Docs: Toyota Surges Related to Electronics
A federal grand jury in New York has subpoenaed documents related to the sudden acceleration problems on some of Toyota's cars.
Toyota's president will testify before Congress Wednesday. He'll likely be asked about an internal company memo that shows the car manufacturer saved $100 million in 2007 by persuading government regulators to narrow their investigation. The regulators agreed to just a limited recall.
Congress already has thousands of pages of Toyota documents to sift through, but CBS News obtained one internal document that could be devastating to Toyota's claims that electronics aren't at issue.
CBS News has learned that as early as 2005 Toyota engineers were redesigning software in response to complaints of cars surging unexpectedly, reports CBS News Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson.
That could be crucial because publicly Toyota has insisted for six years - through eight federal investigations - that electronics are not to blame when its cars surge, sometimes out of control.
Instead, Toyota faults drivers, floor mats and - more recently - sticky gas pedals.
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The internal document obtained by CBS News appears to contradict Toyota's claims. Dating back five years, it tracks Toyota's "monthly progress" in addressing "Surging back and forth sensation at constant throttle" in 2006 Lexus hybrids like the RX400h model. Toyota engineer Masahiro Ikeda notes surging "between 39-44 miles per hour" and "at 70 mph." The "fix"? Redesigning software for the car's Electronic Control Unit or ECU. "Software planned for first week in August," the internal document says.
In a response on Monday, Toyota acknowledged the internal reports of surging and the software fix. But a spokesman said it wasn't a problem of unintended acceleration; it was a more subtle rocking sensation that caused a seasick feeling and was fixed for customer comfort.
Experts say a glitch in Toyota's "Electronic Throttle Control System" would be much more expensive and problematic than faulty floor mats.
Two sensors measure the position of the accelerator pedal under the driver's foot.
"If it's an electrical problem, which I believe it is, then it really means that we have to question the whole way that the systems are constructed," electrical engineer Antony Anderson said.
So far, Toyota has recalled 7.475 million vehicles for supposed sticky pedals and floor mats. But those vehicles - and millions more on the road - have the electronic throttle control system at issue in the company's own report in 2005.
Copyright 2010 CBS. All rights reserved. Toyota's president will testify before Congress Wednesday. He'll likely be asked about an internal company memo that shows the car manufacturer saved $100 million in 2007 by persuading government regulators to narrow their investigation. The regulators agreed to just a limited recall.
Congress already has thousands of pages of Toyota documents to sift through, but CBS News obtained one internal document that could be devastating to Toyota's claims that electronics aren't at issue.
CBS News has learned that as early as 2005 Toyota engineers were redesigning software in response to complaints of cars surging unexpectedly, reports CBS News Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson.
That could be crucial because publicly Toyota has insisted for six years - through eight federal investigations - that electronics are not to blame when its cars surge, sometimes out of control.
Instead, Toyota faults drivers, floor mats and - more recently - sticky gas pedals.
Analysis: Car Companies Hope to Avoid Toyota's Fate
Feds Open Criminal Probe into Toyota
Docs: Toyota Boasted of Skirting Recalls
Toyota President Reverses; Will Testify
Tiger Woods vs. Toyota: Who's Cleaning Up Better?
The internal document obtained by CBS News appears to contradict Toyota's claims. Dating back five years, it tracks Toyota's "monthly progress" in addressing "Surging back and forth sensation at constant throttle" in 2006 Lexus hybrids like the RX400h model. Toyota engineer Masahiro Ikeda notes surging "between 39-44 miles per hour" and "at 70 mph." The "fix"? Redesigning software for the car's Electronic Control Unit or ECU. "Software planned for first week in August," the internal document says.
In a response on Monday, Toyota acknowledged the internal reports of surging and the software fix. But a spokesman said it wasn't a problem of unintended acceleration; it was a more subtle rocking sensation that caused a seasick feeling and was fixed for customer comfort.
Experts say a glitch in Toyota's "Electronic Throttle Control System" would be much more expensive and problematic than faulty floor mats.
Two sensors measure the position of the accelerator pedal under the driver's foot.
"If it's an electrical problem, which I believe it is, then it really means that we have to question the whole way that the systems are constructed," electrical engineer Antony Anderson said.
So far, Toyota has recalled 7.475 million vehicles for supposed sticky pedals and floor mats. But those vehicles - and millions more on the road - have the electronic throttle control system at issue in the company's own report in 2005.
to unintended acceleration shows how little they know about automobiles
and they are doing the public a disservice by reporting as so.they are not the same. TCroly1 had it right. Do your homework CBS.
You would think they would have learned from 60 minuets horrible handling of Audi years ago. sensationalism and not journalism.
Try to think of the "surging " as what it feels like when your transmission changes gears and you can feel the subtle buck to the cars forward progress. Hundreds of times a second the car's computer is adjusting the air fuel mixture to achieve the best fuel economy and transmit the least engine vibrations to the driver based on dozens of input sensors. sometimes it does this jpb better than others.
I understand that the general consumer does not understand the complexities of a modern fuel injected computer controlled car and an article like this one only serves to confuse the average person and cause hysteria.
While I agree that computerized cars do have there share of problems, I'll point out two things:
1) The older manual cars weren't perfect either. They had more than there share of design problems resulting in crashes and deaths. Lets us not forget the infamous Corvair.
2) Computers are just another tool for getting a job done, they are neither good nor bad in and of themselves. The important thing is to engineer the total system properly. This is true for cars with or without computers. Unfortunately, the corporate demand to make huge profits is all to often the REAL reason why systems are designed poorly. Toyota certainly could have produced a more robust throttle, but I suspect they cut corners to buffer their profit.
If you can agree with the above, then don't be so quick to cast computers in a bad light. The real issue is companies degrading their engineering in favor of profits.
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I'm not casting them aside, but it is too easy to tamper with them and to screw them up. You should never rely on computers for matters such as this, but you do have a point.
Unlike the automobile industry, the free-fall community analyzes what goes wrong after every fatality and publishes the conclusions so that future equipment and techniques can avoid repeating lethal mistakes.
I don't mind having a computer chip help me with the brakes, steering, air-conditioning, or anything else. What I do find wrong is when the designers fail to build in a simple mechanical over-ride system; one in which I can save my own life should their more complex systems fail. Arrogance costs lives.
Why don't we just get on with it. The US DOT needs to obtain a subpoena for the system involved, and totally dissect and evaluate the hardware and software to determine what is happening; this stuff is not magic. Congress is not going to solve the problem, nor is a grand jury. Turn some good independent engineers loose and get it done!
Back in the day there used to be nothing but room under the hood, unless you had a really good engine. But, now you have to remove half of the engine to get to the engine. There's too much relying on computers. GPS is nice for some, OnStar is also a nice feature. However, all of this calling people, all of this push the gas and an electronic sensor will tell the engine how much gas to burn is one step too far.
Hell, if they went back to the models of the 40's and 50's, I imagine with all of the curves on the actual car, (if you thin the metal or use different metal) you could save a ton because the curves would cut the air better.
Keep OnStar, GPS, Seatbelts, Airbags, and the radio functions. Can the rest, it's just dead weight that could be sucking gas.
Another thing, your AC uses gas, but your defroster doesn't and when set to cold is often colder than your AC.
1) The older manual cars weren't perfect either. They had more than there share of design problems resulting in crashes and deaths. Lets us not forget the infamous Corvair.
2) Computers are just another tool for getting a job done, they are neither good nor bad in and of themselves. The important thing is to engineer the total system properly. This is true for cars with or without computers. Unfortunately, the corporate demand to make huge profits is all to often the REAL reason why systems are designed poorly. Toyota certainly could have produced a more robust throttle, but I suspect they cut corners to buffer their profit.
If you can agree with the above, then don't be so quick to cast computers in a bad light. The real issue is companies degrading their engineering in favor of profits.
Conservatives just don't know the Safety of Americans is more important than the Profits of Big Corporations like Toyota.
Give me break man! Why does an article about Toyota require political pop shots. People like you (both DEMs and GOPs) are spending WAY too much time getting yourselves pissed at the other.
Find something better to do with your time and stop listen the hate mongers who are whipping up the mindless into a state of rage.
GW BUSH WAS THE PRESIDENT ON 2007!