Exclusive: Rape in America: Justice Denied

A Five-Month CBS News Investigation Finds That a Staggering Number of Rape Kits Aren't Tested

(CBS)  This story was written by CBS News Chief Investigative Correspondent Armen Keteyian and Investigative Producer Laura Strickler.

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CBS NewsNearly 90,000 women reported they were raped in the United States last year. It's estimated another 75,000 rapes went unreported. But while rape convictions are up - a five month CBS News investigation raises questions about just how many rapists are actually being brought to justice.

Valerie Neumann says she didn't expect her 21st birthday to end in rape.

"He stuck his hands down the sweatpants and was touching me up, like my shirt as well, so I kept telling him, 'no,'" she told CBS News Chief Investigative Correspondent Armen Keteyian.

It started at a bowling alley in Erlanger, Kentucky. A man she just met, a friend of a friend, bought her drink after drink. Later that night, she threw up, and passed out. Then, Valerie says, it happened.

"When I woke up the next morning, my panties and the sweatpants were down around my ankles and my bra was undone," she said.

Get Help
Get Help from Rape Abuse Incest National Network
National Domestic Violence Hotline
Safe Horizon

Valerie said she realized she was raped. Reporting it the next day - a classic charge of acquaintance rape. Nearly three years later still no arrest in the case.

"I feel like, I almost fee like they're calling me a liar. That they don't believe me," Valerie said.

Rape in this country is surprisingly easy to get away with. The arrest rate last year was just 25 percent - a fraction of the rate for murder - 79 percent, and aggravated assault - 51 percent.

"When we have talked to victims, they very much so doubt that it was worth it for them to go to the police," said Sarah Tofte, US Program Researcher for Human Rights Watch. "They're incredibly disillusioned with the criminal justice system, and that sends a terrible message."

Facts About Rape
Fact Sheet from RAINN (Rape Abuse Incest National Network)
Date Rape Myths and Facts
National Coalition Against Domestic Violence

The suspect's attorney told police his client never had sex with Valerie. Yet an exam revealed "evidence of forced sexual penetration." Semen found on her underwear. Nurses took a rape kit- a collection of swabs and clothing that provide DNA evidence. The suspect provided a sample. But the DNA was never tested.

"Testing the kit is one way to affirm a victim's story," Tofte said, "and discredit the suspect's story."

A five month CBS News Investigation has found a staggering number of rape kits -- that could contain incriminating DNA evidence -- have never been sent to crime labs for testing.

At least 20,000 untested kits: 5,600 in Detroit. 3,800 in Houston. 5,100 in San Antonio, 1,100 in Albuquerque.

Rape Kit Data, by the Numbers

Many untested for years. And that's not all. At least twelve major American cities: Anchorage, Baltimore, Birmingham, Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Oakland, Phoenix, San Diego said they have no idea how many of rape kits in storage are untested.

Police departments told us rape kits don't get tested due to cost - up to $1,500 a kit -- a decision not to prosecute, and victims who recant or are unwilling to move forward with a case.

Psychologist David Lisak from the University of Massachusetts has spent twenty years studying the minds of rapists.

"Somehow all we can do is take the statement from the victim. Take the statement from the alleged perpetrator and then throw up our hands because they are saying conflicting things," he said. "That's not how we investigate other crimes."

Valerie was told her rape kit wasn't tested because they didn't have the money. But when we caught up with Kenton County prosecutor, Rob Sanders, he told us something else.

Keteyian asked, "Why wasn't the rape kit tested in the Valerie Neumann case?"

"The results of the DNA test would not have made the case one way or another," Sanders said.

Sanders said his office made a "judgment call" the case was unwinnable in court -- claiming there were issues with Valerie's memory and the alcohol involved. A practice, says Lisak that often plays right into the hands of rapists.

More about Non-Stranger Rapes from Psychologist David Lisak

"Predators look for vulnerable people and they prey on vulnerable people," Lisak said. And if, as a criminal justice system, we're going to essentially turn from any victim who was drinking or any victim who was in some way vulnerable - we're essentially giving a free pass to sexual predators."

Worried they were doing just that, CBS News has learned the Oakland California Police Department is now plowing through 489 untested rape kits from stranger rapes dating back six years, looking for evidence in what they believe to be "solvable cases."

The Los Angeles Police Department is testing a backlog of nearly 3,000 rape kits. LAPD's new Chief Charles Beck says efforts to reduce the backlog have "resulted in 405 hits" in the FBI DNA database.

In New York City, prosecutors are even more aggressive - testing every rape kit, even in cases of acquaintance rape - over 1,300 last year alone.

"You never know what you're going to find," said Mecki Prinz of the NY Medical Examiners Office.

The results are stunning. Today New York City's arrest rate for rape is 70 percent - triple the national average.

Prinz says testing kits in acquaintance cases can tie suspects to other attacks, "We have lots of situations where a domestic situation or an acquaintance situation is actually an indication of the male involved responsible for other rapes," she said.

"I feel like they didn't do their job to protect me and to protect everyone else," Valerie said. "I don't think it's something I'll ever forget. I don't think it's something you can forget."

[honestly_disagreeable]

"He stuck his hands down the sweatpants and was touching me up, like my shirt as well, so I kept telling him, 'no,'"

And yet you continued to be around him and kept drinking...

What he did was wrong and he should be in jail, but *you* made yourself a victim there. *You* got yourself raped.

I have *no* sympathy for rapists, but I also have *no* sympathy for stupidity.

Hopefully you've at least learned that when a guy continues to ignore your rejections, he'll probably rape you given half a chance (say, for example, being alone with him and drinking until you pass out).

Sometimes you really can't prevent bad things from happening to you. This was *not* one of those times.

[vmneumann]

1. It is believed he slipped someting in a drink HE bought for me.
2. HE came in the bathroom once before I had passed out...and i told him NO repeatedly. I thought he left. I didn't continue to be around him...HE came back later after I had passed out.
Maybe you should get your facts straight before you jump to conclusions. The CBS Story didn't soley focus on my story (didn't cover all the details) its intent was to raise awareness to a bigger issue (Rape Kits not being Tested)effecting this nation.

[alison9899]

SHE did not ASK for this to happen to her. She did not want this to happen to her - she SAID NO - no matter if alcohol was involved or not he had no right to take advantage of her or the situation - he should be man enough to WALK AWAY and realize what he is prying on. You are the reason our JUSTICE SYSTEM is F****D up for acquaintance rapes in this country because Jurors like you can't comprehend that NO MEANS NO - No matter the circumstances!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alison9899]

SHE did not ASK for this to happen to her. She did not want this to happen to her - she SAID NO - no matter if alcohol was involved or not he had no right to take advantage of her or the situation - he should be man enough to WALK AWAY and realize what he is prying on. You are the reason our JUSTICE SYSTEM is F****D up for acquaintance rapes in this country because Jurors like you can't comprehend that NO MEANS NO -No matter the circumstances - He had the responsiblity to walk away knowing she was not in the right state of mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[abyss2hope]

honestly_disagreeable, I'm bothered by the way you equate rapists with women you view as showing stupidity. The first is a personal crime, the second is not. The person who had the legal responsibility for preventing rape was the rapist. This woman did not make herself a victim.

She did not get herself raped. By making this claim you are undermining your statement that what her rapist did was wrong and that he should be in jail. This attitude is why so many rapists are not prosecuted and why so many who are prosecuted are not convicted.

It is also why so many rapists feel justified in committing rape against non-strangers. You are much harsher on this woman than you are on her rapist.

[ChristinaM33]

I can only quote: It?s a rude...awakening when a woman gets raped, and follows the rules she has been taught her whole life ? doesn?t refuse to talk, doesn?t refuse to flirt, doesn?t walk away ignoring him, doesn?t hit, doesn?t scream, doesn?t fight, doesn?t raise her voice, doesn?t deny she liked kissing ? and finds out after that she is now to blame for the rape. She followed the rules. The rules that were supposed to keep the rape from happening. The rules that would keep her from being fair game for verbal and physical abuse. Breaking the rules is supposed to result in punishment, not following them. For every time she lowered her voice, let go of a boundary, didn?t move away, let her needs be conveniently misinterpreted, and was given positive reinforcement and a place in society, she is now being told that all that was wrong, this one time, and she should have known that, duh.

For anybody who has ever watched the gendered social interactions of women ? watched a woman get browbeaten into accepting attention she doesn?t want, watched a woman get interrupted while speaking, watched a woman deny she is upset at being insulted in public, watched a woman get grabbed because of what she was wearing, watched a woman stop arguing ? and said and done nothing, you never have the right to ever ask, ?Why didn?t she fight back??

She didn?t fight back because you told her not to. Ever. Ever. You told her that was okay, and necessary, and right.

You didn?t give her a caveat. You didn?t say, ?Unless?? You said, ?Good for you, shutting up and backing down 99% of the time. Too bad that 1% of the time makes you a f*cking wh*re who deserved it.?
http://fugitivus.wordpress.com/2009/06/26/another-post-about-rape-3/

[ChristinaM33]

VMNeumann, last I checked, drinking is neither a crime for those over 21 nor at all uncommon a pass time for men or women. The penalty for public intoxication is a fine and perhaps some time in the drunk tank, not rape. You know what is a crime? Rape.

[Mattie567]

It is not smart for men or women to get extremely intoxicated as we all engage in behaviour we may not normally. However, most people do this and many have had that random hookup with a man or woman you met that you vehemently regret or sometimes don't remember any part of, just that you were at the bar together. In college I can remember a couple times I blacked out and had people tell me about what I did but I can't remember several hours. Having sex with a passed out person is rape or if someone says no but is so drunk they can't do anything that is also rape. But if someone has sex with some one while they are drunk and don't remeber because they blacked out but at the time was wanting it, or maybe they were the one persuing it but regret or don't remember the next day so they assume they were raped, that is equally bad. We can't tip the scale too far one way or the other because convicting an inncent person is as bad or worse then letting a guilty one go.

[ChristinaM33]

Having sex with someone who is too drunk to consent is rape. Even if they won't remember it tomorrow. Even if they were the aggressor. Even if they were wearing a short skirt. Even if they were drinking "Sex on the Beach". Even if. See, the issue is "consent". A drunk person cannot consent. Honestly. Rape apologia has got to end.

[Mattie567]

It is not smart for men or women to get extremely intoxicated as we all engage in behaviour we may not normally. However, most people do this and many have had that random hookup with a man or woman you met that you vehemently regret or sometimes don't remember any part of, just that you were at the bar together. In college I can remember a couple times I blacked out and had people tell me about what I did but I can't remember several hours. Having sex with a passed out person is rape or if someone says no but is so drunk they can't do anything that is also rape. But if someone has sex with some one while they are drunk and don't remeber because they blacked out but at the time was wanting it, or maybe they were the one persuing it but regret or don't remember the next day so they assume they were raped, that is equally bad. We can't tip the scale too far one way or the other because convicting an inncent person is as bad or worse then letting a guilty one go.

[justamoment1]

Rape is a crime and should be prosecuted regardless of the cost of processing an evidence kit. Rapes that go unpunished only lead to more rapes committed by the perpetrator. The young woman in this case was obviously very foolish and put herself in harms way by allowing herself to become intoxicated beyond consciousness. That doesn't mean that the rape was her fault, it just means she made herself a potential victim. As women we have to be responsible for ourselves and our safety; Just as this young woman acted carelessly, such is the case with so many others, and it would be interesting to know just what percentage of rapes that have occurred could have possibly been avoided. Two lessons are to be learned from this article ... first and foremost, don't set yourself up to be a victim, and any county or city that refuses to test evidence due to cost should be seriously evaluated and budgets should be re-evaluated and priorities set. Public safety is a priority and so is justice ... in any community.

[wiredo]

it's an unfortunate spiral: prosecutors have to judge what cases they can win on a limited budget: they look at rape prosecution history and find a low conviction rate, so they throw resources against categories of crime with higher conviction rates, make rape victims work hard to justify bringing a case when their natural tendency is to just want to get past it, leading to decreased expertise in bringing rape cases, leading to lower conviction rates.

[abyss2hope]

justamoment1, I disagree that this woman was obviously very foolish and put herself in harms way by allowing herself to become intoxicated. Many women become intoxicated to beyond consciousness and are not raped. Many women do everything they are told to do in order to avoid rape yet are still raped. The cause of rape is not intoxication or any other vulnerability, but the presence of someone willing to rape.

If as women we have to be responsible for our own safety then women in nursing homes are also responsible for ensuring they aren't raped.

The first lesson should be, first and foremost, don't be a rapist under any circumstance. We should make it clear that if someone rapes they will not be excused no matter what people think about their chosen victim. If we as a society fail to send this message to rapists and those tempted to rape then we as a society are more responsible for rape than any victim ever could be.

[Larry33333333333]

Woman CAN and DO change their mind. Sometimes a woman says "yes" but later decides she meant "no." Sometimes a woman says "no" but later says "yes." Men are not mind-readers. You cannot always tell when someone is impaired. A man should NOT be held criminally responsible if the woman did not communicate clearly.

[Swingstater]

Look, no means no. If you aren't sure what she means, then it means "no". If she can't reply because she's had too much to drink, etc or if you "can't tell when someone is impaired" then it means "no". There you go--you no longer have to be a "mind reader". Not having a law that these kits have to be tested is just another way in which women are second class citizens and will remain so until we make up 50% of our government.

[wiredo]

I find it difficult to understand why a woman who says yes and decides later that she really shouldn't have said yes would then go through the effort of reporting that she was raped, which, I understand, requires a LOT of effort on her part.

I would guess that women who bring rape charges (and those who were raped, but don't bring charges) overwhelmingly said no and meant no, or were in no condition to say anything or to effectively resist, and were taken advantage of while in that condition.

I agree: no means no. Given all that, though, it is unfortunate that often the situation is such that both persons involved are drunk, and judgement on both sides is lacking. It's one reason why, if a man does not want to be accused of rape, he should avoid sex while drinking, at least with new potential partners.

[abyss2hope]

Larry33333333333, Your statement about women changing their minds can easily describe situations where a man never had legal consent. Too many men coerce a yes out of someone who said no or who signalled their lack of consent in other ways and then try to pass that off as legal consent when it is no such thing.

Many rapes involve victims too intoxicated to clearly communicate their lack of consent. Your statement of when a man should NOT be held criminally responsible falsely negates all these rapes.

Mind reading is not required. Any situation where this seems to be required should be a signal to walk away.

[Jetfire911]

Why is it only irresponsible risky behavior for women? Consent can NEVER be given when intoxicated, it's that simple. Guys should not engage in risky behavior of taking advantage of impaired women. It is our responsibility to protect ourselves and not abuse women. Getting some is not more important than being respectful human beings. Woman never "revoke" consent after the fact, it was just NEVER given in the first place, no matter what they may have said. Wait until they are sober, be a decent human being.

[Whys333]

Some women like to party with alcohol then do things they later regret. Choosing to drink should not give a woman the power to rescind consent _after the fact_. Again, women need to take some responsibility for their choices. Stay sober, double date, don't have sex outside of a committed relationship or put yourself in questionable circumstances. Then the courts won't have to play guessing games and the cops won't feel like their wasting their time processing rape kits that will never go to trial.

[Swingstater]

"Regret" over some loser guy one picked up because one showed some poor judgement at a party is much much different from being forced. I know of no woman who would confuse the two.

[whiffleball]

MEN needto take responsibility for their choices. Forget no means no, make your mantra "yes means yes". If you don't have a clear and enthusiastic yes, then it means NO. Not hard. Get it?

Women don't "put themselves in questionable circumstances". Rapists search out people to rape. Big difference.

how on earth does being celibate protect one from rape?

[abyss2hope]

Whys333, you've just used a popular myth (rape of those who have been drinking as nothing more than regret) to negate the responsibility of all those who rape those who are not sober which is dangerously close to declaring the rape of those who have been drinking to be legal.

Since you assume many women who have sex after drinking are legally consenting and will try to rescind that consent after the fact, why don't you tell men to take some responsbilities for their choices in the face of this belief?

Why don't you tell men to never have sex with women who've been drinking and to never have sex outside of committed relationships? Then "the courts won't have to play guessing games"?

[Larry33333333333]

This article demonstrates the incredible need to DECRIMINALIZE adult PROSTITUTION. There is a direct correlation between the average cost of a prostitutes services and rape. In other words, when prostitutes are more expensive the number of women raped increases. The criminalization of prostitution, as we now have in every state except Nevada, obviously does nothing to eliminate prostitution but it does drive up the costs of a prostitutes services. Thus, women who work in the sex-trade are harmed by being made criminals and receiving abuse at the hands of the state. And women in general are harmed because there is significantly more instances of the crime of rape than there would be is prostitution were decriminalized. Let's finally get our heads out of our ***** and do what is best for the public's health and what is best for all women (and men) - DECRIMINALIZE PROSTITUTION.

[Swingstater]

Prostitution has nothing to do with rape.

[Sephirajo]

Ummm, what? What does this have to do with rape?

[abyss2hope]

I'm sorry but this is nonsense. Rape is not about a lack of access to sex.

Men who want to use sex to hurt women will at most redirect their violence to more acceptable targets. Since women in prostitution already face a high risk of being murdered directing rapists toward them seems inhumane. That doesn't sound like what is best for all women.

[KRMershon]

OK, so If he didn't rape her, why say he didn't sleep with her?

[erasmus111]

by bambiduff November 10, 2009 4:38 PM EST
Review the comment he said he rapes every time he goes to a bar.


by Skirt-Lifter November 10, 2009 1:55 PM EST
By your definition I have raped many, many women over the years, and they liked it ... well ... most of 'em anyway ... can't please 'em all.


I think, Bambi, that YOU should review the comment. If that is what you got from this statement, you need to go back to school.

[erasmus111]

by bambiduff November 10, 2009 3:27 PM EST
And for the rum dums that are saying that they have raped like skirt lifter, your an idoit, what kind of name is that...


I don't think I recall skirt lifter saying he raped anyone.

You don't like the name skirt lifter? I think it's kinda cute. Chill out.

[erasmus111]

And what kind of name is BAMBIDUFF?

[bambiduff]

Review the comment he said he rapes every time he goes to a bar.

[bambiduff]

I just can't beleive that all of these comments are still making rapist out to be hero's and the victiams out to be liars what has our socitey become where this is our view points. I am in awe by this.

[culturechang]

This whole article (and the comments too) are really not about protecting or enpowering women. It is about hatred of men.

[bambiduff]

I don't hate men, I hate the man that did this to me. I think that you are just simple and don't understand to true meaning or how it feels to be raped.

[angie_iowa08]

i thought it was about prosecuting rapists which doesn't happen as much as it should. That's the point.

[culturechang]

Sex crimes are at the pinnacle of sensationalized crimes nowadays. Rape allegations are all investigated to the best of police ability. Prison sentences, in most states, exceed that for murder.

I hear of old rapes cases still being solved all the time with DNA. Some cases decades old.

We have rape shield laws that essentially preclude the truth from being admitted into court.

This is just irresonsbile shock appeal journalism to stir up outrage over a problem that is being handled as best it can be handled.

[Swingstater]

"Rape allegations are all investigated to the best of police ability. Prison sentences, in most states, exceed that for murder." That's ridiculous.

[abyss2hope]

Culturechang, your claim that rape allegations are all investigated to the best of police ability is false. Too many rape allegations are not investigated at all. Rape shield laws aren't about blocking the truth but about blocking prejudice from trumping the evidence in a rape case.

[whitneyfaye05]

i have a family member who was raped back in august by a minor... she went straight to the hopital and did a rape kit that proved it and guess what... No charges have been filed against him yet she call the police and detctive every day... the sad thing is the kid that did this to her was like her step-son ( her boyfriends son) in her own home!! if anybody know anything more she can do to put the sicko away before it happens to somebody else please help me!! the woman im talking about is my mom and she suffers everyday i dont know what to do

[culturechang]

Tell us what the reasons why the prosecutor has not charged. There must be a reason. No grandstanding prosecutor is going to miss a rape case...or excuse me sexual assult....but its not about sex remember.

[whitneyfaye05]

we called again today and i guess another person has come forth saying the same boy has sexually assulted her too and they want to do both at the same time... my mom lives in fear though worried everytime she is in the house alone he will come in its not fair... i did just find out they put my mom on a lie detector test and she passed it i just dont see why they have so much proof with her case they need to send his nasty butt to jail

[whitneyfaye05]

culturechang you seem to know alot about this stuff are you in law inforcement??

[abyss2hope]

Whitneyfaye05, my heart goes out to you. If you are in the US and haven't already connected to a victim's advocate, please do so. RAINN.org is a good starting place to get connected.

[culturechang]

I thought they changed the official name of rape to "sexual assault", but its not about sex according to the experts.

Despite the head-in-the-sand terminology, I dont buy these statistics at all. Far too high to be believable.

Take the human trafficing stats. In 2000, they told Congress that 50,000 poeple were trafficked into the US annually. In 2008, the State Dept came out and said they had found only 1100 victims in 8 years....most of them were prostitutes NOT forced into the business. Those numbers were less than 1% accurate by the 400,000 they shoudl have found in 8 years.

This is just another sensationalistic article for shock appeal. We cannot get good policy or solutions to problems by propogating lies.

[posta00]

Sexual assault is the general term used to describe all sex crimes. Rape is a specific form of sexual assault, when there is penetration of some type. There is also Sexual imposition which covers inappropriate contact.

For more information here is Ohio law which describes the different types of Sexual Assaults: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907

[Swingstater]

Here the stats from the U.S. Dept of Justice website. (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm#sex)

"Sex offenders

* On a given day in 1994 there were approximately 234,000 offenders convicted of rape or sexual assault under the care, custody, or control of corrections agencies; nearly 60% of these sex offenders are under conditional supervision in the community.

* The median age of the victims of imprisoned sexual assaulters was less than 13 years old; the median age of rape victims was about 22 years."

You got that right--the median age of sexual assault victims was less than 13.

And there are thousands upon thousands of human beings that are trafficked (esp. in places like Thailand, Africa and Eastern Europe) and still sold into slavery around the world every day--not just the US.

The only thing that is shocking is why people like you are defending sex offenders.

[abyss2hope]

culturechang, the FBI statistics on rape are if anything an underestimate of the number of actual rapes in the US each year. The National Crime Victimization Survey for 2008 estimated the number of rapes/sexual assaults against victims 12 y/o and older to be over 200,000. Surveys which asked questions based on actions (closer match to actual criminal statutes) rather than labels return much higher estimates.

Using the number of arrests to try to discredit the estimated rate of crimes such as human trafficking is sloppy methodology and therefore completely meaningless.

The terminology used for rape in criminal statutes varies by state.

[abstandifer]

What can be done when a kit is not processed? What are the next steps to vindicate a victim?

[lanie3]

In My State of Kansas and many other states, the term " rape " is used very loosly when it comes to law enforcement. I unfortunately have seen many, many, many male officers treat victims as " they had it coming " or " she wanted it then and now she's changed her mind". I was a female cop for 9 years and in that nine years tried getting my chief, detectives and other officers to take rape as a serious crime. I was told by my chief that " it doesn't happen as often as the statistics say, especially in our town ". after years of fighting with them, it became clear that until the law enforcement community is no longer dominated by men, the rape crisis in this country will not change. Women, if you want to fight it, get on the right side of it and start helping victims instead of being one. become a police officer and start making a difference in womens lives.

Men...You need to keep in mind that a woman with any alcohol in her system cannot give informed consent and is considered to be rendered incapable of giving consent. In the state of Kansas, it's rape if she was drunk. Better hope no one else saw her drinking because that witness alone, along with a rape kit should send you to prison. Unfortunately you can't find anyone brave enough to prosecute it. I told all three of my sons as they grew up, NEVER EVER have sex with a woman when she is intoxicated or drinking at all. It is against the law! maybe more states need to be enacting this. It would clear up alot of argument on the supects side ike " she just doesn't remember " Our law reads like this:

C) when the victim is incapable of giving consent because of mental deficiency or disease, or when the victim is incapable of giving consent because of the effect of any alcoholic liquor, narcotic, drug or other substance, which condition was known by the offender or was reasonably apparent to the offender;


"when the victim is incapable of giving consent because of mental deficiency or disease, or when the victim is incapable of giving consent because of the effect of any alcoholic liquor, narcotic, drug or other substance, which condition was known by the offender or was reasonably apparent to the offender"

In other words, if she's drinking, she can't give informed consent. So if a guys keeps in mind that ANY SEX with a female who has been drinking can cause you to be charged with rape.

[Skirt-Lifter]

""Men...You need to keep in mind that a woman with any alcohol in her system cannot give informed consent and is considered to be rendered incapable of giving consent.""

<Let me get this right ... a bar is a REALLY bad place to go if your are looking to get laid?>

""Better hope no one else saw her drinking because that witness alone, along with a rape kit should send you to prison.""

<So if I go to a bar, pick up a woman who had two drinks, and we hit it off and have consensual sexx later that night, I can go to prison?>

""Unfortunately you can't find anyone brave enough to prosecute it. I told all three of my sons as they grew up, NEVER EVER have sex with a woman when she is intoxicated or drinking at all. It is against the law! ""

<You think this is a good idea? Prosecuting consensual sexx if a woman has a slight buzz? If you really have three sons, I guarantee you, that if they are not gay, they will be guilty of rape according to you. All three of your sons will deserve prison sentences according to your perspective.>

You know what lanie?

People with your perspective are dangerous. You want to protect women so much, you are willing imprison every normal, healthy, man with a libido.

Can you imagine how powerful a woman would be in your world? She could doll herself up, go to a bar, have one glass of wine, pick up on your son, then have him arrested.

So much for a free society. So much for woman and personal responsibility. So much for common sense, fairness, and justice.

By your definition I have raped many, many women over the years, and they liked it ... well ... most of 'em anyway ... can't please 'em all.

[erasmus111]

by Skirt-Lifter November 10, 2009 1:55 PM EST
"By your definition I have raped many, many women over the years..."


What I am kinda coming away with here, is that men are taking chances having sex with a woman when she has been drinking. Men are leaving themselves open to being accused of rape. Most women wouldn't do that, but there are some that would use that for an excuse that they didn't know what they were doing.

"Men...You need to keep in mind that a woman with any alcohol in her system cannot give informed consent and is considered to be rendered incapable of giving consent."

If this is the law in this person's state, I wouldn't be going near a woman that had anything to drink (in public, with witnesses), unless you know her REAL well.

Woman that falsely accuse men of rape should have an automatic jail sentence. This makes it so bad for the women that are actually raped.

[erasmus111]

"So much for a free society. So much for woman and personal responsibility. So much for common sense, fairness, and justice."

The sad thing is that we are starting to see less and less common sense, fairness, and justice. Our "society" is in sad shape.

[erasmus111]

"Our 'society' is in sad shape."


Oops. I don't know what the hell I was thinking when I said that. I meant YOUR society. : ) Everything here is just hunkey dorey.

[culturechang]

I live in KS too...all my life and I dont see rape taken lightly at all in KS.

And we cannot send every man to jail who had consenual sex with a partially intoxicated woman. That may be the law in KS because all sex is rape in KS, but that is not reasonable. Just because politicians were too weak to stand up to unreasonable legislation does not mean police and prosucutors will frame every man that you dont like.

You need to get over the idea that all sex is rape.

[bambiduff]

I think that lanie3 is a flippin hero, I was raped and the police told me that they talked to the guy and he said I consented to it, wow, that is some awesome investative work there. Not only did he rape me but he drugged me as well. I just wonder if Iowa laws are similar to Kansas law. And for the rum dums that are saying that they have raped like skirt lifter, your an idoit, what kind of name is that, you don't even think about. I hope you have a daughter and lets see if you think any differently. This is a sad world that we live in when these crimes go un punished who gives men the right to just take whatever they want I am revictimized by the system daily and when I seen this last night it just crushed me, they say you can stop the next rape by reporting. ha, look what happened in my case nothing. I refuse to just let this go with out a fight. justice will be served.

[culturechang]

I haved live in KS all my life. I dont see rape taken lightly here at all...when thier is a serious case of it. If it were taken lightly, then why is the law so heavily rigged against alcohol and sex as you claim?

KS re-built thier sex laws in 2006 making nearly all sex rape. This was done out of a radical conservative agenda to make all sex illegal outside marriage....and to marry the sex laws with an extension of prohibition.

What a place women have come to in the quest for independence that they cannot have a drink and take responsibility for thier own actions. The stronger they seek to be, the weaker they because with skewed laws like this.

Did you know that, in the new KS law, statutory rape of a minor and child porn are excusable in case where the victim is married to the accused? The new KS law of 2006 is a blast from the 19th century.

Police and prosecutors dont charge because it is not reasonble to send every man to prison for life just because you decide that you dont like him.....the next day.

Enough of the feminist "all sex is rape" agenda!!

[erasmus111]

by culturechang November 10, 2009 3:22 PM EST
And we cannot send every man to jail who had consenual sex with a partially intoxicated woman.

I don't think anyone is trying to send EVERY man to jail for having "consensual" sex with a partially or completely intoxicated woman. There may be the odd woman who drinks and then has "consensual" sex with a man, who later changes her mind and uses the drinking as an excuse to charge him with rape.

That's the problem. You have no way of knowing whether you have hooked up with a lunatic that is capable of doing that. Better to be safe than sorry, I'd say.

That law isn't there just to help the women, it's there to save men from certain women that could cause them trouble. There are some nasty, vindictive women out there.

[angie_iowa08]

go lanie! Law in Iowa is (or at least was in 2005 when i was told this) if the blood alcohol level is above 1%, than it is considered rape cuz the victim obviously has impaired judgement at this point.. but the law enforcement in Iowa don't abide by this either.

[runsfstpony]

I would like to add a couple of stories here. I was raped in 1987 by a boy in school. I had not gone to this school for very long. I reported the rape and found out later that the DA's office refused to press charges because I had known this boy. I only knew him for a few weeks and only by passing him in the halls. I recently learned that he did end up in prison after numerous rapes had happened and that one of the females that he raped was beat to almost death. I was shocked to hear that his total victims was in the 40 numbers. Soon after the rape happened to me and was told that there would be nothing done, I left the state entirely.
My daughter was violated when she was about 5 years old. The District Attorney (DA) did press charges. The perpertrator was sentenced to prison. This act has been with my daughter most all her life. Recently she was raped by a person she used to date. She reported this. She went through all the investigation, the rape kit,and is still in counseling. The DA decided that since the two were once high school sweethearts that they could not get a jury to hear the case and therefore would not press charges. Now the boy wants to press charges against my daughter for falsely reporting to the police and would like to see her go to prison.
I lost my faith in the judicial system many years ago. I asked questions to many on why 90% of all women who have been raped cannot tell their story nor will they be likely to report it. I was not really shocked at many of the answers that I got. Number 1 reason: I knew the person that raped me and know that the person will go free because the officials that handle the case will not prosicute.
Now I would like to know how many more will be raped and when America will wake up and take justice against the perpertrators. I know that if a child is raped or violated that the case is dealt with but what about teens and adults?

[ajapierce]

Personally speaking, no one should be raped at all. And with that said, these articles should not be just focusing on Woman being raped, they should focus on Men and yes Pets & Animals that are raped. That's right you heard me even animals.

The only thing that i have to say in defense of men that are charged with being raped is that they should always take the route of walk away and don't do anything. No matter how skimpy the clothes are on a girl, if she's no handing you the keys to her home, hotel room and saying to you straight up "Let's have sex" without any drinking involved then leave it alone.

Girls, you need to stop the ******** of i'm a strong women, and then hang out with guys who could easily over power you, drunk or not. Unless you can lift 300 pounds of weight then i would even out the numbers at social events with more of you girlfriends there, especially the ones you trust the most.

I will say this though, this society teaches mostly woman that sex sells, and to be honest, i hate watching TV, looking at ad's anymore, about 75% of them all contain hot looking woman selling something. It's disgusting and sets up a bad attitude for guys and girls to go along with.

[abyss2hope]

ajapierce, I disagree with your statement to girls. I'm sure you have been around men who could overpower you yet there is no expectation that your decision to be around stronger men is what must be criticized when talking about crimes of violence. The problem is not men's strength or women being around physically strong men, the problem is men who use their strength to commit sex crimes.

[LittleMissr19]

I strongly disagree with you. I was molested and an ex-boyfriend attempted to rape me. I may get jumpy around strange men, but I surround myself with guys I know I can trust beyond all reasonable doubt. And these aren't weak little saplings, either. These are just big, healthy boys who've been raised right, with a sense of honor and compassion, who view me as a friend and sister and look out for me accordingly. What girls need to remember is to never allow yourself to be caught alone without a friend (male or female) by someone you don't know or trust, never take ANY unwelcome sexual advances lightly, never leave your drink unattended and even watch the bartender closely while s/he makes it and always have at least one person you trust around who isn't going to be drunk (you should anyway. DD). Being raped has nothing to do with hanging out with the opposite sex, but everything to do with looking after yourself and your friends and making sure they do the same.