A Battle for Senate - And the GOP's Soul

In Florida, Opponents Charlie Crist and Marco Rubio Offer Two Very Different Visions for the Future of the Republican Party

(CBS)  This story was filed by CBSNews.com political reporter Brian Montopoli.

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Florida Senate hopeful Marco Rubio is sitting in a hotel lobby in midtown Manhattan, arguing that his Republican Party has a decision to make.

"It's what the party's going to be about," says Rubio, the 38-year-old former speaker of the Florida House of Representatives. "It's not a choice between two evil paths. It's a choice between one I believe is right and one I believe is wrong."

A choice, in other words, between Marco Rubio and Charlie Crist.

Rubio and Crist are competing against each other in a Republican primary to fill the seat previously held by Republican Mel Martinez, who resigned in August. (The current senator, George LeMieux - who was appointed by Crist - has said he's not going to run.)

When he announced in May that he was running for the seat, Crist was expected to have a relatively easy time winning the primary, and then the general election: A popular Republican governor with the backing of the GOP establishment, he'd staked out moderate positions on climate change and government spending that made him palatable to Florida's independents and Democrats.

Six months on, however, Crist looks vulnerable. His poll numbers are down, though he still has a sizable, if shrinking, lead over Rubio. What he does not have is the enthusiasm of the state's Republican activists, who have repeatedly indicated their preference for Rubio in straw polls.

Only registered Republicans can vote in Florida's GOP primary, which will take place in August. That's a problem for Crist, who has long been viewed with suspicion by the more conservative elements of the party - the folks who tend to show up in low-turnout, non-presidential year elections.

If Rubio can convince enough of those voters that he deserves their vote - and raise enough money to put a dent in Crist's six-to-one fundraising advantage - Rubio could effectively steal the nomination out from under Crist, and in the process help put the GOP on a path that some fear will lead to its marginalization.

The clean-cut and charismatic Rubio, the son of Cuban immigrants, is in many ways the perfect candidate for the fiscal conservatives who have taken over the Republican spotlight - and who seem intent on taking over the Republican Party. President Obama's spending policies, he argues, "will rob my children and their generation of their prosperity, and some of their freedoms."

Rubio sees America as a nation of people who "want government to get out of the way" - and casts himself as an uncompromising advocate for those who believe prosperity results not from government largess but rather free enterprise. He's not the only one: Anti-taxation heavyweight Grover Norquist called Rubio "the most pro-taxpayer legislative leader in the country," and he has the backing of the powerful limited-government group The Club For Growth.

Rubio has aggressively hammered Crist (left) for supporting the president's $787 billion stimulus package, offering up a photo on his Web site of the two at a February rally in support of the bill. (The two literally hugged at the event.) In an interview Monday, Rubio said he was "disturbed" by Crist's recent claim that he didn't actually endorse the legislation.

"I think it's part of a broader problem in American politics, and that is people who will say or do anything in order to win an election…including lie about their record," Rubio said.

Rubio says he largely supports the tea party protesters, many of whom have cast health care reform as a socialist takeover. (The feeling is mutual: FreedomWorks, the conservative lobbying group that has helped organize the protests, is planning to mobilize thousands of volunteers on Rubio's behalf.) Asked if he would welcome the support of former GOP vice presidential candidate and Alaska governor Sarah Palin, Rubio offers an unqualified yes, adding that "I can't think of anything her and I disagree with off the top of my head."

Palin hasn't offered an endorsement in the Florida Senate race, but she did weigh in on another race with some striking similarities - last week's House contest in upstate New York. In that race, a moderate Republican was forced out of the contest amid a challenge from conservative party candidate Doug Hoffman; Hoffman went on to lose the election to Democrat Bill Owens, even though the rural district had been reliably Republican for years.

Shortly before the vote, Rubio wrote this in a blog post: "For conservatives who still don’t believe we can be true to our principles and win elections, I hope NY-23 serves as a wake-up call." Wouldn't Hoffman's loss, then, be a wake-up call of a different kind - evidence of the potential fallout when conservative Republicans like Rubio take on moderates from their own party?

Not at all, Rubio said. He pinned the loss on the local Republican Party, which he said shouldn't have selected moderate Republican Dede Scozzafava in the first place.

"The blame lays on those who decided to anoint someone who was so outside the mainstream of Republican thought," he argued.

Some prominent Republicans, including former House speaker Newt Gingrich, saw the upstate House New York race as a cautionary tale about what happens when Republicans become too dogmatic, rejecting candidates who don't conform to a relatively narrow set of beliefs. Gingrich suggested that conservatives like Rubio and Palin are engaged in a "purge" of moderates that could ultimately result in Democrat Nancy Pelosi being "speaker-for-life."

Rubio rejects the notion that there is a purge going on of moderate Republicans, arguing that Gingrich has it exactly backward, at least when it comes to his campaign.

"People always couch it as 'is there a purge of moderates,'" he said. "I think the real question is, 'is there room for the conservatives in the party?' Let's not forget that the establishment has endorsed the moderate in this race, Charlie Crist. So if anything, the people fighting to be a part of the Republican Party are the conservatives in this race, not the moderates."

Crist's campaign, for its part, is trying to change the narrative by going after Rubio's self-image as a "true conservative." That mantle, suggests Crist communications director Andrea Saul, actually belongs to the governor.

Saul pointed to Rubio's "excessive spending following his election as speaker, support for tax increases, limitations on the 2nd amendment, lack of leadership on immigration reform, [and] political favors for key supporters" as evidence of his liberalism.

"On the contrary, Governor Crist has demonstrated a solid commitment to social and fiscal conservatism and is strongly pro-life and pro-family," she said. Saul went on to note that Crist was named Gun Rights Defender of the month in July by the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

But while Crist's camp may be stressing his conservative bona fides to fend off Rubio's challenge from the right, one of the governor's strongest arguments (and one he can't explicitly make) may be that he is better positioned to defeat likely Democratic nominee Kendrick Meek in a general election. Meek, a Democratic congressman from the Miami area, has been moving toward the center in advance of the general election - where he would be well-positioned to make a play for independents and moderate Republicans who could be turned off by Rubio if he is the Republican nominee.

The race, then, could hinge on whether GOP primary voters opt for Crist, the potentially safer if perhaps less emotionally-satisfying option, or the seemingly more dogmatic Rubio. Republicans have already begun taking sides: Crist has the backing of Sens. John McCain and Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, while Rubio has been endorsed by conservative Sens. Jim DeMint and James Inhofe, as well as former GOP presidential candidate Mike Huckabee.

The outcome of the race could demonstrate what the GOP will become as it tries to find its footing following two years in the political wilderness.

"I believe that I represent those who believe the Republican Party should be an alternative to the Democratic Party," Rubio said. "I believe that I give voice to those that believe that limited government is the source of our great prosperity as a people. And that's why I believe I'm going to win."

[Daves1221]

Money corrupts and as always?THE AMERICAN PEOPLE?come last to copious Campaign contribution, family vacations, sexual favors and undisclosed gifts. Any clean shaved, newly voted politician is rapidly corrupted once he reaches the halls of power. Honest perhaps at the beginning?but being ostracized by his own party members, soon turns the page? Demanding lobbyists have been in the corruption business since the first President. A good example is the commencing Comprehensive Immigration Reform. Wait and see? Don?t believe it? Go to JUDICIAL WATCH and NUMBERSUSA for the ugly details on corruption in high places?


WE MUST JAM THE SWITCHBOARDS IN WASHINGTON, PUSHING OUR OWN DEMANDS at 202-224-3121 that bars illegal aliens from the health care insurance ?exchange? and halt any AMNESTY. YOUR VOICE IS MAKING AN IMMENSE DIFFERENCE TO HOW THE POLITICIANS VOTE? WARN THEM OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF IGNORING PUBLIC OPINION. The?PEOPLE?is the absolute power of this country, but they must speak up?or face the most terrible predicament this country has had to face.

Other pieces of relevant information contributing to the dilemma of US legal population:

1,200 illegal workers fired in Minnesota. House Members Urge President to Enforce Immigration Laws to Lower Unemployment. Friends of Arizona Businesses with Illegal Workers Take E-Verify Law to Supreme Court Senate Census allows to Count Illegal Aliens for Congressional redistricting . CBO Says New Health Care Bill Would Cover 2.5 Million More Illegal Aliens. Sen. Reid Kills E-Verify Amendment to Unemployment extension Bill. Pro-Enforcement Candidates win in Virginia and New Jersey. 68% of Americans Oppose Sanctuary Cities and States.

Either parties are to blame for the massive financial predicament each state is in regarding the 20 to 30 million illegal aliens and families. They have swarmed into the border states and nearly bankrupted California?a SANCTUARY STATE?with Arizona close behind. State legislators scare of their own shadows have pushed for welfare entitlement for these impoverished people. The loser is the US taxpayer, who can hardly keep his family, car and mortgage above water.

You can learn about the corruption and incompetence of lawmakers at NUMBERSUSA. Court cases, political sleaze and immigration non-enforcement at JUDICIAL WATCH. How population growth will effect future generations at CAPSWEB. SAY NO BLANKET AMNESTY

[AK-47_Justice]

by us_1776:
The mindless arguments made by the Limbaugh/Beck/Hannity parrots is incredible. Nothing more than lies, scares, and gross distortions of fact. With as many of these irresponsible lies that have been debunked by credible news organizations around the country I cannot imagine why the FCC has not pulled the license from these propagandists and incitists.
***************************************






Actually ever since reagan's FCC repealed the Fairness Doctrine and reagan vetoed legislation to re-instate it, we've seen the advent of one-sided propaganda sources for GOP talk radio and cable nonsense, preaching to the choir with all their hatred and attacks against any Dem president and loving admiration for the bushies numerous mistakes.

Seems as if America is incapable of having an honest debate about anything today, and is something we truly need for such a divided country which is only getting worse fueled by propaganda outlets.

[proudmilvet]

What makes me laugh are the Neocon Politicians who Rant & Rave against the same Federal Govt. they wish to be a Representative of, using the same tired neocon catch phrases such as "The American people want the Govt. to get out of the way!" Once they win, they Lap up the Federal Gravy! Still preaching the Ronald Reagan B.S. but doing otherwise themselves. Hypocrits!!

[AK-47_Justice]

Yes, the neocons are truly hypocrites, spewing the same attacks against our government as reagan did 30 years ago, and I challenge any of these GOP supporters to show us exactly which one shrunk government and curtailed spending besides Bill Clinton, the most the conservative president since Eisenhower.

It was reagan that tripled our national debt while presiding over a 10.8% unemployment rate and the bushies that doubled our national debt while presiding over 2 recessions -- the current one being the worst economic times since the Great Depression of hoover's making. Seems as if GOP supply-side economics of tax cuts for the wealthiest has been proven an absolute failure more than once, yet they keep pushing the same failed policies and ideology, but can never deliver!

[themooniac]

geez these guys must be WAY stupid! Lindasy Graham is the one running for President, DUH.

[kansas1946]

A Battle for Senate - And the GOP's Soul
*************************************

Should be a short battle. The GOP has no soul.

[briannorwood]

On Sarah Palin, Rubio says "I can't think of anything her and I disagree with off the top of my head."

----

Apparently, this includes butchery of the English language! LOL!

[us_1776]

Rubio is going to win this primary. But then Meeks will have a good shot.

[pjk12354]

Pretty Boy & Barbie Doll.............except the dolls have more brains.

[skyk-2009]

Empire-George, you poor uneducated human, you wouldn't know a Marxist if one bit you on the but. You are just as simple minded creature who can't accept the reality of the last election. LOL

[us_1776]

Bingo!

[AK-47_Justice]

by chevyhotrod:
skyk,
You are the uneducated Marxist human
**********************************





Apparently, CBS is not so left-leaning these days, and the blog police allow spam advertising and personal attacks by far-right posters!

[Empire-George]

by abbarick November 10, 2009 1:00 PM EST
Who allowed Ford to fail? And under whose watch is it posting the huge profit? And how many jobs has Ford created as a result?
_________________

Under the watch of the "Free-Market Capitalism" that's who.....certainly NOT due to a takeover by Obama, but due to their own re-structuring.

Why are you looking for Ford to "create" jobs, when they are downsizing due to the recession ? Restructuring and Reducing workload to stay in business is their current priority, not "creating" jobs so Obama can throw around numbers for his own benefit.

[briannorwood]

Do any of you people understand that Ford was the one American automaker that DID NOT receive federal bailout money?

[Empire-George]

by us_1776 November 10, 2009 1:11 PM EST
No mortarman-29, the Democrats try to help their fellow man.
________________________

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them". - Thomas Jefferson

?I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.? - James Madison

That's the problem, Democrats think they need to "take care of everyone" while taking care of emptying THE PEOPLE's wallets for that purpose

[BigJim716]

That argument the Democrats help their fellow man is bogus. I have no doubt that most Democrats have great intentions of doing this. The problem is they believe it is best done through Government. The reality of it is that all government does is get in the way of prosperity and opportunities for all. If the Democrats put as much focus on charities as they did no seeing their politicians elected the truly deserving people would be better off.

[skyk-2009]

BigJim716, who in your poor uneducated mind is the Government. Didn't you get far enough in school to UNDERSTAND that WE the PEOPLE are the Government and WE the PEOPLE went to the POLLS last November in RECORD numbers with ONE specific directive... CHANGE the COURSE of this Country! They have had ALL they can take of the Republican LIE.. you know the one about "we will cut taxes to the rich and it will trickle down to those below"? Yeah that lie. It's doesn't work and maybe you need to understand that WHEN the people of this nation make a decision like that they usually MEAN it. Suck it up all you fringe wacko's... in a couple of generations you can again go out and sell your dog eat dog ideals... MAYBE!!

[tiktin]

Thank you for this comment and these quotes. It is quite remarkable that everything that is happening was foreseen by the founding fathers. It is founded in human nature after all, and they understood human nature. Let me add a few more quotes: "The greatest tyrannies are always perpetrated in the name of the noblest causes" (I think that was Thomas Paine, but no doubt some reader can correct me) "They gave up their liberty in hopes of gaining safety and wound up with neither" (Thucydides). "Eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty" (Andrew Jackson).

[AK-47_Justice]

by chevyhotrod:
What most of what government is doing today is completely unconstitutional. The government has no right, no matter who elected them to take property from one citizen and give it to another.
***************************************




Is that you glenn beck ranting once again against our government now that the GOP has lost control?

I didn't like my taxpayer dollars going to the war profiteers during Vietnam, and certainly don't like to be making more multi-millionaires like blackwater's prince and his cohorts, but it still happens. Seems to me that if you had any knowledge of constitutional law, you wouldn't be making such ridiculous and delusional statements.

[AK-47_Justice]

by Mortarman-29:
Let's imagine. Ford was allowed to fail, and they just posted a hug profit. Hmmmmmmmm.
**************************





Hmmmmmmmmmmm... is right, since it was "restructuring" by Ford -- closing factories and laying-off employees -- that lead to their latest "profit." Isn't that just peachy?? Get a clue!

I'm still waiting to hear what these "true" conservatives will cut out of the budget to balance it, since they can't seem to cut the bloated "defense" budget which is out of control, they like pork projects too much to cut spending, and when in power the GOP has only grown government ever-larger. The bush tax cuts luckily sunset next year, so that part of the reduced federal revenue will not affect America much longer hopefully, so if the economy continues to improve, we'll see an increase in federal revenue.

[BigJim716]

First and foremost they will need to cut welfare as Clinton did. Then they will need to cut Pork projects as Obama promised to do. The Federal Education department would be another good place as Reagan tried to do. Also..the Army Corps of Engineers is pretty much a useless entity...actually they do more harm than good. Whether it happens or not remains to be seen but adding entitlement program after entitlement program is certainly not the answer as Obama believes it is.

[AK-47_Justice]

by BigJim716:
First and foremost they will need to cut welfare as Clinton did.
********************************************




Welfare reform was indeed passed in the 90's, and remains on the books, so please tell us all how any of that has changed recently.

Seems as if the GOPer's are just fine with corporate welfare subsidies, but have a problem with helping out their fellow Americans when they need a hand. Shoveling billions of dollars to the "defense" budget black hole is also just fine, as waste, fraud and abuse is rampant -- especially during the bushie years of no-bid contracts.

With our educational system falling apart like our infrastructure, with such a high-rate of dropouts and testing showing that American students are far behind many other countries, you deliriously propose to cut federal funding of education. Of course reagan "tried" to do it, since he knew that an uneducated and illiterate population would be easier to sway, and by getting rid of the Fairness Doctrine, we just saw the rise of one-sided propaganda outlets like the murdoch empire to preach to the choir of non-thinking Americans.

Please explain your "entitlement program" belief, since the last one passed by Congress was back in 2003, by the GOP and the bushies, which has cost us hundreds of billions of dollars in BIG PHARMA subsidies in Medicare Part D, with no funding proposed -- just entitlement to a certain segment of Americans.

[AK-47_Justice]

"Some prominent Republicans, including former House speaker Newt Gingrich, saw the upstate House New York race as a cautionary tale about what happens when Republicans become too dogmatic, rejecting candidates who don't conform to a relatively narrow set of beliefs. Gingrich suggested that conservatives like Rubio and Palin are engaged in a "purge" of moderates that could ultimately result in Democrat Nancy Pelosi being "speaker-for-life."
*********************************************





Purging the GOP of all moderates will only make the OLD big tent much smaller and never win another election!

[BigJim716]

Gosh...didn't they win solidly liberal New Jersey by 5 percentage point and purple Virginia by 19 points. HMMM

And Crist and Scozzafava are big spenders with Scozzafava endorsing a Democrat.

I agree Republicans need to be open to differing views such as gay marriage, abortion and gun laws. But when it comes to out of control spending like Bush and Obama let them go with the Democrats.

Fiscal Responsibility is a winning argument.

[louiville35]

Isn't that what you want? So why the post or are you a closet Republican?

[briannorwood]

Yeah, and I remember all those born-again conservatives complaining soooo loudly when Bush was spending like a drunken sailor....NOT!

[AK-47_Justice]

Purging the GOP of all moderates will only make the OLD big tent much smaller and never win another election!
**************************************


by louiville35:
Isn't that what you want? So why the post or are you a closet Republican?
*****************************************




I fail to see why hoping for internal implosion of the GOP by purging the party of all moderates by moving far-right and making their tent much smaller, will help our two-party country -- especially aswe see the changing demographics in America!

BTW, bigjim716, the gubernatorial races were local politics that followed historical elections with both states having had GOP governors in the past, and was more a referendum on the eoconomy and jobs -- certainly not a party moving further right like NY's 23rd district and losing for the first time since the Civil War. I just don't see the appeal for the teabagger extremists in the FLA Senate race, and think that gov. crist would appeal to a much broader public in such a divided state like FLA. The "big spender" rant is quite hypocritical after 8 years of the bushies and endless wars and Medicare Part D, especially knowing that pork projects peaked in 2005/2006 under the GOP leadership.


Fiscal responsibility is a good trait, but something we haven't seen in D.C. since Bill Clinton, so cheap talk by the GOP is senseless!

[Empire-George]

Mortarman-29

Welcome back Mortarman.....your wisdom has been lacking on these boards.

may I ask you a question, last friday, loven and myself were discussing taxation, education....when I stated that the constitution "limited government" and they screamed that nothing in the document limited taxes or limited government....of course, I disagreed....my question is..what clause or amendment would you confirm or support the notion of limited government powers ? would that be the Preamble ? thanks for your comment.

[AK-47_Justice]

by Karen8069:
I'm a conservative. . .and opposed to abortion...
********************************






YOU are only a "social" conservative, and part of the religious right that hijacked the GOP 30 years ago, as reagan tripled our national debt through reckless fiscal irresponsibility!

Instead of trying to re-write history in your own terms, try to understand that Bill Clinton was the only fiscal conservative president since Ike, and handed the bushies a budget surplus.

Instead of trying to re-write history to make the GOP look good, please understand that our first oil embargo was in 1973, under tricky dickie, and our foreign oil importation has only gotten worse by conservative policies and ideology of following BIG OIL.

[Empire-George]

by hungry1968-17 November 10, 2009 11:42 AM EST
I've schooled and spanked Mortar so many times, he can't even respond to me anymore, so he quit trying.

It doesn't stop me from exposing his idiocy though.
_______________

I've never once seen that happen on CBS....again, dellusions of grandure by hungry, who couldn't debate his way out of a wet paper bag.....blaming bush for everything is hardly a spanking

[pjk12354]

Don't worry about finding the GOP's soul..........they sold it.

[Mortarman-29]

And dont worry about the Democrat's soul...they never had it.

[us_1776]

No mortarman-29, the Democrats try to help their fellow man. Quit spreading your mindless Limbaugh/Beck/Hannity nonsensical crap.

[pjk12354]

Since there is no soul in Washington........makes you kind of wonder where this country is heading......

[abbarick]

AT THE MOMENT EVEN THOUGH MORE NEW JOBS ARE BEING CREATED BY NEW PEOPLE, THE FEAR OF THE INSTABILITY AND THE RISKS IN THE SYSTEM AND THEIR PAST NEGATIVE EXPERIENCES IS STILL KEEPING THE OLD GUARDS OFF FROM GOING AHEAD IN CREATING ADDITIONAL JOBS THROUGH BUSINESS EXPANSION, INSTEAD THEY ARE STILL FOCUSED ON CUTTING JOBS AND MINIMIZING LOSSES. THE STIMULUS HAS HELPED MANY TO STAY ON TO WAIT AND SEE IF THINGS REMAIN STABLE UNDER THE NEW ADMINISTRATION. IT WILL TAKE AT LEAST A YEAR TO JUDGE THE ECONOMIC TREND UNDER A NEW ADMINISTRATION, AND MAYBE LONGER FOR THOSE MAKING MAJOR BUSINESS DECISIONS. IT IS QUITE STRANGE THAT THOSE WHO WERE QUICK TO CONDEMN THE NOBEL COMMITTEE AS BEING TOO QUICK TO AWARD THE PEACE PRIZE TO OBAMA FOR THE VISIBLE IMPACT OF HIS FOREIGN POLICY IDEALS, WHERE HE IS BETTER PLACED TO MAKE REAL IMPACT, ARE NOW RUSHING TO CONDEMN HIM PREMATURELY FOR THE ECONOMIC WOES OF THE NATION OVER THE WHICH, BEING A PRIVATE ENTERPRISE SYSTEM, THE ADMINISTRATION HAVE VERY LIMITED POWER TO INFLUENCE IN THE SHORT RUN. THE ECONOMIC SITUATION THAT DEVASTATED AND BROUGHT DOWN GLOBAL GIANTS WHO ARE OLDEST AND MOST EXPERIENCED IN THE FINANCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL SECTORS SURELY REQUIRES A VERY LONG LOOK TO DETERMINE ITS REAL TREND IN ORDER TO MAKE MAJOR INVESTMENT DECISIONS. HENCE IF IT IS GOING TO TAKE ONE YEAR OR MORE OF WAIT AND SEE FOR THE BUSINESSES TO MAKE DECISIONS THAT WILL LEAD TO JOB CREATION, THEN IT WOULD BE WRONG TO EXPECT THE POSITIVE EFFECTS OF THE NEW POLICY TO GO BEYOND DAMAGE AND CRISIS CONTROL, AND THAT IS WHAT THE STIMULUS PACKAGE HAS BEEN DOING IN STABILIZING THE ECONOMIC DOWNTURN. LET'S JUST IMAGINE WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF THE AUTO GIANTS AND MANY OTHER TROUBLED ENTERPRISES HAD BEEN ALLOWED TO FAIL. THEY WOULD HAVE BROUGHT DOWN WITH THEM TENS OF THOUSANDS OF OTHER BUSINESSES THAT DEPEND ON THEM DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY AND THE UNEMPLOYMENT SITUATION WOULD HAVE QUICKLY REACHED OVER 20% LONG AGO.

[Mortarman-29]

Let's imagine. Ford was allowed to fail, and they just posted a hug profit. Hmmmmmmmm.

[BigJim716]

Yet the graph Obama presented showed unemployment not exceeding 8% if the so-called stimulus boondoggle was passed. And the graph showed unemployment not exceeding 9.3% or so if the so-called stimulus boondoggle was not passed. HMMM.

A new motto for the Dems: "If at first you don't succeed....change the definintion of success".

I never understood why the Dems simply do not say there would be 50% unemployment without the so-called stimulus boondoggle and that you "saved" 40 million jobs. Obama's fans, the only ones who believe this garbage, would still believe them and they could be so much happier with the results.

[AK-47_Justice]

by Mortarman-29:
Let's imagine. Ford was allowed to fail, and they just posted a hug profit. Hmmmmmmmm.
**************************





Hmmmmmmmmmmm is right, since it was "restructuring" by Ford -- closing factories and laying-off employees -- that lead to their latest "profit." Isn't that just peachy?? Get a clue!

[abbarick]

When the US initiated the collapse of Soviet Union and the economies of Eastern Europe leading to sudden drastic unemployment and inflation combined US analysts were almost united in saying that the pain was good and necessary to correct the failed "communist" system. The pain of the people was completely ignored by the US and the west generally. The common argument the US analysts, particularly the Republicans, was that time was required for the crises to "bottom out" first before any hope of recovery. Now, more than 15 years since the adoption of the US led IMF economic prescriptions and doses, things are still "bottoming out" in those countries with all still saddled with double digit unemployment. Before the US/IMF imposed/inspired economic reforms those countries had virtually no unemployment problems and lower crime rates and no deficit problems. It is hypocritical and shameful for the US, and the Republicans and other conservative analysts in particular, to expect the economic woes that was the result of their decades long practised economic ideas should go away immediately without having to "bottom out" first just because the Democrats are now in charge. So, fellow Americans, let's brace up and be patient like those we have sold our economic prescriptions to in Eastern Europe and elsewhere. Things like, say the unemployment, must first "bottom out" before it gets really better indeed. The Obama administration and most of the Democrats being part of the failed American private capitalist system made mistake in their failure to understand and acknowledge that the current unemployment that started with the last administration had to "bottom out" first before any reversal in the trend is really felt.

[Mortarman-29]

But Obama is just digging, making the bottom deeper. Thus making things worse and making it so we take longer to hit bottom.

[us_1776]

mortarman-29, that is complete nonsense. Let's compare. The Bush/Cheney crime syndicate starts a needless Iraq war based on planted fake WMD documents that ends up costing TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS - the full cost of which will still not be known for another five years. And then we have the Bush T.A.R.P. bailout to the tune of $700 BILLION initial downpayment to bailout all the Republican financial industry "crooks".

So now we have the Democrats who are trying to prevent another major catastrophy from occurring in the country and that is the entire collapse of the healthcare system which ALL credible experts agree is going to happen if nothing is done to stop it. And with 50+ million Americans uninsured heading toward 70+ million within 3 years there are clear warning signs that this is going to happen. And so the Democrats take a great deal of time in carefully structuring a healthcare reform that will cover nearly all Americans just like every other "sane" western democracy but will also cost virtually a net zero or even reduce the deficit (operate at a net gain). And what do we see the critics do? The complain because the healthcare reform amounts to 829B in total size, and what they conveniently ignore is the cost-savings and revenue that the bill creates that offsets this.

There is no comparison between spending TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS on a needless war that is money completely lost - never to return, and the healthcare reform which nearly or completely pays for itself.

The mindless arguments made by the Limbaugh/Beck/Hannity parrots is incredible. Nothing more than lies, scares, and gross distortions of fact. With as many of these irresponsible lies that have been debunked by credible news organizations around the country I cannot imagine why the FCC has not pulled the license from these propagandists and incitists.

[us_1776]

QUOTE: President Obama's spending policies, he argues, "will rob my children and their generation of their prosperity, and some of their freedoms."

What a complete joke. The Republican spending sprees over the past three Republican administrations have ALREADY robbed our children of prosperity. 9 TRILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF NEEDLESS SPENDING TO BE EXACT. Completely needless wars on behalf of "corporate" war machine companies. Oil industry; Halliburton, Carlysle, others. The Republicans and their "corporate" cronies just backed up to the public treasury and emptied it.

I will never vote for another Republican. The whole miserable stinking corrupt Republican party needs to die.

[Mortarman-29]

How about the miserable corrupt Democrat Party?

[us_1776]

The Democratic Party is trying to rebuild this country from all the WRECKAGE that was left behind by the failures of corrupt Republican leadership.

[Mortarman-29]

The Democrat Party is trying to destroy this country on the heels of the wreckage of the Republican Party. That is more accurate.

[hungry1968-17]

by BigJim716 November 10, 2009 11:35 AM EST

It is silly for you to rightfully critisize the Republican spending without critisizing Obama.







So I should criticize Obama for what he MIGHT spend?

??????

[BigJim716]

That too....but you are aware his 1 trillion dollar per year deficit budget was passed earlier this year. And am sure you are aware Obama has run up about a $1.5 trillion dollar deficit nearly 10 months into his term.

[AK-47_Justice]

by BigJim716:
That too....but you are aware his 1 trillion dollar per year deficit budget was passed earlier this year.
***********************************





WRONG! The 2008-2009 budget was done by bush and congress last year, and ran from Oct. 1st, 2008 to Sept. 30th, 2009, and was already at a negative $1.2 Trillion on Jan. 20th, 2009, when Obama became president.

It was forecast to be much higher at a budget deficit of $1.8 Trillion, but was actually downsized to an actual budget deficit of $1.4 Trillion for last year -- not good, but only $200 Billion higher than handed President Obama by the bushies.

We're already on a new budget year now, that just started Oct. 1st, 2009, and everything will depend upon the economy and revenue, despite the bush tax cuts for the wealthy still in place, which has considerably cut federal revenue for the past 8 years.

[hungry1968-17]

by Mortarman-29 November 10, 2009 10:25 AM EST
By the way Sky, the president doesnt get us out of debt. That would be the Congress. The president only signs the budget. He doesnt make it.







So clueless.....

Sad really, and there's no reason for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_budget

"Each year, the President of the United States submits his budget request to Congress for the following fiscal year, as required by the Budget and Accounting Act of 1921. Current law (31 U.S.C. § 1105(a)) requires the president to submit a budget no earlier than the first Monday in January, and no later than the first Monday in February."




Try to catch up.