Army Doctors Training Hasan Had Concerns

Superiors Discussed his Religious Zeal, Noted Occasional Belligerence Prior to Ft. Hood Assignment

(CBS/AP)  A group of doctors overseeing Nidal Malik Hasan's medical training discussed concerns about his overly zealous religious views and strange behavior months before the Army major was accused of a shooting rampage at Fort Hood, Texas, that left 13 dead and 29 wounded.

Doctors and staff overseeing Hasan's training viewed him at times as belligerent, defensive and argumentative in his frequent discussions of his Muslim faith, a military official familiar with several group discussions about Hasan said. The official was not authorized to speak publicly about the meetings and spoke on condition of anonymity.

Hasan was characterized in meetings as a mediocre student and lazy worker, a matter of concern among the doctors and staff at Walter Reed Army the Medical Center and Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, a military medical school in Bethesda, Maryland, the official said.

The concerns about Hasan's performance and religious views were shared with other military officials considering his assignment after he finished his medical training, and the consensus was to send the 39-year-old psychiatrist to Fort Hood, the official said.

If this report is true, this is not just an ethical violation, it's a legal one, officials tell CBS News correspondent Kimberly Dozier.

More Coverage of the Tragedy at Fort Hood:

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Fort Hood Hero Recalls "Chaotic" Scene
The Government Blame Game
FBI Searches for Missed Clues
Ft. Hood Shooting: Composure Under Fire
Radical Imam's Web Site Praises Hasan
Fort Hood Reflects, but Work Carries On
Hasan Computer Shows No Terror Ties
List of Fort Hood Dead, Wounded

Fort Hood, one of the country's largest military installations, was considered the best assignment for Hasan because other doctors could handle the workload if he continued to perform poorly and his superiors could document any continued behavior problems, the official said.

The group saw no evidence that Hasan was violent or a threat. It was more that he repeatedly referred to his strong religious views in discussions with classmates, his superiors and even in his research work, the official said. His behavior, while at times perceived as intense and combative, was not unlike the zeal of others with strong religious views. But some doctors and staff were concerned that their unfamiliarity with the Muslim faith would lead them to unfairly single out Hasan's behavior, the official said.

Some in the group questioned Hasan's sympathies as an Army psychiatrist, whether he would be more aligned with Muslims fighting U.S. troops. And there was some concern about whether he should continue to serve in the military, the official said.

Sharon Willis, a spokeswoman for the Uniformed Services University, referred questions Wednesday about Hasan to his lawyer. The attorney, John Galligan of Belton, Texas, did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment.

The revelations about the concerns that Hasan's superiors had before sending him to Fort Hood come amid a growing debate over what warning signs the military and law enforcement officials might have missed before last week's massacre.

A joint terrorism task force overseen by the FBI learned late last year of Hasan's repeated contact with a radical Muslim cleric who encouraged Muslims to kill U.S. troops in Iraq. The FBI said in a statement late Wednesday that the task force did not refer early information about Hasan to superiors because it concluded he wasn't linked to terrorism.

The doctors and staff who discussed concerns about Hasan had several group conversations about him that started in early 2008 during regular monthly meetings and ended as he was finishing a fellowship in disaster and preventive psychology this summer, the official familiar with the discussions said.

They saw no signs of mental problems, no risk factors that would predict violent behavior. And the group discussed other factors that suggested Hasan would continue to thrive in the military, factors that mitigated their concerns, the official said.

(However, a person familiar with the discussions who spoke to NPR said there had been some talk of whether Hasan suffered from mental problems: "Put it this way, everybody felt that if you were deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, you would not want Nidal Hasan in your foxhole," the person said.)

According to the official, records reviewed by Hasan's superiors described nearly 20 years of military service, including nearly eight years as an enlisted soldier; completion of three rigorous medical school programs, albeit as a student the group characterized in their discussions as mediocre; his resilience after the deaths of his parents early in his medical education, and an otherwise polite and gentle nature when not discussing religion.

The Army has said it has no record of enlisted service for Hasan, instead noting that his military service began when he started the medical school program in 1997.

The official said the group became increasingly concerned about Hasan's religious views after he completed two research projects that took a decidedly religious tone - one at the end of his residency at Walter Reed that advocated allowing Muslim soldiers to be released as conscientious objectors instead of fighting in wars against other Muslims, and the other as he pursued his master's degree in public health that discussed religious conflicts for Muslim U.S. soldiers.

Some in the group shared their experiences with Hasan, all telling similar stories about repeated instances when he made religion an issue.

Officials involved at various times in the meetings about Hasan included John Bradley, Walter Reed's chief of psychiatry; Scott Moran, Walter Reed's psychiatric residency program director; Robert Ursano, chairman of the Uniformed Services University's psychiatry department; Charles Engel, the university's assistant chair of psychiatry, and David Benedek, an associate professor of psychiatry at the university.

Those officials either declined to comment or did not return telephone calls and emails seeking comment Wednesday.

Meanwhile, the Pentagon has found no evidence that Hasan formally sought release from the Army as a conscientious objector or for any other reason, two senior military officials told The Associated Press. Family members have said he wanted to get out of the Army and had sought legal advice, suggesting that Hasan's anxiety as a Muslim over his pending deployment overseas might have been a factor in the deadly rampage.

Hasan had complained privately to colleagues that he was harassed for his religion and that he wanted to get out of the Army. But there is no record of Hasan filing a complaint with his chain of command regarding any harassment he may have suffered for being Muslim or any record of him formally seeking release from the military, the officials told the AP.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the case is under investigation.

Another Army official, Lt. Col. George Wright, said Wednesday that Hasan likely would have had to commit to another year in the military when he was transferred to Fort Hood earlier this summer. It is common for an officer to incur a one-year service extension when they receive a transfer to another post.

[mollydtt]

Any federal or state agency has a hard time terminating an employee. Unless they actually threaten to kill you personally, or actually physically assault you, there isn't much you can do.
I say this, because I work in a state university that has had some rather unstable people working there, but there isn't anything you can do, except wait and watch. If they are fired, they can sue the pants off of everybody concerned. They can claim discrimination at the drop of a hat.
Pretty much the only thing that will make termination possible is a physical assault or a death threat (and you have to be able to prove those things).

[bubbadubba]

Proof Muslims are terrorists:
Timothy McVeigh
Son of Sam
Hillside Strangler
Charles Manson
IRA
Columbine High
No wait, they weren't Muslims, never mind.

[displeased]

Don't forget Cho

[bubbadubba]

<<<<Er, someone has fooled you because Muslims follow Muhammed and Muhammed taught violence. The Koran starts out talking about peace, but then is negated by Muhammed in subsequent chapters.>>>>

Er, you don't know what you are talking about.
But let's assume you are right. What about Jews who believe in an eye for eye and tooth for a tooth and believe it is alright for them to take land they claim has been promised to them?
That Bible is also 1/2 of the Christian Bible.
Well?
Besides I was talking about Jordan and you totally changed the subject because you could not dispute the facts in my post.
You are free to say Muslims are violent and evil but you are wrong.
Sorry.
Of course if you are an Iraqi Muslim and have seen 200,000 Iraqis killed and 300,000 wounded by the phoney US invasion I guess you would be inclined to say Christians are violent and evil.
My neighbor is a Muslim and he and his family are wonderful people and I hope they stay my neighbors for a long time.

[jjjc3]

If it is true that fellow doctors described him as a "psychotic," then we are dealing with a sicko who should have been removed from the Federal service based upon that medical information. And, I don't buy this "can't easily remove someone" from the Federal service stuff. If there was medical evidence available that he was psychotic or a nut case, he could have been removed. After all, if true, this would have been doctors discussing the mental health of a fellow doctor, not a bunch of hack layman speculating about someone else's mental condition. There are also existing violence in the workplace rules that could have been used top good effect. It's the failure to act that is staring me in the face, not terrorism. I truly hope that someone did not put career above workplace courage.

[ToolMangler1]

The Military brought this on themselves, They had ample warning and info about his state of mind. You don't have to know any of his past to see a troubled mind by his speech and actions over his past years in the service....
How many more "Va Tech, Fort Hood and counless other incidents like this do we have to endure before "Those that are our leaders" actually do begin to lead and start paying attention to the 'human condition' under their noses instead of 'Scanning the horizon for possible trouble'?????????

[riptide213]

Sanctioned research paper requiring communication with known terrorists sympathizers?

Pretext, excuse, or ruse. Lame anyway you look at it.

Who signed off on this critical gaff?

Any bona fide national security investigative effort requires face to face interviews by trained investigators who can pose fact finding hard questions to people who interact with any person of interest and extract any nuances to hunt out any shrouded threat indicators.

Obviously reliance on a rubber stamped records review threat assessment from a detached cozy office does not cut it. All the clues were not linked to build a lucid hunch.

I bet those concerned fellow students and coworkers who raised loyalty or other uneasiness factors before this tragedy but were censured by systematic political correctness would have added valuable perspectives of warning to any creditable security investigation.

Inexcusably reminiscent of certain past diligent field agent investigative work which detected flying lessons by certain persons of national interest yet implication was not grasped by or perhaps even jeered by HQ.

A US Secret clearance is a condition of initial appointment as and required for commissioned officers in our military.

Exceptions for certain commissioned officers are another accident waiting to happen.

Strict requirements for entrance security investigations are rigidly adhered to except for health professionals, chaplains, and attorneys who may be commissioned prior to completion of a security investigation.

This weak policy loophole in background security process is a potential slip under the RADAR vulnerability risk that needs to be fixed. Prevention better than cure.

With hindsight could robust adherence to current personnel security procedures for protection of sensitive national information focused in on this escalating, one person rebellion?

Did Commander, US Army Central Personnel Security Clearance Facility (CCF), as sole authority for granting, denying and revoking security clearances of military employees of the Department of the Army become aware of any derogatory information on this officer?

CCF notified of ongoing FBI or Defense Criminal Investigative Service investigations?

CCF notified of any concerns of fellow students or colleagues?

Were any proactive steps taken by CCF to suspend, deny, or revoke this officers security clearance eligibility until active investigations were complete?

Could commanders, supervisors, or security managers at all levels following established protocols help identify or focus scrutiny on low level threats or hazards in this case before concerns reached dynamic meltdown?

Thankfully Senators Joe Lieberman, a Connecticut independent and Susan Collins, Republican from Maine are willing to ask the tough and valid questions.

An in depth investigation to refine all risk factor reviews is urgently required. Why?

If our national security agencies cannot coordinate, detect, and prevent this type of developing radical threat from within our military with all control measures and criteria in place to become or remain a serving officer just how can we expect to preempt threats from less scrutinized sectors or individuals in society?

[AOCGUY]

riptide213 - A SECRET clearance only requires a background check. The type of investigation you described is reserved for higher level clearances, which MAJ Hasan, as a health care provider, would not normally have.

[wheatfield2]

More concerns being investigated: Please google Pakistan Hasan wired money. An article in Dallas News sheds new light.......please read the whole article. I posted queries about Hasan's meager assets, and wondered what he did with his ample salary. It was deleted. Now they are investigating this. Funny, the source wasn't from our "billion dollar Homeland/Intelligence". What are the taxpayers getting for their money???

[wheatfield2]

It is a sad day when so many Americans are forgetting 911 victims were the result of terrorism. The facts and evidence of his extremist/terrorist assocations are numerous, yet many try to excuse Hasan and label HIM as a victim, blaming his environment, abilitity to buy a gun, etc. I would like to know what the Ft Hood victims and their families think of this.

[AOCGUY]

Who tried to excuse Hasan?

[I_am_me1953]

Never said he was a victim.

He is responsible for the deaths of 13 and injury to 30 US soldiers.

Not necessarily a terrorist either. He may performed a hate crime or Hasan may have just been a wacko that his peers should have diagnosed and moved to have him removed from the military and hospitalized.

[mnbrant]

I have concerns about the vast number of innocent people we have killed and imprisoned in both Iraq and Afganistan since day 1. The latest article on the subject regarded a tribal leader who raised concerns to the US military regarding 4 innocents killed by the US military and soon thereafter found himself at GITMO. There he stayed for 6 years til he was finally released. He was suprised to find himself recently on a terrorist watch list of people who were suspected of being terrorists. After previewing the list he discovered that the names of the 74 people on it were mostly wrong or incomplete. It turns out that a rival warlord produced the list. It was bought by us and reported as real news. I believe the news agency said that 15% of people released from Gitmo returned to terrorism. The truth was nobody really knows or cared about facts. Afghani's and Iraqi's are not real people to the US they are just ***** to be shot. Then with all the misinformation thats been handed to us. they begin to send us new messages. The war is not going well in either country. We need more money, more troops. We need a war in Iran and maybe North Korea too. I am not saying this guy is right, obviously he is not. What I am saying is that with a little gun control we will be better off. I mean the guy bought his guns from the Guns Galore in Texas for gosh sakes. I know from living down in Louisiana for a couple years that its not to difficult to buy a submachine gun down there. We are lucky he did not get one of those. And lets try for a little consideration for those people in the Arab world. We don't want to get spanked worse than we are already.

Brant

[leeanna59]

The problem is guns? So, you think that he, as a major in the military couldn't have gotten his hands on weapons if he had wanted without going outside of Fort Hood to do so? Right.

[AOCGUY]

leeanna59 - It is not like the Army just leaves guns laying around on post. Weapons are stored in armories when not issued out. Military members living on post in barracks are not allowed to keep their personal weapons in their rooms but must store them in the armory as well.

[bubbadubba]

I did some research into this guy.
His parents are Jordanian.
Jordan is anti terrorist and very anti Islamic terrorist and is an ally against terrorists and works closely with the US and Europe.
Jordan's official position is that terrorists cannot be true Muslims since that defies the teachings of Islam.
We cannot blame his heritage for his actions as Jordan is not an enemy of the US or world.
He is also not anti-Christian since there are many Christians in Jordan.
Jordan is a good and peaceful country.
I want this guy executed but I wanted to point out that we should not blame his family or Arabs for his actions, he is a self made nut case, a terrorist, and a coward.

[CoastalExchange]

You're right bubba, Jordanians are very nice, reasonable people for the most part. This isn't about his heritage. As Chris Rock says, "Whatever happened to people being just 'crazy'?"

[wheatfield2]

""""""""""""I'm a Muslim and I known Al-Qaeda ideology very well. There is nothing called innocent contact with Al-Qaeda Muslim Scholar. Salafi-Wahabi Islam means Anti-Western ideology and extremism, which ultimately leads to terrorist attacks. This terrible mistake should never be repeated.Posted by:ahmedalbassam 10:25 AM"""""""""""""""'_______________This was posted on another discussion forum. I thanked him for posting this.

[wheatfield2]

This proves "They walk among us....", and are lurking/waiting quietly in every walk of life. A sleeper cell whose time had come. And the strip joints....google """911 attacker strip joint""" and you will see that worshipping at the same mosque is not the only thing he had in common with the 911 attackers. Prior to their martyrdom, they sought the strip joints in earnest.So, not only did he 1. preach death to infidels to his colleages, 2. he contacted Al Quaeda, 3.bought a dangerous gun months before the act, 4. used neighbors computer just before incident and used wifi, changing owner's passwords, 5 had visitor in full religious dress 6 frequented strip joints in recent week before massacre. Those intelligence operations should have known what he was up to when he started going to the strip joint. That''s exactly what the 911 attackers did just before their terrorist acts.Al Quaeda is too smart now to have any correspondence without their codes, so I'm sure that's why intelligence thought his correspondence was completely "innocent.".

[borg99]

This was not a foreign terrorist attack. This was an American citizen who simply went nuts.

He's no different from Timothy McVeigh. Both McVeigh and this guy had crazy ideas in their heads, and they acted out those ideas.

And how would the Army or anyone else know he was going to do this? LOTS of people talk crazy stuff, but very few act it out.

[2012EOD]

McVeigh was a muslim? Who know, how did you know that borg99.

[I_am_me1953]

He didn't say a thing about McVeigh being muslim.

[2012EOD]

He did say he is no diffent from Tim McVeigh, please define no different then.

[2012EOD]

Oh, McVeigh did not wire money to Pakastan before his killing too.

[moonbeam91]

The reason he never made an official harrasment report is because he WASN'T harrased! Had he filed a report he would have had to document it - and knew he couldn't. Like he there are many others who need to be kept under a watchful eye! I'd rather we be careful than sorry - ask the parents of those brave ones who were either killed or wounded! Please don't tell me I'm paranoid.

[wheatfield2]

""Major Nidal Malik Hasan, the gunman who killed 13 at America's Fort Hood military base, once gave a lecture to other doctors in which he said non-believers should be beheaded and have boiling oil poured down their throats. He also told colleagues at America's top military hospital that non-Muslims were infidels condemned to hell who should be set on fire.

The outburst came during an hour-long talk Hasan, an Army psychiatrist, gave on the Koran in front of dozens of other doctors at Walter Reed Army Medical Centre in Washington DC, where he worked for six years before arriving at Fort Hood in July.

Colleagues had expected a discussion on a medical issue but were instead given an extremist interpretation of the Koran, which Hasan appeared to believe.

Fellow doctors have recounted how they were repeatedly harangued by Hasan about religion and that he openly claimed to be a "Muslim first and American second." One Army doctor who knew him said a fear of appearing discriminatory against a Muslim soldier had stopped fellow officers from filing formal complaints. ""

This is from the Telegraph.co.uk, United Kingdom. I hear on the news that he will be tried in military court, which means that his crime is not considered terrorist act. They will go to great lengths to coddle this man, elicit sympathy and avoid calling it like it is.

[2012EOD]

I wonder why the Media would want to protect him?

[2012EOD]

I wonder why the Media would want to protect him?

How sad, we have to go to England to get news about US.

[countrycuz1]

Once again, we choose to ignore the obvious because cultural liberal ideology dominates common sense. I don't know to what extent we must sacrifice our security in the name of "diversity", but let's be reasonable. 'Political Correctness' has gone too far. This is why Eastwood's "Gran Torino" was such a hit in all demographics. Islam means 'To submit". As a growing religion in this country it also draws a greater share of the disaffected and mal-contents ( it's huge in the prison system). That's a fact. Many of its ideas and required practices run contrary to the ideals of this nation, much more so than any other religion or cause. Pratitioners of extreme religions or causes( such as Earth Firsters) need greater monitoring while serving in the military if they have shown any signs of endorsing violent terrorism.

[I_am_me1953]

From the above article, "Fort Hood, one of the country's largest military installations, was considered the best assignment for Hasan because other doctors could handle the workload if he continued to perform poorly and his superiors could document any continued behavior problems, the official said. "

_____________________

Well I guess they have some "behavior problems" they can document now.

[ConstantineXIII]

The Democratic Party and Obama(who have pushed and forced political correctness on us) bear some responsibility for this attack because it was political correctness which obstructed and prevented army officials from taking necessary action despite obvious warning signings. Under no circumstances should this type of individual ever be given access to guns or an army base yet to maintain some politically correct "diversity"(which is all so important according to General Casey and the Democratic Party and Obama), this guy not only was given access to guns and an army base but he was promoted and, as a psychiatrist, was advising other people in the army. Obama, especially, has promoted this politically correct mindset with his threats of criminal prosecution of government officials(discouraging government officials from taking action), appointing a homeland security chief who calls terrorism "man caused disasters", fawning over the Saudi King by bowing as if he were a vassal to him, doing everything in his power to praise Islam in Cairo but prostrate himself toward Mecca, refusing to even use the word "jihad", doing nothing to support Iranian dissidents, doing nothing to stop Iran from building nuclear weapons, and permitting the radical Saudis to continue to build radical mosques and radical Islamic institutions in the United States. If we are to rid ourselves of jihad attacks, there is but one option: Political correctness must go!!! And for political correctness to go, Americans must get rid of Obama and the Democratic Party majorities in Congress as soon as possible!!!

[I_am_me1953]

Your soap bubble is tired, you need to get another to stand on.

Consider that for most of Hasan's career he was under the tutelage of GWB, not BHO.

[chevyhotrod]

I_am,
I was waiting for some liberal to blame it on Bush, it was only inevitable.

New Flash...........Bush is no longer President, find someone else to point the finger at.

Bush fought to monitor terrorist, both foreign and domestic and liberals said no.

If you don't have anything intelligent to add to the conversation, maybe you should avoid posting?

Ignorance is our most expensive commodity.

[I_am_me1953]

RE: by chevyhotrod November 12, 2009 10:06 AM EST

I am not blaming this on GWB, But YOU ARE BLAMING IT ON BHO ... I AM pointing out that Hasan began his tirades back before 2008 (pre-BHO). I don't consider this whole episode to be at all political. I think Hasan was a crazy that went over the edge, aka "going postal". But it is people, aparently like you -birthers, POTUS is Muslim, POTUS is a black panther, etc...- that wish to make it a POTUSA political issue, when it is not.

I AM NOT A LIBERAL. I AM a critical thinking moderate who listens to both side of the argument and then decides.

You, on the other hand are using rote memory regurgitating whatever you hear on the conservative talk radio programs and don't/won't listen to the other side.

And do I feel any less "safe" under BHO than I did under GWB? H3ll NO! I also don't feel "protected" when/after I go through airport security and the TSA has scanned everyone going through their gates.

As you stated earlier, "Ignorance is our most expensive commodity."

Take time to think about what you said there, do a little self education and thinking after you listen to both sides.

[I_am_me1953]

RE: by ConstantineXIII November 12, 2009 8:14 AM EST and by chevyhotrod November 12, 2009 10:06 AM EST

BTW I do mostly agree with the comment made by ConstantineXIII, "Americans must get rid of Obama and the Democratic Party majorities in Congress as soon as possible!!!"

One or the other needs to go, not necessarily both. I am not in favor of giving either party complete control because then ther are no real checks and balances to keep either party's corrupt policies in check.

[chevyhotrod]

I_am,
Stop making assumptions about me. I am not a birther, I believe Obama was born in Hawaii as a Muslim (only because he had Muslim parents) and that is way he does not want to show his birth certificate.

I believe Hasan killed because of one reason, to kill infidels. It was all political, much like the radicals that killed on 9-11, we can agree to disagree, but I believe when all the info comes out, it will be obvious to all willing to see the truth.

I do not believe it is BHO fault, I believe he is appeasing the Muslim world, by talking down American values and history.

Who said anything about Black Panthers, don't put words into other people mouth.

I thought you were a liberal, because most liberals like to continue to blame Bush for everything. My mistake and I will not do that with you again, provided you stop blaming Bush for all are problems.

"do a little self education and thinking after you listen to both sides."

If you care to debate me on any issue I would be happy to oblige. I consider myself a moderate without any extreme views, with the exception of what our founding fathers believed that liberty and freedom will rein and Socialism/Communism/Marxism/Nazism will be defeated. ALL men (and woman) are created equal. I do not listen to others who believe otherwise.

[50BMS13]

ConstantineXIII
Best post I read in a while. Who can argue with it? Dead on. Accurate facts. Keep posting.

[ConstantineXIII]

The Democratic Party and Obama(who have pushed and forced political correctness on us) bear some responsibility for this attack because it was political correctness which obstructed and prevented army officials from taking necessary action despite obvious warning signings. Under no circumstances should this type of individual ever be given access to guns or an army base yet to maintain some politically correct "diversity"(which is all so important according to General Casey and the Democratic Party and Obama), this guy not only was given access to guns and an army base but he was promoted and, as a psychiatrist, was advising other people in the army. Obama, especially, has promoted this politically correct mindset with his threats of criminal prosecution of government officials(discouraging government officials from taking action), appointing a homeland security chief who calls terrorism "man caused disasters", fawning over the Saudi King by bowing as if he were a vassal to him, doing everything in his power to praise Islam in Cairo but prostrate himself toward Mecca, refusing to even use the word "jihad", doing nothing to support Iranian dissidents, doing nothing to stop Iran from building nuclear weapons, and permitting the radical Saudis to continue to build radical mosques and radical Islamic institutions in the United States. If we are to rid ourselves of jihad attacks, there is but one option: Political correctness must go!!! And for political correctness to go, Americans must get rid of Obama and the Democratic Party majorities in Congress as soon as possible!!!

[formrusmcsgt]

What I'd like to know is how this clown made Major and never had an overseas tour.....

[kenhamlett]

Ah so now they admit they can not tell the difference between psychological conditions, moral positions or intellectually guided judgments regarding Hasan's demeaner. Finally a little truth unless of course they are making it up after the fact. That is quite likely.

If we follow the claim they saw indications but failed in differentiating the causes then we have a situation where your average mailman, garbage collector or TV news personality is just as qualified as these doctors. Their claims of professional expertise is meaningless.

If we follow the line of thought that they are making it up after the fact to make it seem they knew but failed to act, then we have either liars or gross incompetence.

Based on observation of such "doctors" in the private sector I can attest that they can be liars, incompetent and have meaningless professional claims all at once. The only difference between the military doctors and the private sector is that in the private sector these fake doctors can add criminal intent and the ever present entrapment schemes to their list of liabilities.

In all there are only opinions, either misguided or fraudulent in the psychiatry field and excessive amounts of guesswork in regular medicine. Thus a regular doctor is on the fringes of science and a shrink is totally outside of science and simply engage in hucksterism, at best.

Get a clue folks, these people are the problem, not the solution. Just recall the major tragedies of the last few years. The shrinks are causing the problems.

[I_am_me1953]

Geeze Louise ... These guys are psychologists, the least scientific and most quack-filled members of the medical profession.


These are the guys that are MDs that want to have weekly hugs, talks and give you warm fuzzies, not cure you.