Data Puts Another Prius Crash in Question

(CBS/AP)  The "black box" data from a 2005 Toyota Prius that crashed in suburban New York March 9 showed that the driver did not apply the brakes as claimed.

A female housekeeper in Harrison, N.Y. had told police that she had been easing her employer's car out of the driveway when it took off on its own, crashing into a wall across the street.

On Wednesday, investigators from Toyota and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration - treating the case as another potential example of dangerous "unintended acceleration" that has plagued certain Toyota models - inspected the car.

But on Thursday a NHTSA spokesman, speaking to CBS News Radio's John Hartge, said that the car's event data recorder "indicated there was no application of the brakes and the throttle was fully open."

The car's front end was smashed in, its hood bent upward; it had a broken bumper and headlight, a flat tire and heavy scratches around its Toyota logo, but the driver was not hurt. "This car was preserved well, and it's the best evidence so far, I believe, that anybody's had an opportunity to evaluate," Harrison Police Department Capt. Anthony Marraccini said.

A recent spate of accidents involving Toyota's Prius model has exacerbated scrutiny on the automaker, which has recalled more than 8 million cars since last fall because their gas pedals could become stuck.or be held down by floor mats. The Prius hasn't been recalled for sticky accelerators. However, the wrecked Prius had been repaired for the floor mat problem.

The government is looking into complaints from at least 60 Toyota drivers who say they got their cars fixed and still had problems. Toyota is checking into those complaints as well.

More on Toyota's Troubles:

Complaints Over Fixed Toyotas Jump to 105
Toyota: Prius in NY Crash Yielding Data
Toyota Recall Spending Ranges in Billions
Toyota: Data Refutes Runaway Prius Story
NHTSA: We Can't Explain Runaway Prius
Doubts Persist on Runaway Prius Story
Calif. Prius Driver's Story Stirs Skeptics
Calif. Prosecutor Sues Toyota Over Defects

At the same time, Toyota has implied that it is suspicious of a recent spike in accounts of unintended acceleration and other problems following the negative publicity the company has received for its recalls.

"Claims of unintended acceleration have inexplicably skyrocketed," Toyota spokesman Mike Michels said Monday.

The Harrison investigation follows Toyota's probe into the claims of a California driver who said he was unable to stop his runaway Prius on a freeway last week until a state trooper helped him. The company held a news conference Monday and said the driver's account was substantially different from its findings.

Toyota said tests on James Sikes' car showed its gas pedal, backup safety system and electronics were working fine. It was unable to replicate the stuck gas pedal that Sikes reported.

The automaker said Monday that it found owner James Sikes rapidly pressed the gas and brakes back and forth 250 times, the maximum amount of data that the car's self-diagnostic system can collect. That account appears to contradict Sikes' statements - backed by the California Highway Patrol - that he slammed the brakes, even lifting his buttocks off the seat.

Toyota officials said they believed Sikes hit the pedals lightly, which would have prevented a brake-override system from kicking in. Under the Prius design, engine power is cut if the brake pedal is pressed with moderate force.

Toyota stopped short of saying that Sikes fabricated his story.

"We have no opinion on his account, what he's been saying, other than the scenario is not consistent with the technical findings," Michels said at a news conference.

[DavidCChipman]

As someone who is a fan of Green Technology, this whole thing is very frustrating.

But a solution may come from another interest of mine: Open Source Software. Not so much the software that has been the "leading" example of Open Source (the Linux kernel and the GNU-derived tools run to communicate with it, Apache web server, etc.) but the way those things are developed. Some things need to be opened up for scrutiny from the wider automotive engineering "community".

Is Toyota's Hybrid "SynergyDrive"(TM), for example, really ground-breaking "rocket science"-type stuff when fully described to other automotive engineers? They themselves may be tasked with developing such a system for their automaker-employers. Assuming for the sake of argument, that Toyota are ignorant arse-covering yellow scoundrels, it's the implementation that has problems, not the ideas being implemented.

Some things to think about....

[tooloose2]

CBS get out of Toyota pockets.

[iirishamerican]

Its sad when you have to sift through the liers that are just trying to make a buck makes it much more difficult to pin point the problem and then it makes it that much worse for people that really do have issues with their accelerator. I believe there are problems with sudden acceleration in toyotas but I would say 8/10 claims are liers. All these liers and in begins to deminish the claims of the people really telling the truth.

[Robin081564]

NoJoy,

Another Systems Analyst here to support your assessment. Your logical theory holds much more water than any of the emotional outbursts I have heard hear.

Is it possible that, all of these claims can be dismissed as "user error" and/or mass-hysteria fed by a few attempts at scamming Toyota? ..yes, it may be. But, in the context of the greater story...not likely.

I don't trust the data in the logs... garbage in, garbage out. The logs only show what the comptuer logged based on information input via switches and sensors. If those components, their wiring, or even individual components of the computer fail, then it may log what it thinks is happening, not what is actually happening.

[steveherb1]

Liability or full coverage? The recall being fixed or not becomes product liability when a patterns occur. It's not left to the consumer to pay out of pocket for lawyers and investigations. Toyota conflict is human error vrs computer error. We'll Ford fires are not human error but we still hide the subject and stiff the consumer. My crusie control recall was fixed and still burned.

[Robin081564]

Apparantly, journalists and spokespersons don't have much experience with trouble shooting system failures.

If there is a system failure going on here, it is likely that the problem is coming from the computer being fed bad information from switches and sensors. This could be due to many possible types of hardware/wiring problems. And if this is happening, the data in the computers logs will not accurately reflect what was happening at the time of the incident. Instead, it will reflect what it was being told by the faulty sensors. What systems analysts refer to as "garbage in... garbage out."

It is also possible that a software failure could produce simlar results. That is to say that once a software bug has followed an inappropriate path, it could easily result in not only "unintended acceleration" but also, inappropriate logging as well.

In my line of work, I spend a lot of my time troubleshooting system failures and I can tell you that these sort of things are common. The bad news is, logs don't always tell you what was actually goin on at the time of the system failure. The good news is that they may tell you what the computer thought was going on at the time.

Is it also possible that the log is accurate...? Yes. Of course it is. But, given the context of the situation. With all the reports of malfunctions, I would have to take the cautious approach and assume that the system users are telling the truth for now, rather than dismissing claims as misunderstandings, "user error", or outright lies.

[tsigili]

Drivers who are shocked by unexpected behavior from their vehicles, react in a panicked way, and may not even know what they did. That doesn't mean, there was NOT a problem with the vehicle.

Toyota is doing everything they can, to discredit drivers, instead of fixing their cars.

[CincyJazzy]

Toyota is letting the police and gov hand this investigation. Some people, like yourself, will simply NEVER accept that it could have been human error. After all, humans are perfect.

[jackp32]

The great unwashed looking for a free payday are beginning to be ID'd. I hope they are prosecuted for attempted fraud or whatever.

[magnumdr]

Who cares what the driver did or didnt do. This dosent ever happen to my chevrolet and never will. Sombody has to stop these car makers right now and make them take full responsibility before more innocent people are killed.

[lbsghd]

Or stop the people who are trying to take advantage of the situation...

[CincyJazzy]

People need to take responsibility when they screw up and stop blaming the automakers. And I saying it's ALWAYS the owners fault? NO, but there is data concluding "sudden acceleration" is driver error.

[BleavellB]

This is who is running Toyota right now, and how they conduct their business:

http://www.bob2thebone.com/Photos/VideoViewer.aspx?MonkeyFight&T=S

Absolutely ridiculous!! Their ad campaign circled around "quality" vehicles worked really well, however the truth is the truth...