at least admit to ourselves - barring a certain amount of folks who were probably only ever going to do well churning out Chevies or fruits of the loom....
That our job market does not NEED the um, educations - of these graduates.
(somebody's lying somewhere)
shhhhh.

There it is.
Reply to this comment
by 1Hopefilled September 19, 2010 1:06 PM EDT
I too have had a very bad experience with a For Profit School. ATI Career Training Center in Dallas did much the same thing to me. They advertised itself as an institution of higher learning. It was supposed to help those seeking a new start with a new career path. They did none of that. They took and are taking my money, in the form of loan payments, for services not provided and further more they have made it less likely that I can ever us what I was taught over a 10 month period by not allowing me to graduate even though I completed all requirements. I would love you to look into not just this institution other like it which, unlike colleges and tech schools, are more interested in making money then make dreams of a new start, a new career come true. It is truly a shame that these business (lets call them what they are) exist. It my hope that they are forced to change or forced to go out of business for the sake of all of those who simply want a viable alternative to a 2 or 4 year college or trade school.
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by newsterI September 9, 2010 12:15 PM EDT
"It's definitely a false American dream," says Zuver. "I can't get a job, I'm in debt and living at home."

Welcome to reality sweetheart, the economy if you didn't notice is in the toilet, and NO ONE is hiring anyone, unless you count temp day farm laborers and the like, but you aren't going to find a job even with a criminal justice degree, there's a glut of people in that field, cops and others are being laid OFF left and right.

"criminal justice degree she says many police agencies don't recognize."

So what you did was enrolled, ran up $84,000 in student fees for a degree you never checked out or researched if the department or agencies you intended to apply for a job at even recognized this.
Smart cookies ASK QUESTIONS first and research, you go and ASK those in the field "is this degree something your department requires or would recognize?"
You follow that up with another question like "what degrees and training does your department require or desire in applicats for a ________position?"
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by isis2123 September 7, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
Okay, seriously? I work for one of these for profit schools and know for a FACT these students know how much money they are spending. Not only does Sallie Mae OR Direct Loans send out quarterly statements telling students how much they've borrowed, but the financial aid department sends out an award letter to students every time we award them aid. Quit acting like victims. You know what you got yourself into.

PS: These are not 'Wal-Mart' degrees. They are valid. People should also do their research before making such claims. If you get bad grades in school and/or suck at art, you aren't going to get a job no matter where you spend your federal aid.
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by cbell54 September 7, 2010 9:32 PM EDT
I would like to let you know that not all the students look at everything sent their way, which is pretty much the same with the general public. Many people, when borrowing money don't really think about the reality of paying it back down the road. The focus is more on "what am I getting right here, right now that I have to deal with(?)" for more people than you might want to believe.

I know I didn't read all my mortgage or car loan papers, did you? Every piece of them? I looked at the places the realtor or car salesman pointed out to me that were extremely important (that are required by their respective laws to do so during negotiations), and of course at where I had to sign. However, when it came to that page that showed how much I was really borrowing and how much I would end up really paying back, I just turned a blind eye, to pretend that didn't really exist.

I know from talking to folks about these matters, that I don't just happen to have the only original idea about signing financial contracts of any kind. And I know when I was younger, I never thought about the "real, hard facts reality" of much of anything at all. This has been part of the whole American Dream's problem in recent decades: the "feed me now" and "I'll figure out how to make more food later" idea runs rampant amongst generations of people in today's world (at least 2 to 3 of them).

I never got quarterly statements from Edmondson Junior College, and I only got my award statements through the school's office. Of course, that was back in 1989-1991.

Nice of you to be very judgmental about folks here acting like victims. I am only reporting exactly the facts, as I stated in my first response, as well as what I stated to the Consumer Affairs Division (CAD) of the State of Tennessee and on a local, National TV Affiliate story about the CAD that showcased the plight of 100s of students enrolled in Edmondson at the time the story broke.

No, I didn't know what I got myself into. I was very busy working a full time job and a part time job on the weekends. I was 36 years old at the time, and very well versed in the corporate world, working at the middle-management level, and as an assistant to high-powered lawyers at the largest lawfirm in Nashville during my last year at school...and I still didn't look at my own paperwork. I didn't have time, and if I had, I would still have been too knackered to take it all in.

Please take an empathy course. Perhaps if a person got "bad grades" or "suck"(ed), as you stated, it might be as a result of some mental or emotional problems. It has taken me until age 55 to believe in such a thing as PTSD having such an affect on our population as it does. Once I began to gain more empathic understanding for why our country is in the mess it is in on so many fronts, I stopped wagging my finger in other people's faces.

It hurts!
by isis2123 September 8, 2010 11:57 AM EDT
I will not empathize with people who continuously play the victim. I'm sorry you ran into issues when you went to school, but I firmly believe that if you WANT to succeed you CAN no matter the circumstance. There are all kinds of options including taking a semester off of school and dropping to part-time status. You can't make excuses for failure or you will never succeed. I work full time go to school full time and am trying to get a novel I wrote published and my GPA is still a 3.5. I also have children and a home to take care of on top of everything else. I want to be successful, so I make the time to do what I need to do. Regarding reading what you sign...you should ALWAYS do that no matter how pressed for time you are and no matter how much you get to look at. It's just smart.
by nkawtgLV September 7, 2010 12:16 PM EDT
I have a degree with UOP and in all honesty I am quite satisfied with the results. There is a level of responsibility when it comes to an education, and if your going to sit through the class and not participate, or attempt to skate through, then you will get out of it what you put in.
My instructors were all excellent, the course material was relevent, and if you work hard, five weeks per course is fine.
As for the large number of defaults on student loans, I challenge the authors to post an addendum to the story showing default rates on Not-For-Profit schools. I'll bet they are about the same.

In short, there are bad schools anywhere you look, for profit or not. This story is nothing more than a hit job on for-profit schools to support this administrations policy which would prevent students at for-profit schools like University of Phoenix from having the same access to grants and student loans as traditional universities. Under these new rules, students would get aid for community colleges, state schools, and private universities.
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by nkawtgLV September 7, 2010 12:24 PM EDT
My last line didn't make it.
Add to the end:
but not for-profit schools. This is wrong and they know it. Not-for profit schools do not offer working adult education opportunities so hundreds of thousands of hard working people would be denied the opportunity to further their education because of this administration's anti-business attitude.
by ncjeepgal September 7, 2010 12:03 PM EDT
A college degree does not guarantee a job. Students at non-profit schools are often in the same situation. For-profit schools are expensive, but often give you the opportunity to start classes every month and get one-on-one service from staff and faculty.
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by strtjns September 6, 2010 11:03 AM EDT
College tuition increases will continue as the economy continues to falter. Most people believe that a good college education will be the answer to their prayers and many institutions capitalize on this. Cost do rise as we all know, but the cost of an education seems to rise more quickly than other expenses. Every parent wants to see their child graduate college and certainly does not want to be responsible for their failure to get a degree because of money.

Finding free college scholarships and grants for high school students is not a simple task, however, thanks to some government programs available and with the help of the college or university that you expect to attend, there are some free college scholarships and grants available if you know where and how to research these programs.

That being said, there are other alternatives to finance college tuition in scholarships, grants and awards that should be reviewed to see what you may qualify for. One source that I found helpful is located here.

http://www.freecollegetuition.financebusinessadvice.com/
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by K. Daraa September 6, 2010 9:05 AM EDT
The article stated, "The industry now educates 10 percent of all college students, 1.8 million."

I had no idea the US university system educated 18 million students a year. That is big business in itself!

The not-for-profit US universities haved assessed an average 10 percent price raise each year for decades on tuition rates. Why? Why are the university trust funds so huge? Some hold tens of billions of dollars in assets.

I believe that not-for-profit universities produce many useless, empty degree holders too. After all, how many of the 50,000 plus marine biology undergrads in the US will get one of the 125 jobs open each year in that career field?

We need some sort of pragmatic balance or restructuring of the system to produce people attuned and trained for vital jobs in needed fields of industry, science, commerce
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