November 24, 2009 11:52 PM

Fact Check: Health Care Reform Claims

By
Nancy Cordes
(CBS)  Congress has begun its Thanksgiving break, with Senate Democrats going home thankful they cleared a major hurdle on health care reform after voting to open a floor debate when they get back next week.

Meanwhile, debate continues all over the airwaves about what the House and Senate bills would really mean for ordinary Americans. CBS News congressional correspondent Nancy Cordes has a reality check.

Add the Senate and House bills together and they are 4,064 pages worth of reforms that Democrats say will revolutionize the health care system and Republicans say will bankrupt it.

No wonder many Americans have doubts. Citizens told us they think Congress is "Rushing it through. They should give it more thought," and, "I don't think I want a public option because I don't think the government handles things too well."

Concerns run so deep, that the most recent CBS News poll shows only 40 percent of Americans approve of the proposed health care plans in Congress while 45 percent disapprove.

Special Report: Health Care Reform

Polls show one of their main concerns is the price tag: around $1 trillion over 10 years. Reality check takes a closer look.

Claim: The health care proposals will boost the deficit

Fact: That's not true, according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office which analyzed both health reform bills. CBS News found the Senate bill would not only pay for itself, through a raft of cuts and taxes, but would actually reduce the deficit by $130 billion over 10 years. Likewise, the House bill would put $138 billion back into the budget.

But there's a catch, say Republicans. They argue Democrats artificially lowered the cost of reform by imposing new taxes years before the tax credits would kick in to help Americans buy insurance.

Missouri Sen. Kit Bond said, "Move over, Bernie Madoff. Tip your hat to a trillion-dollar scam."

Then there's the question of who pays.

Claim: Taxes will go up for everyone

Fact: That's true. But Democrats contend the bills' major taxes are aimed at the wealthiest Americans. The Senate bill, for example, boosts the Medicare payroll tax, but only for individuals making more than $200,000 a year, while the House bill hits those making more than $500,000 with a 5.4 percent surtax on income.

Republicans argue that many of the other proposed taxes - on medical device and drug makers, or on high-cost insurance plans - will quickly get passed along to consumers.

"The truth that nobody will say is, that's how it's supposed to work," said Maya Macguineas of the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. "The only way that we're going to create better incentives in health care is if people understand some of the costs."

Meanwhile, by a 4 to 1 margin, the CBS News poll shows seniors are the most concerned that health care reform will hurt, not help them.

Claim: Reform will hurt Medicare

Fact: There will be cuts. The bills would make significant cuts to Medicare - in the case of the House bill, $573 billion worth of cuts over 10 years.

That's achieved primarily by slowing the growth in Medicare payments to hospitals, nursing homes and rehab centers. Democrats say it's a way to encourage quality of care over quantity.

But the government's Centers for Medicare and Medicaid warn the move might lead hospitals to "end their participation" in Medicare.

What many Americans are wondering, of course, is what they're getting in return for all these cuts and taxes. Will health care reform actually reduce health care costs?

Claim: Reform won't cut health care costs

Fact: No one knows. The fact is, no one knows whether reform would bend the cost curve downward or drive some premiums up. And then there are other problems. That hotly debated public insurance option would only cover an estimated 3 to 6 million people and wouldn't kick in for 4 or 5 years. Plus both the Senate and House bills would leave at least 12 million Americans uninsured.

The real strength of the plans, experts say, lies in the generous tax credits that will help millions of low- and middle-income Americans pay for their health insurance.

"I think the most important part of all of the bills is that it recognizes that health insurance for families is a matter of affordability," said Diane Rowland of the Kaiser Family Foundation.

When it comes to health care reform, Americans may be uncertain about the details, but 8 in 10 tell CBS News there is a need for fundamental change.

Congress, however, is finding that the path toward health care reform is not as clear as the nation's wish to get there.

Copyright 2009 CBS. All rights reserved.
  • Nancy Cordes

    Nancy Cordes is CBS News' congressional correspondent.

Add a Comment See all 142 Comments
by reveal4 November 25, 2009 6:19 PM EST
Lack of compassion in regard to the suffering and deaths of the poorer and uninsured is not a sign of strength of character. Lack of compassion is a clear signpost for psychological peculiarity.
Reply to this comment
by velma179 November 25, 2009 4:23 PM EST
by chevyhotrod November 25, 2009 11:33 AM EST
G-Dub was not a conservative; he was a compassionate conservative, whatever that means.

***********

Yes George W. Bush identified himself as a conservative, as did the Republican party he headed as POTUS during his two terms.

In Mr. Bush's assessment, of his own philosophy -- the word "compassionate" is a MODIFIER, "conservative" is the NOUN. Therefore compassionate is the TYPE of conservative he claimed to be -- a nice caring, empathetic conservative

He DID indeed (as did his party) claim the POLICY status of fiscal conservative, though his/their actions clearly did not live up to the claims.


********

There is very little actual conserving of funds done in any of our governing entities -- federal, state or local by any kind of elected representative (R), (D), (I) etc.
Being fiscally conservative in America today (the whole world is catching on as well) is simply a "policy" issue, not a real life event.


Now -- after saying all of that, we have to face the fact, we have only one criteria for RESPONSIBLE Government... that is, "What is our money paying for?"

If the funding is to enhance the lives and posterity of the people (justice, defense, tranquility, general welfare...etc. -- you get the reference, I hope) we can understand that it does have VALUE.

Looking at VALUE rather than COST is essential in order to make informed economic decisions in today's world.

_________

By the way -- working at a job that provides you health insurance is a benefit many Americans now have.

IF we do not get the rapidly expanding costs of health care and health insurance under control -- companies will need to stop offering such benefits, lower the benefit rates OR stop paying [some] salaries in order to remain economically viable.

chevyhotrod, you say you have been working a long time. I am sorry to inform you that it is the older worker that is across the board, "let go" first. Not only are the younger workers often more up to date in skill sets, they have more "future" with the company AND they are healthier and will cost less to insure.


So please think about this health care reform and use some objective thought. And while you are gathering so many quotes, remember the one that says: "Be careful what you wish for."


PS -- WE are paying our parents bills, I think our kids will be fine following through --- mine are cool with it. Family is like that.


Take care and have a very blessed Thanksgiving. <<< That is for everyone...
Reply to this comment
by Lawyers-Guns-n-Money-01 November 25, 2009 2:52 PM EST
by chevyhotrod November 25, 2009 11:33 AM EST
G-Dub was not a conservative; he was a compassionate conservative, whatever that means.

Our country is going broke with all these entitlement programs.

The amount of interest that the US will pay alone in the next couple of years is going to be greater than the amount of taxes collected.

Talk about a sad and shallow commentary, where will we be then Mr. Lawyers-Guns-N-Money?

Talk about being a slave to the government? Is that what you want?

Where is the common sense? From both parties?
====================================================================

Fiscal conservatives (inasmuch as Republicans claim a monopoly on the term) are a myth. Yeah, politicians sure talk a good game but really, can you name a conservative president? I'd submit you'd have to go all the way back to Coolidge or maybe Cleveland to find an actual fiscal conservative.
Reply to this comment
by reveal4 November 25, 2009 1:52 PM EST
The chant from the super wealthy that to allow medical care for tens of thousands is looking for a handout is truly pathetic...just pathetic. The natcissism and sociopathy of the rich is stunningly immoral. I feel no pity for the rich who deny medical care to individuals and leave them in the streets to die penniless and unmercifully so the rich folkl can have more of what the do not need.The situation is immoral and we will not stop in reform efforts. We will do all we can to reduce the deficit, lower long term medical costs, stop the doubling of insurance premium costs, and to stop the deaths of uninsured Americans. The Narcissistic Personalities and antisocialism and utterly pathetic amorality of rich folks is more fuel for the fire. We will press forward in spite of the utter lack of compassion and basic humanity of the super rich. We will press forward.
Reply to this comment
by reveal4 November 25, 2009 2:00 PM EST
Rich folks steal every penny from the American citizen, and when an average American in need of medical care is carried to the back door servants entrance of the rich, they utterly disdain morality and tell the sick person to quit looking for a handout, they tell the sick person to go out and work harder, and to not impose on those who have everything and will not give any extra penny to save the life of any injured or sick American. And they have no conscience to deal with. They have no morality. Greed is their American dream. They accomplish their American dream and do not have any concern about throwing the peasantry to the wolves to be torn asunder. I have no compassion for the elites as they do not have any compassion for poorer, uninsured, and unemployed Americans.
by chevyhotrod November 25, 2009 2:53 PM EST
"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."

"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude"

Thomas Jefferson

The narcissism and sociopathic exist within one?s self and cannot be projected onto others.

I feel no pity for individuals that have become dependent upon government for their fortunes.

The Narcissistic Personalities and antisocialism and utterly pathetic amorality praying upon the half vs the half not?s is class warfare in its highest form and should be treated as such.

Compassion and basic humanity is teaching a man to fish instead of feeding him a fish dinner.

Who gets to decide what they do not need and what they need? The you and the government?

To die penniless and unmercifully is dependent upon the individual, not society.
by lakota2012 November 25, 2009 1:43 PM EST
by chevyhotrod:
You are nothing but a socialist/communist.

We were talking about Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement and Modernization Act.
====================================





HA!..HA!..HA!....So you are above labeling and name calling...NO!

You're the one that loves to label and name-call, and divert the debate on health care reform, especially as I have already shown that CONCIERGE MEDICINE will be the downfall of American health care, where the wealthiest will continue to get the best health care for the Almighty American dollar, and America will fall below 37th in the world in health care.

Sorry, I personally don't like the current health care reform bills or the cap and trade idiocy, and see the need for the whole system to fail completely before we see REAL REFORM as the divide in America continues to grow even wider. You're just part of the problem!
Reply to this comment
by chevyhotrod November 25, 2009 2:35 PM EST
I meant to say you believe in socialist and communist policies, therefore you are what you eat.

I don't like being called a nazi, loser, teabagger, elite, part of the problem or what ever. Any more then you like being called a socialist/communist.

I have read many post by you and all you have done is label and name call. You should go back and re-read some of your post and then think about what you have posted. It is obvious to all.

Yes, I did call you a socialist. But I am very fustrated that people no longer believe in individual freedom and that the government should control more than half of our economy. Banks, car companies, insurance, healthcare. It's getting really old and scary.

I would bet you would perfer a single payer system?

Doctors should be aloud to charge anywhy they wish. If they prefer to get paid directly from the patient, so be it. Who are you to say how they should be paid and how they shouldn't?

How am I part of the problem? I believe what Thomas Jefferson believe, in smaller government, not larger government.

I have many liberial beliefs, what is happening today is not liberty and freedom.

I am a fical conservative, and I do not wish to pass on any debt to my children or grandchildren, if my kids ever wanted to start a family.

I would prefer to call my self a libertarian.

How is that being part of the problem??????? Think.....

37th in the world in health care is a joke...

I live in Akron, Ohio area, not a very booming town and within the last five years they have built 5 new hospitals within a 15 miles radius of where I live. No lines, the latest CT Scanners, MRI machines all the latest technology. Walk right up and get taken care of, no insurance required. Some of the new emergency rooms even have hard wood floors, Wellness centers second to none. My wife was at the Cleveland Clinic a couple of months ago, there is no place like it in the entire world, second to none.

37th in the world is left leaning propaganda and you know it.

Real reform would involve tort reform, interstate commerce and tax free saving accounts.

The Canadian Health system law is less than 100 pages long, think about that for a minute.
by Regats November 26, 2009 2:50 PM EST
To chevyhotrod:

re:
37th in the world is left leaning propaganda and you know it.

Not exactly. That was from a report by the UN World Health Organization:
(France is #1, with a per-capita cost of health care HALF of what it is in the USA.)

www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

re: I am a fical(sic) conservative, and I do not wish to pass on any debt to my children or grandchildren...

Re-read the CBS article. Did you see this passage?
"..CBS News found the Senate bill would not only pay for itself, through a raft of cuts and taxes, but would actually reduce the deficit...

The ignorance and stupidity of the religious-right never ends, even when the truth is in front of their nose.
by reveal4 November 25, 2009 1:40 PM EST
The teabaggers continue their fight for Wall Street super elites who hoard 80 to 90% of the nation's resources. They want more for the super educated robber barons, and less for the American people. They work against their own interests and are so brainwashed that they do not know the difference.
Reply to this comment
by beeker252 November 25, 2009 2:27 PM EST
The problem stems from the fact most of them are not educated nor understand the complex issues involved. Majority of them tends to voice simplistic thinking on HC. In one example during the protest, a woman said the way to handle health care is to go to the emergency room. The reality is that if you needed a procedure due to an emergency (hospitals are required by law to care for emergencies by those who walks in) and you don't have insurance or other funding, guess who eats the cost.(we all do in form of closure of OR which is currently happening across the country) In one instance a doctor who was practicing for 20 years has said that patients are coming in more sicker than it was 20 years ago.. There should be a balance to fix it without the usual bribery that goes on in Congress.
by chevyhotrod November 25, 2009 3:02 PM EST
"There should be a balance to fix it without the usual bribery that goes on in Congress."

I am thinking US Senator Mary Landrieu (D) La.. Most teabaggers are average American's that pay 30%-40% in taxes as of today.

Healthcare +5% taxes
Cape & Trade +5% taxes
Afganistan +5 taxes
Bush tax repeal +5% taxes

Soon the democratic senate, congress and the white house will be raising our taxes by 20%.

Some will be paying 60-70% in taxes without including state, local and property taxes.

What is left to work for??????????

We are just uneducated fools trying to feed our families and put a roof over their heads, put them through school without the dependency from government.

You choose otherwise...........
by Jerry Brandt November 25, 2009 1:07 PM EST
There is nothing in the Healthcare bill that will help me or my family or you get Healthcare anymore or any better that what is provided now. All I can read in the bill is some one else is going to make your medical decision for you and you will pay more for that decision.
Reply to this comment
by mikeoliphant November 25, 2009 12:36 PM EST
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) released a merged version of the Senate comprehensive reform on 11/19/09,
which Mike Oliphant, whom manages www.benefitsmanager.net for Utah based health insurance plans for employers could get
behind and support some of it (Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, or H.R. 3590).
This should encourage the private sector health insurance carriers to form INSURANCE EXCHANGES which is what we have
done here in Utah. They carry the risk and burden, not the tax payer. See more about this at www.utahhealthplans.info
You would be surprised about the willingness of carriers to co-share risk amongst their immediate competitors. They simply
focus on profit from the 4 to 5 percent administration fees. A government run public option could not achieve this.
Reply to this comment
by reveal4 November 25, 2009 12:34 PM EST
It is truly stunning that the frolks who own 80 to 90% of all the wealth of America complain that folks who support reform are just looking for a handout. We want our fair share of American wealth. We want to stop the hoarding of wealth of the few super elites who make sure that uninsured folks just suffer and die. The absolute narcissism and amorality of the elites is plain for all to see in the comments of those who think saving lives is looking for a free lunch. It is truly pitiful.
Reply to this comment
by chevyhotrod November 25, 2009 1:36 PM EST
reveal,
In America you can choose to get out of bed and go to work and share in the American Dream. No one is stopping anyone from doing this.

I had nothing when I was 19 yrs old, my parents got divorced and the bank foreclosed on our house. Without a dime in my pocket I have worked for the past 23 years, 40-60 hrs a week and saved and earned my way to health insurance, life insurance, car insurance and a million dollar home, a beautiful loving wife, with 3 kids, 6 car garage with a mint Blown 57 Chevy hot rod sitting in my garage.

It can be done, you just have to work for it. Nobody did it for me.

The narcissism is allowing the government and allowing someone else to take care of you.

You want your fair share, EARN IT, don't take it from your neighbors.

The ranks of Americans worth $1 million grew 21% in 2004; the $5 million club grew even faster.

The number of millionaires in America reached record highs in 2004, hitting 7.5 million, according to a new survey.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/05/25/pf/record_millionaires/

Stop complaining and get on with it, it can be done, you just have to work for it.
by Regats November 26, 2009 3:58 PM EST
The gap between the very rich and the very poor is greater now than any time in our history, and more in keeping with a banana republic than a socially advanced republic. The wealthiest business owners have made themselves spectacularly rich by taking American jobs and outsourcing them to cheap but competent labor in Asia. Wealthy wall street magnates have largely caused the homelessness of a million Americans due to foreclosures from mortgage loans that should never have been made, but made they were for a fast buck - and their greed was rewarded with a massive bailout.

The greedpublicans have had their way, distributing the wealth to those least in need. Now it's time to give some of that back.
by lakota2012 November 25, 2009 12:32 PM EST
by chevyhotrod:
G-Dub was not a conservative; he was a compassionate conservative, whatever that means.
=====================================






Just means that dubya and the rest of the republicans felt compassionate towards the wealthy, BIG BIZ and the fascist corporatocracy, and made sure that we experienced the largest transfer of wealth from the U.S. Treasury to the elite of the top 1% of Americans, and all of their close-connected cronies in the military/industrial complex, the for-profit insurance/pharmaceutical industry and especially all those in the fossil fuel industry like BIG OIL.

Yes, "compassionate conservatives" relied upon their base of the wealthiest Americans and those too stupid to vote in their best interests!
Reply to this comment
by chevyhotrod November 25, 2009 1:15 PM EST
lakota,
Big Oil, for profit insurance, fascist, stupid, wealthiest Americans is all you got? blah, blah, blah. Nothing but left wing talking points that mean nothing, but blah, blah, blah.

I have worked 20 years, 40-60 hrs a week to get where I am from nothing. Every American has this opportunity if they work hard and play by the rules. Now you say you want to take that away from me and give it to others that are unwilling to work for it. You cannot make the poor wealthy by making the wealthy poor. We will all be poor, with the new monopoly being government.

You are nothing but a socialist/communist.

We were talking about Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement and Modernization Act.

This does not apply to so called Wealthy Americans. You can only apply to this program if your income is below a certain level.

The largest transfer of wealth is happen right before your eyes, you just do not want to see it.
by lakota2012 November 25, 2009 1:36 PM EST
by chevyhotrod:
Big Oil, for profit insurance, fascist, stupid, wealthiest Americans is all you got?
==================================================





Why do you FAUX NoNooz glenn beck wannabes completely miss the point of corporate welfare entitlements to BIG BIZ while continuing to destroy the middle class and small busineses in America?

BIG OIL continues to get billions of dollars from the taxpayers despite them earning record profits for the past 8 years.

BIG PHARMA continues to reap huge profits from the GOP Medicare Part D, where competition was quashed.

The military/industrial complex of close-connected WAR profiteers continues to reap huge profits from the American WAR machine, like many of the non-competetive no-bid contracts during bushworld.

The for-profit insurance companies continue to frame the debate of health care reform in America, spending $1.5 Million per day this year on lobbying, ads and payoffs, and still is the only industry in America exempt from collusion and anti-trust laws since 1946.

Yeah....the support of the fascist corporatocracy continues to be the status quo that conservatives can worship.
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